OH SNAPZ.

This sounds like a really BAD fanfic story. I hope that it is so...

Huh. Sanford's covers are getting better.

The...what? This is one of the weirdest sounding Sonic stories I've ever heard. Ian says that it is part of the M:25YL storyline and he IS writing it...

Hmm. Closure. Just one more thing Ian can close the book on. I'll grant that this guy is methodical at least.

Why don't we just give Ian the benefit of the doubt before this hits the shelves hmmmm? I finally just got #160 and #161 and I must say I was impressed to say the least. There have been a lot of people out there asking what happened since the last installment of M25YL, so why not give them their due? That way if it sucks then at least it'll be over with.

From the sounds of it, I wouldnt be surprised if Ian's rescuing Archie for the debacle by picking up Ken's cruddy story and doing a decent job of it. Give the guy a chance. I wouldn't be surrpised if it turns out to be a GOOD story. Shadow aside. (Maybe he dies? XD That would be good.)

Personally I'm not gonna judge the story from the cover... I wouldn't be surprised if the story turns out to be totally different to what we expect to to be (Snce Ken created it, that would equal a load of rubbish.)

I am a little surprised that Ken is not writing this, just because he started this story line. So far, I have not liked M25YL that much, in part because of Sonic's attitude in that storyline, and how some of the other characters are protrayed. However, I will wait and see what Ian does with this; maybe he can redeem this storyline.

Even though Sonic #166 and #167 are not out yet. I have a real bad feeling that Ian has just screwed up the M25YL even more then Ken ever did in fact I think Ian will bury Archie Comics six feet under by the time Sonic #200 comes out. Cuz that is the biggest bunch of B.S. I have ever seen. This is what Ian sould of done. Instead of King Shadow ruling with an iron fist and his Chief Inforcer Knuckles. It sould of been King Tails and his Chief Inforcer Shadow as well as his 2.nd Inforcer Knuckles that rules over Mobius with an iron fist. Plus every one knows that Tails is supposed to be even more powerful then Shadow, Knuckles and Sonic!

Because Tails generally shows that he has the motivation and, more importantly, disposition to do such a thing, right?

Nevermind that Ian already did that kind of angle years ago with Other-M.

Whoa; show down, Rattrap2000. That's pretty cynical of you to say. You know the cliched (yet honest) saying; "don't judge a book by its cover."

*ARGH.* My posts keep disappearing... or something. Oh well, EE said what I was going to say, only in fewer words.

I don't like M25YL for reasons said on previous topics, mostly Ken's work. I hold out hope for Ian's take on it though.

I'm a bit skeptical on the whole King Shadow deal, and I hate M25YL, but Ian has got me liking this comic again in only 2 issues, so I'm willing to see how this goes before I criticize. Plus, Tracy's art has been a delight to see. As for the covers, I still don't like Greene's work, but it looks better, so it could grow on me yet.

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Whoa; show down, Rattrap2000. That's pretty cynical of you to say. You know the cliched (yet honest) saying; "don't judge a book by its cover."

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Yeah, EE, but you know rattrap is known for his extreme love of Tails the Chosen One not to mention his hatred of Sonic in particular since the whole Evil Sonic flirting story. So, him writing about it that way is really no surprise; though, I admit I thought the same things before I saw that Rattrap was the one that posted it.

Well, it does sound like a fanfic, but I won't condemn it for that. I've read hundreds of books and hundreds (maybe thousands?) of fanfics, and some of the latter have been truly moving pieces of literature (ah, for the heydays of Ranma 1/2 fanfiction...). Of course most fanfics suck. But frankly most books do, too.

I've never parted with a cent to get info from this continuity, but I'll certainly keep an eye open and an ear on the ground. Which should leave half my face dirty and something irritating my vision.

As someone who writes Tails with a more malicious touch, I think there is the angle of him (now) being the Eggman Counterpoint Character. Thus, him becoming an Eggman-like character has an ironic appeal. Certainly, it has more shock and bite to it than Shadow, who is naturally morally ambiguous. Poor Knux, tho, gets passed over for the top spot - still, he had his unofficial fun in O-M.

