Possession is the displacement of one mind with another. It can be with "evil spirits", it can also be done with a computer virus. Adam possessed the turtle dude. That was not magic. So Mogul is doing the same thing, but with the mushy computer in his head instead of nano-technology. Big whoop. Why does it suddenly become magic when something organic is involved but only science when something mechanical is involved?
Or.......... Does it really matter how God-like Mogul was? Whatever God is out there I'm betting whatever he does is exaplainable by the laws of nature, although I suppose one can call it magic. The word however is as about as much use as calling a random person Bob; it explains absolutly nothing. Once you find out how something works it is no longer magic.
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Possession is the displacement of one mind with another. It can be with "evil spirits", it can also be done with a computer virus. Adam possessed the turtle dude. That was not magic. So Mogul is doing the same thing, but with the mushy computer in his head instead of nano-technology.
You talk about Mogul as if he's some sort of a computer program. Computers are different in how they function in comparison to living brains.
We already went over this, Suzy. Magic is a mystical influence. Computers can already control other machines in the real world. ADAM may be viral, but he is still a computer program. Computer programs can influence machinery, and Tommy was a machine by the time the nanites were done with him. Therefore, its not a "mystical" method of control by definition. And even we ignored the telepathy/possession debate, it again, does not change the fact that there were still plotholes in explaining Mina and Tails' markings.
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Even if I gave you the benifit of the doubt, this still should have been explained within the story.
But. . .I did? Page 8, Panel 2:
NACK: "You can't do diddly. Even your psychics or whatever don't have the range to do anything."
MOGUL: "To most would-be-victims, I will grant you that. However, my telepathy can reach to those I have already marked."
He then goes on to show the three markings in what amounts to three flashbacks.
Everything else you're claiming is plothole isn't - it's a question of tactics. I could explain everything case-by-case, character-by-character . . . or just go back to the comic for that.
Page 8, Panel 3:
MOGUL: "Let it never be said I do not plan without contingencies. There are many I have seeded a telepathic bond in during my travels."
Tails, Mina and Mighty were who he needed right now. He couldn't stop Titan Tails, perhaps because it was more than on Tails, or perhaps because he didn't think he needed to. He was a reality-crushing god at that point.
He didn't use Mighty to bash him out of the Master Emerald . . . why? I don't know. He didn't think it was the right time, or maybe he was trying to harness the power from within.
Mina didn't show any signs because (Page 9, Panel 3-4):
MOGUL: "I found you. I saw your potential. I enhanced your natural prowess, but robbed your memory. The best pawns are the unwitting ones. / You would not stumble upon your new power until later." etc. etc.
It's all in there. Trust me - I try hard at this kind of thing.
so he didn't have to be physically there to mark mina? cuz as far as the story goes, he couldn't have been.
O.o This is hilarious. Thank you Ian for having to explain your rationale of the comic's story to those that wish to UTTERLY RATIONALIZE IT BEYOND NORMAL CONVENTION.
As stated plainly..
"Let's look at your arguement from a logical standpoint. Just because the comic is marketted to kids, doesn't mean that Mogul's power didn't fit the definition of magic, and doesn't mean that the story in and of itself is plausible writing.<---"
Logically...KIDS aren't going to discuss and rationalize the definition of ESP and Magic! They're gonna go "OH snap! Mogul got to them before! That's cool!" and go on with their merry lives :o.
Stop thinking that plausible writing comes from literary definitions based in our world. What if-in Mobius-there's some sort of difference in the meanings of ESP and Telepathy that makes them different from what YOU know?
They may not be, but hey, I'm not gonna whine and pine over a minute detail. It happened, its over, let it go.
And thank you all who did not get involved in that weird train wreck for amusing me with your side banter as always. Now can we please get some Nicole vs Scrambled Legion action 
!
On topic: Yeah, wasn't it the issue where Fiona, Mighty and Sonic were trying to reach that compound (the one Ray was trapped in) where Mighty talks about his sister for a brief moment?
o.O And from the story point of view-Mogul could have done it. When he was free of the Emerald, that was was, Issue 85? Consistent Mina and junk didn't come around 'til what...90? 91? There was plenty of time then OR. OR.
