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Sonic #185 main story discussion SPOILERS

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(@neoremington373)
Posts: 1195
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Ignoring the RoboRobotnik fiansco, after having read #185, I will admit I was rather happy that Mina's speed was artifical then through something she gained at birth (and only recently discovered it).

I never liked the idea of Mina having super speed as Sonic did, super speed is Sonic's thing and it makes him unique (okay, okay, baring Shadow the hedgehog in mind, that issue can't be helped) to me. Other then that, I'm curious on the intrigues and outcome of this issue, Ian certainly made quite an interesting story, let's see how he'll wrap it up by end.

 
(@gammarallyson)
Posts: 1100
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I don't mind Mina having Super Speed, the problem was thatwhen introduced, it just (at the time) came out of nowhere.

 
(@Anonymous)
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I never liked the idea of Mina having super speed as Sonic did, super speed is Sonic's thing and it makes him unique (okay, okay, baring Shadow the hedgehog in mind, that issue can't be helped) to me.


Thing is though, the fact Sonic has speed isn't what made him unique in the comic as many other characters have the speed ability. Lightning Lynx had it, Scourge and every other Sonic has had it, as did Shadow the Hedgehog, and to an extent Amy Rose. Heck, even Tails is faster than Mina and we might even be able to add Espio. The thing that made Sonic unique was the fact that he was the fastest character on Mobius, and I think Shadow and Scourge pose far more a threat to that than Mina ever did.

That's not to say I appreciate how it was developed (then again, I beleive Karl's original intention was to fleshen out the ability, but it got nixed for Sonic Adventure). However, I'm content with the prospect that she isn't as fast as Sonic. She isn't even using it to bond with him anymore! So why develop and worse, make a plothole over such an old concept that's been over and done with? If Ian's going to go that far back, he should've checked to see if the story idea was plausible. If not for whatever reason, then he shouldn't have touched on it and let it be.

Again, it was bad enough Mina's speed was poorly developed. No need to beat the dead connery and make a plothole out of it.

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Other then that, I'm curious on the intrigues and outcome of this issue, Ian certainly made quite an interesting story, let's see how he'll wrap it up by end.


I'm making a prediction that Mina's speed will get taken away next issue. :

 
(@psxphile_1722027877)
Posts: 5772
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A broken leg would do that.

With all these apparent plotholes littering the comic, a gal with a penchant for fast feet could fall in and get hurt!

 
(@toby-barrett)
Posts: 1127
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I see what you did there, and I laughed out loud.

 
(@neoremington373)
Posts: 1195
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That's not to say I appreciate how it was developed (then again, I beleive Karl's original intention was to fleshen out the ability, but it got nixed for Sonic Adventure). However, I'm content with the prospect that she isn't as fast as Sonic. She isn't even using it to bond with him anymore! So why develop and worse, make a plothole over such an old concept that's been over and done with? If Ian's going to go that far back, he should've checked to see if the story idea was plausible. If not for whatever reason, then he shouldn't have touched on it and let it be.


I see it more as Ian bringing in a sense of continuity. Whether Mina uses her speed as a plot point or not, it's become a staple of her and I suppose Ian managed to milk a plot with it. Hey, it's keeping me interested in #186.

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Again, it was bad enough Mina's speed was poorly developed. No need to beat the dead connery and make a plothole out of it.


We're complaining about plotholes in this comic? That's already been beaten to death. Poor Connery. His afterlife needs an afterlife at this point.
:spin

 
(@toby-barrett)
Posts: 1127
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Speaking of beating a dead horse, why are we still complaining about this "plothole"? I'm pretty sure everyone and thier mom is aware of it's existance, so why keep whining about it?

Geez, just let Ian tell the story, he'll fix it eventually.

 
(@Anonymous)
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Speaking of beating a dead horse, why are we still complaining about this "plothole"?


People debate and talk about it, because its a topic that interests them, apparently. S'what happens in a forum. Ian wrote something that hurt the continuity because he contradicted it. If he's the one who made the mistake, its no one else's fault that its being talked and debated over.

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I'm pretty sure everyone and thier mom is aware of it's existance, so why keep whining about it?


Well, I bring this up because of the frequency of which these plotholes are arriving. Its not just this issue. For instance, there have been plotholes in both Sally and Fiona's development. For Fiona's case, one plothole drastically changed her characterization, and even afterwards, it was an ongoing problem.

