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I'd like to get back into fanfic myself, if only to get the Archie taste out of my mouth.
please, please, please!!! *on his knees*
(pardon the malfunctioning quotation)
Bite my fluffy white ass, VCP. 
~Rico
**tries to see any bad news but fails**
Just need to find out who the writers will be besides Ian & Tania. Just maybe I'll read the comic again. ;p
Oh, and Ingjald, you just needed to change the formatting. It needed to be on "ezCodes."
Yeah, I can't see any bad news but celebrating about someone being let go isn't a good thing. Heck I didn't even pop the champange with Sony axed Torres.
~Rico
I feel sorry for Penders, but it's probably for the best as far as the comic is concerned. His work in the past few years has been rather disappointing. It was hard to imagine he was the same author who wrote those cool Knuckles stories way back when.
One does have to wonder what this new era of the comic is going to bring, however. Tania has written one good Sonic story, and Ian's a fan, but that doesn't guarantee great work. Plus, they have both the added freedom and the added pressure of having the series' two long running writers out of the picture...
One way or another, the comic has entered interesting times...
If hiring a fan writer is anything like hiring a fan artist, it'll hopefully mean that someone who grew up with and cut their teeth on these characters as a fan will actually have some empathy with what fans like.
Penders has been dead man walking for a long time. If he's realy so wonderful that we all don't appreciate him because we have no imaginations and should shut up and be grateful for what we're given, let's see where his stellar career goes from here.
So Penders was never any good?
~Rico
I never said that, Rick - but his recent arrogant belief in his own hype (mostly hype created by himself, too) eclipsed a lot of that as far as I was concerned.
Thats what I wanted as a reply. Like I said, it was time for him to leave but there are some people running around acting like Hitler was just defeated and thats not the case. For the all the crap this guy did recently (I don't even read the comic anymore and I hear it constantly) he didn't always do bad. I think we should at least just wish him well in his endeavors and say "Bygones". No point in try to lynch him on his way out, save that ol' Julio Torres, of course it seems starwars fanboys are more rabid than Archie ones.
So forget the past and start digging the spurs into Ian. We can have a booth where you get to whip him as it thinks up ideas for the comic to raise money!
~Rico
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[Ken's] recent arrogant belief in his own hype (mostly hype created by himself, too) eclipsed a lot of that as far as I was concerned.
What didn't help was the turf war between him and Karl Bollers over continuity. Continuity decisions weren't vested in a Story Editor and the writers were free to bring conflicting visions to the party. The results speak for themselves.
To be fair, though, Romy Charcon was the main cause of the continuity inconsistancy, at least when Penders was doing it he was just trying to mis-direct the course of the plot (potentially more fatal in the long-run, I suppose), whereas Charcon was just totally disregarding things.
I think Penders signed his own warrant with all the online stuff he's been doing over the past year, flaming fans and slandering Bollers (aswell as pettily revealing his pen-names) just brought things a bit too far. Saying Sonic fans are unimaginative and more or less demanding we like what he tells us to like was the final straw.
I wasn't around back in the old days, but I'm sure he did alot of good way back when, from what I hear issue 50 was an awesome milestone and worthy of respect.
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So forget the past and start digging the spurs into Ian. We can have a booth where you get to whip him as it thinks up ideas for the comic to raise money!
No whipping my boyfriend. >B-|
I agree with Samanfur. A Sonic writer who once a Sonic fan knows what the general pubic wants (and yes, I've got over Ian's "Sonic and Teletubbies crossover" even though its left me permently scarred.)
And if what Craig said about Ken is true then I have now got no sytheny for him. Or very little.
<quote>I wasn't around back in the old days, but I'm sure he did alot of good way back when, from what I hear issue 50 was an awesome milestone and worthy of respect.</quote>
It was a milestone, but not in an overly positive sense of the word. In my opinion, it was a disaster.
Ken's GOOD work consists mainly of the Knuckles series, the Knuckles material preceding it, and SOME of the Knuckles material after it.
