Go ahead and bad mouth the RPers as much as you want while you're in the main chat.

It's when you come into the RP Room to purposely annoy us it becomes a problem.

Look, we're not going over this again.

*Locked*

For future reference. When you 'quote' me, please do so correctly. Taking things out of context is so last year. My line of 'double standard' was in reply to Box when he alluded to SS using overpowered characters and not allowing anyone else too.

Basically what you are saying is you want the right to go into a room dedicated to their RP plots, and not RP, AND make dumbass comments about whatever person it's cool to hate this week. No, sorry, you can't. Why? Because it's immature. And because I say so. If your only purpose in that room is to 'comment', don't. If you don't want to RP, get the @#%$ outta the RP room.

~Toby

Okay.

I've read through the sections of the chat logs (including PMs) pertaining to the events alluded to in Saff's post. Speaking as someone who was not present during the event and feels no significant attachment to any of the factions involved, I must admit I thought this whole event was handled poorly by pretty much all parties involved.

I'll deal with the events and my complaints in roughly chronological order:

The first thing was Stairmaster's offense. This is about the only part I feel was handled admirably. Over in the main room people were criticising the nature of the main RP that goes on in the RP room, as is their right to do so. None of them, as far as I'm aware, had any intention of raising their concerns with the RPers while and RP was on. All of a sudden, Stairmaster wanders into the RP room and repeats Wonderbat's comments pretty much verbatim. Given the circumstances and what I know of Stair, it's a reasonable assumption he had no intention of starting a civil debate on the matter; rather, he just wanted a reaction. So he was removed swiftly and everyone carried on as though nothing had happened. Well done everyone. =) Except Stair. But whatever.

Fast forward a bit. The scene is once again the main chat. SX enters. Pregga greets with "Die, SX!" Now, I would believe Pregga if he said there was no malice in his greeting. 'Twas but a friendly jab. SX, quite understandbly, does not see this way and, quite reasonably, confronts Pregga about the matter. First mistake: Pregga, instead of apologising and saying he meant no harm, immediately goes on the defensive and calls SX a wanker. SX - again, quite reasonably - takes this up with an available moderator, namely Silver Shadow.

I have issues with how SS dealt with the matter and how Pregga and Wonder reacted. An excerpt:

