Hmm... I think it's going way downhill, but only since Songoose. There was Songoose, my most hated story period, where Nack is greatly humiliated and that abusive Ash the Mongoose coming out on top, then there was the second Shadow ark, with the Metal Sonic army, Eggman, Shadow, And Sonic getting the drop on Shadow and getting an undeserved medal. After that, Evil Ant gets his clock cleaned, and Sonic... well, I can't talk relasionships, so I'll leave it there. After that comes Birthday Bash, where Evil Sonic gets supercharged into a superlame-o named Scourge. Next, There was TDS, and the start of Ian's overboard character snuffing. The Ancient Walkers, Mecha, The Egg grape prisoners, Connery, the weasel trio, and a few other villains captured by Eggman all fell victim to this "cleanup" . So, the next issue featered the interrigation of Rouge the Bat, who unsympateticly tells us how the egg grape victims died, while Sonic and Scourge once again duked it out. In the last story ark, M25L was continued in a rather lame ending. And, finally, The most recent story, "Order From Chaos", The nanites cuse trouble and more characters bite it.

In one word: Bleah.

And yes, nobody asked for a summary, I just did it because I wanted to.

I pretty much lost interest in the comic during the Sonic Adventure adaption, and began collecting again at #102. The comic was still pretty boring until Ian showed up. Sure, the constant deaths are a bit much and "The Darkest Storm" was a stinker IMO, but the rest has been rather enjoyable.

I feel that the comic did go downhill after ~120 or so. Yes, Songoose was rubbish and #150 too. But I feel that Ian is doing a pretty good job cleaning up the loose ends. UDC, you probably feel it more than most because you have Nack in your sig. Me, i've never been a huge fan although I love moral ambiguity.

What exactly do you dislike about the premise "Order from Chaos"?

And Elias, do your comments take the issues post #160 into account?

Well, I haven't Read order From Chaos, but I just heard that more characters die. A couple character deaths over quite a few stories is good, but Ian just has too many.

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Now, I used to be a HUGE Sonic The Hedgehog Comic reader. I started at #91.

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That's typically the time we refer to as the dark age of the comic.

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BTW, "Jumped the Shark" means when a storyline goes downhill, and it's no longer interesting or enjoyable.

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Not exactly. Jumping the shark is not a general term for going downhill. Jumping the shark is one particular moment where it becomes very clear that the TV show (or comic in this case) has strayed permanently and irredeemably from its original premise. It's supposed to be a negative term. In that way, you can argue that the comic jumped the shark at #50, by invalidating its own premise, but most people view that as a positive step in the comic's evolution (even if the story itself came out as a mess).

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I believe than when they jumped a year into the future, they jumped the shark. Everything is so, SO different it's like a whole new series. Not way past cool anymore.

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I disagree. In my opinion, it's not different enough. Nothing has changed significantly, and what has changed has been undone.

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And how did they celebrate #150 episodes? They brought back the bad Sonic and had him make out with a bunch of chicks.
OOH! EPIC!!

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Nobody claimed 150 was supposed to be an epic issue. I thought it was a nice change from the whole OMG HUGE Xorda thing. I also found it enjoyable, probably the best story Ken Penders has done in recent years (which isn't saying much).

Anyhow, right now the comic is in a transitional period. Everything Ian has done is to tie up all the old plot points that have been sitting there. There's a definite direction this is all going in, and Ian has promised that this transition won't last much longer. The current storyline I find excellent.

For the past three or four years before Ian got on board, all the comic has been doing was introducing new, lame plot points. Now what it's doing is having those new, lame plot points cancel each other out, simultaneously taking out some of the old, lame plot points, and bringing back some of the old, awesome plot points what we've WANTED to see. I see nothing wrong with that.

In conclusion, MY opinion is that the comic jumped the shark with issue #100, and Ian has been fixing the damage.

You haven't read the story... so who exactly dies? Maybe you're being just a little pre-emptive here?

Besides, the cast needed trimming. There were probably more named echidnas than characters of every other species combined, and more side-characters only take away from focus on the main cast. We were told the Ancient Walkers were gonna die ages ago, so they had to bite it at some point.

And personally, I like the new Scourge. He actually has some identity now, and there can't be any more instances of anything like "Evil Sonic poses as Normal Sonic to hit on several girls! Ono!"

