WHAT! ANOTHER KEN PENDER'S TOPIC?

Yeah, but this could seriously affect the comics if this goes anywhere. If it would be too bad, Sega might pull the plug, and if Penders causes the end of the comic, he will have to pay somehow!!

I have been to Bumbleking and Ian says that Archies Lawyers are on it and that neither he, or we the fans have anything to worry about. I have tired to give mr. Penders the benifit of the doubt..but now I can honestly agree with those who say the man is a major A$$!!! You know it always sad to see good comic book writers go bad.

WOW. AR just linked the story in IRC... As much as I have distanced myself from the comic book series, this is a O.o moment. IF.. IF Archie's lawyers accidentally forgot to get Ken to sign the old "We own everything character and idea/story arch you make for this comic" then... yikes.

Oh, Ken Penders... you vindictive bastard.

What the deuce?! I thought Archie ran under the Marvel/DC principle of "what ever you create belongs to us." It's most likely that Ken is blowing smoke but my god he's like a child, I mean give it a damn rest man.

That is the way it's supposed to be, but Sega owns anything the book publishes including stories, characters, etc. instead of Archie. I don't know if Ken is stupid, which we already know he is, doesn't realize that, or he's found some loophole that would say otherwise, but hopefully, this can be resolved without much drama and very little financial strain to Archie. (I know Archie has some money, but I know they couldn't handle as much financial strain as Marvel and DC.)

Wait, I was under the assumption Sega owns ALL the Sonic products, including characters made for the comic series. If that is the case, isn't Penders essentially trying to sue for characters he never owned in the first place?

Yeah, pretty much or so it seems. Also, Ian's exact words from BK concerning this:

UPDATE: Obviously, I was concerned what this might mean for the book. Having spoken to the editors, I've been told that the lawyers have the situation well in hand and that I - and you all - having nothing to worry about.

Oh, Ken Penders... you vindictive bastard.

It's late at night, it's too hot to sleep, and I can't focus enough to fully explain in writing the disgust I have towards Penders right now... So thanks SA, you took the words right out of my mouth!

Ken Penders?  Richard Kuta?  Have they been seen in the same place at the same time?  Perhaps they are twins, because it's getting hard to tell who's who.

I initially took the action of reclaiming my work when I was contacted by many SONIC fans asking me if I had contributed in any way to the development of the video game SONIC CHRONICLES: THE DARK BROTHERHOOD. I was then startled to learn how many characters and concepts from the KNUCKLES series I created were adapted within the framework of the game's storyline. It was clearly obvious why suddenly so many fans sat up and took notice.

Wut?  Can somebody who has played it explain this to me?

I love how this retard plans to OFFICIALLY keep these SEGA LICENSED CHARACTERS (since, created or not, anything created under the Sonic license BELONGS to SEGA unless otherwise written in his work-for-hire contract), and then USE THEM IN HIS OWN BOOKS and then think that Sega will let him borrow or even USE their Sonic characters in his new stories.

Good lord, he is like a little child. A little, stupid, closet-furry pedophile creepy stalker child. And he wants his fan fictions published! ALWAYS! EVERYWHERE!!!

GOD shave that mustache.

Ken Penders?  Richard Kuta?  Have they been seen in the same place at the same time?  Perhaps they are twins, because it's getting hard to tell who's who.

I initially took the action of reclaiming my work when I was contacted by many SONIC fans asking me if I had contributed in any way to the development of the video game SONIC CHRONICLES: THE DARK BROTHERHOOD. I was then startled to learn how many characters and concepts from the KNUCKLES series I created were adapted within the framework of the game's storyline. It was clearly obvious why suddenly so many fans sat up and took notice.

Wut?  Can somebody who has played it explain this to me?

Basically, the game features a group of tech-themed echidnas who were banished into a place called the Twilight Cage in which time flows at a different rate and eventually one of its black-outfitted kickbutt soldiers is revealed to be an echidna gal who decides to side with the heroes. Sound familiar?

While the similarities seem a bit much to be a coincidence, I've yet to find any concrete statement (fan assumptions don't count) that confirms that the game's story elements were based upon those of the comic (actually, the closest I found to a statement seemed to indicate that they had no idea the comic had anything similar to begin with).

Anyway, with regards to the topic at hand, this whole thing is rather ridiculous and I doubt Mr. Penders has a legal leg to stand on.

Ken Penders?  Richard Kuta?  Have they been seen in the same place at the same time?  Perhaps they are twins, because it's getting hard to tell who's who.