Ash Fox moved at 11:53 pm
Ash Fox (11:54 pm): Alright people, I'd like your attention.
Saffron (11:54 pm): WINDOWS MOVIE MAKER.
Rabid Rodent (11:54 pm): http://sonic.wikispaces.com/Day+3 huuuuuuuuurr
Boston (11:54 pm): Hey Bryan
Pregga Zexas does something else.
Albino Rapper (11:54 pm): XD
Brother Wonderbat (11:54 pm): It is official, then: Jokes are banned
Kiorein eats a sandwich
Pregga Zexas (11:54 pm): OMFG what is that Rabid
Ash Fox (11:54 pm): A while back, I believe Rico posted a notice to the effect of leaving the RPers alone, yes?
Pregga Zexas (11:54 pm): Did someone bother the RPers
Pregga Zexas (11:54 pm): Let's beat them
Ash Fox (11:55 pm): Oh gee I wonder, Pregga.
Pregga Zexas (11:55 pm): Me, too! I haven't bothered them since like two days ago.
Pregga Zexas (11:55 pm): And I totally apologized.
Brother Wonderbat (11:55 pm): Mirth!?
Ash Fox (11:55 pm): Enough of the bull. I'm going to deal with this, alright? I will happily ban anyone who keeps up this crap.
Pregga Zexas (11:55 pm): So what might stir up such an entrance as yours
Pregga Zexas (11:55 pm): What crap?
Pregga Zexas (11:55 pm): Seriously.
Saffron (11:55 pm): Whoa Mr Fox
Ash Fox (11:55 pm): Pregga, playing dumb isn't even funny.
Brother Wonderbat (11:55 pm): What is this poppycockery!?
Saffron (11:55 pm): What the f**k are you going on about
Ash Fox (11:56 pm): Bat, shut your trap.
Pregga Zexas (11:56 pm): which was in here, not in the RP room
Trezari has left at 11:56 pm
Trezari has entered at 11:56 pm
Ash Fox (11:56 pm): You too Zex.
Pregga Zexas (11:56 pm): my message didn't appear, I said "playing dumb about what, saying SX die"
Ash Fox (11:56 pm): It isn't funny, it isn't smart.
Pregga Zexas has left at 11:56 pm
Ash Fox (11:57 pm): If I so much as see a glimpse of any known perpetrators in there agin, I'll ban you on the spot. Are we all clear on this?
Rabid Rodent (11:57 pm): can I be the shady man in the corner with a fedora
Saffron (11:57 pm): ...
Saffron (11:57 pm): Dude what are you talking about
Saffron (11:57 pm): The thing with Stair?
Brother Wonderbat (11:57 pm): Innocent until proven guilty what :crazy:
Boston (11:57 pm): No
Boston (11:57 pm): He's saying we can't yell at RPer's who are too lazy to use the Direct Room login
Ash Fox (11:58 pm): Bat, take your attitude and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I'm not laughing.
Kiorein (11:58 pm): Could you stop, Ash?
Ash Fox (11:58 pm): And no Boston, you can't.
Brother Wonderbat (11:58 pm): Good, because I'm not joking
Saffron (11:58 pm): ...hah hah hah
Ash Fox (11:58 pm): Pardon me while I find you all a certain topic.
Saffron (11:58 pm): Wtf is this sh*t
Brother Wonderbat (11:58 pm): It's utterly ridiculous to ban a person for being in a particular room
Ash Fox (11:58 pm): http://p072.ezboard.com/fsonichqcommunityfrm11.showMessage?topicID=1704.topic
Saffron (11:59 pm): We don't need that
Ash Fox (11:59 pm): Believe it or not, that still appplies! Surprise!
Saffron (11:59 pm): We've all seen it
Saffron (11:59 pm): Its funny how you snap on people for showing attitude then go rght around and do the sam
Saffron (11:59 pm): Theres a word for it
Saffron (11:59 pm): Wait
Saffron (11:59 pm): I think I know it
Kiorein (11:59 pm): Hyopocrite?
Ash Fox (11:59 pm): Yes, I'm laughing my head off right now, seriously.
Saffron (12:00 am): Hippo...hypo... HYPOCRITE IS THAT IT
Boston (12:00 am): I know this probably isn't the right time to discuss it... but
Rabid Rodent (12:00 am): you must be a funny guy
Ash Fox (12:00 am): You've all been warned, and there are other staff here who can see me saying it.
Boston (12:00 am): I see it as a lack of curtosy [sp]
Brother Wonderbat (12:01 am): So it is perfectly acceptable for me to say
Saffron (12:01 am): Courteousy
Brother Wonderbat (12:01 am): Boston, die!
Saffron (12:01 am): I thinks
Albino Rapper (12:01 am): courtesy
Ash Fox (12:01 am): I'm past the point of caring, so don't bother trying my patience further.
Saffron (12:01 am): Eh
Brother Wonderbat (12:01 am): But notto anyone who happens to RP even when they're not in there
Boston (12:01 am): They come in, don't say hi or join in the converstation, and just leave
Brother Wonderbat (12:01 am): That's also called hypocrisy iirc
Ash Fox (12:01 am): I now return you to whatever you were doing.

To be honest, the more I think about it, the more minor my disagreement with SS's method becomes. My main beef is that he handled solely the general problem (which, to be honest, I haven't noticed of late but I'm not here when the main RPing happens so I will gladly retract that position if given sufficient evidence) without reference whatsoever to the specific incident. It didn't help that Pregga was being... well, his usual self. What he should have done was to say something along the lines of "Sorry, I didn't know SX would take it that seriously, I'll try to avoid it in future" and maybe this thing could have been over there and then. Wonderbat and Saff also acted poorly: they had a genuine complaint but presented it in a counter-productively confrontational fashion.

Nothing of note happens for a while other than a lengthy discussion in the main room on how well or not SS handled the incident. Nothing, that is, until SS returns just as Wonder is expressing his desire for peaceful co-existence of all MoFoers and presenting a novel but not unreasonable means towards this end. SS handles this extremely immaturely, in my mind:

Brother Wonderbat (12:28 am): I just want there to be peeeace
Brother Wonderbat (12:28 am): and coexisteeeence
SilverShadow (12:28 am): Boohoo. Should I call you the Wambulance?

Wonder calls SS out on the childishness of this response. Bickering ensues punctuated by similar displays immaturity on both sides of the debate, but it eventually subsides and everyone goes on with their lives. The end. Well, except when Bat went into the RP room to say "Die, SX!" and then left again. That was childish and uncalled for.

In summary: way to make the f**king Himalayas out of a molehill, guys. 😛 If I had to lay blame one sole person it would be Zex for kicking the whole thing off in the first place - and maybe SX for being too easily wound up - but from my point of view it seems just about everyone involved made mistakes that contributed to this non-issue turning into an hour's worth of drama.

Just my very tl;dr two cents.

Ah a log.

I would have simply said, "Pregga, leave SX alone or you'll be going on vacation."

I'm not so sure SS handled that badly, Nuch. Bat was being a prickish smartass as the log you quoted shows, SS was just a smart ass back to him. I don't expect him to take abuse like I do from these idiots, the board should not be a place thats makes the mods want to leave because we let people cause them grief.

