I like how Sonic's arm is attached to his head. Honestly, like there aren't a multitude of better artists out there...
Ah, so they added one more thing. The previous 8 things we learned nearly 2 weeks ago.
Final cover art, first update.
Can't say the coloring job particularly wows me. A black outline would really make the images "pop" better.
Hunh. I have mixed feelings about that coverwork.
Indeed. It isn't completely terrible, as it manages to capture some of the charm of the old SatAM designs. But it also captures some of Pender's odd anatomy weirdness *gazes at Sally*. No Pender's Knee, though. That's comforting.
Still, why Ken was tapped for this work eludes me. Love him or hate him, you can't deny the guy's passion for the Sonic franchise. But his art for the Archie comic has rarely ever been more than functional. And in the best interests of the upcoming compilation and its sales prospects, I should like to hope for a stand out DVD cover that's more than simply "functional".
Ken has little passion for the Sonic franchise. What he has passion for is his own take on the franchise and its characters. This became especially apparent during his last two years or two on the book.
You're confusing passion for ego. Or was I? *ponders*
Anyhoo, no one's denying that Ken likes getting his own way when it comes to how things develop in the comic, much to the detriment of
**MASSIVE RANT DELETED**
Nah, I really don't care that much. I have to stop wasting time on these off-topic tangeants. Carry on.
I agree that Ken does seem to have a big ego. What I have really disagreed with him is on his overall take on characters and their relationships, not just Sonic and Sally's (not meaning to turn this into a relationship thread), though Karl does have his share of the blame in this too. Hopefully the DVD will not only make some new fans of the show, but remind people of how the characters work best and how they should interact, for the most part.
My curiousty is what the extended and deleted scences are, when do they take place, and will Ben mention the comic itself
Little bump...
Amazon currently has a preorder for it up. Save 25% 
To quote "Price: $22.49 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25."
I've already made mine
March 27th can't come soon enough!
The first review of the boxset is in, courtesy of IGN...
...And they weren't terribly impressed.
dvd.ign.com/articles/769/769137p1.html
They gave it a 6 out of 10, and said it was in the same vein as Zelda and Mario Bros. Super Show.
They go on to slam Ben Hurst for "not having any freakin' clue as to what Sonic is about." Shows how much they know.
Considering the fact that the show was nothing like the games it was supposed to be based off of, I will have to agree with them. Ben Hurst DID'NT have any freaking clue as to what Sonic is about.
Sonic does'nt hide and run away from some cross between Dr. Claw and Darth Vader. He runs out in open fields battling crazy robots made by a madman trying to conquer the planet.
I'm waiting for the AoStH sets. Then I'll have something to be happy about.
Having Ben Hurst as an outsider was a benefit to the show. He turned what was just a platforming mascot into a true hero viewers could root for, and he turned an incompetent Eggman into the cold dictator known as Dr. Robotnik who had already conquered most of the planet. And to ensure that the series didn't live and die on the Sonic vs. Robotnik plot, he inserted ancillary villains such as Snively and Naugus. So what if the series strayed from the souce material? That's what made it better and more interesting than any of the other cartoons. Go ahead and wait for your Roadrunner and Coyote knock-off known as AoStH. That's your prerogative. But this series was better.
In principle, I'm agreeing with Toby.
And Erinaceus, I really don't think you're being fair in assuming that just because someone doesn't like SatAM, they must be AoStH fans, or just not recognise SatAM's brilliance. That's your opinion, and nothing more.
In terms of the basic content of the series, I've been saying for years that as far as I'm concerned, anyone who defends SatAM on the grounds that it's "the essence of Sonic" is kidding themselves. The reason why I've always described it as the one Sonic series that could survive without the franchise attached is because other than the eponymous hero, it's got virtually no relevance.
It's stuffed with fan characters and Mary-Sues, to the detriment of any elements of the original Sega cast or plotline - even Tails, who's supposed to be the super-genius and inseparable sidekick, is reduced to a character who's lucky if he even gets an appearance or one line (normally one of the fan characters telling him not to do something, him running away or him telling Sonic how amazing Sonic is) per episode.
I'll freely admit to cringing myself at a lot of the very very dated "cool" dialogue or done-to-death catchphrases - and my reasoning as to why they didn't just go the whole hog (pun intended) and call the series The Misadventures of an Arrogant, Whiny Mary-Sue Princess have been seen here multiple times (although I'll repeat them on request).
The production values are average for the time. They're not AoStH standard, but they're hardly mind-blowing, either.
