Seriously dude, don't double post, just edit them. This is like the third time you've been told now, the mods are gonna start to get cranky.
And a "touching saga filled with revelations and angst" is exactly why I don't like the idea of the story. "My long-last father, who I never knew, is actually evil! Now I must choose between the family I never knew, or the love of my life! Woe is me!" It sounds like something you'd find on Days of Our Lives, and it doesn't match Julie-Su's character at all.
Sorry, MattManic. Sometimes I just forget that I've said something before. Although, you could show a little more respect for my plot line idea. Sure, you may hate it, but that doesn't mean you have to blatantly tell me it sucks. You could show a little consideration: I started this topic, and really it's all theory anyway.
It's evil alternate future Knuckles.
You know, CD, that actually sounds like a cool idea! If you're referring to the insane Knuckles from the original Lara-Su's future, that could be a really awesome plot twist! After all, who's too say what absorbing enough Chaos energy to go insane could have done to Knuckles, not to mention the passage of time and whatever circumstances were involved in him getting to the past in the first place. Bravo, for remembering an obscure plot and applying it to this situation!
EDIT:CCL, if you're talking to me, when did I double post? I was just expressing my approval for Crimson Darkwolfe's idea regarding Finitevus' origin-which just so happens to be the topic we're discussing. If that counts as double-posting, I don't see it, and if it really does count, I apologize.
Sorry, MattManic. I just get really opinionated, and I sometimes let my views get away from me. You're right: I shouldn't expect everyone to fall in line behind my theories, and as I think about it Julie's character doesn't fit that. I'm sorry; I just thought it might be cool for character development.
...You were told two posts ago not to double-post.
Stop acting like everytime someone disagrees with you, they're deliberately going out of their way to make personal jabs at you. This is a discussion forum, we discuss - not salute you and stand in line behind your theories. If you can't handle people criticizing your ideas, don't post them.
If I wanted to say it sucked, I would have. All I'm saying is that it doesn't match the tone of the comic, especially since Ian took the reins; and it doesn't make sense for Julie-Su's character to act in such a way.
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EDIT:CCL, if you're talking to me, when did I double post? I was just expressing my approval for Crimson Darkwolfe's idea regarding Finitevus' origin-which just so happens to be the topic we're discussing. If that counts as double-posting, I don't see it, and if it really does count, I apologize.
Two posts in a row from the same user counts as a double-post. Just edit the first one instead of adding a second one.
Oh, now I understand. I won't do that again; please forgive my ignorance.
EDIT: I know we're discussing how Finitevus got to be what he is today-I should know, I started the thread-but does anyone have any opinions as to what position he'll be in when Enerjak comes back?
I still think that he's likely to BE that one.
But I'd still like to know why he ditched the Dark Legion and went into business for himself and where he came from within the legion in the first place.
You're welcome to that opinion, Alex.
As for why Finitevus ditched the Legion and where he came from, that's basically what this thread is about. He seems to have ditched the Legion because he disapproves of Lien-Da's leadership, not to mention her inability to get rid of the Dingoes and how her incompetence has seemingly led to the current civil war. Finitevus seems to have a die hard loyalty to the Legion, and by bringing Enerjak back he hopes to restore it to its former glory and accomplish their mission of world domination-or at least domination of the Echidna species.
Nobody-except the writers-knows about where Finitevus came from within the Legion. Before leaving he was Lien-Da's advisor, and from what I've heard he was a medical technician-hence the "Dr." Other than that, we know next to nothing about him, and we won't until the big Enerjak arc comes out.
Unless he's the leader of the Ice Legion, and he started this entire civil war.
The name's actually the Frost Legion, but Finitevus is not the leader. Locke showed Knuckles an image of the Frost Legion leader during his last attempt to convince Knuckles to come back to Angel Island, and if it wasn't Remington then I'm a five-fingered Overlander. Finitevus is trying to reunite the two Legions; this indicates to me that he doesn't have any influence in that regard, otherwise he wouldn't be so determined to resurrect Enerjak.
