I'm more familiar with roboticisation than the other thing. But I think that the comic has a new angle coming on with Robotnik's main offensive. That makes roboticisating (wtf? Have I spelt that right?) ineffective now that there is a remedy to that, thanks to the BEM. That left me thinking though... I wonder how effective the Egg-Grapes will be in the upcoming issues.

he's got to get occupants in those egg grapes first. but i dunno, maybe they could be useful.

No. I never liked the concept of roboticization as a child, and I still dislike it today. Eggman/Robotnik/ whatever the heck you want to call him is supposed to build robots, not use magic science that I would expect out some cheap B flick to turn animals into robots.

See what Toby Barret said. I always hated roboticization not only for the nonsense factor but I thought it was too dark for Sonic (in the way SatAM used it, but even the game version was rather silly).

I don't care what else they use, and they don't have to use anything in place of it. Eggman can just use force like any vilain would. Eggman hasn't used robots with animals other than in handheld games since SA2, and they haven't been prominent since SA, where they were actually part of the story. Before SA was 3D Blast which actually had a story excuse for it.

Ken Penders was planning on using the nanites as a new method of Robotization, if I'm not mistaken. Although the nanites wouldn't be able to absorb its victim, they would surround the victim and build a functional, robotic "shell" around the "robian."

Theoretically, the nanite shell around the robian could be broken or shattered into scrap metal if it was spin-attacked by Sonic, releasing the mobian inside (much like the SEGA games). Hopefully Ian will play this up since the nanites still exist and are just waiting to be activated over in the nanite city.

that'd make alot of sense, i did kinda like the permanant-ness of being roboticized. but that'd work out even better. it'd give a nice homage to the games.

Yes, they should bring back roboticization. It made the comic darker, and the concept was one of the things that distinguished this continuity from anything else Sega-born.

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It made the comic darker, and the concept was one of the things that distinguished this continuity from anything else Sega-born.

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At its core, the concept of "Robotnik trapping animals inside machines" has been present in the majority of Sonic games starting with the first, so I think it's rather likely that the roboticizer concept stemmed from that.

Also, I don't see how being locked in a capsule and having your soul/will/essense sucked out, eventually leaving the body a void husk, is any less dark than being locked in a tube and changed into a machine with no free will, which was ultimately reversable. Of the two, the former has less ties (read: none) to game concepts than the latter.

Well, they might not be based on the games, but it definetly makes me think of the Matrix's "Coppertops"...

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Yes, they should bring back roboticization. It made the comic darker, and the concept was one of the things that distinguished this continuity from anything else Sega-born.

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ok i know exactly where this is going, there's more than enough topics about your opinions about sega sonic vs satam. just leave this one be.

I'm pro-roboticization! =D

ok i know exactly where this is going, there's more than enough topics about your opinions about sega sonic vs satam. just leave this one be.

Well, c'mon...one can't have a discussion like this without some sort of SatAM vs. Sega debate. It should return. It may have been born from Sega's ideas, but it also came from other forms of sci-fi as well. That combination is what distinguished it. A living creature transformed into a mindless slave, turned against its loved ones is waaaayyy better than those stupid Egg-pawns.

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one can't have a discussion like this without some sort of SatAM vs. Sega debate

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yes we can. there's SSSSSSOOOOO many out there. by your own creation i might add.

besides roboticization has already been used and abused. it doesn't have to come back.

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A living creature transformed into a mindless slave, turned against its loved ones is waaaayyy better than those stupid Egg-pawns.

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do you even know what those were supposed to do?

Besides that, how can you claim that the Egg Pawns are worthless, if Sonic has'nt even gone up against a large group in the comic yet? They may be more efficient than Swatbots or Shadowbots, we don't know yet.

I don't view the comic OR the show as being dark. They each have strongpoints but they are diff'rent universes. As such you cannot expect them to be the same. If you limit yourself to the idea that one storyline is canon and a multi-media character (like Robotnik/Eggman) must always appear the same in each version you are just setting up for disappointment.

Yes, bring back the furry to tin plated machine! It's part of what made Eggman EVIL!

Yes, because turning rodents into walking trashcans is much more evil than sucking out thier life force, leaving nothing but an empty husk.

Or killing his own daughter.

Eggman's not really short of acts of evil.

I always liked the symbolism of Roboticization. The fact that one could have their soul, their personality, removed; and be turned into an actual cog in the very machine that robbed them of themselves. It's like what the Matrix was about, except that Roboticization came first. The whole, be apart of or fight against the system/machine aspect. I always liked that. Plus, no matter how strong the egg pawns are, it's not as scarring to Sonic to have to fight them as it was for him to have to fight his Uncle Chuck, and Muttski.

I say bring it back!

