Ian is taking out the crap rather well, but I just hope wading through the sewer Ken and Chacon wrote doesn't kill the book before Ian gets to really do his thing. Archie Sonic is now competing with Sonic X for shelf space.
Some of these lame plot points could have been handled gradually instead of being piled into the book at the same time, especially considering some of them were from before tossed in space, and could easily be explained away by the Robotnik war.
Yes, having pretty much every major non-Robotnik villain team up (Mogul, Ixis, etc.) sounded pretty suspenseful, but then they're just whipped away by Eggman like nothing.
The main lame character I wish he'd killed off or left imprisoned was Sleuth Doggy Dogg. He's... a dog... in a military uniform of some kind? And his name is a horrible celebrity pun (and I normally like puns). I can understand using the Destructix as henchmen for the supporting cast to fight, but even a new 6th thug with actual interesting powers would have been preferable.
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6th thug with actual interesting powers would have been preferable
Well there's the mysterious Dr Finitevus for that eh ;o Let's see where Ian goes with that.
It seems to me, and this is just conjecture, that Ian's more or less done wading through the "sewer" (i'd have chosen a milder word 
). The upcoming Order From Chaos arc looks to be more like Ian's kind of storytelling, like a bridge from KP style to Ian style.
As for Sleuth, does anyone remember his origin? It was just weird looking at #165 and wondering what that dog was doing there. Until I caught on to the joke 
Sleuth Doggy Dog was a former Freedom Fighter, part of an outfit that used to perform deep-cover espionnage on Robotnik. Sleuth himself used to go in disguised as a Swatbot.
...Then, around the time of SonicQuest, he betrayed the Freedom Fighters, selling off his own cell to Robotnik and leading an attack force against Sonic. He was beaten, captured and imprisonned, then later broke out.. Twice.
Sleuth Doggy Dog's been in prison, he's done his time. He's a real gangsta now, dawgs! =O
But, seriously, I'm waiting to see what Ian has up his sleeve. At the moment, I'm glad he's putting the villains away to the side for now, even though the Fearsome Foursom were good... to a point. But, after all this shizzle with A.D.A.M. is over, I want to see some serious coverage of what good ol' Doctor Fin and his partner-in-crime, Scourge.
Anyone here read the first year or two of the comic? Face it, this comic "Jumped the Shark" before it even began! Yeah, there's been some great stuff published in the comic over the years, but I find that looking at any phase of the comic with a critical view and nostolgia ignored, I find plenty of things wrong with it.
So why do I still read it? Not with the hope it'll one day meet my standards - I gave up on that back around issue 125. (Although, so far, Ian hasn't really dissapointed me.) Maninly because I've came to care about the characters, and want to see what they're officially up to. Also, some of the artists are pretty good, and I like to see their work.
...Besides, I've been collecting this series for so long now that to no longer be getting it would just seem strange.... (Sonic was one of the first comic-book series I ever collected, and the only of those first few even still being published. It's also the only comic-book series I have essentially every issue of.)
Oh, and
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As for Nate, I believe he was killed a while back, but I have only the vaguest idea.
Nate was roboticized in issue 100, and was presumably still there when Station Square's computer nuked Robotropolis. Thus, unless some author feels the need to say differently one day, he's now radioactive slag.
While talking about Sleuth, here's another plot holethat was left dangling years ago: Fly Fly Freddy. He was a member of Sleuth's cell that was roboticized when Sleuth defected and used as a secret weapon when Sleuth attacked Sonic around Soniquest. He was dismantled and Sonic promised to return him to normal shortly after. And here it is over 100 issues after the event and there still is no closure. I really don't care if people can't stand seeing any more ancient continuity gaps-- I want this thing resolved. I mean, even Sir Connery was officially written out and he first appeared a few issues after Freddy last did.
Dropped plot point =/= plot hole.
Though, despite that the character had a hideously unimaginative design that doesn't remotely fit in with the other insect characters, the lack of closure given Sonic's line was kinda annoying.
Ian has said he MIGHT bring back Nate someday, and he even has an idea of how he might like to do the story, but since it may never come to pass Nate's official canon status is "Missing, presumed dead."
