..Oooh Tails hit Sonic in the back of the head!

Knux leaves.

Andddd that's it. ::Goes back to 300::

Pretty much, yeah. This is all a set-up issue. XD

(ignore this post)

You know by reading this small summarie, I have feeling A Compomise may be worked out in 179 or Ian's going to give us a twist, and DA does Tails say anything while he's beating down on Sonic.

And that makes BW's third warning for repeatedly ignoring requests not to double post - and a ban under the "Three strikes" rule.

Gah! I want to read this, but my local comic stores haven't even gotten #177 in yet.

Judging from DA's review, I agree completely with Amadeus. Sonic and co. were mere gurrilla(sp?) warriors, and they did more against Robotnik than the monarchs ever did. Besides, as I've said before, you've got to wonder about a monarch that at one point relied on a pool for making decisions, like ordering Sally to marry Antoine.

I know it's too much to hope for, but do we still need the Acorn line in power?

They haven't even gotten 177? Even the supermarkets around here have 177, and they're often horrible with comics. I finally decided to subscribe.

Sounds like a stage is being set. Funny how Sonic is gonna act now that Tails attacked him from behind. I hope I get this issue soon.

well atleast we know that Amadeus actually had some merit to his arguement.

Amadeus does make a good point, and it shows you that while he may be taking things a bit too far, he's a lot better than King Max. Max has some crazy idea in his head (one too many years in the Zone of Silence, if you catch my drift) that the monarchy has an unchallengable right to rule and that despite their failures they'll manage to come out on top. I just have to say it: hasn't he noticed that the monarchy is going down?

Bear with me: Elias' kids can't take the throne, Elias himself is beginning to doubt that he should be king (for the umpteenth time), and all Sally has to do is refuse to be queen and let democracy take over once her brother has given up the crown and the House of Acorn will just be another family-if of somewhat high stature. Given that Sally has shown her own dislike for being royalty, I wouldn't be surprised if she did so. Certainly, it would make her job as a Freedom Fighter easier. And given that the Freedom Fighters are, in Amadeus' view-and that of many others, no doubt-the only ones who have done anything really productive against Robotnik for the Kingdom since the war began, this would be a great way for the archaic rule of the House of Acorn to end and for a new style of government to take over.

Tails and Sonic's antagonism has been building since Fiona started dating Sonic, and given Sonic's long history of failing to properly resolve arguments with his friends-see relationship between him and Sally -them getting into a fight was bound to happen sooner or later. The question is, can they work out all the pent up hostility in this fight, or will their friendship be altered-perhaps ended-forever?

As for Knuckles leaving for Angel Island on his lonesome: total setup for him being the new Enerjak. Or, if he turns out not to be, then just a setup for his disappearance after the new Enerjak is born.

Even though I don't have the issue yet, I too have to agree with what Amadeus Prower is doing. If I remember right it was Amadeus that found out about Robotnik's coup. In fact I think he knew ever since he regained his real non-robot fox body back again. That the Acorn monarchy has been nothing but a big faillure.

As far as Sonic and Tails go's, I've kind of known for alittle over the last ten years that the two best friends. Would end up having a major falling out. And having a big time fist fight with each other, but I just didn't know when it would happen? I can't wait to get STH issue's #178 and #179!

Well, at least Mr. Prower used the actions of the FFs to justify his moves, as opposed to what I'd feared he'd use. That being...the time he spent amongst the Bem having awakened him to the real super power of democracy.

But frankly, I'm just not buying the Amadeus Ian has given us...the Amadeus I was aquainted with was a "casualty" of war defendig the crown and what it represented. He was a respected leader, and a friend to the king. In short, he was loyal to the crown. But this version...a guy who, almost from the moment he got back to Mobius began thinking about and outlining a replacement government for what he now sees as a weak, antiquated monarchy, just seems, I dunno...like just some arbitrary plot development Ian has pulled out of his bum to satisfy the scenario.

Amadeus' change of heart likely stems from the fact that the Kingdom of Acorn he left behind some 12 years ago isn't the one he came back too. No doubt he lost faith after getting up to date on events and seeing that the House of Acorn had proven to be much less effective than they had in the past. True, maybe his time in space unrattled him a little bit, but I think it more likely that he's become disenchanted with the monarchy he thought he knew.

Concerning the Freedom Fighters, Amadeus is quite right in this regard. With little to no aid from the royal family-excluding Sally, who's the leader of the group-the Freedom Fighters have managed to do more damage by themselves to Robotnik over the years than the House of Acorn-backed by all the Kingdom's resources-has accomplished in the several years since it was reinstated through Max, Elias, and Alicia's return.

