I noticed something about Max.
Sonic tells him that he's the hero of Mobius and such and he goes. "Yes, I suppose."
And Sonic thinks, "Suppose? Suppose what?"
Any ideas about what that might mean? Max did seem a little TOO eager to want to punishe everyone...
samufar could u maybe post the link of the bkp site w/ those preview scans please?
I think Tails would be able to beat Sonic if he focused more on his chosen one powers and less on tinkering with gadgets. Tails may be more powerful, but other than flying, Tails has not really tapped into his powers in the same degree Sonic has due to the fact that Tails became more fixated on technology while Sonic has created many moves with his superspeed. If Tails is not careful, then he may one day become as dependent on techonlogy as Eggman is.
The breakup was not all Sonic's fault. Instead of talking it out, Sally gave Sonic an ultimatum, then dumped him in public when he did not give her the answer she wanted. Sally was so wrapped up in her own fears that she did not try to understand why Sonic could not quit the hero thing while Mobius was in danger. Both Sonic and Sally did not listen to each other. Sonic did not take Sally's feelings into account, but Sally at the time cared more about her own hurt feelings than the fact that Mobius was in constant danger and that Sonic felt that he can do a lot more on the field than he ever could on a throne.
wrawd, I'm not a mediator on this site, but you're not supposed to double post.
I'll admit that you have a point, that Sally kind of put Sonic on the spot. But Sally had a point; it wasn't as if Sonic was the only guy who could save Mobius, and her parents would have been back soon enough and then both she and Sonic could probably have gotten back to field duty. Plus, you have to realize what Sally was going through: she'd spent a whole year thinking Sonic was dead ("I always knew you'd come back to me" or no, she had no reason to think he was alive), and then he returns and ends up getting hurt on his very first Freedom Fighter mission.
Had it not been for Bunnie's intervention, Sonic could have been killed for real, an idea that scared Sally beyond reason. That's why she asked Sonic to leave the field of battle and help her rule in her parents' brief absence: both to keep him safe and because she wanted his help. And maybe she also wanted to prepare him ready for the day when they would have ruled Mobius together had they not broken up.
Of course, I'm still hoping that they'll resolve that dispute and make amends-this whole deal with Tails could be just the catalyst, if you think about it. Sally could walk in on Sonic and Tails' fight, stop them from fighting, spell it out to Sonic how he's hurt Tails and eventually branch out onto herself. They could exchange apologies, make up, and maybe Sally and Sonic could get back together. It's not likely to happen, but I would very much like it if it would.
But you never know Sally could maybe make things worse between Sonic and Tails. (Only time will tell, I guess?) In fact it might be somewhat kind of like the Sonic vs Geoffrey St. John fight that took place in the Sonic Super Special #2 Brave New World! Lets say Sally does get Sonic and Tails to shake hands, but at the same time, both of them are saying in a real low voice tone so only they can hear each other.
Tails: This is not over by a long shot Sonic!
Sonic: You bet it's not Tails!
Or something like on those lines?
IMHO, the Sonic bashing is getting a little too thick now. To the point where Sonic's other traits are being totally covered over by his flaws to the point where it feels from reading this that he's the bad guy.
It just that Sonic thinks that just because he and Tails have been lifelong friends, everything will always be sunshine and roses. He needs to start acting like the friend he claims to be instead of acting like a total bastard.
thanx samuifar! ![:]](https://www.mobiusforum.net/images/icons/smilies/biggrinshaded.gif){kind=icon}
wow though... not trying to bash sonic here, but he sure looks completely oblivious to tails reactions.
To be fair, Sonic is a seventeen (?) year old guy. Anthropomorphic hedgehog or not, most teenage guys can act like jerks quite a bit of the time, whether they mean to or not. I'm kinda getting irked a bit by all the Sonic-bashing too; he's obviously not perfect, but it's not like his sole character trait is taking Tails for granted.
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I noticed something about Max.