I'll give Ian the benefit of the doubt on this. Hopefully, he can nail the coffin shut on Penders' bloated ego-child once and for all, and we can actually get back to discussing stories with some relevance to the continuity.

Apologies for sounding ranty, but given the concept of a "reset future", I hope that we're finally going to get it rammed home within the main storyline that nobody's future's written in stone.

I like the sound of this. Alternate future stories can be well written, and this would be a fantastic way to mark the end of what is apparently one of the worst sagas in the Sonic the Hedgehog continuity. It seems interesting, and for two issues only, that's justifiably enough.

I don't mind the cover art either, I actually thought it was quite cool, rather.

I really need to pick this book up again.

Well, Ken gave his half of the story on M25YL.

Allow me to quote him from www.kenpenders.com:

"I had written a 2-parter as my swan song for the book, and if Ian is now claiming the next M25YL story is by him, it means one of two things, either

A) Mike asked him to write a story that occurs before mine

or

B) Mike jettisoned mine in favor of Ian rewriting it, which is Mike's perogative as editor.

From a continuity standpoint, I can't imagine what Ian would do that occurs between SONIC #144 and my story without some serious tap-dancing, so I'm inclined to believe option B is the more likely scenario.

At this point, as I have no involvement with the book whatsoever, whatever sees print is beyond my control. Archie paid me for my scripts, so I can't claim foul.

As for Ian's stories, beyond the one I worked on as an inker, I have yet to read any and even if I had, I would still not comment as I feel it would be very unfair to him.

I've since moved on to other things, which I'll be talking about on my home page very soon."

"...Shadow is married to Sally, and they have no kids, which was at Mike's request, necessitating a rewrite as I originally had them with children. Mike felt that establishing Sally having children in an alternate future with someone else would leave readers upset with the realization that these kids could no longer exist once the status quo was returned. In other words, without saying it, Mike had decided the future of M:25YL was now set in stone on the basis of Sonic's and Knuckles' children now being established fan favorite characters with the readers. Whatever he and Ian do with M:25YL at this point is just them trying to have their cake and eat it too."

*sighs and bangs head on desk*

Turn around, drop your trousers and bend over, Ken - I can't hear the orifice that you're talking out of very well.

"In other words, without saying it, Mike had decided the future of M:25YL was now set in stone on the basis of Sonic's and Knuckles' children now being established fan favorite characters with the readers. Whatever he and Ian do with M:25YL at this point is just them trying to have their cake and eat it too."

Let me rephrase that:

"In other words, Ken Penders' thwarted ego is so desperate to have its baby regarded as canon that he'll say any old bull even when he knows and will admit that there's no management support or evidence for it, just to:

1. Get one last shot at infamy.

2. Slag off the people who replaced him and made the fans appreciate that there was an alternative writer, who actually gave a darn about what they thought.

3. Keep people talking about this waste of perfectly good trees before another writer puts it to bed, he himself fades out of view and Sonic fans cease to care."

I'm sorry, but any credibility that that man's word had died a long, long time ago - sometime inbetween the mystical movie revelations, telling the fans that anyone who didn't appreciate his genius had no imagination and should just be grateful for what they were given, publicly contradicting J.F. Gabrie on Desperate Echidna Housewives: 25 Freakin' Issues Later being nothing more than a possible future and publicly attacking Karl Bollers just because he wouldn't allow Ken to hijack the main continuity, too.

He had his chance. His own arrogance blew it. If he had any sense, he'd see that and keep his head down.

Amen to THAT. Ken's out of the picture, and needs to stay out... the last year or so of issues (before 160) prove that. Not to mention the Green Knuckles Saga and screwing around with Dawn Best's art......

Enough of that, though. Ian can make this good if it's done right... M25YL (Or K20YL, originally) had so much potential, I'd like to see it done right.

I am a little upset that Sally is married to someone else in this storyline. I want Sonic and Sally's marriage to be set in stone eventually, and will not accept any future for them other than being happily(basically) married. For me, and I am sure most if not all Sonic and Sally's fans, it is not about wherever or not it is a possible future; it is that we want it to be real, as much as it possibly can for a fictional world. I think that is the real issue with all fans that are passionate about this issue on either side; what we want the future to be. Hopfully, it will be reset so it will at least still be possible, though.