I initially took the action of reclaiming my work when I was contacted by many SONIC fans asking me if I had contributed in any way to the development of the video game SONIC CHRONICLES: THE DARK BROTHERHOOD. I was then startled to learn how many characters and concepts from the KNUCKLES series I created were adapted within the framework of the game's storyline. It was clearly obvious why suddenly so many fans sat up and took notice.

Wut?  Can somebody who has played it explain this to me?

In Sonic Chronicles, Knuckles meets a group of echidnas with advance technology. They were around the time of Pachamac and Tikal, but were sent to an alternate dimension and only came back to Angel Island recently. The main character of said group even has a female echidna named Shades which many fans liken to Julie-Su (though Shades isn't as aggressive in personality).

 Hence the similarities. Honestly, I was under the assumption that the game developers were paying this as an homage, but I guess Penders didn't get that memo.

EDIT: Looks like Crazy Cham beat me to it.

And before anyone asks, yes, Scourge is also off-limits as he is
derived from a character I created.

L.O.L.

My
sympathies to Ian, who has to continue hearing about this disgruntled
troll and his army of banned-from-every-other-Sonic-board sycophants.

He's either trying to desperately screw up the comic out of spite, or this is some attempt at money.  After this he will certainly not be hired by another comic.

It's late at night, it's too hot to sleep, and I can't focus enough to fully explain in writing the disgust I have towards Penders right now... So thanks SA, you took the words right out of my mouth!

You're welcome. I try. ¦D

It's going to be hilarious and amazing when Penders is thoroughly manhandled by Sega. XD Though I wonder, in the meantime, if fan-made material (comics, art, fanfiction) featuring "his characters" will be subject to Penders sending cease and desist orders? **gets popcorn**

apparently his lawyers have gotten the government to recognize him as owning the copyright to all of those characters, concepts, places, plot lines, etc

How...is this possible? doesn't everything belong to Sega??

I haven't read the comics in a long while, though I think the little copyright notice goes something like, "Sonic the Hedgehog and all related characters and insignia are copyright Sonicteam, LTD./Sega Corporation", or something to that effect. Honestly, I don't know what to think. It doesn't seem like the powers-that-be are that worried over it though.

Lol He must be a closet furry. Every time I hear about art drama over the internetz there is a furry involved.

And before anyone asks, yes, Scourge is also off-limits as he is

derived from a character I created.

L.O.L.

My

sympathies to Ian, who has to continue hearing about this disgruntled

troll and his army of banned-from-every-other-Sonic-board sycophants.

He's either trying to desperately screw up the comic out of spite, or this is some attempt at money.  After this he will certainly not be hired by another comic.

What he's claiming hold on Scourge too? I mean he's Evil Sonic, and evil counterparts from an evil dimension are very common in stories so it doesn't take much to create one. Plus, I think Ian has pretty much made Scourge a different and more interesting character than being just another evil version of a hero. Ken really is just losing it isn't he and really making sure he's burning all his bridges to Archie, and whose to say he isn't trying to screw the comic and make money.

July 7th, 2010: The day Ken Penders finally lost the plot.

Whatever dwindling respect I had for him has been evaporated. And worse, I don't know if I'll ever be able to enjoy his old stories without despising the man behind them. He's absolutely pathetic.

As has already been said: he signed a contract stating that all of these characters and anything else he created whilst working on Sega's licenced property belongs to Sega. That's how copyright law works.

This is just a load of hot air. I wonder if he even realises that all he's doing now is comprehensively killing his career, since I doubt that any company worth their salt'll risk employing him after all this.

It's taken him long enough to get round to this, though - Ian should be flattered at being the one who got the little princess so rattled about being a risk to his self-perceived reputation as teh gr3at3st Sonic writer EVAH!!!!!1111!!!!!

This lawsuit defies all laws of.... comic books.

Seriously, Ken. Just let us kids have our super-spy skunk and rock n' roll. Besides, it's the Dark EGG Legion, now. Half of them aren't even Echidnas! BAHA. BLASPHEMY!

Oh dear Zod.

Agreed.

Assuming that there's no statute of limitations on copyright violation in the US (I don't know it as well as the UK system), I'd have thought that the apparent vindictively timed nature of this claim from someone who otherwise trumpets how much he knows about how the industry works (and therefore presumably would've known it was wrong), would puncture it in front of a reasonable judge, anyway.

If he had a leg to stand on.

Which he hasn't.

Moot point.

From Ian, calm down y'all!

I read that earlier..gawd bless Ian Flynn for being the big man here & trying his best to calm us fanboys & fangirls down.