Ooh, I hate it when people disect replies >_<

Anyhoo, no, I don't believe I made it to #160. My bro and I called the whole thing off and stopped ordering subscriptions at #155. Tho I did go to the mall and read the one where Sonic at a birthday and bad guys showed up and with the help of Shadow he beat them.
=__=
I really got no clue what's going on right now. If they're killing off all the old Cartoon characters, then that really sucks, but probably necessary.
With all the cruddy Sonic games coming out, and SEGA forcing Archie to make a bunch of adaptions, well...cruddy games make for cruddy adaptions.

When you say "Scourge" in my head I think "Mr. Scrooge" =P.

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Ooh, I hate it when people disect replies >_<

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Well, it avoids confusion. I'd like people to know what particular passage of text I'm replying to.

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Anyhoo, no, I don't believe I made it to #160. My bro and I called the whole thing off and stopped ordering subscriptions at #155.

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That's a pity, because #160 is where it started getting good again.

I agree that most stuff from issues #89 to #159 was generally pretty bad.

With the very noticeable exception of the RtAI arc, Dirk.

Elias, it looks like you read #161 (which is like a homage to the early comic IMO, and possibly less interesting to some). IMO you dropped it at exactly the wrong time - just before Ian came abroad. As Dirk said, it really starts getting good past #160, and if you read those it might make you feel like getting into the comic again.

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With all the cruddy Sonic games coming out, and SEGA forcing Archie to make a bunch of adaptions, well...cruddy games make for cruddy adaptions.

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I do agree about that the Sonic Riders/Rush adaptation really didn't do anything for me at all.

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There were probably more named echidnas than characters of every other species combined,

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Actually this _is_ interesting. Does anyone have some sort of tally? But I would disagree with your statement that side characters take away from the main cast. If anything, i'd say that these characters make Mobius a much richer place to live in. They don't necessarily have to appear in every other issue or be ruthlessly cut down and turned into fertilizer - just knowing they're there's enough. That and an occasional look in ala Ties That Bind.

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With the very noticeable exception of the RtAI arc, Dirk.

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Agreed. I meant as a general trend. There were other exceptions as well.

As for echidna characters, you need to understand a little of the book's history. For more than three years, Sonic and Knuckles existed as two seperate books, each with its own cast. Sonic had a diverse cast, which was appropriate for it. Knuckles had mostly echidnas, and it was an excellent book. The issue came when Knuckles's book ended and its cast was merged into Sonic's.

Of course, a bunch of echidnas are now dead. It's a pity, but I think it will work out well that way.

I myself did'nt like the Knuckles book at all. I ended up having to force myself to read it. So much money I'll never get back. =

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If they're killing off all the old Cartoon characters, then that really sucks, but probably necessary.

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They're not. A lot of people who have been killed off were less-important comic-created characters, such as three weasels who were never even named in print and Mecha, who wasn't exactly a popular addition.

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But I would disagree with your statement that side characters take away from the main cast. If anything, i'd say that these characters make Mobius a much richer place to live in. They don't necessarily have to appear in every other issue or be ruthlessly cut down and turned into fertilizer - just knowing they're there's enough. That and an occasional look in ala Ties That Bind.

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I didn't say that they take away from the main cast; I said it takes away individual focus. There's only so much room to tell a story, and when you have to take into account all these extras, the focus gets spread out. For instance, if you have to have ten characters on a mission in a single story (and in a lot of these cases, there's no good reason for many of them to be excluded all the time), it's likely a good deal of them will get little if any dialogue and thus display that much less personality or growth. There are tons of characters with the potential to have wonderful insight and developement - but if there are fourty of them, how can you devote each of them that time when there's a limited amount of space and time to work with?

Ya know it's funny.
My screen name, Elias, is based off Elias Acorn.
I got into the series at around #91- and Elias had a huge role in that era of Sonic Comics. He didn't want to rule, he wanted to be a free spirit have a simple life. That's what got me interested in the comic. Elias Acorn! And then he shows up and takes his role as King Acorn.
"WTF?!" I thought. My favorite character COMPLETELY changed.

I put it down at the wrong time eh? That really sucks >_<
BUT, if these things have been changed, then I'll agree it doesn't suck anymore

a) The covers don't look so childish and awkwardly colorful

b) The dialoge isn't garbage ("We have to stop Dr. Eggman!" "No worries dude, I can handle it!" "Aw gee Sonic you're the best." "But I hate you, Sonic! WHY DON'T YOU LIKE ME?!?!?!" "The worlds about to be destroyed Sally, stfu..." "The world is ALWAYS about to be destroyed, and yet you still don't luvv mwee...I HATE YOU!" "Darnit. Where's Mina- I'm gonna go make out with her now." "What about Eggman?" "Tails! This is serious! I'm having an emotional breakdown right now. The world can wait.")

