Dr. Finitevus. In my opinion, the coolest Echidna villain--Lien-Da isn't included in that topic, she's a villainess--after Enerjak himself. Finitevus has a killer wardrobe, a creepy yet cool look, and mysterious powers that we don't really know anything about yet. But here's the real question: who is he?
Here's my theory: I think that Doc Fin is, in fact, a transformed Luger. For those who don't know, that's the father of Julie-Su, Lien-Da, and Kragok, who disappeared when the terrible twins took over. Everyone in the comics seems to have disregarded his existence: Lien-Da and Kragok refuse to acknowledge that he even existed, having basically erased him from their family line. Most of them apparently think that he's dead.
But what if he's not? I'm of the opinion that somehow, Luger escaped from whatever attempt Kragok or Lien-Da might have made to kill him. That being said, he went into hiding, and over the years somehow became the crazy albino we all know and love today. Because he wants revenge on Lien-Da, he wormed his way into her inner circle and created a false identity. That identity is one intended to fool everyone until he wishes to reveal himself or to replace his old one, who wasn't strong enough to stop his kids from taking over and killing his wife. And now he's got the ultimate payback plan in the works for Lien-Da: he's going to take her down by bringing back Enerjak, no doubt with himself as second-in-command of the Dark Legion.
How did I come to the conclusion that Luger and Finitevus could be the same individual, you ask? Well, if you check out the pictures [a href=""knuckles.truered.net/comi...tevus.php"]here [/a] and [a href=""knuckles.truered.net/comi...itevus.php]here[/a], you'll see that Luger and Finitevus both have similar patches of their cheek replaced. They're not exactly identical, but who's to say that Finitevus didn't alter it to make his new appearance more disguising if he is in fact Luger?
Tell me what you think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody...
But I'm pretty sure that someone asked Ian Flynn about the whereabouts of Luger. I think he said that he assumed Luger was killed by the evil twins, like Mari-Su.
Of course, he may have been trying to throw us off track. When Dr. Finitevus was first introduced in the comic, I'm pretty sure that Ken Penders said it was meant for him to be revealed as a revamped Dmitri. I loved that idea, but that one never worked out.
I like the idea of Dr. Fin being an echidna in disguise, though. That makes him a character expansion rather than a character addition.
I like that idea too, and it would be danged neat if they actually were able to hold a continuity like that. And since he was in the Negative Zone so long, he probably could have really plotted this out for a very long time-and maybe even somehow be responsible for the "disappearance" of the Guardians...
;_; I want my Spectre back.
I'm sure we all want Spectre back...particularly if there's a chance of him and Finitevus duking it out! As for Luger being dead, well, that was a long time ago, and it's not like Ken is part of the Archie crew anymore. Maybe he later changed his mind, but either way, Finitevus rocks!
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As for Luger being dead, well, that was a long time ago, and it's not like Ken is part of the Archie crew anymore.
Ah, it was Ian (who is currently writing the comic) that basically said that he's considering Luger dead. Ken never said one way or the other to my knowledge.
Okay, True Red, maybe Ian's just misleading us and saying that Luger is dead. Writers do that sometimes. As for my reference to Ken, I got it from someone who replied before you.
It's obviously Dr Zachary. Obviously.
Seriously though, I don't reckon Fini is any other echidna, I think he's just some evil goit the legion dug out of their ranks at some point. Possibly have some genetic/excessive cybernetic playing about.
But if he's anyone, he does have a rather similar posture to a certain fog and cloaked Guardian...
Magenta Darkwolfe, I must offer my vehement protests. Finitevus is in no way related to that freak Zachary from Fleetway.
I know that he may just be some new guy, but I'd like to think that he's someone we know about who's been mysteriously transformed. Sure, he could just be a Legion supersoldier, but I don't think so.
As for the possibility of him being Spectre, I find it highly unlikely. Spectre wouldn't aid Dimitri, and he wouldn't be working with the Dark Legion. I'll admit that Finitevus and him are similar, but that's either a bizarre coincidence or, as I've said, a hint of some similar origin.
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Magenta Darkwolfe, I must offer my vehement protests. Finitevus is in no way related to that freak Zachary from Fleetway.
he's joking. that's why he said obviously twice.
i think finitevus is just a brand new character personally.
New character or revamped old one, either way Dr. Finitevus is the best active villain in the comics right now. Hopefully when his plan reaches it's endgame it will last at least be a four parter, even better and 25th issue arc!
ECHIDNAS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!
If Finivetus is a previous character in disguise, who could he really be apart from Luger or part of the Brotherhood?