As I've said, Ken was never as good with Sonic as he was with Knuckles.
i wouldn't necessarily say 50 was a disaster, at least not from the outside view. i wasn't online at the time(i think i started lurking on the MoFo sometime shortly after?) so i was completely oblivious to the turmoil going on behind-the-scenes in respect to Sally's proposed death, etc. in fact, that all being brought into light is the main reason people dont like the Endgame(if, in fact, they do don't like it). as an outsider looking at the straight product, though, a great sense of direction was felt leading up into Endgame. stories felt like they had a purpose, like Ken was slowly revealing an incredible piece of artwork bits at a time, everything finally coming together in an "ahh" moment. it is something that hte comic seldom has, and why i personally believe the height of the comics level of excelence ended with 50(though it could do it again). a master plan was there, and thats what the comic needs again. hopefully thats what Ian has. if you know the end from the beginning, creating the middle is suddenly much easier.
------------------------------------------the-Krayon
I agree. -Pesters Ian to come read-
Yes most of the bad stuff I did see and hear about and from Ken was online crap.
And I'll whip whoever's boyfriend I want. I don't mind second turn. XD
~Rico
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as an outsider looking at the straight product, though, a great sense of direction was felt leading up into Endgame. stories felt like they had a purpose, like Ken was slowly revealing an incredible piece of artwork bits at a time, everything finally coming together in an "ahh" moment. it is something that hte comic seldom has, and why i personally believe the height of the comics level of excelence ended with 50(though it could do it again). a master plan was there, and thats what the comic needs again.
Yes. Yes! You, good sir, just summed up exactly what the main problem has been with this comic for at least 75 issues. My thoughts precisely.
Also - why does everyone actually hate Endgame so much?
in no particular order:
#1: out of principle , being a aupporter of Sonic X Sally, the latter then being alive (please note that this does not qualify as discussion of couples)
#2 it had quite a good feel to it, but its editing was horrible...at least I completely missed the nuclear explosion in the issue, and then discovered it in the DX cut, along with alot of other things.
#3 plotholes (for example St. John being able to keep up with "The Fastest Thing Alive", simply because he has a tracker in his legcuff)
#4 Many Hands. (some of the artwork was really nice, but some of it, especially the final battle, was outright horrible)
#1: out of principle , being a aupporter of Sonic X Sally, the latter then being alive (please note that this does not qualify as discussion of couples)
i'm not quite sure what this means...
#2 it had quite a good feel to it, but its editing was horrible...at least I completely missed the nuclear explosion in the issue, and then discovered it in the DX cut, along with alot of other things.
it certainly could have used more space, i dont think anyone would disagree with you there, though, the issue itself did not necessarily feel too rushed.
hmmm...a nuclear explosion? i dont recall one in #50, but im intrigued to find it! where in the issue does it occur?
#3 plotholes (for example St. John being able to keep up with "The Fastest Thing Alive", simply because he has a tracker in his legcuff)
i think Sonic's incredibly worn-out state was apparent throughout the story, plus we know he fell asleep in 48 and rode Dulcy in 49.
#4 Many Hands. (some of the artwork was really nice, but some of it, especially the final battle, was outright horrible)
the final battle? that was Spaz i i found it to be rather well-done. i know, though, that i am in a minort of fans who enjoy multiple-artist stories.
------------------------------------------the-Krayon
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i'm not quite sure what this means...
In short, Im against the killing of Sally.
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hmmm...a nuclear explosion? i dont recall one in #50, but im intrigued to find it! where in the issue does it occur?
Right before the final battle, Ant and Bunnie state that they're there to plant "ze bomb", referring to the tiny thermo-nuclear device they recovered from crocbot(I think). Also, right after the fight and zones doing stuff they shouldnt, someone, I believe its the Quack, states that Sonic was "closest to ground zero", supposely referring to the bombs epicentre.
the second of the explosion was dramaticaly marked by a non-coloured close-up of Sonics and Botniks faces screaming in fury, followed by an entirely blank page in the DX.
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the final battle? that was Spaz i i found it to be rather well-done. i know, though, that i am in a minort of fans who enjoy multiple-artist stories.
*looks again* I think its a bit overdone, all the dramatic flashes and "movement lines" wouldve made it look dramatic, but i find that it almost seems like theyre melting away...
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i think Sonic's incredibly worn-out state was apparent throughout the story, plus we know he fell asleep in 48 and rode Dulcy in 49.
while i cannot contradict you here, I will ask you though: how the hey did did St. John and his gophers and doggies get to Sonic so fast? it was stated that the plane crashed miles from the Devils Gulag, but thta does not make it close to Knothole...and i cant see any means of transport, yet he is still right there with Sonic on the floating island in #50.