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Geez, just let Ian tell the story, he'll fix it eventually.


I'll let him tell the story. I just don't think he's going to fix the plothole. Why? Because not only was he clueless as to how when I asked, but he chose characters that would make Mogul's abilities near if not entirely implausible even it they were explained in-depth. I just hope he learns something from this experience.

 
 WB
(@_wb_)
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Quote:


With all these apparent plotholes littering the comic, a gal with a penchant for fast feet could fall in and get hurt!



LOL

 
(@gammarallyson)
Posts: 1100
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Quote:


With all these apparent plotholes littering the comic, a gal with a penchant for fast feet could fall in and get hurt!


LOL

... GWAD! I'm slow! XD;

 
(@exodus666)
Posts: 78
Estimable Member
 

This is probably off topic but... I subscribed to the comic like two weeks before #185 dropped and have yet to receive one in the mail yet, is that normal? Was I too late and should look for a copy or should I just be patient?

 
(@miss-puar)
Posts: 462
Reputable Member
 

If you don't mind having an extra, then by all means get one in-store. The first issue in a sub often comes late, and then the rest arrive on schedule.

 
(@exodus666)
Posts: 78
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:evil Good...good.:evil

 
(@psxphile_1722027877)
Posts: 5772
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Quote:


For Fiona's case, one plothole drastically changed her characterization, and even afterwards, it was an ongoing problem.


lol character development i dont like is plothole fix it ian plz

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I'll let him tell the story.


Like a rabid chihuahua continually nipping at the heels of the mailman trying to do his job.

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Because not only was he clueless as to how when I asked,


ProTip: Authors are not under any obligation to give away future plot points in order to satisfy reader ego.

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I just hope he learns something from this experience.


"never using Mina in a story again lol"

 
(@Anonymous)
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lol character development i dont like is plothole fix it ian plz


Its not a matter of it "just" being character development that I don't like. As hard as it is for some you to conceptualize, I actually liked Ian's opening concept of Fiona being a Freedom Fighter with a checkered past, and her having to struggling with that. However, her ditching Sonic in order to cheat on him for Scourge was development that lacked plausibility.

Fiona was established as someone who disliked bad boys, not someone who found them "fun". For a long time, she didn't like Sonic for acting in a way that Scourge naturally would have, and explained in #153 that she only forgave him because he prooved to her that he wasn't the jerk she initially thought he was. So, like/hate Fiona or SonFiona all you want, for Fi to all of a sudden ditch Sonic for being a "virtuous hero" over Scourge, especially when she's the one who encouraged this in #153 is OOC for her.
And before any of you go off saying that I have no proof, Ian had intended for Fiona to genuinely cheat on Sonic, and mentioned so on his board:

"I point everyone to Scourge's line in STH#165: "I love how she plays it like you two are for real."

At the very, very least since a little before STH#165 she was keeping up the act because she was enjoying the two-timing. No greater scheme, no over-arching great villainous plot; she and Scourge were sharing a long laugh at Sonic's expense."

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Like a rabid chihuahua continually nipping at the heels of the mailman trying to do his job.


If I were truly rabid I would've nipped heels a long time ago. Like I said, I just want him to understand that there are fans who do care about the continuity, and understand what plotholes--especially frequent ones can do to not only the story but the characters involved in them.

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ProTip: Authors are not under any obligation to give away future plot points in order to satisfy reader ego.


How is this a viable explanation? Firstly, other fans have asked questions regarding Ian's rationale for previous issues, and he's answered. Also, If your rationale were the reason, why didn't he just say what you've just said in the first place instead of trying to create explanations that didn't work? Why does he reffer to the plotholes as "blemishes" on bumbleking if they were intended from the start to be associated with a future plot point?

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"never using Mina in a story again lol"


Mina was not the only problem with the plausibility of this story. In the topic, we have gone over and discussed issues concerning the plausibility of Tails and Mighty. And now we're going into detail about Fiona. So, by your logic we should ban all of them from stories too? How is alienating or singling out fans of cast members going to solve a problem that has nothing to do with the characters?

 
(@tornadot)
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By his logic, he means that any issue that states anything about Mina is liable to be sent to the seventh circle of you know what by the Mina fanpeople who will scrutinize it to the nth degree.

 
(@toby-barrett)
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Quote:


Fiona was established as someone who disliked bad boys, not someone who found them "fun". For a long time, she didn't like Sonic for acting in a way that Scourge naturally would have, and explained in #153 that she only forgave him because he proved to her that he wasn't the jerk she initially thought he was.