If Finivetus is a previous character in disguise, who could he really be apart from Luger or part of the Brotherhood?
I was thinking Menniker. We never actually saw him die, did we?
You all bring up good points. If Finitevus is an old character transformed, then Luger or a member of the Brotherhood is most likely. Of course, I'm leaning in favor of Luger, but that's just me.
As for Menniker, I suppose he could somehow be involved, but I'm pretty sure both he and Aaron got vaporized with no way to participate further in the story. Xenin doesn't seem likely either: he's not intelligent enough, and I seriously doubt he went from Frankenstein's monster to a more Dracula type villain. Besides, we saw him in the Egg Grape Chamber immediately after Finitevus had used Hunter's attack to slip away. Nor do I think that Finitevus is the guy who played King Leonitus in 300, although if they ever made an Archie-based Sonic cartoon, animated movie, or game, he'd probably be a shoe-in for the voice role.
Magenta Wolf, I know you were joking about Zachary; I was just playing along. And I agree with Exodus 666: whether Finitevus is an old character transformed or a totally new one, he's one of the coolest on the block! Echidnas rule! (By the way, Exodus, I'M still the real number #1 KnucklesxJulie-Su fan!)
Finitevus' big plan will likely be several issues; I'm hoping for the first ever 6-part story arc!
Thanks for your comments!
Xenin was Egg Graped like Spectre said, and Menniker would be dead by old age alone now, even if he'd survived the explosion.
Moritori Rex would be great as Finitevus too, it's been years since we saw him.
To MattManic7325 wow that was another cool posibility, one because Moritori Rex got blind like Tobor and got cibernetic eyes, Finitevus seems to have cibernetic eyes that looks sligtly like Tobor eyes, so I guess Moritori upgraded his cibernetic eyes and his look(yep I know that Darklegioners normaly can get a cybernetic eye if the lose one). So if Finitevus is really Moritori then it will be a cool come back for him, If he is not, then I think he ended in the Egg grapes like Xenin. about the posibility of Finitevus being Luger its cool too, I would really like to see him getting revenge on his only traitor child Lien-Da (Im not counting Julie-Su because I dont know if he still loves her or hates her and Kragok is dead). besides this two posibilities I think Finitevus is a great Dark legioner character that has become my favorite, second to Dimitri.
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Menniker would be dead by old age alone now, even if he'd survived the explosion.
Weeelll now, not that I believe Finitevus is Menniker, but remember when Dimitri's powers were taken by Mogul, he should have died but the Legion saved him with heavy cybernetics. Who's to say that Menniker didn't do the same, though I highly doubt Ian would bring him back from the dead.
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Im not counting Julie-Su because I dont know if he still loves her or hates her and Kragok is dead
Unless Luger went completely insane, of course he loves Julie because she was a baby, or at least a toddler, then and could have been in noway involved.
Well, I seriously doubt Finitevus is Menniker. Even if he did survive getting blown up, he'd be ancient by now. Besides, as is the case with Dimitri, he's probably be so old that he'd need heavy cyborg implantation to survive-unless he somehow became youthful again. Sounds like an interesting concept, but I find it highly unlikely.
Moritori would be an interesting choice, but as with Menniker I think that he'd need to have somehow become young again. After all, Moritori is a lot older than any other Legionnaire but Dimitri, since he aged about four times the number of years he would have in the Twilight Zone. Still, I admit that it would be intriguing, especially if Archie decided to make Finitevus and Spectre nemeses; Spectre would have a double reason to hate him, both because he's a Legionnaire and because he's the Legionnaire who impersonated his father for so long.
While Menniker and Moritori do sound like cool candidates, my money is still on Luger. As a matter of fact, I think it would make a great story if I'm right. Imagine if Julie-Su got captured by Finitevus, only to learn that he was her long-lost father! That kind of revelation could have a very traumatic effect on Julie: on the one hand, she's got her father back; on the other, he's become a deranged maniac. I know that fanfic stuff really isn't supposed to be in these pages, but I'm actually going to do a story with that.
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Moritori would be an interesting choice, but as with Menniker I think that he'd need to have somehow become young again.
But then again, we did see Moritori after his betrayal of the Brotherhood, and he look like he was in fairly good health.
True, FMR, he was in good health, but Finitevus appears to be in <i>better</i> health. Finitevus doesn't look any older than Locke; Moritori looks as old as Tobor did before he died-in fact, he basically is that old. Besides, for all we know, Moritori was one of the guys stuck in the Egg Grape Chamber.