He could have done it while during post-Sword of Acorns plot in the early 40's-50's because Mina was in the comic back then (52 I beieve?). He could have done it before she even became a minor player :O I mena, there's times....
and yeah why pwn Tails then? Maybe Mogul just wanted to test Tails limits in ultimate forms so he cold prime his fighter to take on Sonic and utterly destroy him when the time comes.
Granted, Sonic's billion+ gold rings aura will always save him....but hey, maybe there's more to this than I'm seeing that's gonna leave to some epicwin situation in 200.
oh ok, i suppose he was out of the emerald. i confused his release with his return is all.
Mogul could quite easily have imprinted Mina at any point after he was released from the Master Emerald. We first see Mina in, what, #76? Don't see her use super speed until the early #90s, at which point Mogul had already been out and about for at least fifteen issues.
Also this entire conversation makes me laugh because people are basically saying "magic doesn't work that way PLOTHOLE". Here's a tip: telepathy, possession, magic - none of it is real, there are no definitions or rules about it except what you choose to think about it. This is what I was saying before - if Ian says Mogul's magic works a certain way, then it does - not just cause Ian's got the final say what with the fact he wrote it, but cause he's playing with his own rules regarding something that doesn't exist in the real world and HAS no concrete rules.
As a pre-emptive strike - in (good) fantasy fiction, magic et al is given rules and an internal logic rather than just "it can do anything ever!".
And this story has done that (telepathy different to magic so it gets past the shield, psychics too weak to do anything on their own but can trigger pre-existing hex, yadda yadda).
So, yeah, everything works, has internal logic and this is an insane conversation and my life has been shortened posting this.
Now let's all get drunk and play ping-pong! 
You and me agree on something Charles. The world is ending.
You got Wii? Maybe we can play virtual pingpong on-line.
Why bother with the hows and whys when we know how it's gonna end?
Sonic may or may not become evil. If he does, he'll be evil for a couple of issues (any more than two and I'll be impressed), the rest of the crew will find some sort of deus ex/plot device to bring all of them back to their senses, and Mogul's gonna be imprisoned yet again.
Conversely, Sonic won't become evil, and he'll be the one to find the deus ex/plot device, bring everyone back to their senses, and do whatever with Mogul.
Oh, and somebody might possibly die.
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And from the story point of view-Mogul could have done it. When he was free of the Emerald, that was was, Issue 85? Consistent Mina and junk didn't come around 'til what...90? 91? There was plenty of time then OR. OR.
He could have done it while during post-Sword of Acorns plot in the early 40's-50's because Mina was in the comic back then (52 I beieve?). He could have done it before she even became a minor player :O I mena, there's times....
Yes, but Mogul said "Remember when Robotnik reclaimed his old city. Remember how you sought your dear mother." That can only refer to Robo-Robotnik's takeover in 74-76. I suppose the marking could technically have been sometime after this, but we know that Mina ended up alone in Robotropolis looking for her mother in 76, so (aside from Mogul being trapped at that point), 76 is when the story seems to be pointing to.
o.O Umm...didn't Robotnik reclaim the city earlier than the mid-70's? 😮 He started attacking everyone with the satellites in the 70's but I think Robo was back long before that :O
But I could be wrong :o.
Mammoth Mogul should get roboticized. That way he could use Ixis Magic, ESP, AND be a robot.
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You talk about Mogul as if he's some sort of a computer program. Computers are different in how they function in comparison to living brains.
No, the only difference is that one is made of nerves and the other one with wires. Other than that, they do function the same. Both are made to calculate and think. A computer, if made well enough, can be considered alive, and a person can be considered a program.
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We already went over this, Suzy. Magic is a mystical influence.
Mystical is a word used when one doesn't bother to find the rational reason for something happening.
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Computers can already control other machines in the real world. ADAM may be viral, but he is still a computer program. Computer programs can influence machinery, and Tommy was a machine by the time the nanites were done with him
Very well, if that example doesn't suit, then how about the time Sonic got that wire thing stuck in his ear? There you go, a little machine having influence over him.
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Therefore, its not a "mystical" method of control by definition.