Weren't people complaining during the Nate era that the comic didn't need another brainiac to clutter it up and take the focus away from Rotor and Tails?
It would be interested to see the things Ian would do with Nate's character.
People may have had another reason to complain then.... EXCEPT that Rotor was gone for most of the time Nate was around. After Rotor came back, Nate was taken out 5 or so issues later. That was a real mockery of justice to his charcter, if you ask me, since he had such a huge effect on Sonic's world. I mean we are talking about the guy who not only is the reason power rings exist, but also taught Robotnik and Uncle Chuck much of what they know about the technology they use today!
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The crown, after all, was still in the continuity.
As a crown, yes. When was the last time before Darkest Storm that its mystical Maguffiness came up?
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The Source of All was also a major plot point, but Ian quickly did away with it.
He didn't need to - it had been under Robotropolis. Robotropolis got nuked to a crater. If he wanted to make sure it was gone, one line and a footnote about it being destroyed with Robotropolis works.
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Are you sayin we should just forget about the long time fans?
How many long-term fans wanted to see it all resolved compared to how many long-term fans didn't? How many compared to the majority of the comic's readers?
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Just never touch a plot again because it was stupid
Yes.
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Even GREAT comics like the Amazing Spider-man have done stuff like this, revisiting plots from over 20 years ago or more
And boy, have I heard a lot of old and not-so-old comic fans complaining about that, because it was done sloppily or they'd ceased caring & don't want to waste time on tying up loose ends from something they don't care about.
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This comic is one coehesive whole.
It's a serial comic that's had multiple writers with conflicted agendas in it. It's really that cohesive.
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In other words, plot holes screw the storyline up.
No they don't - because if they never get brought up again, they cease to matter. This is not rocket science: dangling plot lines don't effect the plot when they haven't been mentioned or used for years. How could they? The plot's ignoring them. The characters are ignoring them.
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Ian can't just get into the comic and do his own thing.
Yes he can. Many writers do. In fact, loads of writers in serial comics have done that. Incoming writers have no real obligation, unless the editor specifically asks them (because this is work-for-hire), to tie up dangling plotlines from years and years ago, some of which appeared in just one issue.
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You can't just hop in, ignore everything that just happened
Most of the dangling plotlines didn't "just happen", they happened years ago. It's not the Spider-Ninjas were a key plotline from #159.
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Imagine the show "Friends". Six main characters right?
Now imagine that they decided to replace Phoebe with some random new chick...let's call her...Sara.
Wouldn't that tick you off?
Not inherently, no. Maybe Sara's a more interesting character or brings something new to the show. (Also, the TV analogy is slightly affected by the fact TV shows change the main characters all the time)
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Or what if Rachel(Fiona) and Chandler(Sonic) decided to have a fling EVEN THOUGH you knew Rachel(Fiona) was meant for Ross(Tails) and Chandler(Sonic) was meant for Monica(Sally)?
Ross and Rachel bored the crap out of me, so not the best analogy. I'm hardly going to be bothered if two of the characters have a fling when one of those characters has been single for years real-time.
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now Archie's gotta incorporate a bunch of SEGA characters who eventually eat up space with their own pointless story
"Now"? Archie's had to do this since the early days, because it's a tie-in comic and that's what tie-in comics do. Why do you think Knuckles, the Chaotix, Nack, Shadow, Rouge et al are in the comic?
(Pundit's merge edit)
I know what you mean, I got the last one of my subscription last week and I decided that I was kind of wasting my money so I decided not to re subscribe, the comic just got boring to me.
Farewell Archie.
CharlesRocketboy said:
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
There are two things you're failing to realize here:
1) This is not an argument you can or will win. Some people don't like what's going on, some do. The end, roll credits, no sequel forthcoming.
2) Double posting is against the rules (cleaned -Pundit), and there's an edit button.
Charles, if you did have some kind of overall point to your post, it isn't very clear to me. Please clarify for our benefit.
Abac, I feel personally that it's rather a waste 
that you've canceled your subscription. Could you please elaborate on your reasons? What exactly is the comic missing in your opinion? What does it need to be non-boring?