True, but if Finny's white fur is actually a disguise, via costume, cloaking device, magic, etc., then it could be Mori, which I doubt. Also, if Luger made his way to Mobius Prime, he could be pretty old too; remember, Luger is Mori's son so he would be at least 20 yrs. younger than Mori.
You've got a point, but think about this: Luger, if he is still alive and became Finitevus, would have returned to Mobius Prime quite some time after Moritori, given that the Dark Legion lives one generation to every four of Mobius'. Luger could well have emerged as late as the period of time in which Janelle-Li was Guardian, which really wouldn't make him that old. Not to mention that Echidnas live a lot longer than other Mobians, and so age more slowly. Given that, it could be quite possible for Luger to be Finitevus and not have altered his age. Of course, there's always the possibility that whatever might have made him Finitevus did alter his age, no doubt making him young again.
If he came back during Janelle-Li stint as guardian, by the way, did you mean pre-Athair's birth/mitreship or post Athair's birth/pre-Sabre's birth period, than that has to be like 40 years, after all Janelle-Li is Knux's great-great grandmother, and I would think Luger would be really old then. Also, other than the guardians and Dimitri with there chaos-enhanced powers, there is no proof that ordinary echina's live longer than any other Mobians, and we have no idea how old Simon and Floren-Ca is.
To tell you the truth, FMR, I don't really know. I just made the assumption that, if Luger is in fact Finitevus and escaped to Mobius Prime, he would likely have been born at the same time as Spectre and thus gone through Spectre, Thunderhawk, Sojourner, and finally Janelle-Li before he would have been forced to lead. That's really just a guess, and I may be totally wrong.
For that matter, who's to say that-in this hypothetical situation-Luger ever left the Twilight Zone? For all we know, he just hid himself amongst the Legion's ranks, undergoing whatever transformation made him into Finitevus, and then reemerged as Lien-Da and Dimitri's advisor during Sonic's six week/year long trip in space.
As for the Echidnas living longer deal, you've got a point: I don't really know that they do. I just got the information from a fellow fan who seemed quite well informed, and a writer of some of the best Knuckles fics I've ever seen. I suppose that they could have the same longevity as other Mobians; if they do, then I feel like a complete idiot.
I don't think regular echidnas live longer than other Mobians like the Guardians or Dimitri. I do believe that was part of the point of making sure time moved slower in the Twilight Zone so that Ken didn't have to make so many different characters (he already made a ton with the family tree as it is).
I haven't read Knuckles or Julie-Su's profiles on Wikipedia in a long time, but I still have a chuckle at the fact that Ellie-Za's storyline stuff had creeped its way into their Wikipedia entries, particularly when talking about the soultouch and its effects.
Unless Moritori has been shown to be in an Egg Grape (I remember Xenin was in one back #141), I think he's a more likely candidate than Luger. Luger it was strongly hinted that he was killed in SSS#11. Moritori, on the other hand, just dropped off the face of Mobius for apparently no reason.
Yeah, I'll admit that I was wrong, and maybe I did take too much of Ellie-Za's work to be truth. What can I say? She's one of the best fanfic writers I've ever seen. Also, just how are the effects of the Soultouch different from what she put in her stories?
I'll admit that Moritori would seem a likely candidate. Of course, his longevity seems to support the idea that Echidnas live longer than other Mobians. After all, since he was in about his thirties when Spectre was a kid, I'd imagine that he's probably 100+ years old, and yet he's still in fighting condition. Unless Echidnas don't get decrepit until a week before they're on the deathbead, I'm thinking he's a pretty good indicator that Echidnas live longer. Furthermore, I highly doubt you could explain his age away to Chaos power, because if he could use it, he probably would have.
I'll admit, Luger may not be the likeliest candidate-but he's still a possibility! After all, comic writers usually like to use tactics of disinformation to make it seem as though a character is dead, only to bring them back as part of some plot scheme. I'll support Luger as Finitevus until indisputable evidence that he's not has been provided, and I doubt that's going to happen any time soon. Moritori I still say is too old.
I'd say Luger is definitely out of the running - Ian's made it pretty clear before that dead characters are staying dead. In fact I'm pretty sure I recall him saying that he'd love to bring back Kragok, but doesn't want to start using death cheats.
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Furthermore, I highly doubt you could explain his age away to Chaos power, because if he could use it, he probably would have.
I don't know about that. Something the guardins or Legion has never brought up is that they, or at least the Brotherhood and Legion grand masters, are both descendants of Byron and Angel-La (Dimitri and Edmunds' parents) so it should stand to reason that the head masters have a connection to the ME just that they've never thought of it. As a matter of fact, I think that's how Hawking mistook Mori for Tobor; the fact that since they are from the same family, they both have a collar ring to make identifing them a little confusing.