There's a limit to what sort of DVD transfer you can make out of a series that:
i. Is over fifteen years old
ii. Wasn't stellar to start with
iii. Is being released on the cheap by a budget company.
Compared with what's on offer for SatAM's - or even IGN's - target demographic today, and there's nothing amazing there in terms of content or extras.
I thought that IGN were being very fair.
They didn't utterly rubbish it - they said that SatAM is a nostalgic guilty pleasure that its fans will appreciate, but which the new generation of Sonic or cartoon fans might not "get" or see much merit in.
There's no shame in liking it, but it doesn't deserve to get put on a pedestal and made into some seminal creation. It doesn't do anything new or even do what it does in any way that's unusual.
It was a tie-in rolled out for the Saturday morning slot in order to promote a game franchise (and which didn't even do a good job of portraying the franchise it was tied to). Nothing more, nothing less.
There's no shame in liking something that isn't great, but not everyone's going to treat it with the same rose-tinted reverence. People looking at it as non-fans won't necessarily get it, and even some fans - myself included - are going to wonder exactly what relevance it is.
You've been missed.
"Aside from Sonic himself, the cast included Tales and a few new characters that to be totally honest were amazingly uninspired, such as Princess Sally Acorn (Sonic's lady friend), Antoine D'Coolette and a weird half rabbit, half cyborg named Bunnie Rabbot. If it sounds like a nightmare, that's because it was."
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Ok, I think whoever wrote this had no idea what the series is about. Honestly, so when they said Tales I think they meant Tails and this does not look like some typo. Apparently they do not know about robotization either 'cause I know Bunnie might have lloked weird being half robot but it's part of the plot.
"The package itself is a decent set for any Sonic nut (or fan of crappy '80s television), as it's littered with fan art all over the box and DVD sleeves, contains all 26 episodes, storyboards, extra scenes and interviews with the key players of the show."
Heyyyyy, didn't the series air in 93? It's not a cheesy 80s show! Plus IMO us fans gave it all we could to produce great fan art. I think one of the best things that the producers could do was to have this contest to show how much fans really cared for the show!
ok, end of my 2 cents.
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Since I've produced the sets as an outsider and not an original fan, I'd like to think I'm a bit impartial to the two series. I, however, have noticed a lot of people complaining that SatAM isn't representative of the games on which it was based and that few characters live up to their potential. I have a problem with this. I've now seen every episode of SatAM and AoSTH and I've gotta say that neither fully represent the games on which they were based. While AoSTH utilizes more of the game's characters, I don't feel that the Looney Tunes-style of storytelling is entirely representative of the fast paced, action oriented franchise.
And there's something to be said about character development in story telling. If every character was heroic or all-powerful from the beginning, there would be no arc and, therefore, no real drama. Ben made it very clear in his interview with me that the third season would have focused on the ascendence of Tails and even pointed out that there were sequences written into the show's second season that were ultimately cut of Tails coming into his own. I find Tails to be a far more interesting character when I watch him grow into the super genius from a novice level than when I see him as one from start to finish.
I also have a major problem with people criticizing Ben Hurst for his lack of knowledge of the games. Ben was brought in to head up the second season. He's the man responsible for giving it a season long story arc. He's not the man responsible for giving SatAM the tone and character it had. That was Len Jansen. Len oversaw the entire show and should be credited more than Ben Hurst for the style of SatAM. Ben will be the first to say so himself. And before anyone goes off on a tangent on Len being the one who doesn't know Sonic, he's also the man behind AoSTH.
And for anyone defending AoSTH's animation quality or value over SatAM, I will say that I have noticed A LOT of stock animation used for AoSTH. In some episodes, there's very little original animation used and it almost seems obvious that the show was produced quickly, in order to get a weekday series out of it.
Everyone has their own opinions. Personally, having just seen all the episodes of both series, I prefer the less slapsticky, more story driven plots of SatAM, but I'm still having a lot of fun putting this first volume of AoSTH together. They're both good shows, but clearly for different types of people.
It's just a shame that we can't all find something to love about all of the Sonic series. I'm finding that it's a lot harder to sell something to Sonic fans because they're so divided, unlike the Super Mario fans who love the character over the individual shows. Hopefully, we'll find some middle ground in there somewhere. Personally, I think the SatAM fans need to buy the AoSTH volumes and vice versa in order to make sure every episode is released. It's not a cheap sales ploy. It's simply a statement of fact. The minute we start losing money on these titles, we'll discontinue their release. I don't want that to happen.
