This is a Sonic forum. And every day, kids are coming here and looking at Sonic running around in his birthday suit. And now Rico has said that nudity is no longer allowed in the RP Guild. He just made that up.
He got all hung up over my character breastfeeding her newborn baby, and because he was a Mod he got at me about it.
I know what PG-13 means, in the UK anyway, and there's very few people who adhere to it in the RP Guild.
I'd prefer restrictions on description of sexual acts to be left up to our good judgement. Ignore what my signature says. I have got good judgement, and I don't break rules on purpose, whatever some people might think.
Hello, Harley, and thank you for posting your complaint in the appropriate forum. The complaint as it stands is you believe that a scene involving a female breastfeeding in public is not contrary to our guidelines.
Your other complaint is that a moderator, myself, has asked you to tone such images as nudity violates they "something a ten year old shouldn't see" rule. And you believe contrary.
Also you believe many RPers are not abiding by this rule.
Is this an accurate depiction of the current scenerio for the administrators? If not please correct the above.
My thoughts are,
Nudity was never allowed in the RP guild as far as anatomically correct characters goes and it will never be. It is in the general board rules (AKA the 10 ten year old rule), and I personally would think it was be a common sense rule on an all ages board.
If there are other infractions such as this Harley should report them to Cj, Tergonaut, or myself instead of saving them for situations like this.
-Rico Underwood
I think so...
Look, when you sign up to Ezboard, there's a box you tick, and it says that you're 13 or older. Therefore the board doesn't have to be suitable for 10 year olds, it has to be suitable for 13 year olds.
And I think that when you say nudity, you mean "Sexual connotations". There's a difference. Which is all well and good. Sonic's nude. Sally has breasts. Quite a few of the male Original RP characters wander around in nothing but trainers and gloves.
But breastfeeding has no sexual connotations. Except to weirdos who love their mothers and people who have never seen it.
I RPed Breech breastfeeding because it was supposed to show a mother's love towards her child. It was supposed to give the reader a warm fuzzy feeling inside (Awww, Breech loves her baby), not arouse them.
You didn't complain this loudly in Endangered when Breech was repeatedly raped. Why are you making a big deal of it now? And yes, it is you who is making a big deal of it, I'm just taking it to a different forum. If you don't stand up for your rights, you lose them.
Maybe I should turn off my signature for now.
The problem with the "everybody has to be 13 to register" idea, Harley, is that A) underage peeps can get accounts with a parent's permission (AFAIK) and B) even if they can't, nothing is preventing them from visiting our forums.
Anyway, I really don't see the problem with nudity in the RP place, as long as it doesn't go way over the line. I mean, I could start an RP right now and declare that every last person would have to be naked just because... though I would also mention that even still it would be treated as if everyone was clothed (so that whole nudity thing is a very, very minor note). I'm not GOING to start this RP, obviously, but I wouldn't exactly be against it. Rape and sex is pushing it. Breast-feeding would be okay if it wasn't explicit. And, obviously, images of any of this are strictly prohibited.
But then, I'm not the RP mod. At this point I'd say it's their opinions that matter more than mine.
Observe the offending sentences:
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'Dinah' opened a small mouth very wide and started to cry. Breech just smiled again, and started breastfeeding.
Any sexual connotations there? Anything at all?
I don't associate people's personalities with what they put in their signature, so maybe they should stop doing it with me.
Wow. I hardly know where to begin.
Harley, the argument about naked animals is kinda silly. First, because they're cartoon characters. Second, even in RPs that are "realistic," we generally assume that there's enough fur in place on most of the furry characters that it effectively hides private parts. Thirdly, why do you feel we need to relax the standards when you've roleplayed just fine without crossing the standards before?
And fighting for your rights? This is a privately-owned board. Therefore, the only rights are the ones given to you by the rules.
As for that particular quote, it's still pushing limits. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but you edited the original post that quote came from, didn't you? In which case, the original quote may have been more than that. I don't want to go too far out on a limb on this one since I didn't see the original post, but Rico's reaction is a warning bell right there.
For the record, the post that quote was from was edited 2 minutes after it was first posted, 5 minutes before Rico posted (7 minutes if you're counting Harley's original post). That seems too tricky of a time-span for the whole going back in and editing it thing to have happened. I think it's safe to believe that part of Harley's post was always the same.