Maybe I'll buy that time and experience could have caused his drastic change of heart...maybe what I'm really not liking is the timing of it. Ian has Amadeus pull this coup just eight issues after Amadeus and Rosemary reunite with Tails? And just three after Knothole gets destroyed? It's too soon for my tastes...thus making it seem arbitrary and pulled out of the butt. I would have preferred that it happen fifteen or more issues after Amadeus and Rosemary rejoin the Mobian fold...and that it happen after a series of events take place where Elias makes decisions that clearly show he's not the right one to be in charge, which causes the disenchantment.

And I'm not buying that Tails would so readily and quickly back his father. I know he's been frustrated with Sonic a lot lately...but Sonic has been more like family to Tails than the Prowers. To see that kinship dissolve so suddenly just seems...not right.

The first thing I want to say is: the revolution is here! Do you hear the people sing(to quote the musical "Les Miserables)? Lets hope this turn out better than in Les Miserables. It sounds like Amadeus made the best point for change, it has been the Freedom Fighters that have kept the kingdom from being totally destoryed all these years, and would be understandable that some would be losing confidence in the crown. I still question Amadeus' intentions though, wherever they are noble(for the good of the kingdom or not). Max's attitude about this is a real problem. Poor Sonic, it must be hard for him because he has friends on both sides. What I am hoping for is some kind of compromise and that the crown will at least be less powerful, especailly for Sally's sake. That way I think she will be truly free. This story sounds good so far. I am thinking of buying this issue, but I probably will wait until the next issue and buy it along with that, from the online company I have been buying from.

Quote:

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Elias' kids can't take the throne,

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Correction: Alexis can't take the throne since she was quietly retconned into a step-daughter.

The line of legitimate blood succession still works as it ever did, with Sally next in line if Elias remains without a legitimate heir. But since Archie obviously has problems with the concept of teen pregnancies, the succession relies on having competent enough leadership for Elias and Sally to survive and breed.

I'm pleased to see how this seems to be turning out. It sounds as though this is exactly what I was hoping for (and you guys've seen me discussing here), rather than Amadeus being made out to be just another antagonist who it'll be easy to make the readers hate.

Quote:

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The first thing I want to say is: the revolution is here!

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Yeah, I am definitely rooting for the Prowers to win. Royalty was one of my top turnoffs to SatAM.

Ack, it's already here? Well it looks promising and nice to see they are taking a mature approach to his revolution...I'm just glad we can get it over with already. I'm going to make a call to my comic shop to see if they have it yet.

Quote:

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And I'm not buying that Tails would so readily and quickly back his father. I know he's been frustrated with Sonic a lot lately...but Sonic has been more like family to Tails than the Prowers. To see that kinship dissolve so suddenly just seems...not right.

---

Why not? He's been separated from them for his entire life, of course he's going to jump at the chance to get to know his parents, even if it means participating in overthrowing the throne. And Sonic hasn't exactly been the brother figure he once was as of late. In fact, apart from the last few issues, the Freedom Fighters seemed to have lost that close-knit family feeling they once had.

In fact, the only reason I can see for Sonic to even help Max would be for Sally's sake. I find it hard to believe that after all that's happened between him and Max that he would still stand by him. I mean, he practically forbade him and Sally from seeing each other. Not to mention, he almost forced Sally into marrying that other Antoine, if I'm remembering right.

She did marry him.

In the spirit of showing the sort of responsible behaviour that aged Bunnie by four years and made Alexis a step-child, Archie gave Sally a thoroughly wholesome Britney-style annulment about five minutes after the ceremony.

Commitment and thinking things through? Gee, what're those?

Quote:

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Well, at least Mr. Prower used the actions of the FFs to justify his moves, as opposed to what I'd feared he'd use. That being...the time he spent amongst the Bem having awakened him to the real super power of democracy.

---

After schooling Elias on the FF's vs. the monarchy, Amadeus wraps up his point by saying he wants "a government run by its people." Though again, the crown doesn't have a lot going for it, especially now with a ruler bearing no experience or confidence in his command.

As Spectre pointed out...
"Given that Sally has shown her own dislike for being royalty, I wouldn't be surprised if she did so."

why do i have the feeling that max is gonna give her some guilt trip about refusing to take the crown? remember, max nearly made sally marry "patch" (AKA Anti-Antoine).

Dang then...Elias could step down, then sally would be forced from another guilt trip from papi to become queen. *again*

sheesh...and we only get two issues to get this all figured out!

I am definitely rooting for the Prowers to win.

Royalty and monarchies have had their day, in this and the real world.