..ok I may have gotten carried away but eh- that happens.

c) The characters don't look so bland. There was this drawer that worked there...let me remember who it was...
I think it was J. Axer. Yeah, J. Axer. He was AMAZING. If he's back and is doing more pencilling, the series will be MUCH better.
Or at least someone like him. a LOT like him.

d) No more of this Bunnie and Antione nonsense. I dunno if it was resolved or not, but what was up with those two??

e) Kill Mina the Mongoose. Just. Kill. Her.

f) Have the Sextuplets back in action. I miss the good ol days with the Freedom Fighters. Now all these losers like Amy Rose, creepy-turtle-man, Fiona Fox, and others have joined in on the fun, and that's not fun!

g) Last and MOST IMPORTANTLY, have Sonic stop being a goody goody and have more of an ATTITUDE, like he had in #97! That was totally kickass.

If these 7 issues have been resolved, then I'll agree that it doesn't suck anymore ^_^

I believe the comic jumped the shark ages ago, trust me. I've been keeping tabs on it since roughly #20. 90 and onwards made me lose interest, and it just got really shoddy. I'd pick up an issue every now and then, but I only really got back into the action when Sonic met Tails' parents on the Bem planet. At this point in time, I had no idea about the intergalatic war thing with the Bem, Xorda and Mobius, so I was all like "WTF?" Lucky for me, I had just gotten back to the comic at the point where it didn't matter for me if I knew about it or not, as they just dropped the subject.

I enjoyed the "Home" 4 parter, and "Return to Angel Island," and Mecha grew on me as Robotnik's henchwoman, so I was displeased when they killed her off, too.

However, there were also small little stories in the more recent issues (130 onwards) that I didn't like. Tommy, as an example. I didn't know he had been sacrificed at an earlier point, and when I was introduced to him, this was at his return as the cyborg, I had an instant dislike of his character because it was way too bland.

With the start of #150, to me it seemed as if to bring about the start of a new era. We knew Ken Penders would be disappearing shortly, and I for one couldn't wait. But, I can't deny the fact that seeing Evil Sonic pose as Sonic and ruin his rep around Knothole with the ladies, that put a grin on my face, and it seemed very nostalgic, as I hadn't seen my loveably Anti-Sonic in ages.

Though, as I said it felt as though it was the start of a new era, and Ken Penders was going, to me it seemed as though he wanted to get a whole bucketload of his work onto the pages of the comic, and everything seemed way too rushed for my liking. Soon enough, Penders was gone, and Ian was there, with a brand new start.

To me, Ian and Yardly were the tagteam partners of the Sonic comic. Ian's stories seemed to go hand-in-hand with the way Yardly drew. It was almost magical, and brought a tear to my eye.

Axer did reappear as an artist in a back-up story. It just so happened to be a real shoddy Romy Chacon back-up story, which Ian tried to patch together. But it still failed. =(

And Bunnie and Antoine are back together now, FYI.

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As for echidna characters, you need to understand a little of the book's history. For more than three years, Sonic and Knuckles existed as two seperate books, each with its own cast. Sonic had a diverse cast, which was appropriate for it. Knuckles had mostly echidnas, and it was an excellent book. The issue came when Knuckles's book ended and its cast was merged into Sonic's.

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I understand that, but still, over sixty named echidnas (including minor one-shots) seems a bit excessive. =P Especially since many of them weren't really developed while at the same time more supposedly prominent characters (such as the Chaotix) didn't get a ton of developement themselves.

a) I think you'll agree that the cover of #166 is pretty sophisticated:

b) The entire dialogue for #165 is as far removed from garbage as is possible. No really. Mammoth Mogul even makes a *joke* about verbosity.

c) Tracy Yardley's been doing a bang up job lately.

d) #168 explores Bunny and Antoine a little more. But I'm not sure quite what you were asking?

e) I strongly suspect we won't be seeing too much of the Songoose in the near future. She really isn't too relevant to the current developments, and I think Ian is content to let her be the distant idoru.

f) I don't think Fiona'll be abandoned as easily as that, and Rotor looks set to take more of a back-seat role. But it does look like Ian wishes to return to the more "pure" kind of storytelling you miss.

g) As for Sonic's attitude, well, I would say Ian has a knack for teasing sparks out of characters. We'll just have to wait.

hehehe. The cover of #166 looks like Shadow and Sonic finally get together in the future =P.

