Dirk pleaded:
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This topic is not about the extent to which this comic should draw influence from SatAM, the games, or any other universe. If you'd like to discuss that, then go ahead and make a topic about it. Frankly, I'm tired of it coming up every couple of weeks in topics where it doesn't belong
So here it is!
Personally I say it should take some influence from the games (which it already does anyhow), since otherwise why pay license fees for a video game character?
I have been thinking about the question "why can't Archie be Archie." I believe it tries to be itself(as much as Sega allows), the problem is it hasn't worked for many fans. Over the years, the writers have made decisions that many fans have not accepted, which is why they are not trusted by a lot of fans. As I have said earlier, I think the best way to go is to have Sonic X be more Sega influenced(I understand that there is already a lot of Sega influence in Sonic X). The regular comic can be more Sat a.m. influenced, with focus more of the Sat a.m. characters with their relationships to each other being more intact and getting even stronger, which is what I think a lot of Sat a.m. fans wanted the comic to do when the show went off the air. Of course, I understand that either comic cannot be a 100% carbon copy of each canon.
Sonic X can't incorporate anything that wasn't on the show, and essentially anything post-Battle didn't enter X's canon, so Archie is where most of the recent game happenings need to be expressed.
Not to mention some of the past game areas that weren't previously touched upon. I mean, there have been several references to some of the older games as well as the new ones.
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The regular comic can be more Sat a.m. influenced
But should it be? SatAm's a long-dead cartoon that most of the readers, due to being young, won't have seen. (Until recently, that is - the DVD boxset makes it more likely they've seen it)
Archie draws from every single Sonic canon that exists. It always has. It always will. It's a "crazy" mix of every Sonic universe. I personally like it that way.
They don't have any of the characters from the english comic, right?
I don't understand Sega stance on the Sonic X comic. The anime was almost completely based off the latest Sonic game storylines. So why stop at the anime? The Sonic X comic should continue that trend and have stories based off Sonic Rush, Shadow, Sonic 2k6, etc.
Who is to say that younger fans wouldn't like, or get used more of a Sat a.m. style.
DC, do not discuss relationships.
I think as much as some people like their particular favorite spin on Sonic best, there is no getting around the fact that the Sega games are the core of the franchise. The assertion that some fans make, that the comics should actually avoid game elements, is ridiculous. Because that's Sonic.
I do love the fact that the comic incorporates other universes. That's fantastic. I think the incorporation of SatAM elements is one of the best things about the book. But the comic should definitely not stay grounded in SatAM. It should be grounded in the Sonic character, and the Sonic character is grounded in Sega with other universes thrown into the mix.
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They don't have any of the characters from the english comic, right?
There's legal reasons for that - IIRC, Egmont didn't bother getting the creators to sign a contract stating Egmont/SoE owned the rights to newly-created characters, so technically the creators own them.
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They don't have any of the characters from the english comic, right?
True, but I always considered the "evil" Super Sonic a nod to STC along with the character cameos during Home and Return to Angel Island.
There were cameos in RtAI? (Aside from Finivetus looking a bit like Doctor Zachary)
Yes, Tekno can be found in a couple diner scenes.
With all the reality-travelling Tekno and Amy did via the Eternity Ring, that could probably be canon with STC... 
That was a fun month. Much controversy.
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That was a fun month. Much controversy
yeah, i miss those times......hahahaha
Sorry about earlier. I agree with Dirk that the Sat a.m. elements are the best parts of the comic book, it is why I still even care about the book, and I care about the Sat a.m. characters and what happens to them.
If Sat a.m. fans seem disrespectful(and even come across as annoying at times I admit) to Sega and Archie, it is because fans feel like they are disrespected at times. I know there are times I feel like I am a second class fan, and even not wanted, by what both Sega and Archie do. Understand that it is hard seeing the things I care about treated like trash at times.
DC, any fan of any Sonic universe can make those claims. In fact, anyone can make those claims about any facet of life if someone was to get real philosophical. Personally, people should realize that Archie is Archie--which isn't like or bound to any other Sonic universe no matter how many parallels exist between it and any other Sonic universe. It doesn't matter how much Archie borrows (or has borrowed) from another Sonic universe either (as it always has/will), Archie will never be like any of the universes from which it borrows/borrowed. It's the inability of some people to come to terms with that OR to resent Archie for that reason that is why Archie is one of the more "hated" universes. Some people want it to be something it isn't (on several different Sonic universe fronts) instead of accepting it for what it is.
True, True Red, at the same time it seems to me that some fans want others to passively accept anything that Archie does to the characters. My problem has more to do with how Archie treats the characters at times than the book being 100% like Sat a.m. As much as I like Sonic Sat a.m. there I admit there was room for improvement and things that I would change. Also, I admit I probably do blow things out of proportion at times.