Good point, FMR, but I'm still thinking that Echidna life spans are longer.
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Also, just how are the effects of the Soultouch different from what she put in her stories?
There's nothing special about the soultouch in Archie that's actually been mentioned. The soultouch just tells echidnas with whom they should make babies. There aren't any extra special "sensing" abilities or connection that isn't different from what say Antoine/Bunnie do and feel.
Adding onto Rayzor's comments on Moritori, remember he was exposed to the chaos emerald's effects when he impersonated Tobor for all those years. They thought Moritori was Tobor, he actually should know plenty about how the Guardians use the chaos emerald's power even if he can't use it as well as they can.
Okay, now I read you.
Man, you just have to ruin all the cool things about Echidnas who aren't Guardians. Well, at least this apparently answers my question to where all the Guardians' spouses are: they're all <i>dead</i>, except for Lara-Le and maybe one or two others.
Unless Moritori has been shown to be in an Egg Grape (I remember Xenin was in one back #141), I think he's a more likely candidate than Luger. Luger it was strongly hinted that he was killed in SSS#11. Moritori, on the other hand, just dropped off the face of Mobius for apparently no reason.
According to BoBR over at Pender's website Dr. Fin was suppose to be Moritori but was changed to be a compeletely different character for some reason.
But it was Karl's arc (Finitevus was actually designed by Jon Gray), which means that listening to BobR on it is exactly like listening to Penders - ie. take it with a large truckload of salt.
Well, I suppose that if I can theorize some way for Luger to become Finitevus, someone else can theorize it for Moritori. I'm still in favor of Julie-Su's dad, but we'll have to find out in #181-at least, that's what Ian says.
I'd love it if Dr. Finitevus was Luger. I've thaught for years that it'd make a good story arc to see Julie-Su torn between Knuckles and her father, love or vengence against the Dark Legion.
Wow, Exodus; I didn't know anyone really liked my theory. I do agree, it would certainly be a great story to find Julie-Su torn between her love for Knuckles and her desire for the family she never had, but can you imagine how horrified learning that Finitevus is her father would be (if this were true, anyway)?
Think about it: Finitevus has liberated several criminals, tricked Locke into giving him charge of the Master Emerald, and in the near future will give rise to a reborn Enerjak. Do you think that even Julie-Su could stand such a horrible revelation? Especially if it turns out that the new Enerjak is Knuckles; her own loved turned into a madman by the father she'd thought dead could push her off the deep end with an anvil attached!
It'd be great if Dr. Finitevus was Luger, it'd be the perfect opportunity to go further into Julie's feelings about her DL past (which they've never done a go job of). I hated in M25LY that Julie-Su was friends with Lien-Da. That was so stupid, most people would never be able to for give the person who killed their parents, erased their memory, and basically slaved them for the majority of their life. Julie-Su seems to me one to hold a grudge and Luger being alive and a willing out lit for vengeance would make tempting opportunity and a great story.
Man, Exodus, you rock! Talking to you about this stuff is like talking to myself! We both hold the same opinions about Luger and Julie-Su! I agree, Lien-Da and Julie-Su "making up"-Lien-Da was faking it, obivously-in M25YL was totally stupid. You can't erase someone's memory, kill both-or even just one-of their parents, try to kill them and their friends numerous times, hit on the love of their life, and then expect to be forgiven. Sorry Archie; you blew it again.
In your opinion maybe. Personally, I think this fan idea is lackluster, and would'nt read it if I was paid. 
Toby Barrett said:
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In your opinion maybe. Personally, I think this fan idea is lackluster, and would'nt read it if I was paid.
Well your entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. In my opinion Archie has never done a good job emotionally developing the Sonic comic cast and I think Dr. Finitevus being Luger would be a great opportunity to do so for several characters.
Also it would lead to characters dealing with more mature themes the comics over looked in the past like vengeance or murder. Now I now the comic's target audience is younger readers, but done correctly the best stories can be intriguing for several age groups and won't talk down to younger readers.
Amen, Exodus! Luger as Finitevus would be a great opportunity to get more emotional development on some of the characters. First, you have Julie-Su's joy and horror at such a revelation; then you have the suspicion or faith of her friends as she deals with it. It would definitely be a good idea to work out a story that would appeal to all audiences-aside from the pervs, that is.
The idea doesn't appeal to me, it sounds like far too much melodrama. And I'm pretty sure I'm not a perv. o_O
It's evil alternate future Knuckles.
Srsly.