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Right before the final battle, Ant and Bunnie state that they're there to plant "ze bomb", referring to the tiny thermo-nuclear device they recovered from crocbot(I think). Also, right after the fight and zones doing stuff they shouldnt, someone, I believe its the Quack, states that Sonic was "closest to ground zero", supposely referring to the bombs epicentre.
the second of the explosion was dramaticaly marked by a non-coloured close-up of Sonics and Botniks faces screaming in fury, followed by an entirely blank page in the DX.
Neither were nuclear explosions. "Ground zero" is just the center point of a large explosion. Yes, it's usually nuclear, but not always.
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how the hey did did St. John and his gophers and doggies get to Sonic so fast? it was stated that the plane crashed miles from the Devils Gulag, but thta does not make it close to Knothole...and i cant see any means of transport, yet he is still right there with Sonic on the floating island in #50.
Considering we saw St. John jumping out of an airplane to meet Sonic & Knuckles at the end of #49, I think its safe to assume that St. John always had some form of transport to track Sonic down.
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Neither were nuclear explosions. "Ground zero" is just the center point of a large explosion. Yes, it's usually nuclear, but not always.
then what is that symbol on the side of the bomb in question?
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Considering we saw St. John jumping out of an airplane to meet Sonic & Knuckles at the end of #49, I think its safe to assume that St. John always had some form of transport to track Sonic down.
*looks again* nope, we see him parachuting down, we dont see any plane...but point taken.
i don't see how you couldn't like The final battle in #50, but it's your opinion so whatever.
but i have to admit that i've started hating ken for the whole continuity battle, and for badmouthing karl.
I don't disagree with Ken quiting the series. I think it's time for other writers to have their chance.
Ken didn't quit the series. Mike made him leave.
Yeah but considering the recent production I'm not going to cry.
I think the scariest thing of all is that Ken will no longer have any control at all over the fates of Knuckles and his related cast. There has always been a sense in the Knuckles stories that there was some great and mighty purpose that frankly made it more interesting than the Sonic stories. With Ken gone, so goes that. All that Ken has built from the ground up now falls completely out of his hands.
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then what is that symbol on the side of the bomb in question?
A standard hazardous material symbol. I find that symbol on many different chemicals and not all chemicals are nuclear.
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I think the scariest thing of all is that Ken will no longer have any control at all over the fates of Knuckles and his related cast.
That stopped bothering me after I saw how Karl handled the cast in Sonic #138-141. Considering it's Ian that could be running the show, that definitely wouldn't worry me in the least bit.
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A standard hazardous material symbol. I find that symbol on many different chemicals and not all chemicals are nuclear.
right...:img.photobucket.com/album...nboard.jpg
Well at least now I know what the problem is: radioactive and nuclear are not necessarily the same thing--other than both being hazardous. I'm not interested in delving into chemistry to prove that point though.
this is more physics than chemistry, actually. We have concluded that it is indeed an explosive device, and that it is in fact either nuclear or filled with radioactive material.
A regular bomb filled with radioactive material is called a "dirty bomb", and its purpose is to spread hazardous, radioactive material over a large area, rather than impress anyone with its destructive force.
A nuclear device would also carry that symbol, bein that it works by launching a ball of unstable uranium or plutonium into into a body of the same material, getting atoms to split, and creating a nuclear reaction. a nuclear reactor works essentially the same way.
so by choice, we have that its either a nuclear device (read, Bomb), or a "dirty bomb". Judgin from the obvious destructive force of the bomb, I think we can exclude the latter.
Yeah...but it didn't level Robotropolis...look at Hiroshima (pardon my poor spelling skills); the city, save a few buildings, was completely leveled... Robotropolis's buildings were all still standing...
Plus we have the problem of the fallout...
Well...take a look at the mecha madness...that ended in numerous nuclear-missiles detonating in robotropolis, so fallout should already be an issue in robotropolis...
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so by choice, we have that its either a nuclear device (read, Bomb), or a "dirty bomb". Judgin from the obvious destructive force of the bomb, I think we can exclude the latter.