I've heard that they reused all of the old villians like Ixis and Mammoth. this pisses me off!! Not only has Mammoth ALREADY "come back from the dead" about six times now, but he sucks as a villian anyway.
Ixis on the other hand...well, ok I'll admit he rocks as an evil villian, and it's cool that he's come back.

And who's this Ian guy? Was he the one who replaced that really cool guy who's been doing the comics for like, seven years? I remember one day on the "off-panel", this new dude came out of the blue and I was all "THAT'S NOT HIM!"

Oh, and I should make up for what I said about Mina. I thought she was actually a real cool chick in the 90's. But now she's overused and underdeveloped. blah.

I'm going to be different and say that the comic jumped the shark around issue 51. I didn't care for all the drama, and the "Mobius World Tour" arc was less than entertaining. The series begin picking up again for the debut of Eggman, then went downhill after the Sonic Adventure arc...HARD. I found the comic quit being interesting until around 110 or so, when the stand-alone stories started coming back. Things steadily picked up until 160, when Ian and Tracy debuted on the book and it started going uphill faster than ever.

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all the comic has been doing was introducing new, lame plot points. Now what it's doing is having those new, lame plot points cancel each other out, simultaneously taking out some of the old, lame plot points

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Which just means the comic is still using lame plot points that nobody cared about and could have been ignored, and been doing so from #160-69 (assuming they're all gone by #170).

I fondly remember how Garth Ennis got round the massively lame plot of the Punisher being turned into an angel who fought demons for Heaven - a few narrative captions saying "Tried it. Didn't like it. Told them where to stick it", done over panels of Frank being back-to-basics. Because nobody wanted to see more of the lame plot points.

*wasn't there already a topic with this same name like a year ago?* deja vu.

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Nobody claimed 150 was supposed to be an epic issue. I thought it was a nice change from the whole OMG HUGE Xorda thing. I also found it enjoyable, probably the best story Ken Penders has done in recent years (which isn't saying much).

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well i don't think #150 was good by any stretch of the means, but sadly you are right that it was penders' best work in recent years.

i don't think the comics going down hill at all, and no i'm not reffering to ian becoming the head writer. i could honestly care less if he was or not. i personally wanted karl bollers to be the solo writer, he could've done just as well if not better than ian.

the one thing i do like about ian is that with #168 is that it proves that he's thinking big. not on stories like #150 or songoose. but on a much larger scale. which is good.

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I fondly remember how Garth Ennis got round the massively lame plot of the Punisher being turned into an angel who fought demons for Heaven - a few narrative captions saying "Tried it. Didn't like it. Told them where to stick it", done over panels of Frank being back-to-basics. Because nobody wanted to see more of the lame plot points.

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And that's precisely what Ian did with GBU by saying that Ivan Kintobor was really dead and Isaac was malfunctioning.

But he can't do that with every plot point. Ever heard of "continuity?" Instead, Ian's taking all of those lame plot points and combining them to be dealt with as a cohesive whole.

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But he can't do that with every plot point. Ever heard of "continuity?"

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Yes - it's something that won't be affected by ignoring Anonymous (who was a plot device unusued for nearly thirty issues), the Spider-Ninjas (who hadn't been around in nearly fifty issues and nobody really cared about), the Sword of Acorns (written out) and the Source (could easily be said "blown up with Robotropolis" and had no bearing on the plot for ages), or Sir Connery (appeared once and he wasn't important then or remembered by people).

You could ignore all that and Sonic continuity would carry on regardless because none of it was important or needed to be brought back in order to be removed.

He couldn't ignore Anonymous because fans were still asking about him all the time, and Ken's final arc confusingly hinted that the Metal Sonic troopers had been activated by some as-yet-unnamed foe (obviously anonymous.

He couldn't ignore the Sword and the Spider Ninjas because it doesn't make sense: giving such a mystical item to a clan of somewhat evil ninjas doesn't solve either problem, it just causes more problems. The sword's ultimate fate was never that conclusive.

Sir Connery didn't need to be brought back at all, but Ian thought it would be cool to take an existing background character and give him a supporting role. Personally, I agree with that.

