So Espio is captured by whatever that green glove is...
Well, it would have to be a capture, because I'm really not convinced that Espio would be dead for the same reasons that you guys said about him being one of the game characters.
Quite honestly, though, there's a part of me that feels that if SEGA REALLY wanted Ian and Archie to do it, now could very well be the ultimate opportunity to push the cosmic reset button and say, "You know what? We don't care about all these stupid characters that DiC came up with. After all, hardly anyone outside of America knows about them, and they don't really make us that much money. So let's get rid of them. Archie, have your writers create a storyline where everyone except Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman and all of our other creations dies. And while you're at it, lose this whole Knothole and Robotropolis thing. Let's move everyone permanently to Station Square where we set the games and leave it there. All that other stuff is just too confusing and dull. This is OUR licensed character, and it is OUR decision how we want it marketed. Don't worry, our audience is all 10-year old kids. They won't notice the difference."
Yikes... OK, I just officially creeped myself out. I have NEVER in my life been this cynical about the comic before. Seriously. And to think that this is the first time I've commented in print about the comic in 3 years and I'm saying this... Even when "Endgame" brought me into the game 10 years ago, I didn't feel this negative.
I would cry right now in shame if I was physically capable of doing so. Someone help me...
Quite honestly, though, there's a part of me that feels that if SEGA REALLY wanted Ian and Archie to do it, now could very well be the ultimate opportunity to push the cosmic reset button and say, "You know what? We don't care about all these stupid characters that DiC came up with. After all, hardly anyone outside of America knows about them, and they don't really make us that much money. So let's get rid of them. Archie, have your writers create a storyline where everyone except Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman and all of our other creations dies. And while you're at it, lose this whole Knothole and Robotropolis thing. Let's move everyone permanently to Station Square where we set the games and leave it there. All that other stuff is just too confusing and dull. This is OUR licensed character, and it is OUR decision how we want it marketed. Don't worry, our audience is all 10-year old kids. They won't notice the difference."
Yep. You just described my worst fear. Sega going on a power trip and demanding everything be refitted to their vision. And just for the sake of doing so, they would make Archie introduce that new villain, Captain Whiskers, or whoever that is from Sonic Rush Adventure. The thought churns my stomach.
Quote:
you're telling me Eggman plans to destroy Knothole using an army of those wind-up toys? How I long for the Shadow 'Bots and Com-Bots.
Why'd they be more likely to destroy Knothole? Sonic and the FFs beat them up all the time, just like with the Egg Pawns. And considering the sheer numbers they've got and the massive armada of flying warships Eggman's using, they've got a pretty good shot at it...
Quote:
And just for the sake of doing so, they would make Archie introduce that new villain, Captain Whiskers, or whoever that is from Sonic Rush Adventure
Well, yes. It's a licensed comic, the licenser is perfectly within their rights to make the licensee comic introduce a new character from the games. They've done it before - Knuckles, Nack, Rouge et al - and so have other licensers (the original Transformers was introducing new toys every issue for some stretches).
That'd be funny, I say they go for it.
Yeah, you can't really go wrong with an evil robot kitten pirate. It writes itself! 
I agree on the whole mecha situation. The shadow bots and combots were much more menacing and, from what I remember of them, the combots at least were alot deadlier. It also strikes me that they reflected the original Robotnik: when you look at them, you know they mean business and do plenty of damage even if they can be deafeated.
These new egg robots also reflect the Robotnik we're dealing with now in terms of both physical appearance and psyche: cartoonishly disproportinate, pitifully laughable and rarely threatening. I just want to know when and how the shadows, coms, amd E-100s were written out.
On the opposite hand, I'm impressed with the battle armor, and the Egg fleet's lastest appearance despite being modeled after fish, which makes little sense to me.
Quote:
These new egg robots also reflect the Robotnik we're dealing with now in terms of both physical appearance and psyche: cartoonishly disproportinate, pitifully laughable and rarely threatening.
"Rarely threatening"? Eggman reconquered Mobius, released Chaos, killed & forcibly roboticised multiple characters including Nate and his own brother, turned Angel Island into a big concentration camp, killed his own surrogate daughter, completely destroying the Golden Hive and apparently filmed it all for his own amusement, used overwhelming firepower to flatten other powerful villains, and was deliberately erasing the minds & souls of the Egg Grape prisoners just for fun.
Eggman is damn threatening.
Eggman is not threatening...not in the least. His design is too cartoonish, and his acts of "evil" are unbalanced. One moment he's torturing the citizens of Angel Island, the next, he's letting Sonic off the hook after a tiring battle with Mogul. A real villain would take advantage of a weakened hero.
Quote:
he's letting Sonic off the hook after a tiring battle with Mogul. A real villain would take advantage of a weakened hero.