SS's problem was that he tried to argue with them about it. You state the rule and leave. If they continue to cause issue, ban them.

I don't expect him to take abuse like I do from these idiots,

Get off your damned soapbox.

No. This forum is supposed to be a decent place to post.

~Tobe

MoFo: We know Drama.

Rico can flame as much as he wants because HE IS ABOVE THE LAW!

Sorry, Fuehrer =(. how dare i envoke equality? i'm ashamed of myself.

I personally feel it was a case of a mountain out of a molehill, and Vec himself has shared this sentiment (and in fact was the one to urge Nuch to post this)

Don't believe me? The evidence is right here.

Geo, Wonder, I know you want to share your views, but for now I recommend you stay out of this.

Acrio says this is not the time nor place. I shall adhere.

Just my two cents, unless Box told anyone else (I didn't tell anyone except him, IIRC), noone knows that I was honestly not aware that "Die, [person]" is apparently a standard greeting now.

As I explained to Box in PM several hours after this; I have not been in Main Chat much as of late because I am on vacation, an don't want to spend all day AND all night on the computer, while blowing my grandparents off. As such, I haven't been around to watch Pregga's normal behaviour.

Also, I have been feeling suddenly ill IRL, and I don't really care for ill wishes ATM. While it would probably have been best to simply go back to RPing, I PMed Pregga asking why he would greet someone that way - IIRC, "There's no reason to greet me like that."

And as for this whole double standard crap, the only thing I can think of is that while there's no rule about randomly talking in a chat room (It's a chat room, it's kinda what you're supposed to do,) there ARE rules on popping in for nonsense talking in the RP room, because it's an RP room and not a regular chat room, and doing such is akin to posting in RP guild threads without having any intent to join the RP. It's spamming and has been against the rules for quite some time.

To the few persons that have told me I've been acting outside the rules on this: I have done exactly what the official policy says to: Take it up with the individual, or with a Moderator.

On mod behaviour: C'mon, remember the last time you used the Wambulance line while officially moderating something? What does it help?

In fact, what does it help to be a smartass to a mod in the first place?

Hell, what does it help to spam the RP room?

This topic is a mess.

Issues Raised:

- Silver Shadow (and Rico's?) attitude toward moderation
- Double Standards Reguaring RPers
- Ambiguity reguarding flames

If people want to discuss the proper mannerisms of a mod while moderating, do so in private with the mod or create a proper topic for it. This would also be a cue for Vec to take mods aside in private if he has thoughts reguarding this.

There are no double standards as far as treatment toward RPing members and non-RPing members go. A mod who spends most of his time RPing will simply end up dealing with more RP matters and being more intertwined personally with other RPers. This leads to them becoming aware of their problems sooner and more frequently than other problems.

Members entering the RP Room on more occasions than they wish to view or RP is spam. It is the same rule for the main chat.

Pregga is an @#%$. I personally enjoy assholes and am one myself. I love it when Pregga tells me to die because I gigle iRL and I grow closer to him as a friend. I am of the belief Pregga meant no harm toward, SX. However, as previously stated, it is Pregga's responsibility to make sure SX knows the context of something as risky as what he said.

I was happy to see this locked as quickly as it was last night. I am disappointed coming here today and seeing what it has developed into. The personal confusion Saff had reguarding the issue has since been cleaned up rendering the first post in this topic pointless.

This topic does not seem like the proper place to fix-up these other "issues" either. All but one seem best kept in PM.

PS:

My own issue I'm raising: I'd like it to be made more clear that deterrants to moderation aren't tolerated. The lack of such clarity make Geo and Bat think the posts they are making in this topic are appropriate.

Personally, I think Ash had every right to be a smart ass back to them, especially when you really shouldn't smart off to a mod anyway.

EDIT: I just think its a bit pot kettle black to be a smart ass to someone, them be a smart ass back, and then whine. This post was also posted at the same time as acrio :O

Brother Wonderbat (12:28 am): I just want there to be peeeace
Brother Wonderbat (12:28 am): and coexisteeeence
SilverShadow (12:28 am): Boohoo. Should I call you the Wambulance?

I think it's only fair people realise that line wasn't directed at Wonderbat, it was directed at one of the other folks who was being a smartass at the time. If I had a copy of the log to hand I'd tell you who, but suffice it to say I was pretty much ignoring Wonder by this point so my line wasn't directed at him.

And as far as this whole issue goes, it really is making a mountain out of a molehill. As I said in my initial post, I'd rather avoid traipsing down this track again, as we've all been here before.

If anyone really feels a great urge to discuss this any further, PM or IM is the place to go. I'm going to lock this again like I already did, if any other Staff feel I'm being pre-emptive with it then they can go ahead and unlock it and let me know why, but as far as I'm concerned I'd say we're done here.