Besides that, until Finitevus' whole story is revealed we have no idea who he really is. If he's just a Legionnaire-which I doubt, but it's possible-then the Dark Legion wouldn't split so that one half of it would follow him. Part of Enerjak's appeal as the leader of a reunified Dark Legion is that, as far as the Legionnaires will probably be informed, he's Dimitri restored to power. As such, they will support his claims to leadership because he's a member of the Grand Master line. Finitevus, as far as the comic has shown, has no such claims and so wouldn't have any such support.
This reminds me of an old story point I used in my fanfics. Ironically, Julie-Su is the only member of the Grand Master line besides the reformed Dimitri (who after being reduced to a head by the dear doctor isn't in a position to lead much of anything), to be able to put selfish desire aside and try to focus on what the Legion's original goal -was-, to cure Echidna culture of it's out dated technophobia.
Observant as usual, Alex; I've also noticed that interesting piece of trivia. Personally, I think it would be intriguing if Julie-Su were somehow pressed into taking over as Dark Legion Grand Master. I mean, Enerjak clearly won't be around forever (probably another 6 issue deal like last time), Lien-Da has no doubt earned the animosity of a large percentage of the Legion, and assuming that Remington is out of his mind he'll probably want to return to his old life if he comes to his senses. Dimitri'll be keeling over any decade now, so that leaves *duhduhnuhnuh* Julie-Su.
Of course, it's not likely to happen: the Legion isn't going to want Julie in charge unless some drastic development takes place. Of course, her leadership could just be example; the rest of the Dark Legion could just leave the group behind and try to reintegrate themselves into Echidna society. It would be rough, but if Julie made it others could too.
The idea sounds fascinating, now that you've gotten me onto it: the Guardian and the Grand Master, two young lovers, both seeking to reunify their peoples and resolve the differences between Angel Islander and Dark Legionnaire alike. Both sides stand a lot to gain from such an agreement, and then they put that technological might to good use-namely, showing Robotnik that he's playing around with toys and blowing him to Kingdom Come.
I don't see Juile-Su becoming the leader of the Dark Legion any time soon, especially with her half brother and sister in the picture.
I am also aware that it's not likely to happen, DC. Of course, given that Lien-Da is one step short of a dictator, I doubt the Legion would mind a change. Doesn't mean it would be Julie-Su, but she is a possiblity if they get desperate enough.
Spoilers (Select To Read): As for Kragok, he's dead; the guy who's in charge of the Frost Legion appears to be his son Remington, who's apparently taken a liking to his father's wardrobe and bionic arm. No idea as of yet how he ended up in that position, but we're supposed to hear about that during the Enerjak acr.
I forgot about what happened to Kragok, Spectre. I admit I don't pay attention to the Knux side of things as I do the Sonic.
I'm sorry to hear that, but it's understandable. Sadly, Knuckles' story has taken a back row seat to Sonic's since his series got cancelled. A pity; if it hadn't, Finitevus might actually have gotten more of a rep than he does now (back on topic :D).
Well, if DC's anything like me, the reason for not paying attention to Knuckles' side of the story is because it was completely boring, in my opinion.
Wow, Knuckles side was boring, I hope you just mean his backstories and not his comics. IMO, Knuckles' series always kept me wanting more which is more than I could say for Sonic's series then, or even now. And this mind, you, coming from someone who generally likes Sonic more than Knux.
When I read Knuckles, I did'nt want to read about Knuckles and a bunch of Knuckles clones talking about politics or wasting pages upon pages for backstory. I wanted to read about Knuckles punching stuff, and being cool. Not a guy who crys because mommy's getting married again.
The politics were also dull, but that's just me. Plus, I hated the way that Kenders wrote the character. Does'nt matter anymore though, I sent my issues to a better place.
admittedly the knux stories seemed more soap opera driven for awhile, but i loved when knux and kragok duked it out for the second time.