It's a little something called foreshadowing. Robotnik's let Sonic go, what, three times in Ian's tenure so far? Obviously he's after more than just killing Sonic himself outright or he would have done so already - come #175 I'm positive we'll learn exactly why Robotnik's held off from a major attack lately.
Also, what on earth does "looking cartoonish" have to do with being threatening? Thee have been dozens of serious, threatening villains that have being designed with a cartoon-y look in mind - just compare anyone from Dr. Claw to the Joker to Magneto. Not every bad guy has to be some horrible monstrous Vader lookalike.
Not to mention, SatAM's Robotnik had a cartooney design as well.
Yeah, morbidly obese with red eyes, a giant orange mustache and a cone head don't come off as cartoony?
In fact, he looks like Fred Flintstone.
Quote:
Eggman is not threatening...not in the least.
He was deliberately burning people's SOULS away for no other reason than because he got a buzz out of it! You don't find that threatening? I can't think offhand of a nastier Robotnik/Eggman moment, and I've seen the guy attempt to kill the entire planet simply to watch it happen - the Egg Grapes is far more directly malicious. Kudos to you, Ian, kudos.
How is it you don't have a job working for Archie, Toby?
Several reasons. Many of them sad and sweet. =p
^Snively as Wilma just makes it all the more win.
Toby your some kinda brilliant.
After seeing Robotnik as Fred, I shall never be clean again. 
Got the issue today. The remark Sally made about Bunnie wanting to Sally's hair really takes me back to the early issues. I don't know if its just me, but I really like how Tracey Yardley draws the Chao. They seem so much more adorable!
Any man, no matter how goofy he is/looks, that can command an army of robots is a threat in my books. Love the picture of Robotik as Flintstone!
Quote:
Quite honestly, though, there's a part of me that feels that if SEGA REALLY wanted Ian and Archie to do it, now could very well be the ultimate opportunity to push the cosmic reset button and say, "You know what? We don't care about all these stupid characters that DiC came up with. After all, hardly anyone outside of America knows about them, and they don't really make us that much money. So let's get rid of them. Archie, have your writers create a storyline where everyone except Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman and all of our other creations dies. And while you're at it, lose this whole Knothole and Robotropolis thing. Let's move everyone permanently to Station Square where we set the games and leave it there.
Based on purely my own preferences, I'd want a more SEGA-themed comic without most of the FF. However, I think SatAM fans deserve to have the characters continued in the comic. They've been a big part of supporting it. I know what it's like to have management do something you really don't like (I.E. underrepresented Chaotix) so I defnitely wouldn't like it if they did that either.
SEGA and Archie respect the money they get from those fans, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do that. If any rep got that idea (not likely), Mike Pellerito would probably tell them that it would be bad for sales.
Quote:
After seeing Robotnik as Fred, I shall never be clean again.
i'm guessing you've never seen LNR? yeah i almost burned my own eyes out.
also, Dr. Robotnik is fine the way he is. btw he let sonic go because he is still human, and he was tired. it shows a little more depth in his character, it's not like he was gloating that "oh i could've killed you if i wanted to" it was just because he had to witness (and take part of) the death of his own children. (not biological of course but an "offspring" doesn't always have to be for someone to take compassion for them.)
Quote:
i'm guessing you've never seen LNR? yeah i almost burned my own eyes out.
i108.photobucket.com/albu...by/LNR.jpg
It's not Jon Gray's, but it should do the trick. Xp
And I have to agree, I found it very beleivable that Eggman wouldn't even want to attempt to attack Sonic after seeing his own children, biological or not, die. This also shows that he is able to feel compassion as well, which makes a much more interesting villain than a Dr. Claw wannabe.
MY EYES!!! THE GOGGLES!! THEY DO NOTHING!!
Quote:
MY EYES!!! THE GOGGLES!! THEY DO NOTHING!!
yup. that's how we all reacted to it, you are no longer an LNR virgin.
Quote:
i'm guessing you've never seen LNR?
I spent years and years trying to forget about that.
well now you remember............ZE HORROR!!!
Too bad no signs of the Rogues to cause havoc (they don't turn on Eggman in the comic).
What a beautiful sunset.... let the long dark night begin!
Quote:
ZE HORROR!!!
I have seen The Descent and it was nowhere near as scary as LNR.
Dub IS Doktor Sleepless. (Except not white and with a better haircut)
YOU'VE WATCHED IT. YOU CAN'T UNWATCH IT.
On the subject of the Sega/Sat a.m. comic debate, I think the best solution is to have the Sonic X comic more Sega themed and the other comic lean more towards Sonic Sat a.m.
Seems like a logical split, DC. No matter what debate there has been, there will always be two sides of the battle.