It depends on how one views the characters.
Sally (as one example) gets a zillion complaints about being "out of character" when 99% of the time she isn't. She's just doing something someone may not like. There's a huge difference between the two things. Everything goes in more than one direction.
Many fans blow a zillion things out of proportion and those events are too numerous to even attempt to mention. Of course, there's really no point in mentioning them either because by the time #175 comes out, there will be a new fresh set of things being blown out of proportion anyway.
My main problem with the comic book is that it tries too hard to accomodate every canon...making the focus of the stories kinda scattershot. One minute, you've got stories focusing on Sonic and the FFs...the next he's working with his Sega cast. We constantly get homages to modern games in the form of Extreme Gear and chao, and they're not necessary. Archie should find its own direction and go for its own canon, becuase the status quo is getting harder to enjoy.
And as long as it's tied to Sega's character and Sega's licensing agreement, it doesn't have that kind of autonomy.
I'd prefer that the Archie comic not take too much influence from the game canon. If this trend continues, the Archie comic could phase out the FF's and just have the Jap cast.
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Archie should find its own direction and go for its own canon,
It does.
Name a canon that has King Elias, Queen Alicia, Mina, Geoffrey, Drago, Fearsome Foursome/Destructix, Mammoth Mogul, Zonic, Tails as the "Chosen One," Knuckles as the "Savior/Avatar," Nate Morgan, Colin Kintobor (and the many others), Hope Kintobor, Merlin Prower, Amadeus/Rosemary Prower, Fiona, Downunda, Albion, Echidnaopolis/Dingo City, etc.
Archie has its own direction. It has its own canon. It just adds bits from every other Sonic canon in existence, but it does it in its own way. Hence, why many "game fans" hate Archie for "messing up the characters" and many "SatAM fans" hate Archie for "messing up the characters." Archie, at the end of the day, does what it wants to do and goes against what those who don't take Archie for what it is--a mixture of everything with a different spin--get upset.
For every person that complains that there is "too much" of something, there's another person complaining that there "isn't enough" of the same thing. The funny thing is that while there's some listening to that stuff on certain issues (definitely not on the minor ones), for the most part, Archie is just doing its own thing. It's only restrictions would be on whatever ground rules have been set since Sonic isn't Archie's property. Those ground rules haven't affected much or else Archie wouldn't be what it is now. For example, complaints about Robotnik's "looks" (and most other characters) are extremely minor & totally unimportant--and anyone who actually believes that's important, I'd like to know if you'd read the comic if Robotnik had his SatAM look but the only characters in the comic were the Sega cast; because if "design" is more important than story/characters, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Mountains are made out of molehills a lot of times--and personally, Archie mirrors SatAM more than any other Sonic universe so we SatAM fans have the least to complain about with regards to representation. SatAM doesn't exist without the games, nor does Archie. Archie acknowledges the games sometimes--why care so much as to lose perspective about Archie itself: Archie is its own canon no matter how much it references other Sonic universes, including SatAM or the games.
First of all, Alex, that's a racial slur and using it as an abbreviation for "Japanese" is frowned upon. If you'd like to abbreviate, "JPN" is more appropriate. Furthermore, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Rouge, Shadow, and the Sega crew are not the "Japanese" cast, nor have they ever been, any more than Sonic is. Like Sonic, all of those characters were designed not for the Japanese market but for the international market.
As for True Red, I agree with much of what you're saying. But design certainly is important. Remember "Titan Tails?" It was very hard to take him seriously because his design was awful.
As for the relationship between the comic and the games, it's a lot like the relationship between Smallville and the Superman comics. The show Smallville is a separate canon with its own characters and situations, with new concepts and new takes on old concepts. It's certainly its own thing and the variation is a lot of fun. But at the core, it's an adaptation of the Superman mythos, and so there are going to be a lot of Superman elements in there, as well as other DC comic characters. And sometimes it will draw form other canons (there are specific references to the Superman film canon, for instance), but it has a canon all its own.
The Sonic comic is like that. It has a canon of its own, but it is part of a franchise and it must stay true to that. It draws from the games and from other Sonic canons. It's always awesome when Smallville brings in DC comic characters and story elements, and I often love it when the Sonic comic brings in game elements.
Ugh, bad memories. I hated that look, but it didn't affect my opinion of the story (which wasn't that high anyway).
I look at designs the same way I look at pencilers--some are more pleasing than others. But it's the story that matters. I care a zillion times more about what the writer is doing than the artwork. I'll comment on designs because I don't like everything (and so I enjoyed Amy talking about Fiona's horrible outfit in #172), but dwelling on that beyond a minor discussion is not something I can ever do. It's just not important to me similar to the cover of a comic or book. If it's nice, great. If it's not, I just can't care.