(Actually I like that idea, it wouldn't happen, but that's not what crazy spec is about ;P)
A bit off topic but...I would love to see Knux, JS, and their crew to get some well developed character development, but I'd be happy if any characters got good character development.
Sonic and Sally's break up was out off the blue.
Fiona disappears from the comics for a while and then she's evil when see returns, because it was to hard being good. They never dealt with her strain of being good.
Watch, the whole "Prower Rebellion" will be rush and lack decent story/ character development.
I'm loving Ian's run but Archie still has a ways to go.
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Fiona disappears from the comics for a while and then she's evil when see returns, because it was to hard being good. They never dealt with her strain of being good.
No... Fiona appeared from a long absence, tried to do the right thing for a while, and then decided she had more fun being bad. She didn't have all this inner angst about trying to be good. She just gave it a shot for a while and decided it wasn't working for her.
Back to the topic at hand, I can't really see a point to Luger being Finitevus. It being a potential point of growth for Julie-Su would only stem from it being a close relative of hers; Luger was only around when Julie was very young, and then her siblings had her mind wiped, so it would have next to no impact on her if her father somehow became this dark creepy monster because she doesn't know him. Just that he'd be of blood relation wouldn't matter to her; she's already directly fought her half-siblings and ancestors. Besides, what little was shown of Luger doesn't seem to tie in with cruel, ruthless Finitevus.
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Sonic and Sally's break up was out off the blue.
Not really. The ground work for it was laid out in #124 ironically. However, the first hint came in #132 when Sally wasn't allowed to go help Sonic when she wanted to do so. The next big hint came in #133 at Sally's outburst. Then, #134 was a complete hint toward it happening from beginning to end.
It was sudden, but not out of the blue.
First about my comment on Fiona and the Sonic/ Sally break up. Your right they had some lead up to it and it wasn't totally out of the blue, but the lead in and fallow through were done very poorly in my opinion.
Crazy Cham Lea Said:
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Back to the topic at hand, I can't really see a point to Luger being Finitevus. It being a potential point of growth for Julie-Su would only stem from it being a close relative of hers; Luger was only around when Julie was very young, and then her siblings had her mind wiped, so it would have next to no impact on her if her father somehow became this dark creepy monster because she doesn't know him. Just that he'd be of blood relation wouldn't matter to her; she's already directly fought her half-siblings and ancestors. Besides, what little was shown of Luger doesn't seem to tie in with cruel, ruthless Finitevus.
Exactly, we saw very little of Luger, we don't know what his personality was like. Also if he was Doc Fin and excepted Julie which would be the fist time a blood family member did so. That might be very tempting for some one who never really had/ remembered their family.
What I meant, MattManic, was that the only group the story wouldn't try to appeal to would be pervs. I'm not implying that you're a perv; just that pervs are a GROUP that the story wouldn't be aimed at.
Anyway, why do you think it sounds like too much melodrama? It could be a touching saga filled with revelations and angst-basically, the same thing that happens whenever Shadow comes to call.
Sally and Sonic's breakup didn't come out of the blue-I don't even know why we're talking about this-but their conflicting personalities could have led to this long beforehand; all they were waiting for was the catalyst of Sonic refusing to leave behind his Freedom Fighter duties to help Sally rule the kingdom. It was definitely sudden, but not entirely unexpected, given that their relationship has been seriously strained before. Had it not been for Sonic's trip in space, the whole thing might have been avoided, but he hung out with the aliens and everything went to heck after that.
I think that Finitevus being Julie-Su's father would have a greater impact on her than some of you seem to think. It's true that she's fought against several of her relatives, but you have to consider that none of them were her parents. Julie doesn't remember Luger, do to having her memory wiped, and every orphan has to wonder what their real parents were like. Since she doesn't have any clue what kind of person Luger was in her past, she has no way of knowing if he was as cruel or evil as Kragok and Lien-Da.
Then you have to consider that her mother fell in love with him. While the Soultouch may have had a lot to do with that, Mari-Su could have left him if she truly had no feelings for him. Julie is then left with a conundrum: if Mari loved him, then could he really be as evil as her siblings? Once again, the whole thing is a mystery to her: she doesn't remember her parents, both because she was young and because her memory was erased. Discovering the father she had never known and had only recently learned of, not to mention seeing him as an enemy that the Freedom Fighters/Chaotix had fought on multiple occasions, Julie could very well be overwhelmed. While it might not surprise her too greatly, given her altercations with her other relatives, it would still be hard to realize that the parent she had no doubt dreamed about meeting turned out to be the same kind of villain that her sister is.