She lied. She loves bad boys, she just hates Sonic. Don't care if it says so in the book, it works for me, and I move on with my life.

 
(@psxphile_1722027877)
Posts: 5772
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As hard as it is for some you to conceptualize, I actually liked Ian's opening concept of Fiona being a Freedom Fighter with a checkered past, and her having to struggling with that.


This was obvious.

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However, her ditching Sonic in order to cheat on him for Scourge was development that lacked plausibility.


*leans over in his chair and glares*

Go on...

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Fiona was established as someone who disliked bad boys, not someone who found them "fun". For a long time, she didn't like Sonic for acting in a way that Scourge naturally would have, and explained in #153 that she only forgave him because he prooved to her that he wasn't the jerk she initially thought he was. So, like/hate Fiona or SonFiona all you want, for Fi to all of a sudden ditch Sonic for being a "virtuous hero" over Scourge, especially when she's the one who encouraged this in #153 is OOC for her.


*leans back* Okay. Hypothetical situation time!

We're both sitting together on a tropical island resort hacienda, sipping our Pia Coladas and generally chatting it up and getting along, and we've only just met. A lone woman sits several feet away from us, just close enough to overhear our banter but not enough to appear to be eavesdropping.

Now, by her viewpoint she sees and hears our mannerisms and conversations and assumes that we're nice, well meaning people who appear to lead regular lives. What she doesn't know is that I'm actually a serial killer looking for my next victim with a long history of gruesome killings in my past. Now, the lone woman could not possibly know this is she's just a stranger who takes what she sees and hears as fact because she has no other information to base her assumptions on.

Later, after it becomes known that I convinced you to come to my room later only to bludgeon you to death the woman, horrified, simply ponders: 'But... he seemed like such a nice guy by all accounts. Who could've have known he was criminally insane?'

D'you see where I'm going with this? YOU'RE DEAD. According to the woman who was witness to our meeting, I established myself as a well-to-do dapper fellow with romance on his mind. But this was only what I wanted everyone to see, and I was soon to reveal the truth which, as far as the woman is able to comprehend, would appear to go against my earlier persona.

What you think might be OOC could later be revealed to be something that was 'just as planned' all along. This is especially true for long-running comic book series that has had many different writers adding their own ideas to an already bulbous continuity.

That being said, Karl introduced Fiona back into the comic as a regular member of the Freedom Fighters but was unable to do anything with her exclusively before he left (did he have any plans?). Ian so far is the only one who has attempted to develop her character further along, despite what you may think. Her new persona is that of someone, who for all intents and purposes is not an "evil" person but chooses to pursue a dark path of her own volition because she finds it appealing.

Just because that's not how she was written before does not preclude it from being possible. You simply don't know enough about her to be able to make that call. You're only assuming a persona based on what you've seen so far.

Unlike with, say, Marvel's Peter Parker who has had years and years of stories that have established quite sufficiently his base motivations, thoughts, ideals and actions where a major deviation for his character could be seen as going OOC. Fiona, unfortunately, doesn't have enough about her said and done to allow that kind of clout. Ian had already raised the issue of her past dealings with Bark and Bean, so her sudden decision to drop the good girl act is not as sudden as you would have us believe.

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If I were truly rabid I would've nipped heels a long time ago.


Coincidently, Mina the Mongoose hasn't been featured for a while.

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Like I said, I just want him to understand that there are fans who do care about the continuity, and understand what plotholes--especially frequent ones can do to not only the story but the characters involved in them.


He doesn't need you to remind him of the obvious. Unlike the previous "professionals" who have graced the comic, Ian comes from the same stock as you and I-- concerned fans. WHY, I DO DECLARE HE IS INTIMATELY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT SUCH THINGS, MILADY, HAVING RAISED SIMILAR POINTS WITH THE CREATIVES HIMSELF PRIOR TO HIS "ADVENT".

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How is this a viable explanation?


It's actually more sound than you care to realize. As a matter of fact, I just went over it.

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Firstly, other fans have asked questions regarding Ian's rationale for previous issues, and he's answered.


When it suited him.

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Also, If your rationale were the reason, why didn't he just say what you've just said in the first place instead of trying to create explanations that didn't work?


BECAUSE CLEARLY HE APPEARS TO BE AWARE THAT YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN DIRECT QUOTATIONS FROM ESTABLISHED SOURCES.