In any case, you're saying that leaving these issues ignored effectively eliminates them, but it doesn't. It simply leaves them on the back burner for some other writer to pick up later on down the road. And that's no good. Ian's been doing the comic a great service by eliminating these loose ends instead of pretending they don't exist as you seem to prefer.

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b) The dialoge isn't garbage ("We have to stop Dr. Eggman!" "No worries dude, I can handle it!" "Aw gee Sonic you're the best." "But I hate you, Sonic! WHY DON'T YOU LIKE ME?!?!?!" "The worlds about to be destroyed Sally, stfu..." "The world is ALWAYS about to be destroyed, and yet you still don't luvv mwee...I HATE YOU!" "Darnit. Where's Mina- I'm gonna go make out with her now." "What about Eggman?" "Tails! This is serious! I'm having an emotional breakdown right now. The world can wait." )

..ok I may have gotten carried away but eh- that happens.

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Cheesy garbage diolouge? we got loads of it now. But I just can't think of any examples at the 'mo.

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c) The characters don't look so bland. There was this drawer that worked there...let me remember who it was...
I think it was J. Axer. Yeah, J. Axer. He was AMAZING. If he's back and is doing more pencilling, the series will be MUCH better.
Or at least someone like him. a LOT like him.
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You will be happy to know that there are currently NO plans for her. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. etc. etc. And that makes me hate the direction that this comic is going even more.

Baicly, it's not bad anymore. It's HORRIBE.

Wait a minute... It keeps editing my quotes! What is going on?

No J Axer at ALL?
You serious?? Why the hell would they do that?
Axer was their BEST artist. J did so insanley good at drawing the characters.
I remember, in the 6th Grade, I took a Sonic comic to school, and started tracing all the pictures that Axer did. It was the one where Tails and Amy were in school an' stuff?

And what about #98 when Spaz did an ENTIRE story? that was INSANE! I see Spaz has been doing more covers lately, but will he be doin' any artwork in there?

Axer left on his own. Archie doesn't control who decides to work for them and who doesn't--unless of course they fire them. But most of the time, if someone isn't working for Archie anymore, they chose to leave.

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He couldn't ignore Anonymous because fans were still asking about him all the time

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Why does that mean he can't ignore Anonymous? Lots of fans have asked for lots of things.

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Ken's final arc confusingly hinted that the Metal Sonic troopers had been activated by some as-yet-unnamed foe

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Ian has brought back older villains and is currently bigging up Finivetus as a major threat. They could easily have been put forward as doing a number of the Metal Sonics (or, since he was going to make Snively turn to the dark side again, say Snively dun it).

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He couldn't ignore the Sword and the Spider Ninjas

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They hadn't been in the title for fifty issues and had never been mentioned since. Can easily just leave them in limbo - how many people would go "cor, I really wish they'd go back and deal with the Spider-Ninjas and what they're up to"?

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Sir Connery didn't need to be brought back at all, but Ian thought it would be cool to take an existing background character and give him a supporting role.

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There's bloody loads of existing background characters.

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In any case, you're saying that leaving these issues ignored effectively eliminates them, but it doesn't.

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Sure it does. If they never show up again, they effectively don't exist and are forgotten about.

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It simply leaves them on the back burner for some other writer to pick up later on down the road.

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Why would another writer later down the road give a crap about an ignored plot point that occured in one issue multiple years ago? If a new writer shows up in, I dunno, issue 200 or something, are they really going to think "let's bring back the Ninja-Spiders and do a story about what they're doing with the Sword, almost ninety issues after they last appeared!"?

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Ian's been doing the comic a great service by eliminating these loose ends

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By spending up until #170, the best part of a year, tying up lame plots most people didn't like the first time round?

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If a new writer shows up in, I dunno, issue 200 or something, are they really going to think "let's bring back the Ninja-Spiders and do a story about what they're doing with the Sword, almost ninety issues after they last appeared!"?

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Very likely, yes.

Perhaps you think leaving loose ends dangling while introducing new ones is all right. After all, that's what Ken and Karl did for years. But as a writer myself, I call that "crappy storytelling."

Anyway, it seems some people just won't be happy no matter what happens. The comic is in a transitional period, and I personally like where it seems to be heading, so I plan to enjoy the ride.

I have to go with Dirk here. Leaving plot points ignored doesn't get rid of the fact they happened. It's just lazy on the writer's part. If you start up a story, finish it. Besides, Ian's tying up several plot points in very cool ways (Sonic #168).

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Very likely, yes.

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Why? Why are they going to do that?

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Perhaps you think leaving loose ends dangling while introducing new ones is all right.

