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Scourge is not Anti-Sonic

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(@alex-warlorn)
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Quite often, I have heard it say that Scourge is just Sonic without a conscience, and this applies to pretty much all the Anti-'s with, of course, the exception of someone like Dr. Kinbotor.

However, after much observation and self-deliberation, I must object this conclusion on the character(s).

The best parable in story telling I can tell comes the Black Guards in Dungeons and Dragons game, who are considered by some according to the source material as 'anti-paladins.'

I once read an article in The Knights of the Dinner Table magazine that tear this to shreds.

Black Guards are NOT Anti-Paladins. They do not fight for the 'higher cause' of evil, they do not act perfectly evil in a proper twisted and vile manner to entice others to become evil, they are not joined in a brotherhood between themselves seeing even a black guard they never met on the other side of the planet as a fellow agent of darkness.

Black Guards fight for themselves, they act how they please as long as their master continues to provide them with power, they have no endearment towards each other, and couldn't care less about who joins the Black Guard and who doesn't.
When they are given a task by their master, it isn't an honor for the greater cause, it is a CHORE. While paladins gains power to serve, Black Guards serve to gain power! The are, to borrow the original phrase used, 'a twist fun house mirror reflection' of the paladins.

The same is to be said of the Anti-Mobians. ALL of them.

Dr. Kinbotor is not a benevolent dictator, he is not a leader, he does not engage in contrived and over complex plans, he does not toy with his opponents, he is RE-active in his problem solving with Anti-Sally and her group, opposed to Eggman who is PRO-active.
Thus, he is not simply a Dr. Robotnik with a moral compass.

Sonic and Tails' friendship has proven to be stronger in the face of adversity, Scourge and Anti-Tails betray each other at the drop of a hat. Anti-Sally was much more open in her interest towards Scourge where Sally is conservative, Anti-Sally's openness belies her shallow interest in him, where Sally interest is Sonic is something she can not bury no matter how many layers of dirt she puts on top.

I know this doesn't matter to many, if anyone else, but I felt this was just something that to be formally pointed out by someone.
The Anti's are not simply darker versions of the Sonic crew, or inversions. They are mockeries. Just as Dr. Kinbotor would likely see Dr. Eggman to be a mockery of Dr. Kinbotor.

 
(@dark-aldran)
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But how does that not make them anti's? "Anti" basically means opposite, and it seems like everyone acts the opposite of how they act in the prime universe.

 
(@alex-warlorn)
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The POINT is that Scourge and "anti-" tails are NOT partners in crime as Sonic and Tails are partners in good-doing, as they would be if they were inversions or just bad guy versions of them.

There is a BIG difference between an opposite and a mockery.

 
(@toby-barrett)
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Sooooo, they are'nt buddies and parters, rather than enemies in the anti-verse, sorta like anti-buddies, which would then mean enemies, instead of being buddies like Sonic and Tails, thus making them exact opposites...

I think that that's how it's supposed to work.

 
(@alex-warlorn)
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Is anyone even listening to what I'm SAYING? Ugh.

Sonic and Tails: Buddies in good.
Opposite of Sonic and Tails: Buddies in evil.
Mockery of Sonic and Tails: Friendship is bogus.

 
(@toby-barrett)
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But if they're still buddies in the opposite zone, then they would'nt be opposite, would they? :crazy

This is all just a bunch of silly, moon man mumbo jumbo.

 
(@Anonymous)
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AW makes some good points regarding the inhabitants of Anti-Mobius. The inhabitants of AM and Mobius Prime are basically the same people, but with a number of key differences. AW pointed out that Kintobor is reactive while Robotnik is proactive, Anti-Sally is obvious and shallow while Sally is conservative and has genuine feelings for Sonic (I'm so glad that he and I agree on this point), and that Evil Sonic and Anti-Tails are willing to betray each other on cue while Sonic and Tails are the closest of friends.

Of course, it cannot be denied that while the distinctions between Mobians and Anti-Mobians aren't black and white, some generalizations are rather accurate. Kintobor, for example, wouldn't necessarily try to take over Anti-Mobius if you gave him Robotnik's habit for acting and not reacting. He has demonstrated an overall goodly nature, one that would undoubtedly lead him to become a Freedom Fighter were he not so timid-kind of like what happened in a similar parallel universe in Sonic Underground.