Neither is possession/ mind control. You get plenty of that happening in comic books everywhere and it isn't always considered "mystical", just look at Charles Xavier and the white Queen. They possess people and it's not mystical. They just have a lot of power mental-wise.
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And even we ignored the telepathy/possession debate, it again, does not change the fact that there were still plotholes in explaining Mina and Tails' markings.
I know. I just wanted to continue the debate and push buttons. 
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"Let it never be said I do not plan without contingencies. There are many I have seeded a telepathic bond in during my travels."
Reading it over, I'll give you credit on explaining it. For that I apologize. However, it still doesn't change the fact that plotholes exist. He couldn't have plausibly marked Mina and Tails because the prior continuity contradicts it. Had he marked him, Mogul would have been able to win before he even became Titan Tails. Because he didn't its next to impossible for Mogul to have this ability by the context of which you explained it. If that's the case, then one can argue that its a plothole for even Mighty to have been marked.
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He couldn't stop Titan Tails, perhaps because it was more than on Tails, or perhaps because he didn't think he needed to. He was a reality-crushing god at that point.
I highly doubt that. Even if Titan Tails was a mental collective (which is debatable based on the dialogue that went on in the story) It still sounds implausible. During the Chosen One story, Mogul was obviously intimidated by Tails' potential capeabilities and tried to kill him on sight. Had he been marked, Tails would have been a sitting duck. There were many instances within the plot that Mogul could've possessed him. For instance, Tails went to confront Mogul on his own. Mogul knew he was a threat, so if he was marked he could have ignited his control before Sonic even arrived. That or he could have possessed him during or after he got Sonic out of the way if he so choosed. Because he didn't, it isn't likely that Mogul has this capeability, or else he would have used it to his advantage a long time ago.
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He didn't use Mighty to bash him out of the Master Emerald . . . why? I don't know. He didn't think it was the right time, or maybe he was trying to harness the power from within.
I don't see the logic in that. He was being drained of his life force. If he had those abilities, why wouldn't didn't Mogul seek someone to get him out?
There was no advantage given to Mogul for being released at that time. In fact, had he left the Emerald earlier, possessing Mina would have made more sense. That, and he would have still retained a lot more of his original power. Had Knuckles, or the Freedom Fighters tried coming after him, he would have been better suited for battle, and could have taken the Master Emerald. Not only that, but even if they did try to catch him, they'd also have to deal other immediate threats like Chaos.
The fact of the matter is, he had no influence outside of the emerald, so he couldn't have marked Mina. If that didn't prove the point, Knuckles went a step further and explained it to Sonic in #56; that Mogul's life force lived on within the emerald in a comatose state. So even if he couldn't contact Mighty, or someone else to help him, he sure as heck couldn't have marked Mina even still.
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and yeah why pwn Tails then? Maybe Mogul just wanted to test Tails limits in ultimate forms so he cold prime his fighter to take on Sonic and utterly destroy him when the time comes.
Again, this is mere fan speculation. It wasn't established in the story, and couldn't have been. Mogul didn't want to test Tails, he wanted him dead because he got in the way of him ruling the universe. And even if the aura of Sonic's billionth ring tried to save him, nothing happened to give Mogul any prior knowledge about it, so he couldn't have tested Tails with that in mind. And even if he did know, it wouldn't have mattered. If he's a demi-god capeable of destroying what fabrics a universe, then that would also mean he'd have the potential of usurping the power of Sonic's aura.
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o.O Umm...didn't Robotnik reclaim the city earlier than the mid-70's?
Nah. He was preparing to strike before then, but didn't actually take it over until issue #76--when Mina was first introduced.
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I know. I just wanted to continue the debate and push buttons.
Whether or not I agree with you, I am still interested in the subject. However, Ian's already covered the telepathy/magic thing on this topic, and I doubt he's going to expand up on it again whether people want him to or not. Soo.. To go any further with it on this one would just make it go off topic, and there's still plenty of other debates yet to be solved here so I'd hate for it to be locked. However, if you wish to continue, I'd be more than happy to go over it on a new topic.