EDIT: I don't know why I posted that. For some reason I felt I had to defend myself. I don't.
The skinny of it was... Harley,
~Rico
Anybody who knows me knows I edit most of my posts. Rico's reaction was a reaction to my edited post. I'm not so petty as to edit my post so that I'm in the right.
I never said you needed to relax the standards further. I said that Admins and Mods have let me (and others) get away with worse, so why are they protesting now? I also said that the rules on RPing are confusing.
This always happens when I complain. ALWAYS. I always get eaten up. If that's what "You've just been moderated" means, then Rico is absolutely right.
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I know what PG-13 means, in the UK anyway, and there's very few people who adhere to it in the RP Guild.
It's PG you need to concern yourself with. To be honest, I still don't understand the general "RP Guild is less strict than the rest of the board" stuff that many keep saying. PG-13 is actually only supposed to be dealing with certain topics that technically shouldn't be allowed (i.e. certain sex-related topics that occassionally appear) on the board, not the stuff you're supposed to be allowed to get away with.
Next thing to concern yourself with, is the board follows U.S. guidelines for ratings not the U.K., which generally translates into more allowed violence and less allowed sexually seen/described things.
If very few are truly following it, then it just means maybe we need more people to watch the Guild. **shrugs**
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I'd prefer restrictions on description of sexual acts to be left up to our good judgement.
Unfortunately, if that happened, then everyone would want everything left up to their judgment. That won't work.
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You didn't complain this loudly in Endangered when Breech was repeatedly raped. Why are you making a big deal of it now?
I would think it would either depend on "how" she was raped and even possibly "when" it happened in terms of ever changing enforcement that at times happens whenever myself, Vec, or Sam are clued into stuff that none of us noticed/saw going on. I do remember someone posting about a rape scene earlier this year back (but I forget who and I doubt the thread is still in staff). I remember that the way it was done it was fine, mainly because you could read the scene as being just a beating. You didn't have to see it as a rape. As a result, it was fine.
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'Dinah' opened a small mouth very wide and started to cry. Breech just smiled again, and started breastfeeding.
Unfortunately for you, that's going to be rated over the board based on the U.S. It might pass in the U.K., but not in this country. That's stuff that you're not allowed (though some schools ignore it) to see in public school because a full breast is uncovered. Remember the "uproar" in the U.S. over Janet Jackson in the Super Bowl a couple years ago? That's should be your clue.
I think all other points were handled well enough by others.
The trouble herein lies in the fact that I am British, whether you like it or not, and that is not going to change. I'm not going to suddenly follow US ideals, and not just because I don't want to, but also because I can't. I wasn't brought up that way. Are you going to get at me for following a different rating system, one in which violence is more contraversial than sex?
Sure you could see it as a beating - if you were totally naive to sex. Not to mention Froggy's character James said that she was raped.
And another thing about being British - I don't give a toss about American news, or for that matter Janet Jackson. You tell me how I'm supposed to remeber what happened a few years ago at a Super Bowl in America.
Because either the co-webs are from the US, ezboard is based in the US, or whatever, means that the board is under US law.
We have to put up with it whether we like it or not. We have to abide by it regardless of our own nationality.
Well maybe if your rules on content were a little clearer than the words "It must be suitable for 13 year olds!" I'd be able to follow it.
Besides, this is the Internet. It doesn't follow any particular countrie's law.
No one is asking you to change. It's just telling you to realize that any complaints saying that it's valid in the U.K. don't mean anything here. This board is under U.S. guidelines and U.S. laws, which is also the main reason this board will always stay in the PG range as it's required by U.S. law as Sonic is a "kiddie" character. Websites that claim to be adult/mature (i.e. Sonic Cult) and have a splash page entrance warning about the adult/mature nature are legal. Sonic HQ is an all-ages site and the regulations on the board will follow it for the U.S. If you don't like that fact or can't handle that fact, then I can't help you.
If you can see it as a beating, then it'll be fine. You can't be expected to control what someone else calls it, just what you describe.