GO FORTH FOR THE REVOLUTION! ">

After Sally's "Decision" in #177, I'm thinking her response if Max tries to guilt trip her would be "With all due respect... Shove it, Father."

I think Sally's through with just going along with what Daddy Wants.

HAHA!
That'd be great to see sally tell her father to shove it. Even better if it was put into the comics for all to see! XD

Max: "Sally, with your brother stepping down as king, we need you to become queen of the monarchy!"
Sally: "You know what father?"
Max: "What??"
Sally: "STFU!" :">
Max: *his brain suddenly stops functioning or something*

LOL XD

Yes, this would be a good time to address Sally's unresolved issues with her father. I agree that she is probably through with going along with her father, and I like to think she is strong enough again to tell him no. Also, I believe what is best for kingdom is also best for Sally, they needed more democratic reforms for awhile.

Since someone brought up the subject, I am not sure if Sonic knows everything that has gone on between Sally and her father, he may know or figured out some things. My guess is that Sonic still doesn't know the whole truth. If/when Sonic finds out everything I think he will be mad at Max. Also, I feel sorry for Elias too, he is a good creature who is paying the price for his father's mistakes IMO. I am sure Sonic is going to try his best set things right with Tails, and make sure Sally and the other innocent ones in the Acorn family are not harmed.

Was this a 22-page issue or is there somthing like a backup story or profiles?

Oh yeah. The rest of the book was Data-Files, mostly on the new city:

Freedom HQ (Exterior and Interior)
Library
Civic Center
Marketplace
Castle Acorn
New Mobotropolis

Tracy said that he thought his artwork for these Data-Files would come for this issue and the next one. I just wanted to confirm it. Thank for telling me.

As much of a point that General Prowler has: there is something seriously not right about this entire thing!

Tails going at Sonic for blood: someone PLEASE tell me this is a nightmare!!!

Elias is the ruler, so Max should have no say whatsoever. If Max was able to talk Elias into imprisoning Amadeus, then I doubly think that nipping Elias in the bud before he becomes too firmly moulded in Daddy's image is a good idea.

I wonder if Sally's going to be forced to choose between the crown and the FFs again - or alternatively, if Max keeps pulling Elias' strings from the back - wind up disinherited if she takes the wrong side.

It'd solve the inheritance business for a while - and free her up to go back to the FFs and down a more SatAM-centric route, if Ian wanted to.

Elias imprisoned Amadeus, but while he was planning to send him to trial, Max just wants him punished, without question. You really do get this bitter frustration towards the monarchy for that one.

Based on the last post, Elias seems to know what he is doing.

I just realized what IS wrong with this picture!
The Bem's demoncracy wanted to execute the scientist for curing the robians because it disobeyed an out of context kreed and that's what General Prowler is saying he's inspired by!!

PLUS: Amandus only have support of 50% of Knotehole... reality check, all geo-political comments aside, Amanadus' point of view is only of every OTHER mobian. He does NOT represent the majority.

ALSO: I can NOT believe that Tails is chosing his birth parents who he's only known for less than a year, over those who ACTUAL raised him (Sonic and Sally!!!).

WTF is going on here?!

Alex, in relation to your horror at Tails rejecting Sonic and Sally, let me point out a few things. First, Tails has wanted a real family as long as he's been aware that he doesn't have one, and getting them back is probably so wonderful for him that he's willing to overlook a few radical views. Besides which, Sally's become more distanced from the Freedom Fighters by her royal duties while Sonic's relationship with Tails has degenerated to the point where they're willing to tear each other apart. If you were in such a situation, who would you go with: the parents who you'd been longing for as far back as you could remember, or the friends who have now ditched you because of their own concerns.

Going to what you've said about the Bem democracy, I'm sure that Amadeus has nothing that extreme in mind. Remember, Amadeus said he was INSPIRED by Bem democracy, and sadly all we saw of that was the execution deal you mentioned. For all we know, the rest of Bem governing is exactly the kind of government Mobius could use right now. The monarchy has proven ineffective, Elias and Sally really want nothing to do with ruling, and Max's continued health crises should convince the guy to stop acting like such a jerk. Democracy is a logical step, as it's clear that the rule of the House of Acorn isn't helping the Kingdom all that much.

Sure, maybe Amadeus only has 50% of the public's support, but that may just be open support. It could be that a larger percentage of the population is in favor of a change, but that the rest of them are either too scared to oppose the royal family or are unwilling to form a new government in the middle-they hope-of a war.