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It's a lot preferably to wasting most of a year tying up loose ends most people didn't give a cack about the first time round and, in some cases, only got one story in one issue (Anonymous was only five pages!) years ago.

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The comic is in a transitional period

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And it doesn't need to be. It could easily have just shot forward doing its own new thing in #160 (or #162 to keep the anniversary story)

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Leaving plot points ignored doesn't get rid of the fact they happened. It's just lazy on the writer's part. If you start up a story, finish it.

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Ian didn't start them.

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Why? Why are they going to do that?

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Because that's the way comics work, sadly, especially this one.

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It's a lot preferably to wasting most of a year tying up loose ends most people didn't give a cack about the first time round and, in some cases, only got one story in one issue (Anonymous was only five pages!) years ago.

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I'd like to see you demonstrate that "most people" didn't care to see these issues resolved. Good luck with that.

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Ian didn't start them.

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It doesn't matter what Ian started. We are speaking of the comic's story as a WHOLE, and I agree with him. The matter is, if it's written and left dangling, no matter if it's by Ken Penders ten years ago, or Ian today, it should be tied up. As example, it would be very easy for Finetevus to be forgotten and never to be picked up again by a writer. But that has problems; Finitevus is in the middle of planning something, as we've seen in his development for a long while now. We can ignore him, but that doesn't rid the fact that he's developing something. And nuts like me and many others out here will wonder and wonder what Finitevus was planning if it doesn't get picked up on eventually. Eventually the question will need to be answered for the story to progress. The fact of the matter is, if a dangling plot is written, it's already happened and ignoring it will not remove it from the comic book's story. Ian obviously sees this and before progressing on his own thing, he wants to take care of some of the former dangling plots as we've seen in his run so far.

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It's a lot preferably to wasting most of a year tying up loose ends most people didn't give a cack about the first time round and, in some cases, only got one story in one issue (Anonymous was only five pages!) years ago.

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I disagree that it's good to just *abandon* plot points. That's laziness and sloppy storytelling. It's very possible that Ken and Karl created all these loose ends to use in the future - but Ian has his own creative vision for the comic and it makes sense that he's currently solidifying the foundation on which he will tell *his* story. From that perspective, it is *essential* that stuff gets comprehensively squared away.

Elias, it looks like Axer will not have anything to do with Archie in the future, and Spaz just does covers. Truth is though, I don't think Tracy Yardley's art gives much away to either of these two brilliant artists; it's certainly way better than adequate.

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Cheesy garbage diolouge? we got loads of it now.

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I'd really like to know just WHERE this cheesy garbage dialogue of which you speak comes from. Really. If anything, the dialogue of late has successfully abandoned cheesiness without becoming inappropriate/incomprehensible.

What I want to know, is how my quotes got messed up and what all those messages mean, and why it only happened to me. Then agin, I suck at HTML. S-U-C-K. Suck. *points at Sonic Riders dialouge*

cheesy garbage dialogue?

You mean lines like "Tone it down on the volume and the macho", or "You work for me... and I won't kill you?" are cheesy? It seems to me that Ian's done a good job even with potentially disastrous lines like "We're the Babylon rogues". So no, until you mention something specifically groan/wince inducing i'm afraid I remain unconvinced.

As for quotes, it's pretty easy. You just go

text of quote

. And make sure EZCodes is selected.

Hm..I think much of this is a matter of opinion. Especcially the cheesy garbage dialogue =P.
Maybe they're just so pressured every month to complete their quota they're lacking in inspiration. <Shrug>.
OH, and if they're in a "transitional period", it bugs me that they're still in one since issue #131. (I think that was the issue...)

And one more thing! Am I the only one who's getting sick of those previews for the new sonic comics at sonichq that say:
"Sonic fights his toughest apponent yet!"
or
"Sonic teems up with an unlikely ally to defeat his foe!"
or
"COULD THIS BE THE END OF SONIC AS WE KNOW IT?!"
or how about
"In his most climactic battle EVER, Sonic must face off not only two, but THREE villians!"

Seriously, how many epic struggles must our hero fight in?
The cool thing about the "Mobotropolis Reconstruction" era was that it was so different and new, you know? Without Robotnik around they were able to worry about different things, like Ixis(Best villian ever). I really, really liked those comics. But alas, Robotnik returns and they have to go back to Knothole -__-.