I can say whay little respect I had for the man DIED. Oh I will still read my older issues of Sonic & Knuckles..I just won't ever read the credits again..LOL!

But I can say for surre Ian has replaced Ken as my Fav sonic writer...and Ken has sadly dropped to the Rock bottom. lol!

Yes, I do wish Ian would at least open the topic so we can let out a collective side though. It is good to hear that even if Penders win his characters will have to legally be distorted beyond recognition.

... I used to think Ken Penders was a nice man... now I think he's just in need of some money. I'm sure everything drawn for the comic belongs to SEGA so well... suck it up man, it's time to grow up and accept the fact that your ideas aren't yours anymore and they're free to be developed by the people working for the comic now.

IMO, Ian has done a great job working with what the comic had. So I'm not sitting around waiting for this to be resolved since there's nothing to be resolved. Ken has a big misunderstanding of how things work in the industry.

Off-Topic: Why isn't there a topic for #214? I got it in the mail but have noticed we have a lot of random short posts (not including this one) and no #214 Spoilers and Previews!

Off-Topic: Why isn't there a topic for #214? I got it in the mail but have noticed we have a lot of random short posts (not including this one) and no #214 Spoilers and Previews!

What about this one? Might as well use it.

This whole thing between Penders and Archie would make a great episode for a TV drama. I am not a lawyer, but I am not sure how Penders could win this since Sega owns all the characters.

I...really don't understand why Archie would have a problem with Ken wanting his characters for his own purposes, so long as Sega gets the dues for them being created under the Sonic banner.

I'm assuming he wants character like the echidnas and the Brotherhood, correct? Weren't most of them effectively written out of existance after the Knuckles!Enerjack story? If no one at Archie is ever planning on using the characters again, why does it matter if Ken wants them or not?

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that Ian has managed to make the comic a medium where the Sonic franchise doesn't actively suck, but I wll always hate what he did to the echidnas, especially to the Brotherhood and the rest of Knuckles's family. Though to be honest, the entire Knuckles!Enerjak story irritated me endlessly and was one of the reasons why I stopped reading the comic altogether. I understand that having no other echidnas except for Finitevus and Julie-Su makes the comic closer to the games, but I liked the idea that Knuckles wasn't one of the last of his kind.

No offense, but I don't think you quite understand the situation.

I...really don't understand why Archie would have a problem with Ken
wanting his characters for his own purposes, so long as Sega gets the
dues for them being created under the Sonic banner.

It's a problem because it's their
property. It consists of things they still use and intend to use, and
he's trying to claim that right from them. They should not have to pay
someone else to use property that was created for and signed to them.

In this case, Sega wouldn't be getting any "dues" anyway. He is trying
to claim complete ownership. He is trying to claim "Sonic in a leather
jacket," "green Sonic," "Knuckles with a beard and a robe" and the like
as completely original creations.

I'm assuming he wants character like the echidnas and the Brotherhood,
correct? Weren't most of them effectively written out of existance
after the Knuckles!Enerjack story? If no one at Archie is ever planning
on using the characters again, why does it matter if Ken wants them or
not?

The
Brotherhood had more or less been written out while Ken was still
working for Archie, actually, but that's beside the point. Furthermore,
it's not remotely just about the Brotherhood - it would include
characters such as Julie-Su, Lien-Da, Elias, Geoffrey, Rob, and many
others (no, not just echidnas - actually, Finitevus would likely be
excluded). Just from that sampling, the first three are still rather
active, and the latter two still pop up on occasion, so the characters
would still be in use. On top of that, flashbacks or mere mentions and
the like would count. Regardless, even if the characters weren't
actively used or referenced ever again, this would still affect their
ability to reprint issues (such as the Archives and Sonic Selects) in
pretty much any context. You don't think Sega would care if someone was
producing his own
material featuring the mother, father, daughter, girlfriend, and twenty
other relatives of one of their
characters, who are all obviously based upon their design? You don't
think it would affect Archie to suddenly have to have the King of New
Mobotropolis, brother to one of the main characters, disappear? Or not
be able to display covers of past issues?  You don't think Archie would
care if they were expected to fork over money every single time they
used a well-established character or reprinted material that should already be their property?

The individual books themselves clearly state that all the material,
including related characters, belongs to Sega. Ken Penders himself has
stated as much in the past. Every other person who's worked on the book
has gone in knowing they would sign away anything they created under
the license and publisher, so I sincerely doubt the forgot to have Ken
sign a contract well over a decade ago without anyone noticing until now.