As has been said, this is also a good opportunity for the members of the House of Acorn to have some heart to heart chats. Sally needs to work out the repeated disputes with her father, and I agree that it would be cool to see her give him a piece of her mind. Max needs to learn that just because he was the king doesn't mean that he's always right, and Elias needs to become the kind of king who can pave the way for change in the Kingdom, whether by dissolving the monarchy in favor of democracy or by changing the monarchy into a better system of government.

Max also needs to stop acting like Sonic is dirt; I'm pretty sure he's been poisoned against him ever since Sally said she had considered marrying him. When you repeatedly face health issues due to attempted murder, imprisonment, and other such circumstances, you really shouldn't be dissing on your people's hero. His bullheadedness is no doubt what sent Amadeus on the warpath, and if you think about it the whole situation is really his fault because he failed to recognize the need for reform.

I'd also like to address something Erinacus (sorry if I spelled it wrong) said about Tails and Sonic's kinship dissolving so quickly: it didn't. The gap between them, like that between Knuckles and Locke, has been growing for a long time. All it took was one big event to bring them to the edge-the way things are going, they could end up making amends or forever hating each other.

By the way, whoever said that Archie made Bunnie four years older, that was AMY. Also, when did they make Alexis Elias' step-daughter? Sounds lame to me; Meg and Elias were probably old enough at the time that it wouldn't be a teen pregancy.

Don't forget, by that same logic, that some of Amandus' 50% could just be people who out just to cause chaos (every group has them) were bored, or see Amandus having high charisma rather than actually agreed with his point of view.

And strange when I look at Amandus, I hear "Peace, land and bread!"

And onyl Elise' only real character flaw that weakens him as a ruler is listening to everyone's opinions but his own! He's too eager to please the radical Amandus AND his stagnant father!
He needs to stand on his own two feet like a leader should.

Well said, Mr. Warlorn. Elias' greatest weakness is that he has trouble making his own decisions: he's always taken advice, whether it be from his father or Geoffrey St. John. It's another problem with Max's obsession with the monarcy: Elias hasn't been trained to rule. Sally has, but Max is so set in his ways that the only reason he considered Sally at all was because Elias was thought dead for over a decade and then he ran away from home and abdicated until retaking the throne after Sally got married to Patch (thank Aurora that was short-lived). Not to mention that neither Elias nor Sally has demonstrated that they WANT to rule-Sally has consented in the past to do it because she loves her people more than herself, and Elias shares that same love but also wants to please his father and ease the burden on Sally.

Remember, kiddies...it's not how many people are on your side, it's where they're located! Which part of New Mobotropolis has the most electoral votes?

EDIT: Darn it, that joke's no good in a monarchy...

Bad attempts at humor aside, this is really going to come down to Elias making a decision, I think. If Max keeps calling for punishment and Elias balks, then that's just more fuel for the flames Amadeus is fanning.

Will it be a peaceful decision? Who knows? I guess it depends on if the Prowers' intentions are genuine or not. It feels like it up until the last page, then kinda gets thrown back in the ring.

I believe I just said that about Elise' character flaws.

"Kalas himself said: Great men do not desire power, it thrusted upon them." - Wolf, DS9.
Weather Elise proves to be a great man or not, is about to seen, and weather he shows the ability to learn from his mistakes he made with listening too much to Geoffery and not doing the same with his dad. And a leader has to care for all of those around him, not just half. And if Amandus does have such a high following, he should be able to do it the RIGHT way, Elise is NOT his father after all, which Amandus NOR Max seem to ever realize.

Obviously, the right compromise here would be for New Mobotropolis to become a Constitutional Monarchy, with a Parliament of the people and the Royal Crown still having a measure of authority, with each group counterbalancing the other...

Funny one, Dark Aldran. Of course, since the Kingdom of Acorn isn't a democracy-yet-the electoral thing won't work. In the event the monarchy is dissolved and elections are set up, then we'll see who ends up as top dog. Maybe Amadeus'll get the job, though he seems more like the type to bring change about, not use it to gain position. Then again, maybe Elias would make a better president than a king!

Yeah, I realized that right after I said it, couldn't change it fast enough...glad someone caught it though.

You're right about Amadeus as well, Spectre...I'd rather not see him take over myself, and I don't think he would, unless calling for the king to step down NOW means stepping up himself. Guess we'll see.

Like a lot of things in this story arc, Amadeus could go either way. He might just want the royal family to abdicate so that a new government can be formed, one that he will serve just as he served the House of Acorn. Of course, given that they're in the middle of the war, he may have it in his mind to briefly subject the kingdom to martial law, with himself in charge. Hopefully, he'll recognize the dangers of that and will just want to put someone he sees as more competent than Elias in charge, and he won't place himself in power and open up the possibility that he'll go from reformist to dictator.

