In this thread we get to talk about the characters who are clones of other characters (based on their design) in the comic. Don't be afraid, you know who they are!
This thread is also a split from the Dr. Finitevus thread, where this discussion originally began on page four:
p098.ezboard.com/fsonichq...61&stop=80
Now for my reply to True Red and Spectre:
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Compare Sergeant, Pravda, Gala-Na, Julie-Su, Enerjak, Knuckles, Thunderhawk, Lara-Le, Wynmacher, Finitevus and many other "named" echidnas in Archie and you'd find the same. It's even more obvious if you actually looked at the characters in the background drawn by Spaz or Galan or Valentino or even Allen. Some are fatter (Pravda & Wynmacher) and others thinner (particularly an unnamed echidna Vector was hitting on in one issue). Some have extremely distinct features (Thunderhawk, Sergeant, & Finitevus are obvious ones). However, just like human beings, they have "stock" features or else they couldn't be recognized as echidnas.
There are plenty of differences between characters that are based on the "original" one.
Basing a design off of another design is the problem. If the designs were truly distinct they would play with volumes and shapes to be specific instead of covering a model with props and other minuscule information. Props don't represent a personality and stock features make a character generic. The artist with its creative freedom, would do best caricaturing the features to make them unique. As I mentioned before the artist should make its own interpretations. The essence of cartoons is caricature, the essence of caricature is exaggeration. I am under the impression that Archie's designers aren't designers at all but craftsmen who are taught a trade and are only allowed to work within a formula. Either that or these decisions are made out of laziness.
For those arguing that they prefer personality over appearance, a unique design should serve a unique personality, should it not? The evil double is a plot device that has been done to death. When in search of unique personalities, observation from life is your best bet as opposed to making an observation that's already been done countless times in modern media.
JON GRAY IS A CLONE OF REV. JESSIE JACKSON!
The proof is GLARING! I mean, look, they're BOTH black!!!11
That aside you're being silly JoJo. "Same Base Design" we have a word for that, it's called artistic style. Any one artist will have similarities in how they draw a human, a fox, or a humanoid fox. Why? Because all humans and foxes are those similarities, we can assume a mesh of the two would have those similarities.
~Tobe
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"Same Base Design" we have a word for that, it's called artistic style. Any one artist will have similarities in how they draw a human, a fox, or a humanoid fox. Why? Because all humans and foxes are those similarities, we can assume a mesh of the two would have those similarities.
It's not their style because many artists have done the same thing and it doesn't make them unique. Doing the same drawings over again is generic, especially reusing the same elements from other characters. They may have similarities but it goes back to caricature and exaggeration, the only limit is the artist's imagination. If the artists had any creative freedom they would go back and come up with different interpretations of the subject matter and making them specific to a character. I don't believe Archie's artists are taking full advantage of this, at least not lately. This is what strengthens my theory that Archie's artists can only work within a craft.
You make "Archie's artists" sound like some kind of singular being. There's a huge range of style and talent among those individuals, so looking at them all together like that is silly. It's also silly to say they can only draw "within a craft" because many if not all of these artists work on a range of topics.
It also has less to do with "Archie's artists" because ultimately the visual style is based on that of the games - a rather simple style full of rounded shapes and bold colours. Tikal and her father are based on Knuckles' design. Amy was originally a pallette-swap of Sonic with bangs and an outfit. Sonic, Shadow and Silver all have the same basic features and body shape. Vanilla is just a taller Cream with more hair and a different dress. Even if you're going to continue this argument that the character designs are too much based on template, you can hardly blame it on the dirivative material.
You complain that the designs don't play with volume and shape despite having been given some examples otherwise. While it's not the majority, it does exist to a degree that still fits within the style. Look at Pravda's Buddha-belly. Look at Simon's sagging face. Lara-Le used to have total bags under her eyes. Even one of Archimedes' useless relatives had a distinctively square jaw. Since the artists have to adapt their own personal style into this particular style, there's still room for variation - depending on what the individual can and is willing to do.
Fine distinctive features don't particularily lend themselves to a simplistic style (especially with so many characters, so many people drawing them, and a deadline), but some still do what they can. This isn't the place for outlandish caricatures.
Excellent points, CCL. Originally, many of the characters that some fans see as "clones" just followed Sega's old policy of making a few alterations to an existing character design to create a new character. Whenever a new artist took over, the designs were already in place and there wasn't much point to changing them. The few exceptions to this are in the newer comics when old characters have needed some changes. Feist the Panda is a big example of this: from what I understand, you couldn't tell what he was originally, and it was only in more recent issues that he became identifiable.