BBL! 
o.O No Mina was introduced in the 50's. >>
Again, this is mere fan speculation. It wasn't established in the story, and couldn't have been. Mogul didn't want to test Tails, he wanted him dead because he got in the way of him ruling the universe. And even if the aura of Sonic's billionth ring tried to save him, nothing happened to give Mogul any prior knowledge about it, so he couldn't have tested Tails with that in mind. And even if he did know, it wouldn't have mattered. If he's a demi-god capeable of destroying what fabrics a universe, then that would also mean he'd have the potential of usurping the power of Sonic's aura.
That's speculation as well. Mogul was able to destroy the verses because he knew what was necessary for him to establish himself, and usurp the balance of said universe and add it to his own power.
What he dose'nt know is HOW the rings affect Sonic >>
Hell I dun think anyone knows.
I was just wondering if anyone else knew this.
But I've heard from sources I will not reveal (again I don't know if this is already common knowledge and I'm months behind), that originally the brainwashed heroes story was going to be longer than two issues! It got cut short because someone thought it was TOO much like a plot point once used in DBZ (brainwashed Vegeta).
All I can if this is true is, "AGH!!" I hate it when good plot points get shot down by copyright phobics.
I wonder if anyone is gonna bother writing a 'should have been fanfiction.'
Slap your source in the face. "Mogul Rising" was pitched as a 2-parter. If anything, the Mogul-focus is going on longer than initially pitched.
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o.O No Mina was introduced in the 50's. >>
No, the girl you saw was more than likely a character who Mina's design was based off of. She couldn't have been her because if she was, Sally would've acknowledged Mina as that same person when she first appeared, and Mina would've displayed more experience. There would have been no reluctance at the prospect of her Freedom Fighting since she would've already been one at a point in time. Besides, I think this is sidestepping the point. if you look at the page where Mina's running from those bots, Mogul emphasizes the time in which he found her. He says that it was during the time Robo-Robotnik took over which was during the 70s. There's no other time it could've happened, and since Mogul was trapped and powerless at that point, its still a plothole.
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That's speculation as well. Mogul was able to destroy the verses because he knew what was necessary for him to establish himself, and usurp the balance of said universe and add it to his own power.
Its not really speculation. I'm actually basing this off of the fact that Mogul successfully killed Sonic. As Titan Tails, he was able to not only restore Sonic, but everything else to the way it was before Mogul destoryed everything.
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What he dose'nt know is HOW the rings affect Sonic >>
If he was capeable of killing Sonic, then it wouldn't have mattered how the rings affected him. Furthermore, in Mecha Madness, the power that protected him dispersed from his body in order to change Sonic back. So one can argue he doesn't/shouldn't even have the power of that aura anymore.
One thing about this issue, it has been fun seeing certain fans get upset over every little detail. I have come to accept plotholes as apart of comic books, and if the result is something I like I can even love plotholes. In the end, my guess is that the loved ones, of cretures who have been effected by Mogul, will be able to get though to them. Hopfully, no one will die this time, I like to think not because Ian just did kill someone off.
I really love how Shorty's method of reading a comic book seems to be taping it to a wall, putting on some PedantPants and headbutting repeatedly till something breaks.
It's been a source of much amusement for me, since I have only read the summary, and prolly wont actually get round to reading the issue for years, but still understood that it happened exactly how Ian just explained. This is the most textbook case of looking just too danged hard I've ever seen.
But you gave me an excuse to type PedantPants into a sentence! =D
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I really love how Shorty's method of reading a comic book seems to be taping it to a wall, putting on some PedantPants and headbutting repeatedly till something breaks.
It's been a source of much amusement for me, since I have only read the summary, and prolly wont actually get round to reading the issue for years, but still understood that it happened exactly how Ian just explained. This is the most textbook case of looking just too danged hard I've ever seen.
Ian explained how Mogul can possess someone using telepathy as trigger since he's hexed them beforehand. Ian however has NOT explained the plotholes surrounding the plausibility of Mina and Tails especially being hexed in the first place. If you kept up with the topic, you would understand that I'm no longer even discussing the point Ian made.