As for the Super Bowl thing, there were only a zillion topics complaining about the U.S. and the restrictions on sex when it happened and there are some every once in awhile anyway. The Janet Jackson thing was the best example I could come up with concerning the situation. She exposed her breast for less than a second and it caused fines for the TV stations broadcasting the Super Bowl, for fines to go up in the U.S. for indecency among lots of things. You've been here for years, so you should already be aware of the differences between the countries and used to dealing with them. If you're not, I can't help it but don't be surprised when someone tells you that you're doing something that you're not supposed to do. I still find it surprising that you aren't aware of the differences considering you're usually making comments about how "conservative" the U.S. is in many topics.
Edit:
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Besides, this is the Internet. It doesn't follow any particular countrie's law.
If you don't know that you are required to follow the laws of the country that your website is located, you are sadly mistaken. It's U.S. law that allowed Sega to acquire a domain name from a Sonic fan site years ago. It's U.S. law that allows copyright holders to prevent fansites from existing if the copyright holder chooses. I think it was Garfield that was affected at one point. The Internet doesn't have any universal laws, but you do have to follow the laws of your own country. This board is run by people in the U.S. and currently hosted in the U.S. (the hosting being the key), so it will follow U.S. laws. This has always been assumed to be general knowledge.
Can't you just change the rules to say "If the Archie comics can show it, you can show it here, and pay attention to the bloody censors"? I mean, Archie's for kids, right? We could work up from there.
I've acquired quite a large collection of Archie comics in quite a short space of time, so I can use them for reference.
Not necessary, particularly since not everyone reads/gets Archie comics and that would cause other issues. If using Archie comics will help you, then by all means use it.
Yeah, but likewise not everyone gets US newspapers or news reports, so that doesn't work either.
I'm still sick of being told that breastfeeding is pornographic and rape isn't though. At least, that's how I feel you guys are putting it.
Harley, let me put it this way: usually if something happens "on-screen," like what happened in your post, it will generally be rated differently than if it happened "off-screen." Since the breast feeding was "on-screen," that's why it got a worse reaction than a lot of this rape business, which as far as I'm aware was done more-or-less "off-screen."
Basically, the less detailed and explicit the description, the better. Having a character standing naked in the shower is one thing and has been done successfully without complaint, while describing how that character is caressing their curvaceous body while in the shower is crossing the line. I mean, you might have been able to do the breast-feeding thing if you just added a cloth or towel or shirt or something that could be used to make that "off-screen."
And I would love a better standard for sex control on the board, but honestly most other rule methods either are too lenient or too restrictive. If you had some ideas about what we could do to make things more specific, we'd be glad to hear it.
I doubt Harley and Froggy hijacking Endangered, on several cases, is relevant and it's certainly not the issue here.
However, her repeataive rapes, as annoying, repelling and utterly stupid as they were; were plot points. They could be grudgingly allowed to let slide for character development reasons, and as Terg said, it was off screen, oh and the fact that no one bothered to read your posts because they had nothing to do with anything else going on 
There was absoloutely no need for the breastfeeding at all, it reads like a random excuse to get Breech's breasts out for a few seconds, if you wanted to show loving care, usually rocking a baby in your arms would be more than caring enough.
So, two things stand:
1. It was "on-screen"
2. It was needless, so I don't know why you even put it there, nor do I see any reason why you're being such a drama queen about being asked not to do such things.
It's not like you was told off, anyway. You was just asked politely to keep your breasts off the camera. Why make an issue out of it?
You make a good point, Craig, in that the whole breastfeeding thing is unneeded. She should have been too tired out, anyway...
But still, I think all of you are making too big a deal out of this. All she said was that her character did it, no description involved. None. Nadda. Zip. That alone should make it a non-issue. Now if she went into great detail about the act, well then I could see the problem.
Its not like its some bizzare, kinky sex act, either...its just a mother feeding a baby. Completely harmless, and something that an awful lot of human beings experiece at a very young age. Sheesh. 
1. The alleged "rape" scene was done without my permission and she DID push that one to far as well, I knew something like this would happen and let it go because I got no complaints.
2. The "birth" scene was done WITH my permission and was done in accordance with what I told her.
3. And people seem to be confused when I say the rules are more lax in guild. That does not mean the Forum Rules do not apply, they very much apply. However one thing is I have said I will not moderate language unless it is bypassing the filter. I let the filter handle it and only if I get a legitament complaint will I ask an admin to add a word to the filter.
