My imediate reaction to this topic was to create these o.o
<- would have been better with Mattbot but I couldn't find a pic
And my own siding:
...yeah, I'm a silly puppy.
I consider inducing Box to complain to the staff to be interfering with the board by bringing ridicuous issues to the staff. And even if you don't, it is at least PM harassment and use of your powers to do so, both of which can be used to ban in extreme circumstances, or count towards a ban otherwise.
Flaming people in the chat is what I saw you doing right after you quit. However, I don't remember exact names. This mkes it not enough for a ban, but it can count towards it to a small degree.
Banjumping and hijacking Weresheep's account has by far the most evidence. The only defense I can see is to accuse Nuchtos of lying. Some people say that if it's a case of one person vs. another person, picking one to believe is wrong. I disagree, because I can't believe Nuchtos would frame you. Nuchtos would also have to either be the person who logged in as were, or working with them, in order to frame you. So the evidence goes beyond just what Nuchtos said. Nuchtos could only log in as Weresheep with the help of Weresheep or a person with SQL access. You have made no defense besides denying it and saying that it's only the word of Nuchtos, and as I have pointed out, it is more. Even if I ignore that Nuchtos has no motive to frame you and I trust him, while you brag about being an accomplished liar, his story is more credible. However, your denials have the style of the closest thing to sincerity I've heard from you, so you're either very good at acting or there is some bizarre explanation that could not be called reasonable doubt. I'm going to be easy on you on this charge in case you did not do it, but even so, this alone is enough for a ban.
Box accused you of a campaign to divide the MoFo. We have no solid proof of this, but you were at least trying to do so with Box, and you used your staff powers to artificially create a conflict between Box and me, the person who coincidentally had the ability to shoot down any accusations he made at you (some of which, such as sharing people's PMs, were true). Your responses to my accusations by telling Lighty, coincidentally the person with the power to decide the access to the server, that I was crazy, don't win you points either.
You entered the server and deleted group work. Even you admitted to me that it would have been better to just request that we take your work off the server. The templates you deleted had been heavily modified by you, but they still contained original work of others and you should have done this in a graceful manner rather than abusing your powers to take them off. I do respect your right to ownership and haven't pushed you on this too much, and even agreed to remove code in the reuploaded templates that you identify as yours, but the fact is that you deleted things that weren't exclusively yours.
You shared PMs quite a lot. I let this slide sometimes but apparently the scope was much greater than I knew.
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My imediate reaction to this topic was to create these o.o
Hm. I think this only cements the fact that no one can really tell whether Acrio can ever be taken seriously. An enviornment of his own making, I might add, and a serious character flaw that has no place among those with authority. Hence the dilemma.
Crimmy, will you marry me? :3
Look I have a sig for the first time in like... a year.
~Tobe
Yay! Nn
And for the first time in ages I have a sig I don't automatically turn off on most posts =3
Paragraphs 1 and 4 are related. I never spoke to Box in PM. I used Y!M.
I've already spoken about "flaming".
It's obvious I can't prove to you that I didn't hack into Weresheep's account, and at this point I don't care.
I deleted work which was compeltely my own and one work which was a complete reworking from scratch to immitate a template Lighty had created. Ask Lighthead yourself; he does not give a damn. Also, I never said that it would have been wiser to ask you, because it is my belief to this end that ntohign would have been done. I know the PM you are reffering to, but you must have misunderstood me.
I've shared plenty of PMs with my friends. Lee shared them with Astrid. THS now shares them with Trudi. Astrid now shares them with Lee. This is only what I know of, and persuing it stupid because it something that will always happen. For the record, I've also given snippits of Staff Room knowledge out before in what I believed to be an urgent and justifiable manner. I once warned Geogwe to lay off of Rico because I was afraid he might have his ISP contaced. However, Dirk has also shared info in a similar manner, and so has Cookirini, without permission, in this very topic. For the same reason I think gossiping/flaming to the degree I've done it is a silly reason to ban me, I also believe this is, because both problems are across the board.
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However, Dirk has also shared info in a similar manner, and so has Cookirini, without permission, in this very topic.
Oh noes, ban meeeeeeeeee
I did not have adequate permission to copy that line of text and I ought to be punished. I propose a fifteen-minute ban and a stern talking-to. Admins, get on it!
We now return you to your regularly scheduled desperately-grasping-at-straws defense, already in progress.