Sonic tells him that he's the hero of Mobius and such and he goes. "Yes, I suppose."
And Sonic thinks, "Suppose? Suppose what?"
Any ideas about what that might mean? Max did seem a little TOO eager to want to punishe everyone...
U haven't read the issue yet, but it sounds like Sonic is a bit affronted that Max is only "supposing" his claim that he's the hero of Mobius - like, Sonic says, "I'm the hero of Mobius", Max says "well, I guess you could be...", and Sonic says "what, how many times have I saved us now, fool?"
Or something of that effect.
Max is wondering if Sonic is a Rebel or a Loyalist.
While Sonic is wondering if there even IS a right side here.
The only reason Sonic is doing what he's doing is because Tails staged a jail break.
ALSO: If the good general had every other person in the city besides him. How come it seems that none of the core FFs (save Tails maybe) were with him!?
Well, the way I see it the FFs fought their whole lives to restore the kingdom they knew and loved, and while they may see the flaws, it just ain't that easy to turn your back on something you fought your whole life to accomplish.
That makes sense.
I just wonder if they ever thought that Max would become such an SOB.
In all fariness to Max, he's been though alot, and to me, his "I suppose" seems more like he's going senile more than actually being a jerk. I really do believe the old man has lost it and he's not in his right mind right now, and pathetic Elias is an indecisive "boy" as always never thinking on his own. Honestly, though, I believe between what Amadeus said to him and what his dad said, he will be bold this time, stand up to his dad, and stand with the General and make change. Sally may settle the argument between Sonic and Tails, but I believe Elias will settle the larger argument.
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seems more like he's going senile more than actually being a jerk.
That would explain a lot about his past actions and characterisation.
Not all of New Mobotropolis' population has been won over. The Freedom Fighters are probably just sitting this one out-after all, their enemy is Robotnik no matter who's in charge of the Kingdom. Sonic's only involved because Tails is aiding in a jail break-and Sonic has a tendency to rush in without thought. Sonic doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd care about the politics of the Kingdom, so long as they're against Robotnik. Of course, his long standing friendship with-and deeper feelings for-Sally may have him leaning more towards the royal family.
Max probably is going senile, and I'm not convinced that he's totally regained his sanity from those years in the Zone of Silence. Forgive me if I missed it, but did he even get a psychological evaluation after he got out of there to make sure he wasn't still somewhat mad? Anyway, I think it more likely that Max is being a jerk out of paranoia-with all the medical conditions he's developed and the times he's been overthrown in the capital of his own Kingdom, can you blame him? Still, I would not mind it if whatever happens in the next issue includes his death.
While I hope that Tails beats Sonic, I won't deny that Sonic is still a good character. It's just that lately he's been acting all stuck up, as though nobody else's opinion matters. He has displayed little to no regard for other people's feelings, and he's become rude to the point where it's not something funny about him any more! Makes you wonder if he hasn't been replaced by yet ANOTHER evil counterpart!
Sonic could probably go back to being a character who not so many of the fans want to bash, it's true. But first he needs to realize that he's made mistakes, and make sure that he apologizes. I'll forgive him on the basis that he's in his late teens, still making the transition from child to adult, but Mobius: 25 Years Later indicates that he's going to be just as childish in the future as he is now! Let's just hope that along the current progression of the story, Sonic doesn't end up like his M25YL self-sure, he got Sally back, but the years he remembers of being married to her and having their two children are gone from almost everyone else's mind.
Sally's intervention could possibly have negative effects, but you have to remember: Tails is not Geoffrey St. John. I'll admit that they've both been pig-headed, but Tails is more intelligent than that. Just as Sonic's behavior could be attributed to his being in the late stages of being a teenager, Tails' could be explained by him entering into it: he's entered the teen rebellion stage, only instead of getting on his parents' case he's begun to feel that Sonic doesn't understand him. Coupled with Sonic's own bad behavior, Tails' anger is well-placed.