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Mina was not the only problem with the plausibility of this story. In the topic, we have gone over and discussed issues concerning the plausibility of Tails and Mighty. And now we're going into detail about Fiona. So, by your logic we should ban all of them from stories too?


tornadot answered this quite well. I honestly do not believe that you question Ian's handling of the issue because of your concern for Tails, Mighty and Fiona.

holy crap its late lol

 
(@Anonymous)
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She lied. She loves bad boys, she just hates Sonic. Don't care if it says so in the book, it works for me, and I move on with my life.


That's very unlikely. There's a fine line between writing that allows free interpretation, and a plothole. When she tried finding in Sonic what she apparently found in Scourge, she was attempting to seek a genuine relationship with Sonic. If she genuinely hated Sonic, why would she even attempt that? And if she was originally intending to try finding in Sonic what she did in her current boyfriend, why did she chastize Sonic for attributes that were akin to Scourge like selfishness?

However, I suppose that even all that sidesteps the real indicator. If you read above to Ian's response, he replied that there was no greater scheme involved with her cheating on Sonic. It was simply because, under Ian's writing, Fiona preffered Scourge more, romantically. So there's no way she could've lied, loved bad boys and hated Sonic. It was a plothole that created an impacting turning point in her life.

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This was obvious.


Yes, its obvious Fiona's had a checkered past. However, I don't beleive Ken or Karl were the ones who established the concept of her having to struggle with that prior history.

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Just because that's not how she was written before does not preclude it from being possible.


Its guilty until proven innocent. Ian can try to write the Scourge/Fiona backstory more plausibly. He has that right. But until it is explained to be more beleivable it is a plothole.

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You simply don't know enough about her to be able to make that call. You're only assuming a persona based on what you've seen so far.


I think there's enough information distributed in prior issues to confrim that as of now, this concept was a plothole.

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BECAUSE CLEARLY HE APPEARS TO BE AWARE THAT YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN DIRECT QUOTATIONS FROM ESTABLISHED SOURCES.


He may have used quotations to explain the telepathy/possession bit, but the manner of which he explained the plausibility of the characters getting hexed in the first place, didn't have any quotations from established sources. He even said he "didn't know". Why say that when he could have simply responded "wait until the next story or future issues" like he's said concerning stories he has a better grasp of?

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He doesn't need you to remind him of the obvious.


Well apparently he does, because there are so many plotholes and on a consistant basis.

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It's actually more sound than you care to realize. As a matter of fact, I just went over it.


And I already responded. So I ask again, how is this a viable explanation?

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tornadot answered this quite well. I honestly do not believe that you question Ian's handling of the issue because of your concern for Tails, Mighty and Fiona.


If Ian were allowed to write plotholes for one character, he can and has done so for more. And if he is able to do that, then technically another writer should be able to do the same thing when they get in the book thus creating even more problems.

Even to your own testimony, Ian was a "concerned fan". So, if by what you're saying--that he's so concerned about the welfare of the storyline, why is he destroying it by creating plotholes? ? So I may like Mina. So what? I've been at other forums discussing these problems the moment they've arrived. The only reason I never spoke out about Sally, Fiona, etc.'s issues here (until they were pried out) were due to the restrictions of certain discussions on this board. You're are free to go to other MBs like FUS where I've had a history of discussing these issues with the other characters frequently, but this board does not really welcome such topics that might be associated with them. Secondly, the problems in #185 has nothing to do with the restrictions, and in addtion featured multiple plotholes. That's why I decided it was appropriate to discuss the plotholes for this story, here. Mina was just coincidentally in the issue.

 
(@toby-barrett)
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Quote:


That's very unlikely. There's a fine line between writing that allows free interpretation, and a plothole. When she tried finding in Sonic what she apparently found in Scourge, she was attempting to seek a genuine relationship with Sonic. If she genuinely hated Sonic, why would she even attempt that? And if she was originally intending to try finding in Sonic what she did in her current boyfriend, why did she chastize Sonic for attributes that were akin to Scourge like selfishness?

However, I suppose that even all that sidesteps the real indicator. If you read above to Ian's response, he replied that there was no greater scheme involved with her cheating on Sonic. It was simply because, under Ian's writing, Fiona preffered Scourge more, romantically. So there's no way she could've lied, loved bad boys and hated Sonic. It was a plothole that created an impacting turning point in her life.


