Kinda hard to see the signature, but it looks like Sanford Green is back. I can't say I was terribly fond of his covers (some of the facial details were... weird) but oh well.

Yeah, that's Sanford. The cover looks better than the other one's he's done. But Sonic and Espio just look weird.

And comparing them to Regina, it seems he's pulling another Ron Lim, where his anthros aren't very proportionate at all. =/

And who's signature is under Sandford? It kinda looks like Spaz's.

Man I love Sanford Greene's artwork, but not his Sonic stuff, which is a shame because it always seems that many artist who worked on other big name comic publishers (Marvel, DC, etc) have a hard time drawing Sonic.

Man I love Sanford Greene's artwork, but not his Sonic stuff, which is a shame because it always seems that many artist who worked on other big name comic publishers (Marvel, DC, etc) have a hard time drawing Sonic.

It's kinda funny too, seeing as it looks stylistically simple. The proportions and shapes really seem to throw a lot of artists off.

Espio's horn should be on his nose, shouldn't it?

Nope, it's in the right place, I can see how you can be confused though.

Can I ask why am I seeing solicits for what, May? Little far ahead here?

Yeah, these are solicts for March. After that comes April, then May.

Is it? Are we really up to Issue 209? God damn; time's flying by. Still... 3 months ahead is a little whoa. x_x

Cover makes it look like it's on his forehead

Maybe I'm just being nitpicky though

Yeah, these are solicts for March. After that comes April, then May.

OBJECTION!

These are March Solicits...

Making 215/SU 15 for April.

Kinda fast....s'all I'm saying...

Well, these aren't really solicits at any rate. At most they're just preview covers - there's no other info.

It looks like between both Sonic and Espio, there's only one hand with five fingers. Maybe this is a really, really early version... >_>

The title For Sonic Universe #15 is "No Love In A Conquering Storm , So it makes me wonder how Ian plans to do this. One of my guesses is it will be relevled to Sally, that Kahn tried to take NICOLE out permanently while she and Sonic were in the Digital World of Mobius. Or another guess, is Sonic may get Kahn to admit that he's just with Sally, so in the end, he can try and make her his Queen.

But those are just my guesses.

Yeah ... it wasn't about that at all.

Spoiler Timez: I don't see a SU #15 Topic specifically and I'm too lazy to make one. I'll just do Spoilers here for people who want them.

- BATTLE START. You know Ian-Style Melees by now.

- Khan seems confused. I really don't blame him.

- Then ... the battle ends. Fiona calls the hyenas off to talk.

- Fiona is looking for Lightning Lynx who ran back to Conquering Sto- I mean his Clan

- Drago (thank goodness) and Sleuth (who knows where) are also gone leaving what's left of the Fearsome Foursome.

- Sally and Sonic are skeptical. Fiona nearly sweet talks Tails into complying until SALLY PAWNCH. No. Seriously.

- Khan decides to be the sensible one and strike a deal with the other group. They head to the Lynx Clan together.

- Break-In Time. Lightning Lynx is there with Conquering Storm.

- Khan proposes a duel: Lightning Lynx against Sonic.

- You don't really have to ask who won this.

- Conquering Storm exiles Lightning Lynx from the Clan and he joins Fiona's troop. Guy looks ... sad.

- The Lynx Clan agrees to step down since Sonic's victorious.

- Sally and Tails talk about the Fiona-thing. Really sweet stuff, there.

- One more to go. Oh look. There's Espio; a member of the Last Clan.

I think it's kind of convenient that each Clan tries to contact them immediately after they finish dealing with the previous Clan (convenient plotting) but the punch in the gut totally saves this for me.

Tails is still a slave to his emotions, I see.

Keikaku doori...

- Drago (thank goodness) and Sleuth (who knows where) are also gone leaving what's left of the Fearsome Foursome.

Put on a bus? I think that would be good, because they are very uninteresting. If the Destructix really need 2 more members (with 5, plus Bean, Bark, Nack, and sometimes Scourge to fill the stock opponent roles, they probably don't), I'd rather get new characters instead.

Fiona so deserved that punch.

Disagreeing with you there, Vec. As with Scourge, Khan and Regina, why
add two more characters to an already stuffed cast when you can just
actually write some existing ones with a bit more personality?

For example, I don't find Drago uninteresting - given his history with Endgame, Hershey, what we've seen of
his manipulative personality etc., he's just another character I've
always seen as untapped.

Most of the lower villains suffer from the same problem as far as I'm
concerned: one or two defining personality traits that just get used as
cookie cutter or one joke things because the character is there purely
to show up, get beaten by Sonic and go away again. With more rounded writing,
I'd be intrigued with what could happen.

Whoa you got this in subscription? Crap, I want this issue!

"SALLY HATE PUNY FOX GIRL!"

Man, just...Sonic's expression...Priceless! XD

Serves her right. I've gotten to where I hate both Fiona and Snively.

They're both horrible Karma Houdinis.