I'm not trying to drag you down with me, I'm trying to grab your body and float with you.
I find it funny how Crims makes his post, with the Civil War images, then in Vec's very next post we have "Box accused you of a campaign to divide the MoFo."
it's happening anyway
(This is the only relvant comment I have at this point in thime)
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I'm not trying to drag you down with me, I'm trying to grab your body and float with you.
And I'm trying to show you that I am not your personal flotation device. I'm actually serious about giving me a very brief ban.
Edit: Ignore. I'm not going to make a Marvel comic-related joke if it gets me in trouble.
kk. I'll swim over to someone else while you're deflated for 15 minutes.
However, Dirk has also shared info in a similar manner, and so has Cookirini, without permission, in this very topic.
Oh, boo-hoo. Cry me a river.
Honestly, who do you think the staff - and other forumers - is angrier at right now? I doubt its me, because frankly, people wanted to know why you were being banned, and I showed pieces of the evidence (that, I might add, is the tip of the iceberg). You have a problem with getting what you asked for, tough. You're going to take a nice, long vacation soon and there is nothing you can do about it.
As for me, unlike you, I'm not going to pull this bull you're pulling right now. Yes, I did it without permission, but it should be obvious why I did it. Quite frankly, if I have to be punished, so be it. I did what I had to do to expose you for the sham you are, because if I didn't, people were still going to be convinced you were being "framed".
I don't care who people are angry at. Also, your evidence has done nothing more than reinforce what it is I've already said. o.o
I hope this post doesn't come across as pointless, and I'd appreciate it being read.
Vec, about this flaming you (and so many others) speak of. I don't know if you noticed, but half the chat does the exact same thing as Acrio did - teasing people behind their backs, etc. - without any repurcussions. Why don't you just divide the chat regs into two groups, and give each of the members of one group an official warning along with Acrio?
Hey, I have an even better idea. Why don't you and the rest of the staff get your @#%$ together and unanimously agree on a standard definition of "flaming"? As of now, no one is completely sure - for example, Rico will chatban people for the most trivial insults, while HSW does nothing. Until you can all agree on a final rule on how to behave that's fair for everyone here, I don't see why this should count towards anything. Not even a warning.
Next. The elusive Weresheep incident. I think we've gone over this a million times, and I'm doubtful that you'll ever actually get it. Your only "decisive proof" is an eyewitness, who has no screenshots of whatever happened. Trustworthy as Nuch is, have you ever known Acrio to vehemently deny serious accusations that he knows are true? Since you've heard all that already, I'll simplify it - do you know of the concept of "innocent until proven guilty"? He hasn't been proven guilty. "Strong evidence" is not proof.
But of course, you don't have to follow the rules of a court of law. It's your forum. I can only hope you'll have the sense to let a person who cannot be proven guilty off the hook, instead of appealing to the majority who want someone banned.
I'm not going to talk about the Weresheep debacle anymore, since apparently Acrio doesn't care. I hope he won't mind me mentioning it in the first place.
The other crap (the Box incident, the content eradication) has already been explained by him quite well, I think. I don't see why they should be discussed anymore.
Before anyone accuses Deck of being "brainwashed" as I'm accustomed to seeing be done, note that I don't even talk to him.
Could I make a brief non-partisan request as non-staff or mod person that these debates be taken out of the public eye, and that a decision be made one way or the other. I think there's a reason why you normally discuss banning someone in the staff forum, and that's so that 60+ page topics like this don't develop.
I'm sorry, but I just see this discussion going on forever with no end. I'd really rather see it go on either somewhere where it won't continue to divide the forum, or that a final decision just be made so everyone can get on with their lives and live with the results one way or another.
If I'm speaking out of turn, I apologize, but I just learned of this thread about half an hour ago, and I don't think it's a healthy thing for anyone involved.
This was going on in the staff forum initially - it was only stuck in here because Acrio was removed from the forum halfway through his own plight. Personally, despite the controversy caused, I feel it's better in the public eye - even though there are things happening behind the scenes still.
As for Deck, I don't think there's much point bothering any more. Trust me on this, I don't know whether it's against the law of the land (which is, of course, not a courtroom) to say this, but the decision is nearly reached, it seems. There's not much can be done at this point, not that I encourage giving in before, during or after the announcement is done.
For the record, regardless of my recent staff position, you could probably take a stab in the dark on which side I'm on and this is as much about personal opinion as it is duty.