I think Dirk effectively wrapped this up, but I wanna reply to a few things that bugged me before I sign off from this thread:
How many long-term fans wanted to see it all resolved compared to how many long-term fans didn't? How many compared to the majority of the comic's readers?
Don know. You tell me.
It's a serial comic that's had multiple writers with conflicted agendas in it. It's really that cohesive.
It's a story with a continuous plot. It has to come together as a coehesive whole, or else it falls apart and begins to suck. Which it did for awhile. All sorts of shows, comics, movies, books, have gone through multiple writers. Just because you didn't write the story doesn't mean you ignore it, unless each story is meant to be it's own, standalone plot with no relation to any other story. Then your concept would fit. But StH isn't that kind of story, hasn't been for a long while.
No they don't - because if they never get brought up again, they cease to matter. This is not rocket science: dangling plot lines don't effect the plot when they haven't been mentioned or used for years. How could they? The plot's ignoring them. The characters are ignoring them.
It's because it leaves plotholes. It leaves many major story elements without ANY explanation. The Sword of Acorns was taken by evil spider ninjas. There HAS to be some kind of repruccussion from that. The Ancient Walkers are old gods with an agenda and plans for the "chosen one". That CAN'T evaporate into thin air. It's just not realistic. It's plothole is way to big. You can't just forget about it.
Some minor ancient plots where brought in because Ian didn't want to introduce an all new character with all this power only to kill him in a few issues. So, he used Sir Connery and his powerful "Sword of Light". I agree, Connery could have been ignored, but he was needed so Ian used him.
Yes.
A major plot, no matter how lame or stupid, is still a major plot and a glaring plot hole if not properly resolved.
He didn't need to - it had been under Robotropolis. Robotropolis got nuked to a crater. If he wanted to make sure it was gone, one line and a footnote about it being destroyed with Robotropolis works.
The thing is, it WASN'T all destroyed. The Sword and the Crown are the last remnants of the Source.
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Charles, if you did have some kind of overall point to your post, it isn't very clear to me. Please clarify for our benefit.
The overall point is that there's no need to refer to things that haven't been touched in a zillion years in a serialized comic book--particularly one that has had many different writers with different ideas on what the characters are/should do/should be/etc.--because there are many people who don't care. Also, most people who semi-care wouldn't really mind if the plot points weren't touched because they buy as long as the story is up to standard OR they're buying the comic regardless of the story. The people who really do care probably already have stopped buying the comic.
I don't know exactly why I don't like the comic any more, I just don't get the same excitement I used to get with it. And its kind of sad for me to think about it. But don't get me wrong I still love Sonic, its just just the comic that I don't enjoy. I'm still thinking about re subscribing. I'm just completely torn into to pieces about all of this. I need some more time to think things over completely before I make my decision.
What in the hell is Songoose, but I haven't read #150 at all, I'm picking up the comics every once in a while, and that cover to #166 sucks, I always liked the artwork in the comics, and Tracy is doing real well, but before that Ron Lim was kind of messing up the flow of things with his artwork, now I've seen some of his other artwork (i.e. Spiderman, Marvel stuff)and it is killer, I think he should have stuck to that, but about the storylines, I'm kind of sick of the relationship stories too.
Songoose is the title of one Mina's songs..
Or, more accurately, it's Mina's nickname, and it's the title of a two-part story that ran in issues 152 and 153 (if I remember correctly) that featured Mina.
Songoose, to be precise, is an execrable two-part story that featured Mina. It's the story that's execrable, not Mina.
Speaking of which, does the following give anyone a little tingle of trepidation?
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SONIC THE HEDGEHOG #172
"Truth of the Heart": Just in time for Valentine's Day, we ramp up the romantic intrigue. but don't worry, as always the stakes are high in the world of Sonic!
Hey, at least it aint Penders writing it. This is Ian we're talking about.
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The overall point is that there's no need to refer to things that haven't been touched in a zillion years in a serialized comic book--particularly one that has had many different writers with different ideas on what the characters are/should do/should be/etc.--because there are many people who don't care.
Precisely!
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Hey, at least it aint Penders writing it. This is Ian we're talking about.
That's a very good point! No point dwelling on yesterday!