What Craig said is right, Cooki. This thread is for something specific, not Harley's general RPing habits.
I find it odd it was suggested that Harley should have 'added a cloth' or something to make it more acceptable. She never mentioned anything past the act of breastfeeding. For all we know and are completely free to imagaine (as I even did) she could have been covered. She didnt go into explicit detail so to upset anyone with it, so I don't think she would have to have gone into detail in the opposite more 'acceptable' direction either. It was neutral and up to the person reading it how it was pictured and if 'you can't control what other people call it, just how you describe it' then I'm confused. (Of course all this could be pointless as I don't know if even covered it gets by silly America's rules.)
P.S. I'm not expecting to get anywhere with this, I plan on being quickly answered with something that explains my question then skipping away.
P.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.etc. I'm not questioning Rico's judgement either. With the guidelines given to him, he was just doing his job.
P.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.etc. I want to see how many Ss I can get away with without spamming.
EDIT Also, if any more CookixHarley action is going to take place, take into private. Also, noone is getting chewed up or humiliated or whatever. o_O
I didn't suggest it, Acrio, I can't see who did.
All of you keep asking the same question (What is wrong with writing about nudity on an all ages board). Froggy, SH, Acrio, etc. It's been answered and its stupid to answer it again. If you want a novel on it, IM me. (AIM: Dis1fox4u or ricowrk) latter is work IM and it will take some time for me to answer based on my current workload.
Cookie, stop it, I know everyone is pissed about Serori's RP turning into the Breech and James Lemon Hour 
, but this is NOT the place for it.
Final Thought: All this because one person can't just say, "Didn't know, won't do it again."?
You must have misunderstood me. The general jist of my post is that I don't see why it's assumed she was naked to begin with.
edit Also, I meant this:
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I mean, you might have been able to do the breast-feeding thing if you just added a cloth or towel or shirt or something that could be used to make that "off-screen."
Didn't see that one before, thanks. And I never said nor anyone that I know of said she was naked, just topless. And man if it sparks THIS much controversy maybe there SHOULD be a rule against anatomically correct nudity in the guild specifically.
And why does it feel like people are assuming by harley's standard ZOMG reaction that I overreacted here? Will you guys please to view the post in question and read my response. Tell me where I warned her. Tell me where I snarled at her. Hell, tell me where I was even serious. Sum this thread up!
THS found it for me *blow kiss*
~Rico
Hey, I already said, "Didn't know, won't do it again." In chat.
I'm not saying it again. Is it like I need to?
You guys all know I suck at getting sarcasm. I've said that before too.
Ok... so said that and dropped it? 
~Rico
Then what did you mean when...
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All of you keep asking the same question (What is wrong with writing about nudity on an all ages board).
*head explodes*
Wait, omigarsh is it over already?
Warning: Taking this off-topic is bad. Very, very, VERY bad. That is your only warning as I deleted everything that I considered not necessary.
**gives Rico some cookies** You're fine. 😉
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Yeah, but likewise not everyone gets US newspapers or news reports, so that doesn't work either.
This is called totally missing the points being made.
1) Rating systems that are used for TV and movies tell you specifically what is/isn't allowed for an extremely large audience. A specific comic does not. A comic may help a particular person, but that's an individual thing. Mentioning a news story, a cartoon, movie, etc. may help someone understand something.
2) At times I think people are under the crazy impression that the rules are written so that the particular person can understand them without ever having to think. BZZT. Wrong. The rules are written in a way to be a guide for most people, not everyone. There will be things that are clear for some that aren't for others. That's life. If anyone has a question, it's the person's responsibility to ask. Using "honey" to ask is always better than "vinegar."
Obviously, you were under a mistaken impression that U.K. stuff applies here, so that made you totally off from the get-go. You should know better now.
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I'm still sick of being told that breastfeeding is pornographic and rape isn't though. At least, that's how I feel you guys are putting it.
No one has called anything close to "porn." Exaggerations never help your case as it makes it look worse.
As mentioned earlier, if it's described as a beating and it isn't a described rape--and I would think you'd know the difference as it isn't difficult--then there probably wouldn't be anything wrong as long as the beating description isn't too severe. If someone decides to say later that "[insert name] was raped," they're not describing anything that would get YOU in trouble. They may or may not get themselves in trouble depending on how/when it is said, but that has no bearing on YOU.