However, if he blows off a little steam by beating on Sonic, Sally could come right in and probably put a stop to it by making both of them realize that they've each been at fault. Another thing separating Tails and Geoffrey: Geoffrey hadn't grown up with Sonic as his best friend. If Sonic and Tails can just give each other a few bruises and then talk things out, they'll hopefully see reason and make up. Even better, it would serve as an example to Amadeus and Elias, not to mention possibly helping Sonic to reestablish his relationship with Sally.
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Max probably is going senile, and I'm not convinced that he's totally regained his sanity from those years in the Zone of Silence. Forgive me if I missed it, but did he even get a psychological evaluation after he got out of there to make sure he wasn't still somewhat mad? Anyway, I think it more likely that Max is being a jerk out of paranoia-with all the medical conditions he's developed and the times he's been overthrown in the capital of his own Kingdom, can you blame him? Still, I would not mind it if whatever happens in the next issue includes his death
doctor quack evaluated him after Return of the king. but that was a while ago, soooo.
Given that he's not exactly a spring chicken, and the fact that he's still been through a lot of crazy experiences, I wouldn't be surprised if Max's dislikable attitude in the more recent issues isn't insanity-but paranoia.
There's also the fact that Max no longer has the Source of All communicating with him and advising him. ...Depending on how much he's grown to depend on it, he might now be completly unable to properly make decisions on his own, or has begun confusing past and present in his memories (I mean, he seemed to have trouble recognizing Sonic, of all people!)
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doctor quack evaluated him after Return of the king. but that was a while ago, soooo.
I would so NOT trust Quack's medical opinion. This is the same guy who 'jokingly' asked that Sonic sign a waiver before testing out his latest medical gadget, suggested rubbing a little salve on a broken arm, never tried removing the alien technology in Sonic's brain, could not identify the poison Patch used (and initially misdiagnosed the General's problems as radiation sickness which would have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT effects bozo), never got Max or Alicia to awake from their comas and would have left them to die had Sonic and co. not intervened, wasn't surprised that Bunnie's limbs malfunctioned but never saw fit to warn her BEFORE the problems arose, and never figured that Jules was left a robot cuz he'd die otherwise.
I have nothing but respect for the medical profession but Quack is an embarrasment. >_<
yeah that's quite the repature he's got going there. i didn't even think of it before lol
Why'd you think the guy's named Doctor Quack?
Well, in regards to the alien device, I believe the good doctor did say it could cause damage if he did remove it, and the advanced Brotherhood couldn't even wake the Queen from her coma so Quack should be cut some slack on that point. Plus, I believe it was him that told the FFs of the serum that Eggman had that revived the queen.
I'm not disregarding your valid points, Puar, but I wanted to point out the good. Plus, Doctor Quack has to be doing something right to take care of the Kingdom's capital for all these years not to mention that the dream watcher did work and he did save Sally with the stasis tube and cleverly disguising it as a coffin.
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he did save Sally with the stasis tube and cleverly disguising it as a coffin.
Which caused all sorts of shenanigans that led to Sonic becoming a fugitive.
Miss Paur, is it OK to ask you to put up scans for this issue and 177? I don't want to sound rude.
Sorry! I don't think we can do the full page scans anymore, well at least from what I understand around here anyway? Other then Ian's first three page look.
You can't provide the full issue. Miss Puar is kind enough to occassionally provide three or four partial scans from an issue, which is fine.
Doctor Quack is just like a lot of non-fighting characters in Archie: he's made some mistakes in his time. Really, you need to cut the guy some slack: he's the chief medical officer in the city of a kingdom that's been at war for the past twelve or so years. The Brotherhood couldn't wake Alicia, and their technology all but buries that of almost any other group on Mobius.
As for his failing to remove that alien implant from Sonic, what would be the point? It's not like it's hurting Sonic-unless that thing's the reason he's been such a jerk since he got back? Funny, it seems that every character who spends considerable time in the company of alien species ends up getting into trouble and acting foolishly. *hint*hint*
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Which caused all sorts of shenanigans that led to Sonic becoming a fugitive.