Why can't we just have both SATam and Sega in the book and be happy? That is what is currently happening and I'm fine with it! I've been around almost since the begining of the series and I honestly like what is happening! SATam Vs. SEGA. In my opinion they are both awesome and neither one of them is better than the other!
Quote:
Why can't we just have both SATam and Sega in the book and be happy?
why can't archie just be archie without being stereotyped into either category?
why can't we just except the writers for what they right?
Quote:
Why can't we just have both SATam and Sega in the book and be happy?
Fanboyism
Quote:
I think the best solution is to have the Sonic X comic more Sega themed
Not Sonic X themed then?
Sonic X was always Sega themed...because Sonic X came from Sega. I also think the Sega injections would be better suited over there.
In StH...I still think Archie should be running away from Sega right now.
Archie should be running away from the company that owns the copyrighted characters it's paying to use?
Archie should be running away from a company that's churned out nothing but crap console titles with even crappier narratives with their character.
Are you talking about Sega now or Sega always? Because traditionally, crap games don't end up spawning high-selling sequels and franchises and, for that matter, have people paying to make comics out of them.
As for crappy narratives - they're video games. No-one played Sonic 2 for the narrative, they played for, well, the gameplay.
I'm talking about Sega now: The "non hardware specific" Sega merged into Sammy that has treated the Sonic franchise with nothing but complacency over the last five years. Archie should be running away from them. And with regards to the narratives: The paper-thin plots of the old games were stories Archie could integrate with no problem. They were the basis for everything pertaining to this series. But attempts to amalglamate these newer, convoluted plotlines are degrading the continuity, and they have little to do with the games of old. There is no gameplay in a comic book, only story. So if Archie wants to make a compelling story, they should stear clear of Sega's crap stories.
Temper. Temper.
You do realize, that Sega is the reason the comic exists, right? If they wished, they could cease it's existance. The comic is an advertisement for them, it's thier character, they can do what they wish with it.
No matter how much you say or wish otherwise, that's the cold truth, and your little hissy fits are'nt doing anything but being rather irritating.
Quote:
why can't archie just be archie without being stereotyped into either category?
i love how no one answers this and continue to argue useless opinions.
America was founded on useless opinions. And powdered wigs. Also I think some people may have died. So it is in the Spirit of those Great Poufs that I launch this tirade:
We need more SEGA elements in Archie because kids still buy the games. Then they see the new characters and want them in comics. If we don't give kids what they want, terrorists win. And I for one will not sit back and be a party to the death of freedom.
GO (SONIC)TEAM USA!!!
Temper. Temper.
You do realize, that Sega is the reason the comic exists, right? If they wished, they could cease it's existance. The comic is an advertisement for them, it's thier character, they can do what they wish with it.
No matter how much you say or wish otherwise, that's the cold truth, and your little hissy fits are'nt doing anything but being rather irritating.
I'm not throwing a fit. I'm making a point. You have to admit, (and if you don't you're fooling yourself) the Sega of today is not the same Sega that first birthed Sonic and made this comic possible, or the Sega that launched the Dreamcast. They may be a more profitable business, but in the process they have milked Sonic dry, and degraded him from the status of gaming icon into the laughingstock of the industry. He's ranked lower than Bubsy the Bobcat on the mascot list now. As for the lauded Sonic Team...the only people over there who are still adequately doing their jobs are the CG department, and arguably, Jun and Johnny. The rest of the team should be given a complete overhaul. That is the cold truth. Yet in spite of all that, I still love Sonic...can you really blame me for wanting to engage in something Sonic-related that hasn't taken the same damaging missteps as the company that created him? Archie is lucky that SoA is such a lenient liscenser. They should take that opportunity and distance themselves from Sonic's complacent creators in Japan both narratively and with the characters, enemies and settings.
Quote:
You have to admit, (and if you don't you're fooling yourself) the Sega of today is not the same Sega that first birthed Sonic and made this comic possible, or the Sega that launched the Dreamcast.
Well, yeah. The Sega of today is a third-party games manufacturer, with a completely different business model and ideas of what to do.
Quote:
in the process they have milked Sonic dry
They milked him heavily back in the old days too though. Sonic Drift, Sonic Drift 2, Sonic Labyrinth, SOnic Spinball, Doctor Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, Tails' Sky Patrol... They've probably been bringing out, per year, less Sonic titles as a 3rd party then they did as console makers.
Quote:
He's ranked lower than Bubsy the Bobcat on the mascot list now.
He's had a globally successful cartoon in Sonic X, two comics in the States, brings out several profitable games a year that often get heavy industry-press attention, was used as an early Wii title (suggesting Nintendo viewed him as a big crowd-draw), and has millions of fans worldwide. He's doing pretty well.
Quote:
They should take that opportunity and distance themselves from Sonic's complacent creators in Japan both narratively and with the characters, enemies and settings.