Thanks for the time, guys.
Brian
If you're not a fan of Sonic or the cartoon, you probably won't know who the characters are or perhaps how to spell Tails' name. (I mean it appears onscreen for all of what, 5 seconds in the pilot episode? I don't blame the guy for guessing)
Bunnie is interesting to me at least, but after a close look her robotization doesn't come into the plot as much as I'd thought. Her arm and legs were robotized off camera prior to the series start and how, when, and why are never addressed in the canon. When she does regain her bod briefly, the focus is largely on Chuck. We do not see how Bunnie spends a day being 'normal', only that she cries upon reverting to her old self. Tears are quickly wiped away so she, Sally, and Dulce can rescue the boys. And the end we're assured she'll be fixed "someday" and Bun is perfectly content to wait it out and use her metal limbs to save the day meanwhile. The series never has her wonder if becoming derobo'd would cause her to lose her place as the "muscle" of the team, or have her face prejudice due to misshapen appearance or any other issue. Hardly anyone makes note of her limbs unless it's for a quick sight gag or a deus ex mechana (as with the elevator legs) but with only 2 seasons and a young target audience we can't really blame them.
To further cap it off, the more I look into it, I see Botnik has few victories, the most impressive (coup) occurs pre-Series and is shown only thru flashback. He is openly mocked by Sonic and occasionaly Sally or Bunnie. Snively, his own nephew and supposed second-in-command hates him and overthrows him in the end. Apart from Chuck (who is able to shake off his control) he does not make use of regular Robians, prefering SwatBots or other machines. I would think that Sonic and co. were certainly have moral problems fighting/destroying their own kind (family and friends) than blowing up nameless metal henchmen.
In short, Botnik may not be an unfallable menace and probly is on par skill-wise with his other incarnations (Sonic X, SegaSonic, Archie, AOSTH, SU)
Does that make the show bad? Not really. Do you have to agree with my assesment? Heck no. SatAM is a decent early 90's cartoon that some people will enjoy greatly and others will pass on. Neither side is wrong, just a matter of tastes.
At this point in my life I most enjoy the series for what it instilled in me- an early love of cartoons, a desire to learn more about video game design/mechanics, and a chance to communicate and connect with many folks (particularly those of countries I'd never been) Were I to see it and have the cash, I'd buy the DVD but won't lose sleep if I can't.
At the time the show was written, this is all we knew about Sonic:
1) Sonic lives in a fantastical fantasy world
2) Sonic is a hedgehog with an attitude, Tails is his faithful and innocent sidekick
3) An evil force, Dr. Robotnik, is turning all of Sonic's friends into Robots, which offends Sonic.
4) Sonic wants to free his freinds from inside the robots.
5) There are magical things in the world -- such as Rings that give Sonic 'energy', and Chaos Emeralds, which are even more powerful
X ) Knuckles was guardian of the Floating Island. (Sonic 3 was released in 1994, and it was probably too late to add Knux in. )
Now I can see the following ways in which you could credit SATam as not being an accurate representation of Sonic's world
1) The evnironments Sonic went in were not as varied or as colorful as in the game
2) Chaos Emeralds were not present. (However, Time Stones and Power Gems were equally mystical items of power.)
3) Robotnik was not as comical as in the games
X ) Knuckles did not appear.
Now to me, it seems completely Reasonable that as Sonic is trying to help his friends from being turned into robots that he might aly himself with other animals. The games gave absolutely no political background of the world outside the Sonic Vs. Robotnik thing so the concept of Knothole is fair -- we know there were animals living in the world, and it makes sense they'd live together in some way. Roboticization is simply the process of which Robotnik got the animals into the robots.
I'll just add my two cents in.
Don't get me wrong, I grew up with SatAM. I remember watching it every Saturday morning. But after watching the episodes again, I can't help but cringe slightly at it.
Sonic's dialogue is very stereotypical of the "cool lingo" of the time. I also don't like how Tails, a character already established at the time the series was created, got shafted for Sally, who to me was nothing more than a canonical Mary-Sue. Sally was a decent character, but she had far more screentime than I think she deserved. Yeah, I understand that she was the leader, but she pretty much in every other scene. If I'm recalling right, not only did she get the most screentime, she also got the majority of the dialogue. Sonic, it seemed, was just there to justify the title.
I'll be the first to admit that I love SatAM, but it's no where near the pinnacle of Sonic animation that some people make it out to be. It was good for it's time, but some people give it far too much credit.