I'll admit that the politics of Knuckles sucked. However, I do not think it is fair to call the Echidnas in the series Knuckles clones; he was the basis for the species, so it can't be helped that they share many of his traits-it's the same deal with the Hedgehogs and Sonic. Personally, I think that Knuckles' back story was fascinating: for once a Sonic series actually covered his origins. We hear from just about every series how Tails showed up on Sonic's team, and how Sonic came to be, but Knuckles' past is only expounded on in the comics.
While I agree that Knuckles smashing things is what I mainly like to see, it's an interesting concept to see him in an environment where he has to use his brain instead of his fists. I must say, however, that I don't get his whole child prodigy education when he was a kid-did he just forget all that stuff over the course of having to survive by himself in an island wilderness or something?
Full Metal Rayzor, I'm glad that you share my enjoyment of the Knuckles comics; while I haven't read any of them all the way through yet, I've seen enough storyline information to agree that they're pretty good comics. Unfortunately, the series got cancelled and Knuckles and the Chaotix found themselves relegated to the second story scenario of every other issue of the Sonic comics, with a handful of occasions in which they actually joined the Freedom Fighters in the cover plot.
No idea why you all hate Penders-I'm not entirely familiar with his work on the comics, so I don't know what elements of Archie I should despise him for-but if he was the guy behind the Knuckles series, he used to have some pretty good ideas. If he was in charge of all that, then he's responsible for bringing us the only decent Knuckles enemies you can find in virtually any storyline. Besides, the guy wanted to do a cartoon series/movie based on the Knuckles the Echidna comics; that's an idea that gets me drooling. Sadly, he didn't get approval, and it's doubtful he ever will if he's still trying.
Anyway, getting back on topic: Dr. Finitevus. Anyone have any ideas as to what his powers might be? I've used him in a couple fanfictions, and there he's used Order energy (the opposite of Chaos) or dark magic. Now, do I hear any other suggestions?
Going offtopic for a bit, one of the things I loved about the Knuckles series was the variety of designs. I loved Gala-Na's design when she first appeared. I just wonder why they changed her color.
Mean as it sounds, I somehow think lazy mistake over intentional decision.
I personally think he may be a revived character.. i mean look at him.. the eyes.. his hands and feet are bandaged and wrapped up as if he was mummified or something... and his base... looks like egyptian tombs and whatnot... i just think he is either a new character all together or..a revived one.. but either way.. he doesnt seem to be with the living, but u cant really judge by looks completely
Necromancy?
we could all imagine a zombie army revived by ol finitevus.. eheh with technologically advanced weaponry..
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Going offtopic for a bit, one of the things I loved about the Knuckles series was the variety of designs. I loved Gala-Na's design when she first appeared. I just wonder why they changed her color.
There are no variation in the designs. Most of the Echidna cast in the series are based off of Knuckles' construction. All they did was paste details on top of him. This also goes for Finitevus as well.
I'm beginning to question not only Archie's design department, but Sonic Team's as well.
Rembrandt, Spectre, and nearly the entire Dark Legion would beg to differ.
Point to Kayla, aka, Unicron.
Amen, Sailor Unicron.
Besides, the reasoning that all Echidnas are variations of Knuckles' design could be applied to Hedgehogs as well. I mean, come on: Uncle Chuck is Sonic with a moustache and bushy eyebrows, Jules used to be Sonic with a weird hairdo, Bernie is Sonic as a girl with a weird hairdo, Shadow is similar to Sonic except for a few differences in color and the shape of body parts-I could go on if I talked about Hedgehogs in other series. Let's face it-Archie can't just build whole new characters from the same species every time they bring a new guy in; there has to be a bit of a standard design.
Of course, I am not of the opinion that all the Echidnas are Knuckles clones; they just have similar blueprints. Besides, if they are Knuckles clones, then they're a heck of a lot better than the Sonic clones. I mean, at least the Echidnas aren't all one color-Shadow and Amy don't count for this-and aren't separated from the original character by a bit of additional hair!