But we all have our different opinion on story telling, I guess mine is just waay different.
(DIE EGGMAN DIE...FOREVER)

No, By Sonic Riders Dialouge I meant that I S-U-C-K at HTML.

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"Sonic fights his toughest apponent yet!"
or
"Sonic teems up with an unlikely ally to defeat his foe!"
or
"COULD THIS BE THE END OF SONIC AS WE KNOW IT?!"
or how about
"In his most climactic battle EVER, Sonic must face off not only two, but THREE villians!"

Seriously, how many epic struggles must our hero fight in?

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Weren't you just complaining that StH #150 wasn't epic enough?

Heh, but I mean it S-U-C-K-S at D-I-A-L-O-G-U-E =P

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Hm..I think much of this is a matter of opinion. Especcially the cheesy garbage dialogue =P.
Maybe they're just so pressured every month to complete their quota they're lacking in inspiration. <Shrug>.
OH, and if they're in a "transitional period", it bugs me that they're still in one since issue #131. (I think that was the issue...)

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No, the "rebuilding Mobius" saga was a transitional period. One that was boring and confusing. The comic's actually gotten back to it's basics: The Fight against Robotnik and his Army of Robotic minions.

Only difference is, it's Robotnik 2.0, aka Dr Eggman. But hey, so long as he has the armies of robotic minions and the scheme for world domination, it's the same damn thing to me.

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And one more thing! Am I the only one who's getting sick of those previews for the new sonic comics at sonichq that say:
"Sonic fights his toughest apponent yet!"
or
"Sonic teems up with an unlikely ally to defeat his foe!"
or
"COULD THIS BE THE END OF SONIC AS WE KNOW IT?!"
or how about
"In his most climactic battle EVER, Sonic must face off not only two, but THREE villians!"

Seriously, how many epic struggles must our hero fight in?

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It's called Hype. It's a marketing thing. Nothing to do with the writers.

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The cool thing about the "Mobotropolis Reconstruction" era was that it was so different and new, you know? Without Robotnik around they were able to worry about different things, like Ixis(Best villian ever). I really, really liked those comics. But alas, Robotnik returns and they have to go back to Knothole -__-.

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Like I said above, the Reconstruction era was one big period of "Ok, what the heck are we supposed to be doing now?" with nobody actually having an answer. And none of the new villains really worked right, either.

I always knew Robotnik was going to come back in one form or another, if only because they have to make at least a token attempt at staying true to the games, where Robotnik remains Sonic's #1 Enemy.

That, and let's be honest.. Can we really picture Sonic having any enemy other then Robotnik?

"Robotnik" died in issue #50 =P
Eggman is different, it's not the same Doctor...
I'll admit it: I don't like Dr. Eggman >_<

And I suppose you got a point. The Mobo-Restoration time WAS a huge transition period. But hey- it had Sally, Antione, Sonic, Tails, Rotor, and Bunnie. Sweet.
What I'm tryin' to say is:
The Mobo-Resto had a different scenery, but with a very limited and awesome cast. They all liked each other, too.
But one year later...Sonic and Sally have all this heat between each other (or at least around the time I left), And Sonic and Fiona became an item (W.T.F.)
The same characters can be in any location and it'll still be good (Whether it be space, a desert, or their old city), but it doesn't matter where new/different characters go- it'll still not be the same.

You catch my drift? When was the last time the SIX of our heroes, and ONLY the six of them, went on an adventure or fought for a cause? Without Mina, without Nate, without Fiona, and without Tommy.
That's what I miss. But of course, change is imininent and unescapable. Which is why these things have to die before worse things happen. I enjoyed the comics, A LOT. But if they keep this mush of plot and characters together...

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if they keep this mush of plot and characters together...

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Elias, does this mean that you'll only be satisfied if/when the comic reverts to _just_ the six original SatAM characters going on missions? Do you think that new characters like Fiona simply can't be worked into the narrative without compromising it? What, if so, makes these six specific characters so particularly special that the comic's writers can't match their brilliance?

As for Nate, I believe he was killed a while back, but I have only the vaguest idea.

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And Sonic and Fiona became an item (W.T.F.)

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You can't say that, there's a relationship embargo on!

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"Robotnik" died in issue #50 =P
Eggman is different, it's not the same Doctor...
I'll admit it: I don't like Dr. Eggman >_<

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He's still Robotnik, they just call him Eggman as a nickname. It's a Robotnik from another zone.

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The Mobo-Restoration time WAS a huge transition period. But hey- it had Sally, Antione, Sonic, Tails, Rotor, and Bunnie. Sweet.