Without Sega's character designs, Archie wouldn't have been able to make the comics-"clone" characters are just Archie's way of remaining true to those styles. It's true that many of the characters are based on the same template, but it's not Archie's fault-it's Sega's for not coming up with more varied appearances for members of the same species. Besides, the characters who are based on identical templates have variations, just as CCL's said. As I said in the Dr. Finitevus topic, Finitevus himself is an excellent example of this.
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Even one of Archimedes' useless relatives
XD
Don't get me wrong, Archie's artists are talented. I just feel that they are more capable of what's given to them.
While the source style does originate from Sega, I find it difficult to imagine any artistic growth when working with the same designs, especially when creating cloned characters. It's become so limited, it's practically become formula. It disappoints me when I see characters such as Scourge, Bernie, Nack's ex-henchmen, members of the Brotherhood, etc. who are such blatant rip-offs of other characters and have had little creative decision behind them. Although I understand that this is the way things are when you have a comic book adaptation of something that doesn't necessarily belong to a particular artist. I still stand by my belief that observation from life would still do well for creating new material, it certainly wouldn't hurt.
As for Finitevus, I'll admit that his design is becoming more specific in terms his muzzle, eye and eye brow shape. Although for the most part, I still see many recycled elements in his overall design.
As I said, you can only alter the design of an echidna so much before it is no longer an echidna. Really, the only things that Archie echidna's have in common are dreadlocks, muzzle and eye-shaped, at least that I've noticed.
You cannot tell me that Finitevus, Julie-Su, Xenin, and the majority of the Brotherhood and Dark Legion are clones of Knuckles.
i used to wonder about how they came up with all the wierd variations of the gardians in particular.
locke was just knuckles in a bathrobe and a silly beard at first.. but then again, in the archie comics most children are carbon copies of the relevent gendered parent, so there would have to be a resemblance. (i much prefer his tribal look now)
looking out across the sonic fandom you get all sorts of zany and interesting design concepts, but that seems to mostly be down to constant character re-designs and tweaking. the comic can't do that too much to existing characters, or else we'd all get horribly confused as to who is who.
oh, and what CCL said. oo *agree*
I don't see what the big deal is. They are funny comics with cartoon animals. Innovative character design for the entire cast isn't really a selling point.
Mickey and Minnie are similar and it has worked for decades. Maybe he went crazy when he realized there was variation between Pluto and Goofy, but the mice in town were just clones. Minnie is his evil split-personality for when he goes on killing sprees...
...but I doubt it.
^
What she said.
~Tobe
Pachamac, Tikal and the ancient echidnas from SA1 all look the same. Sega don't have designers, just craftsmen who are only allowed to follow a specific formula.
...
Or, you know. All Echidna's look the same. Is it cuz they have dreads?
You guys have all made excellent points. It's a typical trait of anthropomorphic characters for members of the same humanized animal species to look somewhat similar. Really, I think that the Echidnas in Archie-with the exception of Locke's early version-do a good job in differentiating from Knuckles. Even if they do look almost like the same character with just a few other things stuck on, it's the personality that matters.
Echidnas all have the dreads, Hedgehogs all have the quills-though not necessarily in the same style-it's all the same deal.
They're not dreads -.-..
Echidnas just wash their hair with Pantene Pro-V to let their spines flow down :o. Hedgehogs use Gel-X to keep their quills all pointy.
lolz, "spines".
Everytime someone keeps calling them that, I have to ask myself why they have more than one spine, considering that's meant to be for your back. 
That's what they're called... o.o;
Hedgehogs are easily distinguished by their spines, which are hollow hairs made stiff with keratin. first sentance of their wiki description, plus they're constantly referred to as spiny creatures.
Do you laugh when someone says Sonic's about three feet tall, because those are supposed to be at the end of his legs? o_O
It's called a homonym.
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JON GRAY IS A CLONE OF REV. JESSIE JACKSON!
Good sir, let it be known that the degradation of your deliberation is nothing but a contamination of your insubordination to the conflagration of the haitian nation equation.
In other words:
I IS WUT I IS AN I AIN'TS NOBUDDY ELSE BUT WHUT I'SE SPOSED T' BE! YASSUH YASSUH YASSUH!
And now that I have effectively set my people back 50 years, I retire to the reading room for a puff and a smoke on my bubble pipe. Adieu. XD
^ XD
Buh? Aaaaaay china.