Because she's a liar, and a con artist? Did you ever read what I just said? Of course not, PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE

PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE

 
(@crazy-cham-lea_1722585730)
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Quote:


Fiona was established as someone who disliked bad boys, not someone who found them "fun". For a long time, she didn't like Sonic for acting in a way that Scourge naturally would have, and explained in #153 that she only forgave him because he prooved to her that he wasn't the jerk she initially thought he was. So, like/hate Fiona or SonFiona all you want, for Fi to all of a sudden ditch Sonic for being a "virtuous hero" over Scourge, especially when she's the one who encouraged this in #153 is OOC for her.


Actually, given that before all that it was established that...
a) she hated Sonic
b) she managed to hold onto a grudge for almost ten years and
c) she hung out and worked with a girl who had no problems about shooting innocents if it meant she got paid

...I'd think her behaviour in #153 was OOC. Her actions post everything with Scourge is far more in-line with her earlier portrayal than her random be-a-filler-FF who suddenly decides she's into forgiving others.

Fiona in #153 teh plothole omg.

 
(@psxphile_1722027877)
Posts: 5772
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The only reason I never spoke out about Sally, Fiona, etc.'s issues here (until they were pried out) were due to the restrictions of certain discussions on this board.


You are directly responsible for those restrictions being put in place, Fraulein. Your ability to drag any well-meaning thread through the mud to satisfy your Mina worship is legendary, and this thread was given the chance to continue unabated to allow you the opportunity to vent without destroying other threads in the process.

How fortunate that currently you're only concerned with the present issue at hand.

 
(@samanfur-the-fox)
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Quote:


did he have any plans?


Yes, he did. Check the breakdown of Karl's projected plotlines before he left - it's in the comic section.

Personally, I have my own theory on whether or not Fiona lied about being attracted to or forgiving Sonic (and I'm not so sure that she did, either) - but I'm saving that for a thread that's actually going to move on as a discussion.

And on that note... what Psx said.

I've been staying out of this as long as it's only in one thread and that's not even disturbing actual discussion of 185, rather than your historically proven cyclical determination to run a thread into the floor if it doesn't take your viewpoint with adulation - and quite frankly, Shorty, you're taking the rope and hanging yourself.

You were lucky not to get treated the same way as Miko and Ticaru for behaving like this before, and nobody here wants that. I'm not saying that it's on the table now - just that I'd rather say something before things go that way again.

You've heard this before, but: for your own sake, try listening to people rather than just seemingly carrying on like this for the sake of it - it's not everyone's idea of "fun" to watch.

This is a discussion forum. There can't be much discussion going on when your only responses to anything that you don't agree with in spite of any and all evidence are "You're all wrong!" or "La la la - I'm not listening!".

If everyone else was having your idea of "fun", there'd be more people in this thread, wouldn't they?

 
(@lil-susy941)
Posts: 112
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On Sonic/Fiona; it isn't all that impossible for someone to have a grudge against someone for years upon years and then end up having a crush on the bad version of what you thought that person to be. Maybe I'm just relating, but perhaps Fiona has such a deep grudge and held Sonic in such a perspective for so long she's gotten too used to it. She found out Sonic was a hero after all but maybe deep down inside it unsettles her she's used to the idea of there being a bad Sonic. In comes Scourge and he's like the bad version of Sonic she sees in her mind and she should hate him but maybe she's relieved because he's the devil she knows. It's like a spouse being abused they have some childhood thing where their Dad beats them and they may grow up resenting that but in the end they enter an abusive relationship anyway because they're so used to what they've been through they rather carry it on rather than enter some sort of change.

This isn't meant to explain any plothole BTW I'm just hyposthesising because I felt like it.

 
(@psxphile_1722027877)
Posts: 5772
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Aha, we lost some posts here too.

And I like that idea, Susy. Paints her as a bit of a tragic character. It probably would never go that deep within the comic but its a nice theory on the character's motivations nonetheless.

 
(@chaorcute)
Posts: 981
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So, does this mean that Shorty's ban didn't happen or what? :O

EDIT: And to add more to the thread, and to stay directly on topic...

Since I just got the issue a few days ago, and really didn't notice all the hecticness in here.

Well, the whole issue didn't catch much of my interest. Didn't really have enough substance. Seemed more like the second story derailed the main story for more room to actually fit something other than "onoz, it's mogul, and mina returned, and now she tails and mighty are about to do something to sonic through yet, another cliched tactic".