I find it interesting that people criticize Sally as having had too much screen time for someone who never appeared in the games. Honestly, this never bothered me. I liked her character as a love interest and all-around Princess Leia-like leader (who was the very definition of a "Mary-Sue"). No one complains that Zelda had too much screen time in The Legend of Zelda and, yet, Link spends every videogame trying to rescue her. No one complains that Princess Toadstool has too much screen time in The Super Mario Bros. Super Show or Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 and, yet, Mario spends every game trying to rescue her. Captain N's Princess was the same way as Sally and she never appeared in a videogame. But I don't hear anyone complaining about her. These characters were also Mary-Sues.
So why does Sally get the shaft? What is it about her that people don't like when they have little to no problems with the other feminine characters on other shows?
If it counts for anything, I hate all of those characters you just listed as well. =D
I think people critisize Sally, at least I do, because she was created solely for SatAM. At least Zelda and Peach were already established characters in LoZ and Mario respectively. Sally was a SatAM-only character. It just aggravates me that a cartoon-only character upstages the one who the story is named for. Why even bother calling the series "Sonic the Hedgehog" when Sonic isn't even the main character? If anything it should've been called "The Adventures of Princess Sally starring Sonic."
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I find it interesting that people criticize Sally as having had too much screen time for someone who never appeared in the games. Honestly, this never bothered me. I liked her character as a love interest and all-around Princess Leia-like leader (who was the very definition of a "Mary-Sue"
. No one complains that Zelda had too much screen time in The Legend of Zelda and, yet, Link spends every videogame trying to rescue her. No one complains that Princess Toadstool has too much screen time in The Super Mario Bros. Super Show or Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 and, yet, Mario spends every game trying to rescue her. Captain N's Princess was the same way as Sally and she never appeared in a videogame. But I don't hear anyone complaining about her. These characters were also Mary-Sues.
well first off, All of those princesses DIDN'T get much screentime. Sally DID. so yeah people have a right to criticize.
Brian- I remember when comparing SEGA property to Nintendo would get your teeth bashed in. Times change, eh?
The problem with your analogy is that most of the Sues are passive wait-and-get-rescued Princesses or at least they started life as such. Peach and Zelda may have slipped into the heroine role periodically, but mostly they are content to wait in dungeons. (The truly geeky might then ask whether you match Leia-Sally to Luke-Sonic or Han-Sonic as she'd clearly different relations with the two. A Leia-Luke comparision could be downright creepy)
Sally conversely was the equal and often the greater of the boys: mentally, spiritually, and even physically (I recall Sal gaing a speed boost to temporarily keep pace with Sonic). Her advice was spot-on and she never failed and seldom lost confidence. Holding a position of power or authority, pretty, popular (within the series' universe), skillful and dating-the-hero are among the top reasons ANY female character gets hate. Sally happens to fit the bill.
I don't hate her, but I can see why others might. Frankly the thing that bothered me most was how she flirted with several boys and played off the jealousies/insecuries of Ant and Sonic but that doesn't appear to upset most.
Umm...You know, it's been so long since I've actually seen Sonic SATam that I can't make any sort of comment on her Mary Sueishness at all. I had also forgotten Tails' role being different.
I can understand why game fans would not like Sonic Sat a.m., but for me it is what Sonic is about, frighting for freedom, love, and friendship. About Sally, I admit I had a small problem with Sally flirting with guys other than Sonic, but I like to think that would have stopped eventually. I don't mind Sally's "Mary Sueishness" if by that you mean "pretty, skillful, dating the hero..." those type of characters don't bother me.
I wasn't a fan of the show because of its style. The IGN reviewer obviously wasn't paying much attention, because he made quite a few errors and didn't quite seem to understand the point of Bunnie. However, I'd guess that most of the strong fans of SatAM are people who didn't play the games first, or weren't particularly fans of them. Sally might have gone over better if she wasn't a princess on top of everything else, and Rotor, Dulcy, and Bunnie are rarely offensive to anybody. But one universal about the show is that it felt like Sonic and Tails had been transported into some totally different series. The other animal characters were towering bastions of genericness, as were some of the settings, which clashed with the artistic design of Sonic and his environments. But then, looking at some of the concept art for SatAM on SHQ (Before SatAM), SatAM was actually an artistic improvement over that.