I know the Egg-Pawns are worthless, because I've played Sonic Heroes, and taken them on en masse. They are just fodder for smashing and killing...the only time I ever was hurt by an Egg-Pawn was when the controls spazzed, and an attack failed to execute. On top of that, they look stupid, sound stupid, and generally are stupid. They're stupid wind-up toys. Sega committed a real blunder in ever creating them, and if they are anything like that in Archie, then Sonic has nothing to worry about. Scratch and Grounder would pose more of a threat.

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A living creature transformed into a mindless slave, turned against its loved ones is waaaayyy better than those stupid Egg-pawns.

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If you are referring to the Egg-grapes, the purpose of them was to turn creatures into mindless slaves and against their loved ones. The only difference was that they weren't going to be robots, which actually would make it much harder to fight. Fly Fly Freddy (for example) was totalled as a robot and there was hope of fixing him (even if he was never seen again). Similarly, Uncle Chuck was once partially crushed, but was fixed and fine again due to being a robot. If the mindless slave isn't a robot, hurting the creature could result in permanent damage that cannot be fixed.

Granted, the last issue I've even read is #167 so I'm not sure whether I'm even referring to the same thing as you are. However, personally, while the Egg grapes hadn't been used (just their purpose was hinted at in Return to Angel Island) from what I remember, I do think that the egg grapes are a lot worse than roboticization.

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I know the Egg-Pawns are worthless, because I've played Sonic Heroes, and taken them on en masse. They are just fodder for smashing and killing...

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And I've beaten Metal Sonic several times in Sonic CD, so therefore Metal Sonic is worthless and there can never & have never been comics where Metal Sonic was a dangerous threat.

For that matter, Sonic has pounded the snot out of Swatbots easily before. Are they worthless?

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if they are anything like that in Archie, then Sonic has nothing to worry about.

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In Archie, Eggman is using his Egg Fleet, which is massive and full of guns and could probably reduce Knothole to a crater on its own. He's got HUNDREDS of those warships.

Oh, don't compare Metal Sonic to the Egg-Pawns. Those are two different things. He was a pushover in Sonic CD, but he adapted and got more powerful. The pawns on the other hand, were dumb in Heroes, they were dumb in Shadow, and they were dumber in Rush. Swatbot's may be dim, but they are still miles ahead of pawns.

And Robotnik should've used his fleet to annihilate Knothole at the end of "Darkest Hour". A real villain is an opportunist who would've taken down an enemy at their weakest moment.

And I was referring to roboticization...not the Egg Grapes.

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The pawns on the other hand, were dumb in Heroes, they were dumb in Shadow, and they were dumber in Rush.

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So, they're just like the Badniks from the old Mega Drive games then. And I've read comics (and Virgin books) that made them seem far more dangerous and impressive than in the games - it's not out of the question that Ian plans to make the Pawns more formidable.

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And Robotnik should've used his fleet to annihilate Knothole at the end of "Darkest Hour".

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I'll give you that, he missed a trick there. Hopefully there's an answer for why now and not then in #175.

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A real villain is an opportunist who would've taken down an enemy at their weakest moment.

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Actually, I find villains that bide their time and do things at their own choosing when heroes are at peak strength (or close to it) and win much better than those that just beat up on heroes when they're down.

Maybe he'll explain why Eggman's let Sonic off the hook multiple times now with the onset of #175...but I'm not holding my breath. A real villain doesn't need to explain his actions either. Maybe that's the angle Ian's going for...I dunno.

Here's the simple answer I can think of.. The old Murphy's Rule of Combat:

"The Enemy only attacks during two times: when he's ready, and when you're not."

Robotnik's been building up his forces, holding back until he was ready to strike.

And he'll strike just when the Freedom Fighters are busy celebrating the marriage of Bunnie and Antoine, and hence when they'll have their guard moderately down.

After all, if Robotnik had just assaulted Sonic on his own those times, he'd still have the rest of the FFs to deal with.

Eggman had the perfect opportunity to defeat Sonic AND the rest of the Freedom Fighters at the end of The Darkest Storm. As he says in his speech, "I could wipe you off the map!" and given that he defeated all of the enemies in one swoop, I'm inclined to believe he could have. The worst case scenario for him is that he'd only manage to capture some of them. So there's really no good reason for him NOT to have taken that perfect opportunity. I'm sure hoping Ian brings out a good explanation for it. I've always been annoyed by the time the villain had a perfect opportunity to defeat their hated nemesis but don't for no good reason. The best way to resolve an explanation as to why they don't finish them off is to show that the villain needed them alive for some purpose (i.e. the hero will solve some riddle the villain can't figure out, they'll end up collecting something for the villain, etc.)