Actually, that was caused by Hershey being duped by Draco; nothing to do with the good doctor; plus, he couldn't wake her up after Robotnik Prime took over so he disguised it as a coffin to make RP actually believe Sal was dead.
Still, you'd think that after at least twelve years of fighting Robotnik together, that someone might've suspected that all wasn't what it seemed. It wouldn't have been the first time that Robotnik had tricked them.
Honestly, it worried me how quickly they came to the conclusion that Sonic murdered Sally, without even entertaining the possibility that he was being framed.
Maybe, but everyone dropped the ball not just Dr. Quack.
Sonic being framed was probably the last thing on everybody's minds at the time. They had apparently lost their beloved princess, and Sonic appeared to be responsible: that was all they needed to know. Had it not been for the fact that losing Sally was such a emotional blow that none of them were really thinking clearly, they might have realized that Sonic would never do such and thing and looked into it more closely.
Dr. Quack's concealing of Sally still being alive was an act of mercy, as far as I see it. He was trying to get her back on her feet, but she'd been hurt so badly that he wasn't sure if she would make it. If she had died, then nobody but him would have known better, and things would have gone on with her as a martyer for the cause. Since she survived, her "return from the dead" bolstered the morale of Knothole's citizens, multiplying how happy they were after Robotnik was apparently defeated.
Anyway, I think that Dr. Quack has other problems on his hands at the moment: Rotor's injured back-assuming that hasn't been fixed before I could hear about it-and Charmy's memory loss. If King Max is still crazy, it's not Quack's fault: he's a physician, not a psychiatrist.
Even taking the loss of Sally into account, I still can't believe that the Freedom Fighters would turn on one of their own so quickly.
They've turned on Sonic billions of times without second though. XD
This is true. You think someone is trying to tell us (or Sonic) something?
Of course, it's not like anyone's accused the FF's of being smart.
Finally got my hands on this issue, as well as #177. What can I say? I'm lazy.
Kinda pleased with how all this is turning out, I'm not exactly complaining about anything as yet. Some of the things which happened, though, have needed to happen for a while, like Tails smacking the hell out of Sonic.
Although, I don't remember Max's hair being white, and him being THAT senile.
Yes, someone who agrees with me that Max is senile and not just a jerk!
About Endgame, there were those that believed Sonic from the start, like Uncle Chuck, or questioned his guilt and Sally didn't believe Sonic was a tradior. Rosie, I believe, told Tails at that time that things are not always what they seemed.
What I don't get about Endgame is how Dulcy can sense truth (that was why she answered Sonic's whistle and how she could convince the Chaotix to stop attacking the hedgie) yet she did nothing but bawl over Sonic's arrest/Sally's death. You think she'd remember those mystic dragon senses a little sooner an spare us all the grief of fugitive!Sonic but nooooo...
anywho, I scanned from 178 and uploaded to photobucket hope y'all enjoy.
Well from what I've heard, even ignoring the plot inconsistancies, that whole four-parter was a trainwreck.
I think, Puar, for the mystic dragon sense to work, she has to talk to the person directly; she didn't just have Dragon-sense to know the truth from fiction. Also, dragons can tell when someone is telling the truth because dragons themselves can't lie. Also, hearing Sonic whistle had nothing to do with her truth sensing abilities, it's because Sonic can produce high frequency sounds, because of his speed powers, and she heard those like a dog in our world would.
Fun as it is to talk about old situations in which Sonic has been "turned on" by the Freedom Fighters, there's one thing we need to remember: he hasn't been turned on this time. None of the Freedom Fighters but Sonic and Tails have been shown to have any involvement in the current conflict between Amadeus and Elias' factions. If I were the other Freedom Fighters, I'd probably just sit this out; none of them have any reason-beyond loyalty to Sally's family-to support the monarchy, nor to oppose reform. None of them have expressed any signs of turning against Sonic-althought NICOLE seems quite ticked at his lack of sensitivity. Maybe that experience in Sally's body gave her a bit of the Princess' annoyance towards Sonic.