If they want to create a comic heavily seperate to the Sega mythos, it'd be a lot cheaper to not make a Sonic comic at all and do an original talking-animals-fight-supervillains comic.
This topic is not about the extent to which this comic should draw influence from SatAM, the games, or any other universe. If you'd like to discuss that, then go ahead and make a topic about it. Frankly, I'm tired of it coming up every couple of weeks in topics where it doesn't belong, specifically with regard to Robotnik/Eggman but also with regard to characters, weapons, vehicles, locations and the like.
Anyhow.
Finally got this issue. I liked it quite a bit. My favorite moment was:
SALLY: We're not teasing!
SONIC: Well, I am. It's borderline treason, otherwise.
And my other favorite moment was the exchange between Sonic and Eggman on the first page of the back-up story.
I'm pretty excited for #175. It looks to be a major shakeup.
Well, yeah. The Sega of today is a third-party games manufacturer, with a completely different business model and ideas of what to do.
And that business model is to milk Sonic for every pretty little penny he's worth. What's worse with this model is that new Sonic titles don't get the full developmental attention they deserve.
They milked him heavily back in the old days too though. Sonic Drift, Sonic Drift 2, Sonic Labyrinth, SOnic Spinball, Doctor Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, Tails' Sky Patrol... They've probably been bringing out, per year, less Sonic titles as a 3rd party then they did as console makers.
The market is still oversaturated. And quantity isn't the issue. Again, the issue is effort. If we got three-to-five new Sonic games per year and they were all high quality, no one would complain. But we don't...we get games rushed through development to meet superficial consumer deadlines.
He's had a globally successful cartoon in Sonic X, two comics in the States, brings out several profitable games a year that often get heavy industry-press attention, was used as an early Wii title (suggesting Nintendo viewed him as a big crowd-draw), and has millions of fans worldwide. He's doing pretty well.
It's not commercial success I'm talking about...it's reputation. Mega Man still has a solid commercial standing as well, but his new releases are only embraced by fans, and met by everyone else with apathy. Sonic's getting to be the same way. But if you want to go the commercial route, fine. Sonic Riders was a cynical cash-in on mascot racers. Sonic 2006 wasn't the commercial hit that a big new console Sonic should be. Sonic Rivals flopped. Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis was a hackneyed port of a classic that show us all just how much Sega really "cares" about Sonic. And Secet Rings...well...it's the proverbial band-aid on a broken leg. It's true there's more audience affinity with the Nintendo croud (I hope I'm not the only one who sees the irony there), but if the status quo keeps up, the Nintendo kids will be all he has left.
If they want to create a comic heavily seperate to the Sega mythos, it'd be a lot cheaper to not make a Sonic comic at all and do an original talking-animals-fight-supervillains comic.
It's Archie we're talking about. They couldn't get a series like that off the ground without it being tied to a big named franchise like Sonic.
BTW...America wasn't founded by opinionated saints or visionaries...it was founded by rich white men who didn't want to pay taxes. My, how times have changed! I sometimes think that if the founding fathers had seen what their "democracy" would eventually become...suddenly King George wouldn't seem so bad.
Back to the comic...I suppose I was being kind by calling the comic "adequatte". If I really wanted to be a critic, I would say that I was more entertained by the Batman/Cal Ripkin Jr. corssover promotional ad for Big League Chew.
Switching however briefly back to 174...
Awesome issue. It's nice to see real humor and dialogue these days, not to mention a nice setup for OMF WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN??? in 175.
Methinks Commander Prower isn't a fan of the monarchy. XD
I've followed Dirk's suggestion and created a new topic for canon cross-influence discussion. Erinaceus, you might want to cut & paste your last post to there to avoid Wrath of Mod.
Am I the only one who was puzzled by the narration in the comic? I don't mind the "invisible narrator" but when it starts using first person pronouns ("I'm sure Espip would think so") and making judgments like "But it serves him right!" it really needs an identity, which we never got. The narration in Darkest Storm worked because it was established that "Anonymous" was doing the narration. Indeed, overall the narration seems rather cynical (particularly the "Isn't it touching!?" part), making me wonder if it's Eggman or an unknown third party doing the narration. Or, maybe I'm just reading too much into it. But first person and judgments seem out of place if you're not having a specific narrator doing it.
EDIT: Forgot to mention the Chao story. I liked it, it had some great jokes, but...it just didn't FIT with the issue. #174 has all these elements that are supposed to make you take Eggman as a serious, dangerous villain. But in See Ya' Later Chao? He seems to fit the Sonic X comic mold more. Again, it was funny, and I liked it, but I felt the timing was off. Having the Chao Garden in earlier issues would have been preferable, in my opinion.
It was Eggman.