Scourge isn't Sonic's exact opposite, but rather has Sonic's qualities darkened and twisted. Sonic enjoys getting into a tussle every now and again; Scourge is willing to beat an opponent to death if not stopped. Sonic is something of a ladies man, roguishly charming and usually polite; Scourge is lewd and shallow, capable of matching Sonic's charm but not his respect towards the females he meets-Sonic is loyal to any girl he gets involved with, though he does often end up breaking up with them, but Scourge would ditch any woman he got attached to in a heartbeat if he lost interest.

As the thread's title says, Scourge is not Anti-Sonic; rather, he's Sonic if you were to take all of Sonic's personality traits and corrupt them a little. The same holds true of many of the Anti-Mobians, with the exception of a few: namely, Kintobor and Anti-Knuckles. In Kintobor's case, he has lightened versions of Robotnik's personality traits, and Anti-Knuckles has Knuckles Prime's traits with a different twist. Both Knuckleses (is that how you'd say it?) are very similar, but one is willing to fight for his island and friends no matter what while the other would prefer to seek out a peaceful solution.

Bottom line, Mobians and Anti-Mobians aren't exact opposites of each other, as the title says.

 
(@shigamado_1722585792)
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I find myself to be anti-Grizelda.

Only old people who know the Monkees will get that joke.

 
(@guitarpalooz)
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I'm listening to what you're saying, but here's the flaw...

the complete opposite of buddies in good is not buddies in evil.

The opposite of buddies in good is enemies in evil.

So if anti sonic and anti tails are evil (which is obvious), and they betray each other all the time (enemies), then it's truly anti.

For it to be an antirealm, EVERYTHING must be inverted.

 
(@alex-warlorn)
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Though ultimately, it must follow some of the base underlying rules of cause and effect for it have reached the point that it has.

And I'm basically reminded of Superman and Lord Superman from the Justice League animation. Lord Superman was a mockery of everything Superman stood for, a fun house mirror reflection. They were once similiar, but Lord Superman became something perverse.

 
(@hidoikijo)
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Is it mockery what they do? If I paint something then want to make the mock version I would distort it but not necessarily by doing the opposite. Spectre explained well and Alex has a point.

In the end, saying evil-Sonic would imply he does everything evil (without thinking so I guess we can say no conscious?!). Anyhow, I think that in the anti-universe everyone does things (and to an extreme) that their counterpart in Mobius Prime would not do.

I'm making this up at 3 am so I'm sorry if it makes no sense XD

 
(@craig-bayfield)
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Actually... Bizarro is the mirror house reflection of Superman (do a wiki search on Bizarro if you don't know him). Lord Superman was just an alternate if Superman allowed himself to become a dictator of justice.

The differencee is, Lord Superman still stands for Justice, but in such a dictatorship, moralless way that it's sheer opression. A common alternate future for the DC universe, given how it could so easily happen if humanity pushed him too far.

So, in other words, Lord Superman is what Superman could become if he ever lost his faith in humanity.

 
(@solo-the-bringer-of-chaos_1722027880)
Posts: 61
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Actually... Bizarro is the mirror house reflection of Superman (do a wiki search on Bizarro if you don't know him). Lord Superman was just an alternate if Superman allowed himself to become a dictator of justice.

I was think the same thing Craig but each time I do reminded of Ellen on "Sinfield" when confronted by Jerry on the subject.

Jerry: Bizarro is the mirror image of Superman, the complete opposite of him[Superman]

Ellen: So... he doesn't have have his powers?

Jerry: well no, he does have his powers.

Ellen: Is he black?

Jerry: No.

Ellen: well then how is he the opposite of Superman.

The whole thing of objects and people having opposites, anti's, and/or whatever is somewhat wierd because it changes due to perspection. Hell you can make an arguement of Clack Kent being Superman's true opposite.

 
(@spiner-storm)
Posts: 2016
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I wouldn't say Scourge is evil, by far.

He's selfish. Extremely, really selfish, but this is taking it to the extreme, because our Sonic still has this sense of compassion and helping people out.

Scourge is just in it for his own personal gain. Or the lulz. Kinda hard to tell which.