SatAM is more like a cartoon Star Wars that happens to have Sonic in it. Its popularity probably works on some of the same levels as Star Wars, even besides the Leia/Han parallel. You've got a virtuous rebellion up against an evil empire that's usurped its overwhelming power. The characers can build pathos easily in a plot like that and you need a super evil intimidating villain like Darth Vader or the Emperor, rather than the comic Eggman. So I can understand why people who weren't into Sonic at the time would have liked it a lot.
SHOUT Insider, you're right about Sonic fans having wildly different tastes. Every incarnation of Mario other than the ludicrously bad movie is very strongly in "whimsical" territory. The American interpretations of Zelda seem to be popular as unintentional comedy (WELL EXCUSE ME PRINCESS). However, just about every Sonic series has been wildly different and usually contradictory. Things have cooled down a lot. 10 years ago games vs. SatAM flame wars were very common. It sounds like you've done quite a job with the DVD so I wish you guys luck and thank you for your participation with the fanbase.
I've said it a thousand times to various Sonic fans, and I'll reiterate it again.
SatAM is not representative of the games, nor was it ever meant to be. It is another author's vision of the original (vague) Sonic the Hedgehog concept. You have to take it for what it is at face-value. As it is, it's an entertaining cartoon with, in my opinion, a good roster of characters and enteresting stories.
I see so many people who want it to be like the games. Well, guess what folks? it isn't. The Captain N cartoons were nothing like their original source material. The Super Mario cartoons were drastically different as well. Every facet of Sonic is different. SatAM isn't about Sonic and Tails. Hell, it's not even really about just Sonic(to the chagrin of many of you). It's about Sonic and his team. You do see Sally, Bunnie, and Antoine a lot more than Tails. And so what? Does that make the stories that center around these specific characters any less engrossing or appealing? Oh, of course it does...they're not 'Sega'-created characters.
It's not the games, folks. It's a cartoon and it exists as its own, games be damned.
You don't have to accept all the differences, but it sure couldn't hurt you to accept the opinions of your fellow fans. The eletism in the Sonic fan community astounds and bewilders me.
I frequently bash Nintendo fans for their narrow-mindedness and rampant fanboyisms(...like the one who did the IGN review...), but I will say, for the most part, at least most of them have no problem accepting the different varations of Mario. Not to mention the opinions of other fans. It would be truly too much to ask the same of Sonic fans. 
Batman is another character that has been represented in more than a dozen different ways. Some are completely different than the original incarnation, yet accepted just the same.
It's downright shameful to see people from within the same fandom fight and bicker like they do.
Truly.
I agree with Chad on this one. He made a valid point.
I agree wit Chad, too. And I didn't mean to bash Toby for prefering AoSth...I liked AoStH as a kid, but now, I see it for what it was: A slapstick comedy in the vein of Roadrunner and Coyote. DiC wasn't too hot on the virgin effort, so that's why they then shifted their focus to SatAM.
I'm well aware that SatAM wasn't intended to be representative of the games. I'm not arguing that it was or it should be. But the show was called Sonic the Hedgehog. So why is Sally a more prominent character than Sonic, who the show is named for?
I think that a lot of people've gotten the idea that I despise SatAM or SatAM fans - which I don't. I even own a complete set of bootlegs - which I assure you I have every intention of upgrading to the real thing after the release date.
As IGN said: it's a solid enough little series for what it is. But what it is is a Saturday morning franchise tie-in, rather than a Disney-esque magnum opus.
That's why I was rolling my eyes at people asking why it didn't get higher marks. As far as I'm concerned, nostalgia value or fandom value don't make up enough reason for why it deserves them when compared against the wider market.
I get very frustrated with people who make it out to be more than it was. I mean no disrespect to Ben Hurst for simply doing something different with the material - what he did, in terms of narrative, was fine for the timeslot, the demographic and whatnot. What it wasn't was somehow exceptional or to the spirit of the licence.
With the exception of Sally (who we were mystifyingly constantly supposed to sympathise with, despite the fact that she was probably the least pleasant of the FFs) and the way that Antoine's comic relief role was so forced, the cast additions were even likeable on the whole.
I don't mind if it's not 100% representative of the games - based on what we knew of the narratives at the time, it would've been exceedingly dull if it was.
But what I really can't get over is that sense that I'm watching a screen version of someone's bad Mary-Sue fanfic: watching a powered-down (incapable without his "power rings" and none too bright) Sonic play second fiddle and Tails reduced to blink-and-you'll-miss-him status to an arrogant, whiny Princess with an answer for everything and an entire friggin' cast of characters (excepting a souped-up cyborg Robotnik who obviously wasn't threatening enough for the writer as simply a mad, super-genius wannabe dictator - and with special mention to Rotor and Sally, since the roles of tech whizz and principle female were already taken by Sega characters) who meant nothing to the franchise before and (since their cameos in Spinball weren't explicit and SegaWorld Sydney's been closed for years) have meant nothing if you live in a country where you can't get the Archie comics since.