At least we found out more about Mighty and his past and how Mina (plothole-y (!) got her powers).

 
 WB
(@_wb_)
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We lost posts and sigs and pictures. We didn't lose any bans.

 
(@antimobiusmatrix)
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I don't see why a "ban" is grounds for a smiley, Dub. Why don't we continue to discuss Issue 185 in a calm, respectful manner?

My two cents on it was simple...I didn't read the second story. I do however see a LOT of plotholes involved with the first story.

Mogul for one would've been trapped in the Master Emerald while Mina was trying to find her Mom. Wasn't he also comatose at the time? So how the heck would he have done that?
Also...why didn't Mogul take advantage of that mystical power hold he had on Tails while he was Titan Tails?
Thirdly, he could've taken advantage of having a control on Mighty while he was on Angel Island.
All I see is a hurried and rushed plot without much thinking given to it. While I CAN see the idea of mogul using telepathic communication to activate the "spell" that he had on him, the timing of the events that happened for this to happen not only make sense, but are filled with so many plotholes, it makes very little sense at all that these things even took place.

 
(@charlesrocketboy)
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Also...why didn't Mogul take advantage of that mystical power hold he had on Tails while he was Titan Tails?

Titan Tails is the amalgamation of masses of Tailses, I doubt Mogul would have that mystical hold over him - too many other Tails minds/souls getting in the way.

 
(@questern)
Posts: 308
Reputable Member
 

Mogul for one would've been trapped in the Master Emerald while Mina was trying to find her Mom. Wasn't he also comatose at the time? So how the heck would he have done that?

From what I can tell, this is the only glaring plothole, and I'm sure there's a good explanation following up. My money's on the fact that Mogul was already pretty damn powerful by himself, and coupled with the fact that he was trapped in the Master Emerald, a pretty damn powerful source of power in itself, I'm sure he could manage to pull a few strings.
EDIT: Oh crap! My avatar!! MUST FIX!! X_X

 
(@tornadot)
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Perhaps he could have pulled a Sephiroth. I mean it is possible as well since he has incredible telepathic powers.

 
(@antimobiusmatrix)
Posts: 69
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That might work if he was awake. But if he was comatose, then...ah...no. I don't think that would've been possible. Besides while emerald energy can be drawn upon from outside, I'm not sure how it would work from inside if it was capable of even emitting energy on it's own. I realize Mogul was in there...but he was pretty much dead-cold and out. Maybe it would've worked if he was awake...but like I said I don't know how it would've worked from within.
It just seems VERY unlikely, and why didn't he also use Mighty to steal the emerald long ago when they were on Angel Island?
Also...if Mogul did have a hold of Tails...yeah ok I'm buying the whole "Titan Tails would've been too powerful for Mogul to take control of" deal, but he COULD'VE taken control of him before as powerful as he was, especially since right now in his weakened state.

 
(@matt7325)
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I'm really not seeing the problem with any plotholes here that can't be explained away with a little thought.

Mina debuted in #76, Mogul was released in #80ish, and Mina didn't exhibit speed until like #92. The SA arc took place during this time which gives us a long period in which we didn't see any events from Knothole or Mobotropolis. It's quite possible, and I think very likely, that Mina would have come back to Mobotropolis at some point during this to try and rescue her mother again - and this is after Mogul had been released.

Re: Tails, I pretty much agree with what Charles said - if it had just been Tails vs. Mogul in an all-out to the death, he probably would have "awoken" him earlier, but Titan Tails probably wasn't the most convenient or easiest time for him.

And as for why Mighty was never awoken before (steal the sword, smash the emerald, etc) - we've seen Mogul has spent decades planning things, has contingency plans for contingency plans, and is willing to wait a long time for success. Why would he jeopardize having Mighty under his thumb as he did when he didn't need to use him - sure it might have been more effective to just "awaken" Mighty and have him run off with the Sword of Acorns, but why lose that asset when his plan was working fine as it is? Think of it as a "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?-esque lifeline - use all your lifelines on the first few questions and you'll get them all right, but then you've got no lifelines because you wasted them on something you probably would have gotten right by yourself.

 
(@rosas)
Posts: 77
Estimable Member
 

Well for me the story was instesting to say the least, and I do agree that Mina's and possibly Mighty's powers might get taken away and that as time goes on towards the issiues afterwards that they both may have some explaining to do about the deals they made with Mougl.