Archie was at it's best when the games were pretty much on hiatus, in between Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure. There were only a handful of un-successful to moderately-successful sonic spin-offs during that time. 1995-1999. during that time archie had the amaziong knuckles solo comic, endgame, ixis naugus, enerjak, mammoth mogul, the birth and death of the super specials, the downunda freedom fighters, the chaotix were actually cool and important, etc etc. Archie had freer reign then.
on a simliar note, does anyone have a list of comics based off the games?
thank you kindly 
Sonic Spinball (#6)
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (#13) (also combined with Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles for the Sonic-Quest mini-series)
Sonic & Knuckles (Sonic & Knuckles Special, and partly the SonicQuest miniseries)
Sonic CD (#25)
SegaSonic the Hedgehog (Knuckles #26-28)
Sonic Triple Trouble (Sonic Triple Trouble Special)
Knuckles' Chaotix (Knuckles' Chaotix Special)
Sonic 3D Blast (Sonic Blast Special)
Sonic Adventure (Super Special #13, and issues 79-84)
Sonic Shuffle (#92)
Sonic Adventure 2 (#98)
Sonic Rush (#160 & #161)
Sonic Riders (#163 & #164)
Shadow The Hedgehog (#171) (Shadow's origins)
Sonic Rush Adventure (#180)
Sonic and the Secret Rings (free comic made for the game)
Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood (#191)
Sonic Unleashed (#193)
Thanks!
"Sonic Adventure 2 (#98)
Sonic Rush (#160 & #161)"
Dang, look at that gap! huge! what is that, 5 years?
ah, and these were the glory years i was talking about earlier:
"Sonic CD (#25)
SegaSonic the Hedgehog (Knuckles #26-28)
Sonic Triple Trouble (Sonic Triple Trouble Special)
Knuckles' Chaotix (Knuckles' Chaotix Special)
Sonic 3D Blast (Sonic Blast Special)
Sonic Adventure (Super Special #13, and issues 79-84)"
the 4 years between Sonic CD (the last major 2D Sonic game) and Sonic Adventure. In those sensational years you just had the odd special to commemorate a B- or C-list game, or as with segasonic, a backup feature 6 years after it came out!
Look at all these in the last 3 years:
"Sonic Rush (#160 & #161)
Sonic Riders (#163 & #164)
Shadow The Hedgehog (#171) (Shadow's origins)
Sonic Rush Adventure (#180)
Sonic and the Secret Rings (free comic made for the game)
Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood (#191)
Sonic Unleashed (#193) "
that's a ton in a short time. I definitely think now the comics are taking more leaves from sonic's videogame books, so to speak. The re-introduction of videogame-style Heavy and Bomb (huzzah!), the introduction of Bark and Bean (yeah), and adaptions of near every single Sonic game as it comes out (aw...) make this quite apparant. Although i love the new Heavy Bomb and FINALLY bark and bean's intro (probably to coincide with Sonic Gems), I dunno if i like Achie's current direction.....
..Man...ALl I cna say is Archie Cannon is awsome..I mean it draws the best elements from the cartoons and games & mixes it with their own origional ideas...It doesn't get much better then that...& Alex...THe FF & other archie characters are important to te series...You can't just phase them out...Besides the Japanese cast alone would'nt last very long...I mean look at sonic X its Segasonic..sorta...and the Comic only lasted 40 issues. (Thankfully being replaced with the Awsome Sonic Universe series.) but yea...nothing wrong with archie continuity....Its a perfect blend of Cartoons, games & origionallity...so....Yea.
The word is 'canon'.
I'm still waiting for Metal Knuckles and Tails Doll to show up. I mean, come on, why should Sonic get all the evil robotic counterparts?
Dirk pleaded:
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This topic is not about the extent to which this comic should draw influence from SatAM, the games, or any other universe. If you'd like to discuss that, then go ahead and make a topic about it. Frankly, I'm tired of it coming up every couple of weeks in topics where it doesn't belong
So here it is!
Personally I say it should take some influence from the games (which it already does anyhow), since otherwise why pay license fees for a video game character?
It already does take influence from many continuities "anyhow"; the comics seem to be a "crossover continuity" where they mix ideas from different continuities and add their own. As for how much of each, or how much of their own... well obviously that's up to them, but I'm not even sure what I would prefer, probably because I haven't been following the comic in years...
Though I think the difference between the influence from the games and the influence from the non-games is that the non-game continuities are sort of "spinoff" continuities, that are partly a result of the games, but not entirely; it's interesting to wonder, if the Sonic idea didn't become a popular video game, which of the ideas used for ArchieSonic or other continuities have been used elsewhere, in some comic or cartoon of some mainstream game series other than Sonic? I guess you couldn't really know for sure what would happen if things turned out differently, since you can't really "test" for that...