Divergence is fine to some extent - but they went far too far.
And yes, Peach and Zelda're Mary-Sue-ish - but they at least didn't appear out of nowhere and rule the screen, and they let the eponymous heroes actually be seen to do work and be competent at it. My rant on Sally is here (that word's a link, folks), and I still mean every word.
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Considering the fact that the show was nothing like the games it was supposed to be based off of, I will have to agree with them.
Seconded. Every Sonic spin-off media ends up diverging from the games to some extent, but SatAm does it to an absolutely massive sense from the jump. You have to wonder why DiC bothered paying for the license.
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I'm waiting for the AoStH sets.
I know it'll be really, really bad and yet I still want it. (Yay Scratch and Grounder!)
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SatAM is not representative of the games, nor was it ever meant to be.
Then DiC wasted their money paying for the license and are stupid.
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Hell, it's not even really about just Sonic(to the chagrin of many of you)
Of course it'd be to their chagrin - Sonic's the title character, they've tuned in to see him.
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Does that make the stories that center around these specific characters any less engrossing or appealing?
Well, yes - when SatAm first aired in the UK and I was the target audience age, the stories around the SatAm-original characters were less engrossing and appealing to me. (The massive difference in Tails' personality and role compared to AoStH got on my nerves too, probably because it was the same VA in both shows and it was just weird that what seemed like the exact same character was acting & being treated completely differently)
Remember that SatAM came about to some extent because ABC refused outright to screen AoStH, and DiC had to go back to the drawing board.
And to support Charles: it honestly wasn't until I found out about the Archie comics that SatAM held any interest for me.
When I first turned on SatAM back in '93, if it hadn't been for some character profiles in a single StC spin-off, I'd have had no clue who these characters were, what was going on or why I was supposed to care.
As it was, we were dumped into the SatAM narrative in such a way that I felt that way anyway. If I tune into a Sonic show, I expect it to be about Sonic (and to a lesser extent, Tails - and even SU actually let Sonic be the star of his own show, Tails or no Tails). I stuck with its original airing more out of macabre curiosity than anything else.
The "This series is about Sonic, and as such should be focused soley on Sonic" is the exact same arguement people against the Sonic Adventure games have been saying over the years as well. And I counter by saying that in all honesty, Sonic is a cardboard hero, whose antics would have grown trite before Sonic & Knuckles, so he needs a small, but strong, well-developed supporting cast who have their own interesting play styles to keep things fresh. We don't have to like them all, but we should at least acknowledge that they do contribute. That's almost the same arguement I give over why we should care about the Freedom Fighters. They were a small, but strong and well-developed supporting cast with their own personalities, who helped Sonic, and the series as a whole.
Also a good point. (Although I don't know whether the "carboard hero" would apply here or not.)
Judging from the show's characterizations, it seemed like the writers wanted us to sympathize with Sally and Sally alone. Since she was the only one who got any characterization.
So let's say that the writers couldn't have done anything new with Sonic and Tails's characters. But they still had Bunnie, Rotor, Antoine, Dulcy, and a handful of Freedom Fighters to work with. Why did the writers feel that with a main cast of at least six characters and numerous side characters, only one deserved any actual characterization? Let's run down what we know about the core Freedom Fighters besides Sonic, Tails, and Sally:
Bunnie: Southern, half-robot, super strong
Antoine: French, coward, idiot
Rotor: mechanic, somewhat shy
That as deep as the writers ever go with these three. Forget about Sonic, these characters were as deserving of characterization as Sally, but did we see any of their history? Anything that would make us sympathize with them? Aside from that one episode centering around Dulcy, that was reserved for Sally and Sally alone. Were the writers so lazy that they couldn't be bothered to at least give some insight on the history of the others?
Yes, I finally get something I can respond to that's recent. ^_^
To say that Sally is the only one who got characterization (ignoring the fact that you negated it by mentioning Dulcy) is incorrect.
You're ignoring the development episodes for Antoine, such as when he stole a power ring to use as bait for Robotnik and he & Sonic had to work together to save the day. Many people may have disliked the episodes that had "2 stories" in them, but I loved them and they fleshed out Antoine a lot as well. Yes, overall, Antoine was a "coward," but there was more to him than that (which is something Archie developed far more than the show did--though it even took Archie 6-7 years before they did).