Except it's in Snively's character to be that, hence the name. I honestly don't like the idea of Fiona coming back just to be part of the Destructix, her character could be 10x more interesting with just a little bit of effort. Of course, that speaks for half the characters in this comic.

Except it's in Snively's character to be that, hence the name.

Character or not, it's aggravating. I can't believe Eggman took him back.

I was hoping Snively might grow from this. Of course the Iron Dominion just fell so perhaps we'll see something down the line.

Except it's in Snively's character to be that, hence the name.

Character or not, it's aggravating. I can't believe Eggman took him back.

Well, Eggman only keeps taking him back because Snively is a loyal pawn in his games. Of course, it is rather dumb to keep bringing back the person who's tried to kill you numerous times, even being successful once.

Of course, it is rather dumb to keep bringing back the person who's
tried to kill you numerous times, even being successful once.

Though I do agree about what you say on Fiona, though since she just returned I'm willing to see where she goes on her return appearance. Of course if she's just "window dressing" that will cause me to "Scream Crackula Scream!"

Then maybe she only returned because Archie needed a new female leather clad furry to appear with her hands on her hips in every panel?

May she rest in peace...

Of course, it is rather dumb to keep bringing back the person who's
tried to kill you numerous times, even being successful once.

Though I do agree about what you say on Fiona, though since she just returned I'm willing to see where she goes on her return appearance. Of course if she's just "window dressing" that will cause me to "Scream Crackula Scream!"

Then maybe she only returned because Archie needed a new female leather clad furry to appear with her hands on her hips in every panel?

May she rest in peace...

Touche.  Still, Fiona will never be anywhere near the level of Lien-Da.

Of course, it is rather dumb to keep bringing back the person who's
tried to kill you numerous times, even being successful once.

Not necessarily. Not if the alternative is them taking their knowledge of you and using it elsewhere, either as a rival or aiding your enemies. As I see it, Eggman can't let go of Snively because he knows too much, and it'd be a waste of that inside knowledge and his talents to kill him.

Adding in additional thoughts now that I've read the issue: I know that I'm probably going to be called a prude because it is something that testosterone-fueled teenage males (and pre-teen males trying to act older) would say, but was I the only person made rather uncomfortable by our so-called heroes describing a character acting like, in her own words, "a thug" (let alone towards a female character - I try not to play the positive discrimination card, but I won't claim it didn't surprise me) as "hot" and "Yay!" and even "Do it again!" for being violent?

I'm actually surprised that that got passed by editorial. Yes, this comic has fight scenes when they're seen as necessary to complete an objective - but the characters who glorify them (eg. Sonic and his ego) are generally viewed negatively for doing it and even they have limits (look at how Sonic handles Lightning, for example).

I know that the "thug" remark is meant to balance it out and it's not meant as didactic - but as much as I can understand why Sally snapped and it's explicitly spelt out, I just don't like seeing that positive spin being put on it and left as the last word.

I don't know how many of the people here've seen that fake cover that's been going around of Tails drawing blood on Fiona, but again, I've been made deeply uneasy by seeing the number of people who said "Yay! She deserved it! Beat her some more!", as though the violence was condonable.

I didn't expect to see that exact attitude in a genuine script.

I'm also looking at Sally and Fiona's exchange whilst teaming up and wondering if or when Ian'll drop the other shoe that it was at least partially Sally's jealously never treating Fi like a FF in the first place that pushed her out of the group and gained them a new enemy, and Sally'll finally drop the facade that wanting to beat the whatsit out of Fiona is pure philanthropy on Sonic and Tails' behalf rather than a continuation of her own jealousy issues, but that was secondary to my reaction to the so-called heroes' triumph scene.

Sorry, Ian - but that just left me cold.

To be fair, when Sonic confronted her about the truth (Or something like it regarding her and Scourge, issue 194) with words, her response was to swing her fists at him. While words may (emphasis on may) have gotten to Fiona, she would have most likely blown it off and we'd be back at square one. While I'm not condoning violence, sometimes a good slap, punch or what not is needed to get someone's head clear. Sometimes, but it's best as a last resort and maybe...well yea.

I do remember you bringing up that point much earlier about Fiona never actually being accepted as a freedom fighter by the others and that may have helped drive her away. Having Sally almost/maybe admit that fact, along with the secondary truth that they never really trusted her...made me want to bash my head against a wall. They seemed to trust Snively more when he was with them than Fiona and Snively has tried to off them numerous times! But I digress...

I think what kind of bugged me is that Tails seemed a bit moved by Fiona's words, a least a little before Sally delivered her five finger response. My first thought was...Tails is smarter than this, right? This is too obvious, he should cut her down with a witty one liner and yet no! When will we get to the point where she can respond to him and he'll be indifferent to her?

That theory of mine was confirmed by Ian here.

Back to that scene, though: if the guys'd been seen actually getting corrected by Sally saying that no, she was being "a thug" and that was wrong, I might feel differently. But the last word was three so-called heroes bouncing around saying how kewl and attractive it was to "slug" someone and that they'd like to see it again (I hasten to add that I'd still be talking like this if was a male character being told how great they are for wantonly punching another male or even male on female or female on male violence, which Archie have previously even gone out of their way to call A Bad Thing outside of attack scenes of teams doing their jobs).