"Obviously, the right compromise here would be for New Mobotropolis to become a Constitutional Monarchy, with a Parliament of the people and the Royal Crown still having a measure of authority, with each group counterbalancing the other..."

We can HOPE for that solution. Since who would even end UP ruler if Amanadus dissolve the monarchy? -Logically- people would flock to have him be their new leader, and does HE have any more idea on how to run a country than Elise? True he wants an equal system, but people will see him as a bringer in of a new age and demand he take the job, thus defeating his goal.

If Elise just steps down, he'll just be running away again.

I wonder what would happen to Nicole's memories of King Sonic and Queen Sally if the Monarchy -was- dissolved? And would she still be destine to die when Robotnik is finally defeated?

The Constitutional Monarchy does sound like a good idea: it's a compromise between the desire for reform and loyalty to the old system. It would be a good solution, if not ncessarily the best one. Amadeus probably wouldn't make a good political leader, and even if he did, there's the danger of him succumbing to the lure of power and becoming a dictator.

Elias stepping down really doesn't qualify as running away-he's never wanted the role of king, and doubtless he would choose to dissolve the monarcy instead of just abdicating. Amadeus isn't likely to want the monarch to leave office just so another member of the royal family-Sally or Max, though I'd hope Sally-can take his place. Amadeus seems to want the monarchy gone, and he won't settle for Elias stepping down.

As for NICOLE, it must be remembered that she came from a POSSIBLE future, not necessarily the one that Mobius Prime will follow. It's the same thing that occurred in both Mobius: 25 Years Later arcs and the appearance of the original Lara-Su. NICOLE is from a future that the present may end up becoming, or it may not. Either way, anything that happens in the present apparently doesn't affect the time she's from; if it did, she'd probably already have lost her memories of that future. More likely, she's gone back to an alternate timeline to her own, and her actions there-and those of others-won't affect her memories of the future she came from. Also, there's nothing to say that she'll die along the current timeline except for that one excerpt from a future that may be completely different from how things will turn out in the comics.

Well, the whole King Sonic and Queen Sally storyline was just a possible future, so it's possible that because of this, Nicole might not die at all.

I think Sally is perfectly capable of handling a democratic lead position. She already has the support of the people, and if things are patched up between everyone, the Freedom Fighters could even serve as advisors.

Huh, I never thought I'd see the day when we'd be discussing politics within the comics.

Sailor Unicron, no one could have said it better! Sally would be great as a democratic leader-it'd be like how Princess Leia became head of the New Republic in the expanded universe of Star Wars. The Freedom Fighters would make excellent advisors...although Sonic probably wouldn't enjoy being a politician of any kind.

It was Nicole's existence that inspired Rotor to BUILD her in the first place and send her prototyoe. It's a loop, if it's not completed, then it'll fall apart.

Also, I wonder how many are thinking of Sonic and Tails FIRST fight to the death, when they were fighting under the mind control of Horizontal and Vertical. Only this time Tails isn't like to say "I thought we were friends" and both will snap out of their blood lust this time.

But they HAVE been here before. I just wish they'd realize that.

And Amandus DOES want the Monarchy -gone-, but by that logic, ELISE needs to do it, cause if he steps down, another Acorn automatically takes in the job.
But if Elise just dissolves it and leaves that that, it'll create a power gap which would be bad thing.

The whole -reason- Elise stepped in when Patch became King was because he didn't trust Antione in the position as King. He won't step down unless a system that can take over for him is already in place. In other words, Amandus wants the system to change, good idea, but for goodness sake's, stagnation is deadly, but he should have the blue prints drawn up rather than just in his head before tearing down the old system.

Look what happened to the poor Russians!

Alex, there's nothing to say that the exact same thing doesn't happen in several possible futures. For all we know, a future version of the Sally from the timeline the comics usually take place in sent a duplicate of NICOLE to the Sally of the timeline where HER NICOLE came from.

I've never seen that, and that really doesn't count because they were under mind control. This time, their fighting comes from latent hostility and disagreements that have just built up until they can't take it anymore. For all we know, they WILL snap out of it, but as of yet we don't know what'll happen.

Okay, first of all, it's ELIAS, not Elise. Elise is that dumb girl from Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. Second of all, Elias and Amadeus would probably work together to form a new government, so that they wouldn't end up with factions trying to seize power or one of Elias' relatives claiming the throne in his place. Both of them are smart enough to realize that going from monarchy to democracy won't happen overnight; Amadeus probably just wanted Elias to agree that the monarchy had to go, and they would have worked together to accomplish it.