Not all characters of the same species look smiliar. Keep in mind Bill and Penelope, or Arlo and Mighty.
I agree, MattManic. I'm just saying that the majority of Sonic characters who are members of the same species look a lot alike, and it comes from the fact that they make so many of them that they don't have the time to come up with entirely new designs. As such, they're forced to duplicate the appearance of other characters and make changes in coloring, wardrobe, and hair quantity.
Oh, it wasn't directed specifically at you; I just thought it was an interesting point considering the current discussion.
Someone mentioned on the previous page that Finitevus looks like a zombie wrapped in bandages - as little chance as there is, I think I could marry Ian if it somehow works out that he's Kragok.
Knuckles standing with a bunch of his clones:
www.nz17.com/sonic-wiki/i...fGuardians
With the exception of Janelle-li and a few others, they all have the same pose too! They're also wearing generic facial expressions.
And Scourge still looks like Evil Sonic, only now he's green.
In all fairness, the shot you just linked is meant to be an easy guide. It is just a small file, I'm sure they didn't want to go into great detail for just that. Go to the actual issues and see them while they're showing emotion, etc. it won't be the same. And to be honest, that's all Scourge is...a green Evil Sonic; he's got a little bit more pronounced canines now but that's about it.
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In all fairness, the shot you just linked is meant to be an easy guide. It is just a small file, I'm sure they didn't want to go into great detail for just that.
Still more than enough proof that they are based on Knuckles design. Some variation would do well.
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Go to the actual issues and see them while they're showing emotion, etc. it won't be the same.
There is still nothing very specific about the emotion. For the most part, happiness is still portrayed as an open anime-esque mouth, or a smirk on the side of the face.
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And to be honest, that's all Scourge is...a green Evil Sonic; he's got a little bit more pronounced canines now but that's about it.
And who wants that?
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With the exception of Janelle-li and a few others, they all have the same pose too! They're also wearing generic facial expressions.
Well, yeah. It was drawn by Ken Penders. Even the dreads pretty much fall the same way.
If you look at, say, The Lost Tribe arc's covers, you can see that Spaz at least tried to vary the body and face shapes among the tons of nameless echidnas there.
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If you look at, say, The Lost Tribe arc's covers, you can see that Spaz at least tried to vary the body and face shapes among the tons of nameless echidnas there.
Why is Spaz the only one doing this?
Maybe, because Ken was lazy?
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Why is Spaz the only one doing this?
Who says that he is? Seriously, I could to try to make variations all I want but I couldn't do it. There's a huge difference between the art skills of Spaz and Ken Penders. There's a huge difference between the art skills of Spaz and many artists that have ever worked for Archie as well.
Considering most of the echidnas in Sonic Adventure weren't much more that variations of Knuckles I don't see the point being made here either.
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Who says that he is? Seriously, I could to try to make variations all I want but I couldn't do it. There's a huge difference between the art skills of Spaz and Ken Penders. There's a huge difference between the art skills of Spaz and many artists that have ever worked for Archie as well.
I guess there is a big difference, especially since Spaz is the one who came up with Scourge's design. I'm not saying Spaz isn't talented, he is, although why is that only in a blue moon do we ever get to see characters that aren't based off of an existing design?
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Considering most of the echidnas in Sonic Adventure weren't much more that variations of Knuckles I don't see the point being made here either.
And yet they still weren't very interesting to look at. I would expect an artist to go beyond the curriculum and come up with something even better, or at least something more appealing as opposed to a consistent design.
I've come to the conclusion that a majority of the fans will eat up just about anything that's given to them. So much for variety. It's best we get back on topic.