Disregard. I missed something here... o_O
If he was capeable of killing Sonic, then it wouldn't have mattered how the rings affected him. Furthermore, in Mecha Madness, the power that protected him dispersed from his body in order to change Sonic back. So one can argue he doesn't/shouldn't even have the power of that aura anymore.
Nay. Dr Quack in 176 and EGGMAN ON 175 both mention the fact that the rings effect is still with him, as it helped him heal and helped him survive the mondo cool arse whipping he got. :o. I dun think it ever said that it dispersed, rather it kept Sonic's lifeforce from being completely mechanized. But Im too lazy to search through Mecha Madness :O.
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Nay. Dr Quack in 176 and EGGMAN ON 175 both mention the fact that the rings effect is still with him, as it helped him heal and helped him survive the mondo cool arse whipping he got.
In Mecha Madness, as Sonic transformed back, the power of his one billionth ring had visually dispersed from his body, and never appeared again when Mogul killed him in #150. Also, in those said issues, Ian never specified if it was the aura of his billionth, or just from power rings Sonic had already collected afterwards (let's hope he goes with the latter). However, Even if he were able to use other power rings to boost his defense, its probably safe to say that that the specific aura of his one billionth ring is gone.
Also, just because the power rings emit an aura to protect him doesn't mean that Sonic is invincible to death. Maybe that could've been argued during Mecha Madness, but again, those rings left Sonic's body. All that was established in #175 and #177 is that they boosted his defense. Nothing more.
This whole "billion ring aura" deal has deus ex written all over it. It's nothing more than a cheap "get out of death/possession/whatever the peril is at the moment free" card for Sonic.
Being the main hero is probably more than enough.
Well looks like Mogul is going to be around for awhile...
Although speaking of the #175 story arc, remember when Robotnik said he studied Sonic all his life...?(It was right before he told Sonic he'd reached his limit) That didn't seem very consistant either since he came as Robo-Robotnik in #75. 
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Being the main hero is probably more than enough.
Well, it still doesn't change the fact the particular aura of his one billionth dispersed after Mecha Madness, and it never showed up again to restore Sonic when Mogul killed Sonic in #150.
Now, I'm not saying that Sonic couldn't have obtained any new rings that provided this effect, because its very likely he could. But whatever he does have obviously isn't enough to protect him from death, and Ian's only established that whatever rings he has obtained boosts his defense.
Believe it or not, he had his very own Sonic in his dimension, and wandered into the prime dimension the same time Robotnik Prime was destroyed. Roughly the same moment RoboRobotnik won against his sonic.
Say what now? Who had his very own Sonic?
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Say what now? Who had his very own Sonic?
Eggman came from another dimension in which he had defeated his very own version of Sonic.
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Believe it or not, he had his very own Sonic in his dimension, and wandered into the prime dimension the same time Robotnik Prime was destroyed.
Okay, but that's speculatory at best. I'm going by what I actually saw in the book. Eggman made no particular references to that Sonic, and nor has his prior experience with him been beneficial enough for him to defeat Sonic prime.
If Ian wants to touch on it again by that angle then fine, but as of right now, its level of consistancy's a little loopy. Actually, it wouldn't have even bothered me as much, but from the looks of it, its almost as if the comics are trying to rewrite the history by trying write out Julian's existance almost if not entirely. This year's Free Comic Book Day has a story retelling the first issue, however Eggman's on the cover instead.
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Okay, but that's speculatory at best. I'm going by what I actually saw in the book. Eggman made no particular references to that Sonic, and nor has his prior experience with him been beneficial enough for him to defeat Sonic prime.
Speculatory nothing, you need to whip out your copy of issue #75. He says so right there in black and white. That Sonic was the same as Sonic Prime until the end, when he was turned into a cyborg.
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If Ian wants to touch on it again by that angle then fine, as of right now, its level of consistancy's a little loopy. Actually, it wouldn't have even bothered me as much, but from the looks of it, its almost as if the comics are trying to rewrite the history by trying write out Julian's existance almost if not entirely. This year's Free Comic Book Day has a story retelling the first issue, however Eggman's on the cover instead.
As far as I can tell, Ian can pretty much do whatever he wants. That's what makes him the comic's writer. And the free comic book day issue is just for fun. The cover is not canon, it's just a neat idea, like "Hey! What would the first issue's cover look like if the series began TODAY?"