And for the "question" that wouldn't die:
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But still, I think all of you are making too big a deal out of this. All she said was that her character did it, no description involved. None. Nadda. Zip. That alone should make it a non-issue. Now if she went into great detail about the act, well then I could see the problem.
Spoken like someone who doesn't know what PG means. You cannot mention on screen ANYTHING that means breasts or genitalia are exposed. When it comes to "furries," they're assumed to be covered UNLESS you have them doing something that obviously requires the exposure of breasts or genitalia. If you are, then you've crossed the line. It's very simple. You will not find anything that does just that on any PG movie, cartoon, etc. I don't care what you use as your own personal guide.
One would think the questions people have asked over the years about certain images and how things were allowed ONLY if certain body parts were covered either in clothing or with bars should make this even less of an issue.
IF she were in certain topics in Marble Garden or MF Central, there wouldn't be a problem as written. You could even possibly be detailed to an extent and there might not be a problem as long as it was on-topic. However, you can't do that in a RP at all. This is just one of zillions of examples why I have never understood why people think the RP Guild is "less strict" than the rest of the board. In terms of what is or isn't allowed, the RP Guild is the strictest part of the board.
Edit: Oh yes, and before someone even wastes time mentioning "language," remember that the censor for the RP Guild is the same as for the rest of the board. If the word is allowed in the RP Guild, then it's allowed anywhere else on the board. If it's not allowed someplace on the board, then it's not allowed in the RP Guild. I think it's quite simple. ;p
Rico's paying you, isn't he True Red? It says so in your Custom Title.
I thought I tried to end this topic. Then Lighthead changed the subject. Not me. Lighthead. Then it was locked. Then it was unlocked. I still get the feeling that important people are ganging up on me.
Breastfeeding is hardly an activity that is comparable to sex in terms of exposure.
Rico didn't complain before, because nobody else complained before. Nobody complained this time. So why's he complaining?
Why, Rico?
*Blinkblink*
Did I miss something? When, where did Rick complain? You started this topic, and you've been dragging it out.
Stop trying to get the last word and let it die!
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Warning: Taking this off-topic is bad. Very, very, VERY bad. That is your only warning as I deleted everything that I considered not necessary
That was a general warning, Harley and was in no way meant for you specifically.
Also, what True Red said still covers everything. It doesn't matter if breastfeeding is comparable to sex in exposure, it's against PG guidelines anyway so it's not allowed.
There's no loose ends to this. It has every reason to be over now.
*mutters* Woulda been days ago if people would just listen to me. :[
*proposes to Kat again*
~Rico
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Breastfeeding is hardly an activity that is comparable to sex in terms of exposure.
Neither is the act of urinating, but that isn't an activity you'd proudly display to a room full of people either.
Just because it isn't sexual, doesn't mean it's appropriate.
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Neither is the act of urinating, but that isn't an activity you'd proudly display to a room full of people either.
Depends on the person in question and the room full of people. 😛
Depends on the person in question and the room full of people. 😛
No, SH. No. XD
You guys are silly ^_^
Actually, no, Rico isn't paying me. I believe it was Craig that asked what the banning price was a long time ago. Payment must be entered into my bank account before the banning will be applied. Currently, the banning price is at 100 googolplex U.S. dollars. So far I haven't found any takers for some reason. Of course, there is a catch. There's always a catch. 😉
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There's no loose ends to this. It has every reason to be over now.
Indeed. But it isn't, and you can't entirely blame me because all these other people are pushing around and wanting to be the last to post. I'm not endorsing it in any way.
Shhh... Red! Don't tell HER that! What happened to client confidentiality...?
*Nervously giggles* ...can you kill a dead man?! *DIVES OUT OF WINDOW*
You're only going to land on Cooki again, you realize.
I didn't even mention you in my sentence Harley. o.O You have to stop assuming everything everyone says is directed at you. Nor do you need to defend yourself from it "just in case".
GAH SOMEONE KILL ME OR LOCK IT.
EDIT One more post and this thing will have 3 pages. Please. Someone. Save us all.
Please lock it. PLEASE.
Edit: hay look third page
I didn't know you wanted it to be a secret an all. Just blame it on your evil twin. Most of us have evil twins. ;D