I also think that Mougl may have something to do with former king Max's adduite as of a late, for example read his (King Max that is) reaction in #177 and at the end of #178 to see what I'm talking about.

And in my belief, I don't think Mougl's mind control will last halfway though the next issiue.

Also I believe that what Mougl is after is what a certain red echdina is guarding at the moment with his friends.

But overall not a bad story to start out with, I give it a 7.5/10, and just have to wait and see what the next issiue will be like and again I don't think the mind control will last halfway though the next issiue.

-Till Next Time, Rosas.

 
(@antimobiusmatrix)
Posts: 69
Trusted Member
 

I'm really not seeing the problem with any plotholes here that can't be explained away with a little thought.

Really? Because the funny part is...you could do the exact same thing with Ken's stuff. o.o Yet everyone hated that. Now...why is this?
Because it seems to me Ian's trying to fix things is only creating more plotholes. The Comic's screwed up almost well beyond repair. He's just doing stuff that the people want...rather than trying to create a good thought-out storyline.

Mina debuted in #76, Mogul was released in #80ish, and Mina didn't exhibit speed until like #92. The SA arc took place during this time which gives us a long period in which we didn't see any events from Knothole or Mobotropolis. It's quite possible, and I think very likely, that Mina would have come back to Mobotropolis at some point during this to try and rescue her mother again - and this is after Mogul had been released.

Yet the scene where she's looking for her mom is in issue 76. It's almost exactly like the one in that issue. It's close, but close only counts in horseshoes.

Re: Tails, I pretty much agree with what Charles said - if it had just been Tails vs. Mogul in an all-out to the death, he probably would have "awoken" him earlier, but Titan Tails probably wasn't the most convenient or easiest time for him.

And what about right before he became Titan Tails? He could've struck then, and being as intelligent as he is I think he'd know all about the chosen one and be able to predict what'll happen. He just sees a little brat standing there waiting to fight him. If I were him I would've just knocked him out of the way and caused him to cease to exist.

And as for why Mighty was never awoken before (steal the sword, smash the emerald, etc) - we've seen Mogul has spent decades planning things, has contingency plans for contingency plans, and is willing to wait a long time for success. Why would he jeopardize having Mighty under his thumb as he did when he didn't need to use him - sure it might have been more effective to just "awaken" Mighty and have him run off with the Sword of Acorns, but why lose that asset when his plan was working fine as it is? Think of it as a "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?-esque lifeline - use all your lifelines on the first few questions and you'll get them all right, but then you've got no lifelines because you wasted them on something you probably would have gotten right by yourself.

I don't think that it's quite like who wants to be a millionaire...because who's to say he couldn't use them more than once?
He had ample opportunity to use these upper hands and hasn't. It just seems silly that all of a sudden 'let's create this underdeveloped plot point to explain away everything that's happening.'

But overall not a bad story to start out with, I give it a 7.5/10, and just have to wait and see what the next issiue will be like and again I don't think the mind control will last halfway though the next issiue.

Heh. I'd give it more like a 4 or 5. There's potential there, but it's highly underdeveloped.
Also, why choose Sonic as Mogul's fourth if he's already got someone that has superspeed? Why not choose someone else? With a different ability/talent eh? ^^;

 
(@tornadot)
Posts: 1567
Noble Member
 

If he was comatose...does it actually say what was his state of being like while in the emerald?

 
(@antimobiusmatrix)
Posts: 69
Trusted Member
 

I was told he was...although it still doesn't make sense for a master emerald that's REALLY far away to just...reach miles and miles away to activate super speed.

 
(@questern)
Posts: 308
Reputable Member
 

Also, why choose Sonic as Mogul's fourth if he's already got someone that has superspeed? Why not choose someone else? With a different ability/talent eh? ^^;

1 . It's never hurt to have 2 speed-type characters on your hands. Definite strategy potential.
2 . Mina's speed skills aren't nearly as developed as Sonic's. Not by a long shot. But she could learn.
3 . Why are people still gripping about the plotholes?! **exasperated**
4 . Mogul's been around for over 3000 years. About 80% of that time he's been in a position of high power in one way or another. The other 20% of that time was plotting. I don't think he minded waiting, especially when that means that he could catch his targets/enemies off guard with them thinking that he had no other options left. **agress with Matt**

EDIT: OMG POST 666!!