What destructive force? Nothing even happened to the building the bomb went off in at all. Comparing it to Mecha Madness makes it even worse since that actually DID have some destruction--though I always felt that there weren't any real nuclear weapons in it since the only stories that ever truly acted like something other than a massive explosion occurred were Sonic #110 & the dingo strike against the echidnas between 100-200 years ago. Remember, the whole "war room" that Sonic fought Robotnik was near where Bunnie/Antoine's device went off. If that bomb caused massive destruction, then both of them would've been killed in the explosion. Nothing was really destroyed in Endgame at all. Not even the Ultimate Annihilator was destroyed since it still managed to go off after the explosion (but damaged).
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flaming fans and slandering Bollers (aswell as pettily revealing his pen-names) just brought things a bit too far. Saying Sonic fans are unimaginative and more or less demanding we like what he tells us to like was the final straw.
When was this?
Ive been visiting Ken's bbs for a while now and while I have seen him snap a little. Ive never read/heard him say
"Sonic fans are unimaginative." When was this??
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Not even the Ultimate Annihilator was destroyed since it still managed to go off after the explosion (but damaged).
what are you talking about? Botnik set of the Annihilator manually before the explosion, thats the only reason it went of.
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What destructive force? Nothing even happened to the building the bomb went off in at all.
something ive noticed aswell...are we talking about a supposed bomb entirely without destructive force? If so, what was the blank and noncoloured pages in "Big 50 (special 6) supposed to symbolize? A non-destructive explosion? Even a regular explosion of decen size wouldve done some damage in this context.
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though I always felt that there weren't any real nuclear weapons
well, either that or hydrogen bombs, judging from the shape of the explosions
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If that bomb caused massive destruction, then both of them would've been killed in the explosion.
well, it wouldnt be the first time our hero/ villain or others have eluded death in unexplainable ways...
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If so, what was the blank and noncoloured pages in "Big 50 (special 6) supposed to symbolize?
I believe the white page is supposed to symbolize the Ultimate Annihilator's destructive force on 'Buttnik and Sonic(before it is reveiled that he escaped through a zone hole).
Ditto on what Rayzor said... the blank pages, at least in my opinion, represented how close Sonic was to being wiped out completely... hence the hand sticking out of the blank page on the next panel...
the explosion was not quite an explosion at all, that bomb, when detonated, simply fluctuated(at least from my perspective) the use of the Ultimate Annihlator. Instead of wiping things out, now the weapon just sent Knothole into a different time zone and weakened overall zone structure. The white pages are the weapon going off, buttnik being wiped out by the malfunction set up by Snively, and the zone/universe being rattled.
About "Endgame," I have said before that I am glad I was not an internet fan back then, I have heard that it got kind of nasty. Overall, I thought it ended up being a pretty good story arc, it did keep my attention. I am glad that it turned out that Sally was alive, which I somewhat suspected from the start; not knowing the orginial plan. It is true that they could have brought Sally back in a better way, though it was enough to make me an even stronger Sonic and Sally fan.
Looking back, the only small problem I had with the story arc was that the explaination as to how Sonic was framed(Hershley in a Sonic suit), seemed kind of dumb.
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the explosion was not quite an explosion at all, that bomb, when detonated, simply fluctuated(at least from my perspective) the use of the Ultimate Annihlator. Instead of wiping things out, now the weapon just sent Knothole into a different time zone and weakened overall zone structure. The white pages are the weapon going off, buttnik being wiped out by the malfunction set up by Snively, and the zone/universe being rattled.
this would be quite odd, being that, as i said, botnik set the Annihilator off manually before the bomb was even planted, much less detonated.
If anyone else is wondering why I called issue 50 a disaster, you need only look at the past couple dozen posts in this topic.
The use of multiple writers to tell a single story made issue 50 a confusing mess. I found it very difficult to follow. Granted, I was a third-grader at the time I read it, but retrospect just makes things more confusing.
The absolutely ridiculous treatment of the Bunnie/Antoine subplot was appalling. To some extent, this has been fixed by the Director's Cut, but we still dont' know what was accomplished with that device. We don't know what it was or what it did.
The UA didn't malfunction because of the so-called bomb. It malfunctioned because Snively modified it. So what was the point of the bomb? To this day I'm still unclear on many of the details of Endgame.