Well, not all echidnas are dead; most of the DL is alive. After Enerknux de-legionized them, those that didn't follow Lien-Da and joined the DEL went to Albion with the other echidnas; Remington, Kokomiko (or however you pronounced his girlfriend's name), Lara-Le, Wyn, and Mace (Kneecaps) are all alive and in Albion so he hasn't killed all echidnas off. Also, as far as the Brotherhood is concerned, they're in limbo right now as Ian has no definite idea of how he wants to deal with them or Moritori, and Dimitri is still alive as a matter of fact Sonic and Tails just discovered his head where Lien-Da hid him.

If there was any possible way that Ken could get away with this, wouldn't it also work in reverse? Sega/DiC owns Mobius so any story Ken wrote featuring characters on Mobius would be unauthorized, and he would not be able to sell it without their permission? Furthermore all refrences to actual licensed charcters would also be unauthorized, which wouldn't work to well considering ALOT of his charcters are releated to Knuckles. It's painfully obvious that Ken has no clue what he is doing. I've lost all respect for the man. He's Judas and Archie is Jesus. To think he would stoop to a level this low is quite baffling. Luckily there is no way he will be able to pull this off so I shan't wory too much! Though Archie can give the fool Nagus Games and any issues he did 145-159 (they don't deserve to see the ight of day again anyways!)

If there was any possible way that Ken could get away with this, wouldn't it also work in reverse? Sega/DiC owns Mobius so any story Ken wrote featuring characters on Mobius would be unauthorized, and he would not be able to sell it without their permission? Furthermore all refrences to actual licensed charcters would also be unauthorized, which wouldn't work to well considering ALOT of his charcters are releated to Knuckles.

Right in Ian's words:

What would need a reboot, in the scenario that Mr. Penders somehow did win out in all this, is his plans. SEGA would not grant him the license to use Knuckles, I can flat-out tell you that with certainty. So right there the core component of the Echidna Lore - the main character - is gone.

He would not be able to use Angel Island, Mobius, or the Chaos Emeralds. Easy enough fix, though, right? It's Skyhigh Island on Terra using the Magi-Gems for flight. (copyright, by the way. Double-tappsies, no take-backs).

But the entire Echidna cast is comprised of Knuckles knock-offs. Mr. Penders would be required to redesign the entire cast, unless he's planning on trying to pass it off as parody (which I doubt).

By the time the property would be safe to touch, it would be unrecognizable. It's not about Knuckles's society or family. It's not about echidnas (the kind we think of, at least). It would now be a sci-fi-lite story about some dudes on a flying island. That could be interesting in its own right, but it's not the story I think Mr. Penders wants to tell, and it's not the one the echidna fans want to read. So I'm not entirely sure what his greater thinking is here.

Every other person who's worked on the book has gone in knowing they would sign away anything they created under the license and publisher, so I sincerely doubt the forgot to have Ken sign a contract well over a decade ago without anyone noticing until now.

Which brings up another point. If Archie did have Ken sign such a contract, why hasn't anyone trotted it out yet?

I would've thought that would've been the first thing Archie would produce when Ken started this whole thing. Unless it was a non-contract situation set up so that anything Ken created automatically became Archie's property.

I'm not too keen on copyright laws, but are there such setups that don't use physical contracts?

I'm asking about this because, while it doesn't involve the actual characters, according to the U.S. Copyright Office website, Ken has successfully copyrighted his stories. For an example, here's the copyright information for the Knuckles #25 issue. According to this, there's no mention of Sega or Archie. The only names mentioned are Ken as the copyright holder and a note on Spaz for the cover art.

Every other person who's worked on the book has gone in knowing they would sign away anything they created under the license and publisher, so I sincerely doubt the forgot to have Ken sign a contract well over a decade ago without anyone noticing until now.

Which brings up another point. If Archie did have Ken sign such a contract, why hasn't anyone trotted it out yet?

I would've thought that would've been the first thing Archie would produce when Ken started this whole thing. 

Who says they haven't? Apparently they have lawyers addressing the issue right now.

It's not like Mike Pellerito or someone is gonna pop up on a message board with a scanned contract going "BAM!" If anything they would contact Ken directly and formally over the matter.

Ken has successfully copyrighted his stories. For an example, here's the copyright information for the Knuckles #25 issue. According to this, there's no mention of Sega or Archie. The only names mentioned are Ken as the copyright holder and a note on Spaz for the cover art.

Well, you know that has to be wrong because obviously Knuckles is a Sega property; I honestly don't see how that could be unless the people that processed it did something completely amateurish.