I remember when I first Ken Penders was leaving. I was so pysched!![:]](https://www.mobiusforum.net/images/icons/smilies/biggrinshaded.gif){kind=icon}
well, I've been reading the comic for a very long time now. The first issue I read when I was young at a food store was Sonic #18. I started collecting with #21 and stayed pretty loyal with the series, except for a few misses in the 80s and then stopping in the 110s only to return for the "Home" storyline.
For me, the comic hit its first huge speed bump with the Sonic Adventure Tie-In. I was already sore over the Knuckles comic ending and really didn't like what they did with Knuckles during the SA Tie-In. I gritted my way through that story though and became a little bit more comfortable as issue 100 arrived. I was enjoying the Knuckles back up story at the time, and was satisfied with how Sonic was going. I then grew bored with how the story was going throughout the 110s. I know the comics became more stand-alone stories that were reminiscent of the past, but for me once the comic storyline had begun to flow more back in the 30s, i had no desire to see a return to how the comic was before that. Plus, I was growing irritated with not having enough room for Knuckles' story, and then of course his death just drove me away completely. I thankfully missed all the planet hopping Sonic did after his "death" and I more or less kept up with the comic again towards the conclusion of "Home" which gave me a lot of hope for some good stories concerning all our characters. But then I got disappointed again. Shadow kept popping up more and more as though this is his comic. Tommy occupied just WAY too much time. And despite the "Return To Angel Island" story, not much has been progressed in Knux's world (can you tell i'm more of a knuckles fan?)
We get to #150, and truthfully, I liked the issue. It wasn't grandiose in scale but I liked the flow of the story, and I liked how different factors were linked into it to set things up for the near future. I liked the evolution of Evil Sonic into Scourge. Gives the character more of an identity. I liked Robotnik's "family" and was sad to see Mecha go. I thought alot more could have been done with her. "The Darkest Storm" storyline provided alot of interesting developments, but I felt the story was too rushed considering how big it was. Ixis Naugus returned, and we barely felt his presence despite what a real threat we know he can be from his previous run in the comic. I did not like how the Ancient Walkers perished. We've barely heard from them in a long time, then we get to see them briefly before they're destroyed. That story should have taken up all three of the issues used to tell it, or if they just HAD to have two stories in each issue, then TDS should have had more parts to tell the story better.
Since then, though, I've had some hope that the comic may be getting back on track. It seems Tommy's neverending storyline is wrapping up along with Anonymous. I'm hoping with Shadow's constant appearnace lately that we may reach some sort of resolution by #175, and it sounds like steps will be taken soon to advance Fiona's story. With all this out of the way, hopefully the comic can return to the characters that drew us in in the first place, and i'd really like it if the comic can start to concentrate on advancing the story nicely. I feel like we get treated to samples of the various stories without any real flavor. TDS is a prime example I believe. Many readers are very interested and invested in these characters, and we want to really see them develop into something more as time goes on. As it is now, we see certain characters once, they disappear for a few issues, then they're brought back and in two pages the story throws some major development into the story then rushes off into some climax and then moves on to something completely different in the next issue and leaves you hanging for another six or seven issues.
I think the comic just needs to take a breath and slow down. Finish up the loose ends that currently exist with all these extra characters and then just get back to a smooth flowing story like we had from #30-83(or whichever issue started the SA Tie-In)
On a sidenote, considering the option of branching Knux and his crew back into their own comic would not be the worst thing to happen... Again, huge Knux fan. can't help it.
Weren't people complaining during the Nate era that the comic didn't need another brainiac to clutter it up and take the focus away from Rotor and Tails?
As I recall, the main complaint against Nate was that a random Overlander walked into the plot and not only acted as little more than walking plot dispenser for most of the time, but in revealing himself to've invented the Power Rings took focus off Uncle Chuck. It wasn't just that there was yet another Brain in addition to Tails, Chuck and Rotor.
The fact that Nate marked an increased focus on Overlander plot wound quite a few people up.
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"Robotnik" died in issue #50 =P
Eggman is different, it's not the same Doctor...
I'll admit it: I don't like Dr. Eggman
For the love of heaven, why must we call him "Eggman"?? I thought that was just a deragatory name used in Sonic Adventure for Dreamcast, not some sort of official title. It's friggin Robo-Robotnik, thank you very much.