Seriously, you're making mountains out of molehills in that regard.
Owned, as they say.
Seriously though, hell, even I remember that issue.
And Ian's not trying to write out the old Robotnik from history. But if you want to spend your time thinking he is, feel free to waste your time thinking about it.
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Actually, it wouldn't have even bothered me as much, but from the looks of it, its almost as if the comics are trying to rewrite the history by trying write out Julian's existance almost if not entirely.
I got the impression he was whiting out that, he's just avoiding like hell the idea that the current Robotnik is a different guy to the old Robotnik. And I don't blame him, that's going to be confusing to get across to post-#75 readers and it's needlessly complicated.
And Eggman's cooler than Julian because he has a better moustache.
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Speculatory nothing, you need to whip out your copy of issue #75. He says so right there in black and white.
Um, that's not exactly what I meant. Allow me to clarify. Perhaps the prior knowledge with his Sonic is indeed missing the point. However the bulk of what I've been talking about concerns the particular issue of #175. I know where Robo-Robotnik came from and this history of his Sonic from issue #19, so you don't need to give me a scan.
What I meant was that there's nothing within the context of that issue, that particularly clarifies refferencing to his Sonic when he tells Sonic Prime that he studied him all his life. Again, normally this wouldn't have bothered me, and I would've tossed this suspicion in the trash for the reasons you stated. But for awhile I and others have had a rising suspicion that the comics have been trying to write out the history that was once Julian for reasons, some of which I just went over. Robo-Robotnik got a personality change. There's no intention to revive Julian, things are transforming more like the games, and now Eggman's on the cover of the first issue. If Ian clarifies that that he indeed was reffering to his Sonic, then its fine.
Like the unreplied qualms I explained to him last page concerining the implausibility of Mina, Tails and Mighty even getting hexed in the first place, I posted this to get an answer.
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As far as I can tell, Ian can pretty much do whatever he wants. That's what makes him the comic's writer.
Technically he can do what he wants, but that doesn't make it automatically the right, or smartest desicion. Ian stated that he didn't want to reintroduce Julian because it would confuse readers, but with the Sonic Archives coming out, they'll learn about him anyway. To gain that ample knowledge and then have Eggman on the cover when Julian's actually inside the book is not only a plothole but....confusing. No, Ian wasn't responsible for the cover, I understand. But he and the rest of the staff are condoning this. Including Spaz, whose been around longer than our current editor and was drawing comics when Julian was still alive.
...I'm still confused. Have there been two Robotniks or three throughout the comic?
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...I'm still confused. Have there been two Robotniks or three throughout the comic?
Well, there are many Robotniks in the book since there are hundreds if not thousands of realities out there. However only two Robotniks have tried making a serious campaign to gain conquest in this universe (Mobius Prime).
Okay, so the Robotnik in #75 was the Robotnik from Cyborg Sonic's world?
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Okay, so the Robotnik in #75 was the Robotnik from Cyborg Sonic's world?
That's correct.
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And Ian's not trying to write out the old Robotnik from history. But if you want to spend your time thinking he is, feel free to waste your time thinking about it.
He has a funny way of showing that when he's notorious for plotholes. Plotholes like the ones that I dunno, came in this issue, and issues prior to that?
Look, All I want him to understand is that there are people out there who care about continuity, and that they get ticked off or uptight when its tampered with. And not only it tampered with frequently, or by just anyone, but by someone whose been emphasizing in their writing, on fixing plotholes and explaining ideas, many of which have related to previous writers.
Not only that, but this is a long-time fan we're talking about. This is someone who the fans have associated with themselves, who they not only trusted to be consistant, but has made homages to things from issues that came long before Mina's intro, or Titan Tails.
He made a mistake. Okay. Its been done, and there's little else we can do about it now that its in the book. I'm not trying to fix every plothole, because its not only idealistic, but impossible. But I still feel the continuity should not be affected by the story. That means, I don't want to see something like Mina and Mighty robbed of their abilities when Mogul should never have had access to them in the first place.