You're ignoring the development episodes for Rotor, such as when he had to save Sonic, Sally, & Antoine himself or when he & Sonic went on a "space" adventure. Rotor also decided during the series that he was better suited to being off the battle field and just inventing, unless it was necessary.
You're ignoring the development episodes for Bunnie, particularly when Sally was kidnapped or when Bunnie was temporarily deroboticized. Bunnie is by far one of the most sympathetic characters just because of her partial roboticization.
Getting into roboticization now, Sonic was by far just as developed as Sally with regards to a past and sympathetic connections. Sally had her father, the King, but Sonic had his Uncle--Sir Charles. Uncle Chuck is one of the most interesting and developed characters on the show in just about every facet possible. There were many episodes dedicated to Sonic & Uncle Chuck's relationship. Sonic was also a lot more than a fast, hyper-active hedgehog and was developed as such. There were several episodes where Sonic had to make hard choices and while some where bad (but there probably isn't any character save Lupe--due to her lack of episodes--who wasn't shown to have made at least one bad choice), most were good.
Even if he didn't get the season 3 treatment that Ben Hurst had planned, acting as if Tails wasn't developed is not being fair to the series at all either. Tails started off as "just the kid" and grew into being a respected Freedom Fighter in his own right.
The backbone of the series was Sonic & Sally (both of them were treated equally mind you), but the others weren't ill served during the series, unless you wanted it to be centered on Sonic & Tails (though their relationship as partners & "brothers" was very strong, particularly in season 2). But that's an expectations game, not related to what the series itself did in terms of developing characters from what they started out in episode #1 and how they were by episode #26. With regards to the main duo of the series, Sally only upstaged Sonic in the brains category. Sonic was physically better (it's only in the Archie series that Sally is a real good fighter, in SatAM she's just athletic) even without his speed. Sonic & Sally indivdiual weaknesses were the other's individual strengths. That's what made them the "team" to start the series and for most of it.
Edit:
Oh and some other things I just have to mention (even if they are a couple days old). Sally wasn't the leader, even if she came up with most of the plans. Sonic was the leader of the group. Some may not think he deserved to be called the leader (similar to say Sailor Moon on that anime series), but he was. ^_~
As for the question on Sally "hatred," you should see the stuff said about Chris Thorndyke from Sonic X. Anytime a character can be reasonably accused of taking away stuff from Sega-created characters, that is a huge source for "hatred." With regards to SatAM, yes, Sally gets it the most, but she's not the only one--and it's usually for the same basic reasons.
Well like I said I'm going to get my copy at Wal-mart (if it's there, hven't seen it on the site yet, but it might be there) cause that's where I work, so I can try and get at Midnight, and I also get a 10% descount so that will save me money too.
But while I speaking of the set, for those that already have it, a few questions, in the Ben Hurst Interview does he mention the Heads or Tails Piloit and as the Sonic and Sally epsiode and why they were both made, just curious.
God Bless
Then DiC wasted their money paying for the license and are stupid.
On the contrary. Sega contracted DiC to make the show for them. The show, like any based on a pre-existing license, was meant to be a commercial for the video games(Though, thanks to the care of the writers and artists, it became so much more than that). Sales of Sega Genesis consoles were through the roof that holiday season, thanks muchly to the popularity of this very TV show. I bought my Sega Genesis because of this very show. It got me, and millions of other kids hooked on the franchise. No money wasted here, from either Sega nor DiC. It was a very wise investment. DiC's still making money off of it(with their DVDs), and Sonic's still around today, making Sega the big bucks, so obviously it was a wise investment on Sega's part.
Of course it'd be to their chagrin - Sonic's the title character, they've tuned in to see him.
When I first saw the show, I had known about Sonic the Hedgehog. But I didn't tune in to see Sonic himself. I tuned in to watch an entertaining cartoon. And that's what I got. So, what's the problem? It's an entertaining show. It's not what YOU wanted, but it made countless others happy. You've got your opinion. And that's fine. Many people who enjoy the show like it because of what it is, not what we want it to be.