I stopped reading the comics somewhere around #150. I'd have to go look at my issues to be sure. I kept up with them ever since #49, and loved them to death. I have almost every Knuckles issue and Super Special to boot. However, the insane crappily written side stories finally drove me away. Stupid crap like Sonic finding a genie or Rotor saving the world in a submarine just were too much. That and the "quality" of the art. The glory days of Art Mawhinney, J. Axer, and even the anime driven Fry just disappeared into total garbage.
Issue #100 was totally ruined by both a rushed story and that miserable excuse for an artist, Ron Lim. I was very disappointed in it, since I had such huge hopes after #50 and #75 were so fantastic.
Maybe I'll come back someday... when the story is written by someone not on OCD meds and Sega stops forcing the otherwise good continuity down the crapper with stupid game adaptations. Some of the posts here have given me hope that things are changing. We'll see what happens.
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now I've seen some of his other artwork (i.e. Spiderman, Marvel stuff)and it is killer,
have you seen any of the thanos stuff? that's insane, no one would guess that the artist that did the god awful 90's of sonic did the Thanos comic.
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It's friggin Robo-Robotnik, thank you very much.
i don't like the eggman thing either i call him just plain Dr. Robotnik, i think sonic X is what ruined it. now all of the kids out there that play sonic will think "DR.EGGMAN!"
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i don't like the eggman thing either i call him just plain Dr. Robotnik, i think sonic X is what ruined it. now all of the kids out there that play sonic will think "DR.EGGMAN!"
I happen to call him Dr. Eggman. I'm twenty years old. I have been playing Sonic the Hedgehog games since Sonic 1 on the Genesis, which I'm pretty sure means I'm not a "kid", as you so bluntly put it . I've been calling him Dr. Eggman BEFORE Sonic X came about. Just because you prefer the name Dr. Robotnik doesn't mean that those who call him Dr. Eggman are wrong or that you're right. Also, I don't go around saying stuff like, "Aw man, thanks to SatAM, AoStH, SU, and all of the older games changed by Sega of America, people who should share my opinion, and my opinion alone instead call him DR. ROBOTNIK."
The character in the games is Eggman, although there are hints that his original name was Robotnik. If the "kids" call him Eggman, then they are correct.
The character in the comics is named Ivo Robotnik. Robo-Robotnik was a nickname he took on when he was roboticized. He has been derobotized by the Bem and is now simply Robotnik again. He is also known as Eggman.
And that's that.
I would rather them use the name "Robotnik" a bit more. It seems like they always call him Eggman now, and there was really no indication in the comic as to how that name stuck on so well. They can use it, but I'd like to see "Robotnik" used more cuz I consider that his real name
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I happen to call him Dr. Eggman. I'm twenty years old. I have been playing Sonic the Hedgehog games since Sonic 1 on the Genesis, which I'm pretty sure means I'm not a "kid", as you so bluntly put it . I've been calling him Dr. Eggman BEFORE Sonic X came about. Just because you prefer the name Dr. Robotnik doesn't mean that those who call him Dr. Eggman are wrong or that you're right. Also, I don't go around saying stuff like, "Aw man, thanks to SatAM, AoStH, SU, and all of the older games changed by Sega of America, people who should share my opinion, and my opinion alone instead call him DR. ROBOTNIK."
If i remember correctly (and i do.) i said that I (that's I as in me) call him Dr.Robotnik, i never said anything about Everyone else should call him the same. you didn't actually read my whole post did you? a little ignorant of a "twenty" year old.
so no, i was not forcing my opinion down anyone's throat Quote/as you so bluntly put it./Quote
if you want to call him eggman, GO FOR IT. i personally don't care. i said that I DON'T LIKE CALLING HIM EGGMAN AND THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. not ONCE did i EVER say that no one else could.
is that clear enough for you?
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The character in the comics is named Ivo Robotnik. Robo-Robotnik was a nickname he took on when he was roboticized. He has been derobotized by the Bem and is now simply Robotnik again. He is also known as Eggman.
uhh, yeah thanks for that piece of information that we all know.