And that's only one of the reasons Endgame was a disaster. Another notable reason was that Ken tried to kill Sally but failed, leaving us with a useless but well-liked character. To this day the writers still haven't figured out what her role should be.
The UA didn't malfunction because of the so-called bomb. It malfunctioned because Snively modified it. So what was the point of the bomb? To this day I'm still unclear on many of the details of Endgame.
This isn't entirely true unless you are going by the original and not the DC (director's cut). The UA was essentially a glorified laser that uses a satillite to rely the UA's beam to its entended target. When Snively messed with the UA, he just effected what the beam could destroy (which out of all the lifeforms it was ment to was now only Robotnik). The thing that caused the UA to malfunction and ultimately go off ,after first hiting Knothole, inside Robotnik's HQ was the bomb planted by Bunnie and Antione. Snively's tempering made the UA's beam only effect Robotnik and Bunnie's/Ant's bomb sets the UA off insides Robotnik's HQ. Does it make sense now? if so please explain it to me 
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Does it make sense now? if so please explain it to me .
Wait...you just explained it...really well too! Good Job!
Dirk, I was a 4th grader when it came out (at most a fifth grader) so my reading skills weren't much better...That said, I'm not sure if I thought about it that much. I just accepted what had happened, no questions asked.
The king is dead! Long live the king!
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That said, I'm not sure if I thought about it that much. I just accepted what had happened, no questions asked.
Yep, the same pretty much applied to me; I didn't think about it I just read it and enjoyed it(both editions). Oh and Solo, I think you did well with your explanation, too.
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The king is dead! Long live the king!
LOL (that is LOL, if, by saying the king is dead, you talking about Penders getting fired, if not, than what does this have to do with either topics at hand?)
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The thing that caused the UA to malfunction and ultimately go off ,after first hiting Knothole, inside Robotnik's HQ was the bomb planted by Bunnie and Antione. Snively's tempering made the UA's beam only effect Robotnik and Bunnie's/Ant's bomb sets the UA off insides Robotnik's HQ
Once and for all: the Bomb didnt set of the UA, the bomb cant have effected the UA or its functionality or what it hits, or dont hit...The bomb wasnt even planted when Robotnik set the UA off manually, thus allowing Sonic to see Knothole destroyed before the showdown. I'm still unsure, howver, about the whole deal with temporal distortion in Knothole...
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was a third-grader at the time I read it, but retrospect just makes things more confusing.
well, I was 17 when I first read it, and I sure found it confusing...
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we still dont' know what was accomplished with that device. We don't know what it was or what it did.
We know it was "ze bomb"...it just wasnt very good at being a bomb...*shot*
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Once and for all: the Bomb didnt set of the UA, the bomb cant have effected the UA or its functionality or what it hits, or dont hit...The bomb wasnt even planted when Robotnik set the UA off manually, thus allowing Sonic to see Knothole destroyed before the showdown. I'm still unsure, howver, about the whole deal with temporal distortion in Knothole...
~Ingjald
I think your confusion is based off the original S50 (which I completly agree with you) but this was corrected and explained in the Sonic Specials with Sonic 50: Director's Cut which is what everyone for continuity purpose goes by.
Ingjald, the UA went off TWICE, hitting two different loactions. The first time was when Robotnik targeted and hit Knothole. The second time was after Bunnie and Antione, despaired at not stopping the percieved destruction of Knothole, planted the bomb causing the malfunction that set the UA off inside Robotnik's War Room/HQ, which was after Sonic "saw" Knothole destroyed. The second hit is what ultmatlely KILLED the original Robotnik. Snively's tempering with the UA made the UA's beam only be a threat to only one lifeform, Robotnik himself. That is why when the UA hit Knothole it didn't destroy it but when it hit Robotnik and Sonic it killed him (or cease to exist as the comic put it) and spared Sonic. As for why exactly it sent Knothole three hours into the future is anyone's guess.
I hope that explains everything.
Look up, man I'm hopeless geek to remember all that. 
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Snively's tempering with the UA made the UA's beam only be a threat to only one lifeform, Robotnik himself.
thank you! that cleared alot up! Though I am going mostly by the DX, and some of it still has me confused...