All I'm asking is that instead of Ian insulting my "untrained eye" on Bumbleking because he can't give a rational answer to a plothole, he needs to just take from the experience and learn from it.
Disregard this post, my bad.
I remember reading before that Archie discourages mentioning of the Robotnik Vs. RoboRobotnik plotline because it could easily confuse new readers -- or even old readers who forgot the current RoboRobotnik is the current Eggman. And to top it all off, he got changed into a human. RoboRobotnik is now a human! Weird stuff.
But anyway, I don't get my issue of the comic until the discussion thread is about four pages long. This has been a pretty fiery thread, so I might wait until page five or six to start looking.
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I remember reading before that Archie discourages mentioning of the Robotnik Vs. RoboRobotnik plotline because it could easily confuse new readers -- or even old readers who forgot the current RoboRobotnik is the current Eggman. And to top it all off, he got changed into a human. RoboRobotnik is now a human! Weird stuff.
Very weird. And I thought the story concerning that fight was rather pointless and silly anyway. Robo-Robotnik has had a..very twisty history.
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But anyway, I don't get my issue of the comic until the discussion thread is about four pages long. This has been a pretty fiery thread, so I might wait until page five or six to start looking.
Well, what can I say? #185 left us with well.. a few plotholes at least. Controversy makes the world go 'round.
Page five or six you say? Well, alright. See ya there!
Y'know, you'd think it would be sufficient for his purpose if Mammoth Mogul did a Manchurian Candidate/Sleeper Cell number on Sonic alone; then we'd be set up for a simple story about how everyone else copes with/combats it and how Sonic gets his memory back (What, you think he WON'T? He's the frickin' HERO!). But Tails? AND Mina? AND Mighty? This had better be one hell of a plot ol' Fuzzbutt has come up with because the set-up looks like 100% American-Made overkill!!
Which, let's face it, is par for the course for comic books. 
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Y'know, you'd think it would be sufficient for his purpose if Mammoth Mogul did a Manchurian Candidate/Sleeper Cell number on Sonic alone
Why? Four minions are better than one - and if Tails & Mighty were free, they could help stop Mogul & save a brainwashed Sonic. Arguably, it'd be better for his purposes if he had more brainwashed heroes (but then he couldn't call them the Fearsome Four and have to spend all day thinking of a new name that Marvel/DC haven't take).
I remember reading before that Archie discourages mentioning of the Robotnik Vs. RoboRobotnik plotline because it could easily confuse new readers -- or even old readers who forgot the current RoboRobotnik is the current Eggman. And to top it all off, he got changed into a human. RoboRobotnik is now a human! Weird stuff.
Argh! My head hurts now.
On topic, I'm betting it'll only take two issues after they get brainwashed that they'll be back to normal, and that everyone will find some magical deus ex to do it.
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Y'know, you'd think it would be sufficient for his purpose if Mammoth Mogul did a Manchurian Candidate/Sleeper Cell number on Sonic alone; then we'd be set up for a simple story about how everyone else copes with/combats it and how Sonic gets his memory back (What, you think he WON'T? He's the frickin' HERO!).
Heeey, its Dan Drazen! I was wondering when he was gonna come to this topic! 
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Why? Four minions are better than one - and if Tails & Mighty were free, they could help stop Mogul & save a brainwashed Sonic. Arguably, it'd be better for his purposes if he had more brainwashed heroes
Well, I think you could both be right..in a way.
Looking at the history he's had with his previous minions, I suppose it'd be more likely for Mogul to have more than one. However, instead of "marking" people (since it doesn't really seem plausible by this point of the storyline until Ian can prove otherwise), I think it would've been more understandable if he did do something along the lines of what Dan suggested; that although he can't mark and possess characters at will, he can use more immediate brainwashing or telepathic techniques that could provide for perhaps unwitting sleeper cell agents. Better yet, sleeper agents who were actual Freedom Fighters. That way he could learn more about his opposition so that it'd give him more knowledge as to how he could defeat them.
Of course, his ability would have to have some serious limitations. Otherwise, it'd just be a plothole because he'd technically be able to do that with everyone-- and that would only beg the question why he hadn't sooner.