I started this topic in the EVC, the area for interaction between Members and Staff, because I don't want to be banned and don't think I should be. o.o I was discussing this in the Staff Forum, however my access was revoked mid-way.
I realize your request is not to me, as I am not staff, however I am supplying the reason this thread exists.
One question. Are you calling Nuch a liar, Deck?
Oh, and I ban when someone gets three warnings against them. Generally when it was Geo and Bat the last one would be a series of catty, trivial, disrespectful remarks to people.
And I would like to say I'm impressed with Bat's changes recently.
~Tobe
I'd like to stop Deck from answering that question. There's no reason for him to make accusations against any user or staff member in here like that, especially when he's made his intent clear in the post. His point was that nothing can be proved either way, and that there are many possibilities.
I know you already expressed your opinion that trust is not something you care about Acrio, but trust in the moderators is something thats serious to me. If Deck has reason to think Nuch is lieing I wanna know why.
~Tobe
The way you phrased it had me thinking you were after name-calling games. If that's not the case, and there's actually a point, I have no problem.
If we insist on acting as though this were a court case (which it isn't) instead of a freaking ridiculous fiasco on an internet forum (which it is), then it is probably closer to a civil case than a criminal case.
And so, Deck, I have a question of my own. Do you have any idea what "innocent until proven guilty" means in the context of civil law?
Spoilers (Select To Read): not much.
Deck cited that this is not a courtcase.
Ungh, so much hostility.
Not to be severely cliche or whatever, but why can't we all just get along? If somebody did a "no-no", just give them a slap on the wrist or punish them or whatever! I don't think ridiculous long topics about "WAT I DID??" and "I HAT U U DID DIS" need to be made. Then this whole "MoFo Civil War" crap, and people choosing sides and whatnot? That's not good! All choosing sides does is create more anger and hostility. ='(
So please.
Enough of this:
And more of this:
Please? Can you do it for me? Or at least for cute puppies?
Please?
I remember making a post exactly like that before about Eon.
However he did not create the topic for the same reason I did, or at all. >=. I want a chance to combat these accusations on me, damnit.
I choose the confused, indifferent side. o.o
You already stated you don't want your work to be associated with us. Why are you still here?
~Tobe
Ha ha
Eh, I changed my mind by rewording the joke to something more neutral.
No answer? I would answer.
~Tobe
Scratch this message!
Saffronic has pointed out why I'm going to decide now (though my previous post was actually the "decide," and I was just giving Acrio a chance to explain himself). This nonsense has been going on for 2 days. I told TR last nght that I wasn't going to go lawyery unless I was pushed.
Again people are going with the "nobody around to be flamed" defense. I told you, it was people in the room. To continue that argument is pointless.
I'm yet again hearing that it is Nuchtos word vs. Acrio. I have already explained that it is not. Reread my post to see why, even ignoring their reputations, Nuchtos lying is ridiculous because he would need to do almost impossible things to frame Acrio. Don't give me any "eyewitness" crap, because I know such testimony is unreliable, but when that witness takes a copy of the scene, no matter how easily faked, it shows that they are either truthful or not. And when the possibility of them faking it requires them to put on a huge public scene with the help of a very small list of unlikely possible accomplices, that is very strong proof. This is way beyond reasonable doubt, which is not even a standard that needs to be met (nice point with the civil suit Dirk).
He deleted MY additions to those templates too, and I do care even if Lighty doesn't. Acrio responded to this with "oh big deal a few small codes," even though A LOT of work has to go into putting up what was there before Acrio. That's called an excuse. Much like many of the responses to things other than the Weresheep incident are technicalities or excuses or claims that it's not a big deal.
If there really is some bizarre thing that happened and Acrio is innocent of the Weresheep incident (he made the ziggledex and even he can't come up with any explanation of why it would happen), then we must ignore technicalities such as whatever legal system you the reader think I must be held to, which probably includes the idea that overwhelming evidence should mean something, and consider the other charges more seriously. He absolutely did something ban-worthy, and if it's not the Weresheep incident that has been proven to me (even though I have taken Acrio's denials seriously), then he certainly did enough in a non-legal sense to qualify for it.
Now responses to this should probably go to my PM. I'm more supportive of dissent than anybody and I'm not going to get nasty if you disagree with me. However I want public drama kept down and will close this topic if it gets petty towards ANY point of view. That means no shots at Acrio either.
Acrio, nooo!