 
(@antimobiusmatrix)
Posts: 69
Trusted Member
 

You offer some good points there, Questern. You've ALL offered some good points.
Buuuuut none of it really makes any sense to me. Sure I get the having the two speed types...but if I was going to create a team...I'd want variety.
And honestly, if you have to think too hard about explaining a plot hole...then I feel it means the plot hole is too deep. I can understand that with multiple writers you're bound to run into them...(even in the case of one writer and a series...like JK Rowling ran into plot holes with the HP series) but considering how rushed and underdeveloped the story seems, I don't think that these are "acceptable" plot holes.

 
(@tornadot)
Posts: 1567
Noble Member
 

It's kind of complicated but I can see Mogul using his powers, which probably could be enhanced since he's stuck in an eternal power source with no limits whatsoever, to create a physical representation of himself with part of his powers that could enhance Mina's natural abilities...or he could have just pulled a Sephy and controlled someone and mentally altered their appearance, while giving them some of his power to do his thing to Mina...

 
(@antimobiusmatrix)
Posts: 69
Trusted Member
 

Maaaaybe.
I just have one question for everyone then. You guys all give valid points, I'll give you that.
But are your opinions based on the fact that this is a different author from Ken Penders or uhm..that other guy you hated (forget his name) or do you guys really just like Ian's work?
Personally I like a smooth plot...not something that's complicated and doesn't make sense. The plot should explain itself y'know? I mean, I see your point, it is POSSIBLE. But the probability is like the probability of me growing wings and being able to fly. Y'know what I mean?

 
(@psxphile_1722027877)
Posts: 5772
Illustrious Member
 

I'd just assume let the story arc run its course and then judge whether it fails or not rather than tear it down before it even gets a chance to tell its story.

If you prefer to allow a plot to explain itself, that is.

 
 DC
(@_dc_)
Posts: 356
Reputable Member
 

Is Fiona currently in character or out of character? I am confused! I do know that a good number of fans seem to like her characterization now.

 
(@darkest-light)
Posts: 1376
Noble Member
 

Fiona and Mina man I forgot who we're talking about.

MAKE THE BAD MEN STOP!!!

 
(@antimobiusmatrix)
Posts: 69
Trusted Member
 

I'd just assume let the story arc run its course and then judge whether it fails or not rather than tear it down before it even gets a chance to tell its story.

If you prefer to allow a plot to explain itself, that is.

Fair enough. Not like anything I say will stop it anyway.

 
 DC
(@_dc_)
Posts: 356
Reputable Member
 

Also, I wonder if anyone else has been "hexed" by Mogul, like Sally or Max. Considering what has happened so far, I wouldn't be surprised.

 
(@hypershadow77)
Posts: 1402
Noble Member
 

Fiona and Mina man I forgot who we're talking about.

MAKE THE BAD MEN STOP!!!

Basically we're talking about someone who's not sally. and that upsets certain people i guess.

 
(@shigamado_1722585792)
Posts: 526
Honorable Member
 

The whole "magic touch" thing is satisfactory enough for me.

The bigger question is, who else did he give that magic touch to that we don't know about?

P.S. You can call Fiona OOC all you want, but she's a far more interesting character now than she ever was.

 
(@gammarallyson)
Posts: 1100
Noble Member
 

The bigger question is, who else did he give that magic touch to that we don't know about?

... You just keep on winning, Your Majesty!

Crown & Royal Throne to come soon...

 
(@shigamado_1722585792)
Posts: 526
Honorable Member
 

Well, I actually meant plotwise, he could've bestowed more people with power than we know of, but if you insist...

Mongul - Behold child! I am Mammoth Mongul!

Kid Mighty - Ummm.....hello.

Mongul - Would you like to have you own superpower?

Kid Mighty - Yea!! That'd be awesome!

Mongul - Child, I could give you the vertiable strength of Hercules himself!!

Kid Mighty - ??? Who?

Mongul - The Greek god.

Kid Mighty - Still not following.

Mongul - He had his own Disney movie, and will replace the Hulk for a short time in the comics ten years from now.

Kid Mighty - Oh him!! Yeah, that'd be cool!

Mongul - Fine, fine. All I have to do is give you the Magic Touch!

Kid Mighty - .......The "Magic Touch"?

Mongul - Sure!! Just hop into my Mini-Van, and I'll-

Kid Mighty - *running away* STRANGER DANGER! STRANGER DANGER!!

Mongul - I have GOT to stop mentioning the Mini-Van.

 
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