For Mogul, it was about being able to play his cards when he's able to play them, AND the fact that looking at the history of the precious Fearsome Foursome and the Destructix, he knows that they just lack the team work, and the fighting skill to beat the FFs and co. So why not use your enemy's best fighters against them?
Mogul also likely knows, quick fix brainwashing doesn't work out, so he left this hypnotic suggest root itself in their brains for YEARS before activating it, giving it time to become a functional part of their psychology, rather than something placed over it or overriding it.
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Mogul also likely knows, quick fix brainwashing doesn't work out, so he left this hypnotic suggest root itself in their brains for YEARS before activating it, giving it time to become a functional part of their psychology, rather than something placed over it or overriding it.
Well I already thought about that theory too (nice to know someone else did). The problem with that is again, it doesn't seem very likely. If it were only Mighty we were talking about then yes that'd be true. But Mina and Tails were marked a year ago. That means even if the seeding theory did indeed work hypothetically, it'd only take one year before it came into affect. If that were the case, don't you think he'd have marked the other Freedom Fighters a long time ago? He's had plenty of opportunities to do that in the past before Sonic got tossed in space, so why only Tails, and Mina? Again, it doesn't make much sense, and it doesn't seem very likely.
Well actually, sure, it could be explained that its because Mogul can only possess certain minds, and that some minds might take more time than others for this to take effect, but.. because we came up with the seeding theory and how it might work, and because Ian displayed no intention of using that plot idea prior to us saying it, he couldn't use this plotpont either way even if he wanted because we thought of it before he did--that'd be a fan submitted idea, which is under Archie policy, illegal.
EDIT: And I forgot to re-add the fact that he STILL hasn't found a way to explain Mina's. Even if he tried to write her as someone seeking her mother post #75, Mogul robbed her memory after their encounter. With robots already in the forest, it'd seem very unlikely that she'd get in there without being caught let alone be able to go all the way back after Mogul found her. Besides, she's the one who wanted to confront Eggman. She'd have just kept going until she was caught and roboticized. If the seeding theory were valid, Mogul could've telepathically led her to him, but his power would need to develop for about a year, and he wouldn't have been able to possess her until it were too late.
So until he finds another way, it'd be a plothole still.
...we should really stop theorizing, huh?
Anyway, I'll see what he does next issue. If he hasn't found a convincing way to fix this by then, I dub it a plothole until further notice.
Now for another episode of "what could have happened".
As for the brainwashing, what I'm saying is, perhaps he could've establsihed a telepathic link and then brainwashed a character into forgetting the encounter. This telepathic link would allow him to observe the other Freedom Fighters.
Granted he could only choose Sonic since he'd know a lot about the Freedom Fighter's abilities, but Mogul may need another spy to learn about them on a more personal level in case he could use that to his advantage. He doesn't know how well or poor Sonic gets along with every Freedom Fighter outside of work so he'd need another one, which would probably be Sally. She's not only their leader, but has access to the government of the land.
Of course, like I said these abilities need limitations. so that his powers don't have affect on everybody. That, and he can't keep a person telepathically linked to him forever. The link can wear over time, perhaps quickly and heals very slowly.. perhaps too slowly for Mogul. And if the link deteriorates, he cannot enter that mind again--or something like that. So it'd force him to be careful with who he chooses to probe. It'd also force him not to use the ability so leisurely.
Hey, this is fun! 
Crap, am I late for the party.
Sorry ShortChan, but RoboRobotnik did not come from the same zone as Cyborg Sonic. I don't have the scans, but both the Sonic and Robotnik (later to become RoboRobotnik) are clearly referenced in StH#22 pages 1-6. (in particular pages 2-5) (This is a particularly good issue if you loved Sonic In Your Face and hated M:25YL.)
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Sorry ShortChan, but RoboRobotnik did not come from the same zone as Cyborg Sonic. I don't have the scans, but both the Sonic and Robotnik (later to become RoboRobotnik) are clearly referenced in StH#22 pages 1-6.
Well according to page 5 of #74, he reffered to himself as the Robo-Robotnik from issue #19. Now I never said anything about whether or not it was a plothole, but rather, I should clarify, that this was what that they chose to work with at the time.