Anyway, roboticization doesn't seem to be particularly necessary to the plot now, and bringing it back will probably just be for nostalgia reasons.

So the Egg Grapes make them mindles/souless.

Why do I have the feeling the freedom fighters will be on top of a hut, while a bunch of mindless mobians group around it en mass like Dead Rising.

OH! Zombie Mobians! Maybe they could do a Sonic ZOMBIES like they did for marvel. But really cool would be a Sonic Zone where the people are the playable monsters in White-Wolfs World of Darkness Setting.

It does'nt make them mindless, it makes them lifeless. Nothing but empty husks.

If they are nothing but empty husks, doesn't that mean that they probably have no personality and no free will. If so, wouldn't they be mindless then (as in cant think for themselves and only think one thing "Fallow Robotnik".

No, it makes them dead.

Which takes the whole fun out of it. D=

Alot more effective, considering dead people can't turn on you, the way the roboticized mobians did every other issue.

It doesn't necessarily make them dead. Weren't the Destructrix, Mammoth Mogul, and Ixis Nagus normal (for the most part, and using a very loose definition of "normal") after they were rescued from the Egg Grapes?

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It doesn't necessarily make them dead. Weren't the Destructrix, Mammoth Mogul, and Ixis Nagus normal (for the most part, and using a very loose definition of "normal") after they were rescued from the Egg Grapes?

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Yes, but only because they were shielded from the effects. Arachnis's kids weren't so lucky, you might remember.

Ah, point. But still, an Egg Grape Zombie attack would make an interesting plot line, one must admit.

Of course.

Break out the shotguns!

I liked the idea of roboticization, it made Robotnik a more serious villain IMO. It was a cruel way for him to control the creatures. Whatever or not they should bring it back, however, I am not sure. It depends on if they could bring it back well. Edited to clear things up, I was thinking mainly about AoStH vs. Sonic Sat a.m. for the most part, not Archie today.

So if there's something I guess I was supposed to learn from this thread, it's that if I want to be taken as a serious villain, I need to turn the population around me into walking toasters that have no trouble betraying me. Likewise, creating a machine that sucks the very life out of a person will do nothing but make the population see me as a comical no goodnik.

lol, that depends on who you listen to Toby.

You miss the point, Toby. Turning a friend into an enemy though some sort of process is a way more compelling storytelling tool than just killing the character and being done with them. And in some circles, its perceived as "more evil".

Yet, more often than than not, the friend-turned-enemy becomes a friend again.

At least the Robians had their life. It may not be a good one, but I'd rather be turned into a robot than have the life sucked out of me.

If he were to go about killing off Mobians (which I presume has already been going on all through the series), the Egg Grapes is an illogical manner. I mean, Robotnik said himself that there were easier and quicker methods to collect energy from the void, and with Robians, at least you get a good source of man-- er, mobianpower.

To quote Eggman himself, Sonikku.... "Yes, but then where would be the fun in it?"

The deaths of all the people in the egg grapes was largley glossed over. They all die, and then...that's it, no looks of horror on anyone's faces, nothing like that. Rouge briefly mentions it in "Leak" but even then it seems like none of the characters are paying attention. Add onto that that it was mainly characters that no one cared about anyway, and it's easy to see why it's not taken too seriously. Also, technically it was Anonymous (A.D.A.M.) who caused them all to die, not Eggman. Eggman's utter indifference to it is a bit chilling, but he still isn't the one who did it. He may have killed Tommy, but given how much Tommy was despised by the fans, that's another thing that doesn't exactly make him seem evil.

With roboticizing the victims are frequently characters you actually care about (i.e. Uncle Chuck) and if they're roboticized they still DO make appearances, they're not just written out of the story. Thus, the act of roboticization makes him seem much more evil.

All that said, I'd prefer they leave roboticization out of it. It doesn't seem necessary for the comic anymore, and the games haven't had it for quite some time.

Roboticization was never in the games. Sure, Eggman used the animals as batteries, but he did'nt physically turn them into robots.

Honestly, though, I wonder what other creative ways Archie will come up with to die (of sorts) on Mobius. I mean, currently we've got:

-Roboticization
-Egg Grapes
-Losing your memory and being turned into an emerald statue in the Void (Though I'm not sure if this even applies anymore)
-The Xorda's Gene Bomb and Dial... thing...

...I know I'm missing a number of others...

The games DID have roboticization, just quite different from the comic/cartoon. In the games, the robots the animals are turned into don't have to look anything like their normal selves, and apparently destroying the robots will turn them back into the animals. This was done all the way up through Sonic Adventure 2 (the robots that didn't leave behind animals when destroyed were the GUN Robots or robots that defended the ARK; the ones made by Eggman, like in the pyramid levels, DID turn back into animals when destroyed).