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Well, the way I see it the FFs fought their whole lives to restore the kingdom they knew and loved, and while they may see the flaws, it just ain't that easy to turn your back on something you fought your whole life to accomplish.
I said this earlier in the thread, Spectre; I think it still stands to why the FFs would be opposed to the revolution.
I could see the FF's, if Sonic and Tails patched up things between them, being something like mediators between Elias and Amadeus.
Good suggestion, SU; and to FMR, let's think about this. For the past eleven+ years, the Freedom Fighters have been fighting on behalf of the KINGDOM of Acorn-not the HOUSE of Acorn, the KINGDOM of Acorn. So long as the values they've been fighting to protect remain intact, I really don't see them being all that opposed to a change or supportive of it-they're probably just waiting to see what happens.
Anyway, only three Freedom Fighters are currently participating in this situation. Sonic doesn't really support either side, he just feels that breaking Amadeus out of prison is wrong. Tails is fully supportive of his parents, but for all we know he doesn't share their opinions about the Kingdom. And NICOLE seems to be rather neutral so far; her loyalty is also the Kingdom of Acorn, not just the House, and she's kind of busy maintaining the defenses of New Mobotropolis.
At the moment, we have no idea where the other Freedom Fighters are. If I had to guess, I'd say that Antoine and Bunnie are trying to get whatever excuse for a honeymoon they can pull off right now. Rotor is probably still getting treatment for his injured back, and Sally is probably trying to think of a way to resolve the dispute peacefully. Of course, with luck she'll show up to help Sonic and Tails mend the division between them.
Only one thing, Spectre, the house of Acorn and the Kingdom of Acorn is pretty much inseparable; the only reason it is the Kingdom of Acorn is because of the existence of the House of Acorn and without the House they're cannot be a Kingdom since the Acorns hold the power of the kingdom.
But they could be loyal to the kingdom, but not to the king himself, correct?
Sort of like me. I love America, but I'm not very fond of the people running it.
Ah, touche, still, they risked their lives for kingdom and crown. I mean how many times did they risk their lives to save the king even going to the Zone of Silence for a second time knowing how dangerous it was and how crazy Max was even willing to fight his own daughter.
Let's also not forget using the Dream Watcher to go into his twisted and crystalized mind, fighting Naugus for control of the king's body, fighting Knuckles for AI's Emerald, Death Egg Saga, and everything else they went though for him. Once again they spent their whole lives fighting for the kingdom, and king, not to mention Alicia and Elias, and to just turn their back on all of it, no matter the flaws they see, still cannot and will not be easy.
Sailor Unicorn has a point, especially given Max's disregard for them in the past. Given the fact that Amadeus has praised their efforts in comparsion to the House of Acorn's, they might want to avoid the spotlight right now. Besides, who's to say that the Kingdom of Acorn couldn't still exist without the House of Acorn in charge?
For all we know, the Freedom Fighters may be just as dissatisfied with the monarchy as Amadeus is. I mean, isn't just a little possible that they're just focused on fighting Robotnik now and not so concerned with the House of Acorn? I mean, they like Elias, but I could see them not being so enchanted by the Kingdom anymore. They fought for the Kingdom out of loyalty to the nation of their childhood, but I seriously doubt that it's the same as it was all those years ago. If I'd fought for years to reestablish a monarchy that had been toppled in a coup, only to wind up with the obviously flawed system that's currently in place, I'd probably be rethinking my efforts.
Just because the Freedom Fighters once held a view, doesn't mean they do now. After all the crap they've had to put up with from Max, and the fact that Amadeus' views on their efforts aren't so misplaced, maybe they feel that a change is in order. Since it's taking so long to defeat Robotnik with the Kingdom of Acorn at their back, maybe they think a new government could do better.