 
(@Anonymous)
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You've got a point, Spiner, but I wouldn't go so far to say that Evil Sonic/Scourge isn't evil. Rather, I'd say that he's not as evil as you would expect of a guy who has evil in his name. Evil comes in a variety of forms and magnitudes, which the Archie comics have been a constant example of. Scourge is ne'er do well, scaled back biker gang evil; he's not as bad as Dr. Robotnik, Enerjak, or Mammoth Mogul. Really, he's what Sonic would be if Sonic cast aside any sense of duty or justice and just used his powers and reputation for whatever he wanted. The term "Anti-" is something of a misnomer, I'll agree, because Anti- attached to someone's name would make you think that they are the complete and total opposite of whoever they're the counterpart of. Scourge isn't Sonic's total opposite: rather, he has darker versions of Sonic's traits. I suppose if you think about it, it would be better to call the concept "Dark Mobius".

 
(@alex-warlorn)
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Except of course, the only bad guy we've seen from that world, Dr. Kinbotor, is not ambitious, where Dr. Eggman is, and wants to help others, while Eggman of course wants others to serve him.

 
(@dragonash)
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This entire argument is why I would LOVE to see Anti-Shadow. Because either he would be the exact opposite of Shadow (making him the coolest, most original and interesting character ever created in the history of mankind), or a perversion of Shadow (making him rstional, decisive, and intelligent). No matter how you slice it, when you go for the opposite of Shadow, the end result is a million times better than the original.

 
(@Anonymous)
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Well, Dark Mobius is a bit misleading as well, now that I think about it. I guess a good name, were it not rather lame sounding, would be Mirror Mobius. When Mobius Prime and Anti-Mobius guys run into each other, it's like they're looking into a mirror and seeing their reflection. But as with all mirrors, the image and the reflection aren't exactly alike: they appear the same in many ways, but there are noticeable differences. With a normal mirror, you see your features reversed so that your left arm is your right arm, vice versa, and so on. In the case of "Mirror Mobius", Sonic and the gang would see themselves, but a number of things about them are different than what they should be.

The whole concept of Anti-Mobius kind of reminds me of the Mirror Universe from Star Trek. Characters from the primary universe and their counterparts had a number of similarities, but there were key differences. In the situation where the Anti-Freedom Fighters first impersonated their Mobius Prime selves, it was their behavior that gave them away just like what happened on the first Mirror Universe episode of Star Trek: the Prime characters could act like their violent, barbaric alternate selves, but the Mirror characters could not act the part of civilized beings. Now granted, this isn't always how it works; Anti-Antoine/Patch and Evil Sonic/Scourge were able to fool most of Knothole for a long time, but really a close examination of their actions would have revealed the falsehood. The real Antoine would not have broken up with Bunnie so abruptly as Patch did, knowing that it would hurt her deeply. As for Scourge, the real Sonic wouldn't be hitting on so many women that way, even though he has a bit of a history of attracting the feelings of those females.

The concept of an Anti-Shadow does sound interesting. If the rules of Anti-Mobians hold true to form, he would probably be very like his Prime counterpart but with a few key differences in behavior. He would probably act more rational and decisive, as you say, but I doubt intelligence would be a problem. Possibly he'd be more emotional: Shadow Prime keeps most of his emotions in but you know he's really a sensitive kind of guy, while Anti-Shadow would be displaying his emotions in a way that suggests that he really has trouble feeling anything or else has no underlying feelings.

 
(@alex-warlorn)
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Like I said, everyone keeps saying that the anti's only real difference is a lack of a moral compass, but Dr. Kinbotor is not just Lord Robotnik with a moral compass, so this theory is blown.

 
(@sailor-unicron)
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My mind always travels to Scourge from Transformers: RID whenever I think of Archie Scourge.

Anti-Shadow would be a hippie, and that would be completely hilarious.

 
(@Anonymous)
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You know Sailor, I often find myself thinking of the boys from Transformers when I read Scourge's name. Of course, RID Scourge was way cooler than Hedgehog Scourge, though at least he outranks the other losers who've had that name. But I do get the evil clone reference.

Anti-Mobius seems to have run it's course, so far as I've seen; last we saw, two of the AFFs may or may not be dead. Even if we do see it again, what are the chances of an Anti-Shadow?

 
(@sailor-unicron)
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Well you never can be too sure what Archie'll do. After all, I don't think that many of use thought that Enerjak would come back. But if they do use Anti-Mobius again, I hope Ian's at the helm.

 
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