Every other person who's worked on the book has gone in knowing they would sign away anything they created under the license and publisher, so I sincerely doubt the forgot to have Ken sign a contract well over a decade ago without anyone noticing until now.

Which brings up another point. If Archie did have Ken sign such a contract, why hasn't anyone trotted it out yet?

I would've thought that would've been the first thing Archie would produce when Ken started this whole thing. 

Who says they haven't? Apparently they have lawyers addressing the issue right now.

It's not like Mike Pellerito or someone is gonna pop up on a message board with a scanned contract going "BAM!" If anything they would contact Ken directly and formally over the matter.

But if such a contract exists, and it has already been established that everything that Ken ever created story-wise and character-wise automatically belongs to Archie, why was Ken allowed to copyright his stories?  If his stories automatically became Archie property the moment he created them, why would the US Copyright Office grant him copyright privileges over them?  Wouldn't he have been denied the copyrights if the stories already belonged to Archie either by trademark or another copyright?

I ask because Archie has no copyrights regarding Knuckles or his subsequent stories, at least not according to the USCO website.

More from Penders. Apparently, "My actions have always been more than just about me. If I win, everyone who ever worked on the book will win. I would think Sonic fandom could support that stand."

From my understanding, Ken filed a copyright claim. That's not really hard to do. A claim be contested, which presumably Archie and Sega will do in response.

The comics and their content bear a copyright from Sega and are published by Archie with a license. The artists and writers essentially work on commission basis, which makes what they do a work for hire.

What is a work made for hire?

Although the general rule is that the person who creates the work is its
author, there is an exception to that principle; the exception is a work
made for hire, which is a work prepared by an employee within the scope of
his or her employment; or a work specially ordered or commissioned in certain
specified circumstances. When a work qualifies as a work made for hire, the
employer, or commissioning party, is considered to be the author. See Circular 9, Work-Made-For-Hire
Under the 1976 Copyright Act.

Copyright
protection starts from the time the work is created in fixed form. The
copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the
author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights
through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

In the case of
works made for hire, the employer and not the employee is considered to be the
author. Title 17, Chap 1, Sec. 101 of the copyright law defines a "work made
for hire" as:

(1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of
his or her employment; or

(2) a work specially ordered or commissioned
for use as: a contribution to a collective work a part of a motion picture or
other audiovisual work a translation a supplementary work a compilation an
instructional text a test answer material for a test a sound recording an atlas

Okay, that's what I didn't understand.

I thought that if Archie and Sega already owned Ken's stories, he wouldn't have been able to succeed in applying for copyright protection.

Carry on.

Somewhere, Penders is probably sitting in his Dr. Claw chair, cackling uncontrollably over the drama he's created... =P

Sad thing is, I think the comic book fans relish it too.

The whole business is excessively amusing. I read that link at Ken's board and will report some of it here.

I'm asking about this because, while it doesn't involve the actual characters, according to the U.S. Copyright Office website, Ken has successfully copyrighted his stories.

Somebody posted another example at Ken's board, of somebody copyrighting a Sonic/Pikachu hybrid: http://cocatalog.loc.gov/...WSE=1&HC=1&SID=2

So yeah, it is apparently not very significant that he got those copyrights, especially since they are to specific stories.

Now Ken is saying the whole thing is an altruistic attempt to get Archie to pay royalties for reprints like Marvel and DC do. That sounds good, and might be credible if he hadn't started by announcing that distributors were being told to stop selling comics, that he claimed every idea even remotely related to his writing, or that it started by his being informed of very irrelevant similarities to the Dark Legion in Sonic Chronicles.  Maybe he was either spooked by the negative response he got, or realized that the highest payoff he could get from winning his case would be a series about a de-Sonicized echidna brotherhood and blacklisting in the industry.  I'm still confused how he ever believed this legal action would be advantageous to him.

He's got like 7 people who post at his board, and a few of them constantly bash Ian, come up with bizarre, absurd accusations against him, and suck up to Ken. 3 of them are Miko and the horror triplets, who have been banned from the rest of the entire Internet for years, and are apparently even less stable now. They even managed to toss their grudge against Ian and, well, everybody else, for their bannings, into the copyright topic, many years after. Another is that guy who's obsessed with Drago, and hates Ian for continuing to write Drago as a buffoonish henchman. Apparently Ken's ego took this as confirmation that there is demand for what he is doing, rather than a few people who have nowhere else to post and resentment issues.

Who are the horror triplets?

And awww, White Wolf. He makes me laugh so much.

Who are the horror triplets?

Who are the horror triplets?

Three sisters who were permanently banned from here and most of the Sonic community. I'll leave it at that...