Well, yes - when SatAm first aired in the UK and I was the target audience age, the stories around the SatAm-original characters were less engrossing and appealing to me. (The massive difference in Tails' personality and role compared to AoStH got on my nerves too, probably because it was the same VA in both shows and it was just weird that what seemed like the exact same character was acting & being treated completely differently)
So it seems you just wanted it to be like the video games. You obviously had a vision of what you wanted Sonic and Tails to be like in your head beforehand. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. But it's very narrow-minded that you can't accept a few cosmetic differences in the story and the characters and judge something based on it's own merits, and not on the coattails of the games which they are based on.
But again, you just wanted the games. This show was not meant for you, clearly.
So why not just suck it up and accept that fact, and stop attacking other fanbases for their views and opinions?
I know I don't go around telling everyone about how much I don't care for Sonic Adventure or Sonic X. I'm a bit more mature than that. I understand that everybody has their own personality traits that dictate their likes and dislikes. Everyone in the world is different. If we all had the same opinions and liked all the same things, we may as well start wearing swasticas on our sleeves.
Chad, TR, and others have expressed feelings so eloquently. I cannot explain why I liked the show, only that I did. Minor flaws are more aparent now as I get older but a core enjoyment is still there. I understand not everyone likes the same things and don't mind hearing them say so (Ex. I don't share Samanfur's opinion but think she stated it well). Tho it can be downheartening if arguments spill over into bad language or flames but thankfully people are keeping tempers in line.
P'raps the best thing I have to say of SatAM is that it got me to talk to people I might otherwise never have met and started some great friendships. That might not sell any DVDs but to me it speaks volumes of the francise. *shrugs* To each his own, and may we all find a hobby that sparks creativity and pleasure. Sonic works for me regardless of the media form he takes.
Also a good point. (Although I don't know whether the "carboard hero" would apply here or not.)
What I meant in calling him a "cardboard hero," is that Sega never really let's Sonic develop a real personality beyond "The I'm the hero and I'm going to save the day!" attitude.
I agree that Sally's character was absolutely necessary. Sonic was, by nature, impulsive and it seems like the fans prefer it that way. He was always ready to just go in and take care of business. You need a balance; a conscience to that character. You need someone who can reason logically and plan strategically with the impulsive hero.
And to the person that said that the princesses in the previous shows I mentioned got less screen time and relegated themselves to being chained in the dungeons, you're absolutely wrong. I've recently produced the complete "Legend of Zelda" series and can absolutely tell you that Zelda was just as important and had a great deal of screen time--especially screen time that involved treating Link like a child. She was absolutely the leader. And while Princess Peach never talked down to the Mario Bros., she was always there and part of the team. Yes, there were times when she'd be captured, but I can think of times when Mario and Luigi were captured, too. And, again, Princess Lana in Captain N was created exclusively for the show. And she treats Captain N--the title character--as the impulsive hero, while often devising the plans. No one seems bothered.
I'm not trying to argue. I'm merely trying to understand the audience.
The reason I fell in love with SatAM (which lead me to the comics and eventually to the games) was the emotional impact of the show. Sonic wasn't just some hero with powers who decided to fight the bad guy to save the chick he liked. As a child he WATCHED his uncle, his only family member, be turned into a mindless robot. That moment in the cartoon still brings a little tear to my eyes, almost 12 years after I first saw it.
I'm really excited about this release for a number of reasons 1) It means I can get rid of those stupid AVI files that are hogging space on my HDD. 2) It gives me a chance to show my support for the franchise. 3) Yay, DVD copies of the shows of my Youth N_n... and most importantly 4) The release means I get to share this awesome show with my little siblings. 11 + years between me and them means they don't even remember the 90s. Time to pass on the torch to another generation!
EDIT: Rant removed.
>> @ Miss Puar... I think you are the one who sounds angry and defensive... Especially to someone who is a guest in our forum. Shout Insider doesn't have to come here.
Quote:
I'm not trying to argue. I'm merely trying to understand the audience.
The man (or woman) is addressing multiple questions at once.
I'm sorry if it came off that way but whether you're a guest or have been here for years it's helpful to be specific. When you genrealize like Brian did people can (and sometimes do) take it the wrong way. My dog died so maybe there was anger showing. My bad and I'll go take a break. See y'all later.
Miss Puar, I'm not arguing that Zelda and Peach don't spend their time cooped up in dungeons throughout the games. That's actually my point. They spend zero time not being in distress in the games and, yet, they come off as powerful and headstrong leaders in their respective cartoons. But no one complains that this doesn't resemble the games, when, in fact, it doesn't. In actuality, Zelda and Peach both play similar roles to Sally. Does that mean people are just more forgiving when the character is actually from the games, despite having different character traits and motivation?