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No they didn't - Sonic and Tails buggered off from Knothole to have adventures on their own for yonks, when the FF's were rejoined they had Elias and the Secret Service along as well, and near the end Rotor left.

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Because that's the way comics work, sadly, especially this one.

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No it's not. That's the way bad comics written by complete hacks work - and even then, characters & plots resurfaced usually happened in more than one issue.

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I'd like to see you demonstrate that "most people" didn't care to see these issues resolved.

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So, what, there were a huge amounts of posts and reviews saying "Boy, those Ninja Spiders are really interesting and I hope to see pages & pages more about them! And especially that Sir Connery, he looked really interesting in that unimportant one-off story he had almost ten years ago!" that I completely missed? Because I don't remember that. I remember lots of comments about people moaning about the damn things. Hell, you said just last page that these are lame plots! Why would people care about seeing more of lame plots? They're lame! There is an inherent reason to not want to see them!

Yes, they where lame. Thats why Ian promptly disposed of them.

But like it or not, they where MAJOR plot points left unresolved. The Sword of Acorns was a pretty major part of the comic for a long time, and then...Sally gives it to a bunch of half evil spider ninjas? It needed to be tied up sooner or later, especially since Ian wanted to destroy the remnants of the Source of All. The crown, after all, was still in the continuity. The Source of All was also a major plot point, but Ian quickly did away with it.

Leaving dangling plot threads in your wake, no matter how old, DOES NOT a good story make. Are you sayin we should just forget about the long time fans? Just never touch a plot again because it was stupid, no matter how major it was?

That's poor writing and it makes for a poor universe. Even GREAT comics like the Amazing Spider-man have done stuff like this, revisiting plots from over 20 years ago or more, and either resolving the or bringing them back to the surface.

This comic is one coehesive whole. It's its own world, it's own universe, where everything must come together into that coehesive whole. In other words, plot holes screw the storyline up. Leaving dangling plots and creating new ones at the same time, only to let them dangle for years on end (something both Bollers and Penders are very quilty of) is something the comic has been doing for years. And you know what? That made the comic friggin suck.

Ian can't just get into the comic and do his own thing. That would completely ruin whatever storyline the comic book had. A GOOD writer works off of what he is given, while at the same time forging his own elements and direction. You can't just hop in, ignore everything that just happened and the general direction the comic was working towards. That is just bad writing.

Are you a writer, Rocketboy? You don't seem to understand all that needs to go in to a story and universe.

I said that some of the plots were lame or being treaated lamely IN THE PAST, and I was glad that Ian was un-lamifying them or eliminating them completely.

And, from what I've seen, there's been overwhelming positive response to Ian's work so far except for a few people who don't like it. But as I said earlier, you can't please everyone, and there are some people that you can't please at all.

All I know is that I'm enjoying the comic far more now than I was, say, two years ago, and that's enough for me.

What's so special about having the six freedom fighters?
Imagine the show "Friends". Six main characters right?
Now imagine that they decided to replace Phoebe with some random new chick...let's call her...Sara.
Wouldn't that tick you off?
Or what if Rachel(Fiona) and Chandler(Sonic) decided to have a fling EVEN THOUGH you knew Rachel(Fiona) was meant for Ross(Tails) and Chandler(Sonic) was meant for Monica(Sally)?
...
Eh, Im sure my "Friends" refrences aren't gonna hit a lot of people, and I know people are gonna reply saying "but the sonic continuity isn't a sitcom!"
But being the guy who grew up with SatAM Sonic, they became the basis of what I invisioned Mobius to be, and without that structure of what is "normal" and what is "WTF", it seems too different too me.
Though I strongly understand that SatAM is way over, and most readers would generally like to see more Video Game characters instead of these strange creatures they have no clue about.
("Sally? Who the hell is she? ...waait, I think I saw her in 'Sonic Spinball'...why is she here? Why does Sonic care about HER?")
I've always been more interested in DiC world than the SEGA world, but SEGA controls everything, and now Archie's gotta incorporate a bunch of SEGA characters who eventually eat up space with their own pointless story only to be forgotten in the next issue.
You guys catch my drift tho'? You gotta understand too, that this all just my opinion, I'm sure more people disagree, which is cool. But I'm sure the comic has a cool plot right now (They're doin' the 25 Years Later story again right? I saw it at Waldenbooks), which is cool. Just not what I'd pay money for.