Agreed, DC. From what you'll see below, I'm pretty sure it will be reset again. ^^

Anyhow, Ken's posted another intriguing message. Quoted:

"I consider any M:25YL story I've written as part of the official canon, even the last one I wrote, because the status is qup at the end. At least the version I wrote.

Initially, I did not want to pair up Shadow with Sally, but Mike requested this, and as he's the editor, that plot point was his call. The bottom line was always still the same, though, as King Sonic eventually returned to his own timeline 25YL."

I'm not quite sure if Ian is exactly following Ken's origonal story that he was payed for. I can't speak for him, but I'm guessing he's following the origonal plans that Mike Pellerito instructed them to rewrite, adding his loved "potto twist." Is that right, Ian?

With Shadow and Sonic both wearing crowns, I'm slightly confused. Was Sonic King, then Shadow took over? Or was Shadow King to begin with and having Sonic wear a crown is supposed to mess with us?

I presume the 25YL future has been rebooted due to the events of #144, so now the future is a dystopia ruled by Shadow.

Yes but we may get some answers real soon too, inculding maybe the deal on how M25YL's Tails and Mina got togther.

We'll have to wait and see.

Ian Flynn did Other M?
I thought that was Ian Potto.
If they are one in the same, then
Archie Sonic now has one of the best
comic book writers I've ever seen!
I love Other M, and am still miffed how
the whole Chaos issue with Snively and Rotor
was left incomplete. Other M is a masterpiece.
Maybe Ian can turn Archie Sonic back into one also.

EDIT:
Whoops. I just realized that Ian Potto is Ian Flynn, seeing as that's his screen name here. I'm new. Forgive me.

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I love Other M, and am still miffed how
the whole Chaos issue with Snively and Rotor
was left incomplete.

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It's not "left incomplete" - just making extremely slow progress.

What the heck are you talking about?!

It's a web comic (that I don't read just heard about) that Ian wrote (maybe still is) before he came to Archie.

It's amazing. It's at Sonicverse comics or something, google Sonicverse.

Yep, that's the same Ian. I'll be disappointed if Other M stays unresolved, too - but at least it'd be because Ian'll hopefully be allowed to put that sort of quality out to a wider audience.

Very well spoken Samanfur! :3

I actually loved M25YL in the beginning, but then something happened...and it's called irrelevance to a blasted POINT for the story. (Could have at least did MORE of Lara-Su becoming a guardian or something that people care about.) I still don't understand why if the zones were fluxing how getting off Mobius would help. The whole universe would be effected no DUHR! >__o That was a major thing that bothered me was about the blasted continiuty issue of the whole distruction of Mobius, which in fact, never took place and was only talked about. *blink blink blink confuseled*

I just got really sick and tired of broken promises and having great expectations to issues that ended up having no major effect at all. (Being promised a return of Enerjak for the past 5-6 years had something to do with it too, and it never happened. My young teenage fangirl heart was broken.) ;__;

I'm actually looking FORWARD to this M25YL because it apparently has a blasted POINT to the story: Closure. I like closure. Yes I do.

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PLUS: Sonic's friends throw him another party to make up for the one Dr. Robotnik crashed. and ruined! If you're wondering just how wrong Sonic's 15th anniversary celebration can go, hold on tight. because Sonic will find out in this issue over and over and over again! Features art by the original series penciler Dave Manak!

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The other story in Sonic #167 since I don't see it mentioned.

Thanks, TR. I updated the first post.

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Features art by the second series penciler Dave Manak!

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Fixed. Now, if they said Scott Shaw!, that'd be something to get excited over. As it is, Dave just hasn't been on the ball for a loooong time. But I digress. I'm curious to see just how many things could go wrong with Sonic's birthday in 6 or so pages.

I just saw the preview for this at Archie and was like "WTF? King Shadow?!" This story sounds kinda rediculous, but I think I'll wait till it comes out first. I am quite happy to see Stanford back. I really like his style.

oh jesus christ, dave manak again?! i thought he was just going to stay in offpanel. i'll add more later, but i'm facing a small bout of insomnia right now, so i'm going to go to sleepybye now.

Whoa King Shadow? Also the covers look a lot like the ones from Marvel Comics Civil War.