Well guys, let's remember that the comic covers and the comic pages aren't done by the same artists. Spaz just had to do the covers for the Forgotten Tribe trilogy, so he had all the time that Ken had to work on the pages to just work on those covers. As such, he had less to do and so could afford to take the time to vary the designs. Ken, on the other hand, had to come up with three issues worth of art, and the same goes for virtually every other Knuckles comic. The Echidnas look like Knuckles because he was an existing design that was easy to duplicate and alter slightly for the purpose of the comic; creating a variety of different body types and such would probably have taken too much time. Anyway, it's gone and done, so it's not that big a deal anymore.
Finitevus certainly has undead like qualities about him, though I wouldn't say he's a zombie. Nor do I think he's Kragok; unless he was somehow brought back through some kind of occultism, Kragok's body was vaporized. If I had to lable him as a horror movie monster, I'd say vampire: he's got the sharp teeth, we've never seen him in daylight, he commands dark powers of a mysterious nature, and he's clearly no ordinary Echidna. Of course, I doubt that Archie has made him into any such thing; he's most likely an Echidna who has gained a few unusual abilities. Who he may have been before getting those abilities remains to be seen.
Actually, Spectre, the artist for most of the Knux comic was the talented Manny Galan. He drew almost every comic up to ish no. 25, except for issues no. 22-24, the election arc, when he left Archie for good.
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why is that only in a blue moon do we ever get to see characters that aren't based off of an existing design?
Because the point is to make things recognizable. If they were radically different, then they wouldn't be recognizable. I personally don't see the point because usually if you are the same species there isn't that much variation either in anything. Of course, I don't see any major difference in Scourge from Sonic. They still look the same to me beyond a color difference and adding a scar. If that's supposed to be variety, then the echidnas have had plenty in the Knuckles series.
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And yet they still weren't very interesting to look at.
You missed my point. My point was that everyone makes characters, especially minor ones, of a character of the same species look the same. There's no point in complaining about Archie doing it when the source material does the same thing.
Well said, True Red. Characters of the same species look alike so that they're easily recognizable, and Archie is just doing the same thing as Sega. I mean, did you see the Echidnas in Sonic Adventure? If they weren't Knuckles clones than I don't know what qualifies. At least Sega does a better job of distinguishing Echidnas from each other with differing coloring, varying physical features, and unique wardrobes. The Echidnas have plenty of variety; if they happen to look basically the same underneath it, oh well.
As for Sonic and Scourge...let's face it: they're the same design except that Scourge has sunglasses and a jacket and they're colored differently. In fact, the differences between them aren't all that different from those between some of the Echidnas in the series. I've talked about the same thing with the Hedgehogs before; nobody should knock the Echidnas when the Hedgehogs have been doing it since before an Echidna even appeared in the comics.
When it comes to taking a similar design and changing it, Dr. Finitevus is a stunning example. Really, he's radically different from virtually any character in the Sonic universe: he's got white fur, he has blacks instead of whites in his eyes, and he has a number of interesting fashion elements in his costume. Just to get back on topic.
Maybe Sonic and Scourge look the same because... they're the same person?
Uh, YEAH. Sonic and Scourge are the same guy, they've just got a different color scheme and wardrobe. Of course, Archie could just as easily have made Scourge a completely different character and made him look the same. It's basically the same thing with most of the Echidnas; you could just as easily make all of them alternate versions of Knuckles like we've seen of Sonic and Tails, and it would work because they're all based on the same design.
Scourge, as I said, could just as easily be another Hedgehog character instead of a recolored Sonic. It's the same principle with the Echidnas-like Finitevus (seriously, let's get back on topic-this thing is about Finitevus.)
All I'm saying is that I don't want to see so much uniformity in terms of design. It makes the comic a whole lot more conservative and formula. The argument that the animal characters look the same because they are of the same species is still weak. You could still come up with a lot of different designs for one animal and still make it recognizable (regardless if it's Archie or Sega's doing).
Finitevus is made up of the exact same construction as Knuckles, only sprinkled with details and a different color. He isn't unique or original.
I have a difficult time understanding why anyone would like a character that looks practically the same, or even a character [Scourge] who is the same as another person?
To be fair, on the same token you guys are using, all humans look the same as well.