They were celebrating about it, even wanting more, and that was left unchallenged and unresolved. Sally's last line even plays the panel for laughs.

Scourge thinks that girls who beat people up're are "hot" - not Sonic or Tails, or even Khan. That's one justification why Scourge is from a dimension where people're born evil and Sonic's not, and why Fiona is supposed to not be on their side any more.

I know that Ian likes the big picture and personality-based tricks like the two being cracked mirrors of one another who could turn into the other by one decision... I hope that Sonic, Tails and Khan will get a not too much later on-panel comeuppance for sounding like a trio of drunken frat boys and, unlike Sally, failing to notice that they're being a bunch of thugs, because for the comic's target demographic, I'm very, very surprised that that triumphalist resolution and that dialogue was seen as acceptable.

I'm not trying to accuse Ian of misogyny or anything deliberate - he's a nice guy - but from a metafictional point of view, I really, really think that he dropped the ball on that one.

EDIT: For context's sake, I'm going to link to the DevArt with the "SHE DESERVES IT!"-esque comments that I was referencing earlier (which I've seen get more, identikit responses elsewhere), but I'd like this discussion to stay on topic, if it can.

Well remember what Scourge said that there wasn't many differences between him and Sonic? Maybe there is more to that than we think. I agree it might have been nice for Sally to correct them...they basically use force to solve everything! I mean the arc has done a nice little job of showing that they can accomplish some things by talking, a good chance, they'll be solving things with the fist/boot/tail/etc. I mean it's pretty obvious Sonic enjoys the fighting but when has Sally ever stepped in to cool it? I do think she realizes she's created a monster...just one she won't nip in the bud.

oh lahhh...my thoughts are all over the place, sorry...

I don't get the misogyny thing...I mean I just don't see it here.

Well then, it's obvious to everyone that Fiona is a manipulative dirtbag but just what does she deserve? As for the image you linked...well...I know she deserves something but that just seems...oh...

...I can't even bring myself to read the comments...

Well remember what Scourge said that there wasn't many differences between him and Sonic? Maybe there is more to that than we think.

*points at her previous posts* Agreed. If that was what Ian was going for, I just don't necessarily think that this was the best way to do it - and definitely not involving the other two, too.

Again, there's just something very disturbing to me about seeing that behaviour played for laughs and glorified with no overt conclusion that no, you shouldn't want to see someone get punched again and it's not hot, kewl, girl power or otherwise. There's a difference between a strong character and just a bully, but the guys interrupt Sally admonishing herself to tell her how wonderful it was, not the other way around. And she just gives up and lets them.

There's just something far too casual about the whole scene for me.

I don't get the misogyny thing...I mean I just don't see it here.

Me neither, which is why I was ruling that out. Trying to set a boundary for the discussion, if you will.

Well then, it's obvious to everyone that Fiona is a manipulative dirtbag
but just what does she deserve?

Maybe it's just me. I just don't see why violence had to be seen as a good thing to be repeated - when I see characters using actions and dialogue like that, I can't help but see them as bullies. I'm definitely hoping that someone calls Tails out on that "Next time you should slug her again!" and bangs all of their heads together - I know he's meant to be a kid and we've seen him lose his temper a few times, but it's always been corrected or resolved and I found that (and the lack of any reaction from even Sally, who's supposedly the one who knows she was wrong) extremely uncomfortable and creepy.

I think the problem was (obviously explained, but still wanted to throw in my two cents in) that Fiona is depicted as a (to use a lighter word) "mean girl" who treated Sonic & Tails like crap, especially Tails and with the betraying the FF's and joining Scourge it seems like she was getting what she deserved.

The problem is that the dialogue that was presented some poor choice of words. Though I wonder how the reaction would be if the lines weren't so "encouraging?"

I wonder how the reaction would be if Sally wasn't having nervous breakdown in two issues, that she was her normal tactical, calm headed leader of the Freedom Fighters leading up to her Captain Falcon impression (minus the world exploding)

I'm not trying to discredit you or anything Sam, just wondering if there is even a "right moment" for that scene?

I agree - you haven't seen me suggest there was a "right moment" for it, have you?

I only said that I might feel differently if it wasn't the blast word because someone'd be seen trying to control the frat boy tendencies, and that would at least try to balance it out more - I'm not saying that I wouldn't still feel uncomfortable, but maybe very slightly less so because someone calling

We know that Sally's unstable, even to the point of lashing out when she can't talk (*cough134cough*). Even Sally knows that Sally's unstable.  But again, every time Archie's portrayed something like that and left it unresolved or unchallenged outside of a melee, it's been a villain - Drago, Xan, Scourge - and not something that's been held up as a good thing by the heroes.

If Ian felt that that conclusion had to be used, it could've come with a much less awkward pay-off. 

Again, the concept of "she deserves it" is one that makes me feel awkward (can I ask in a purely sociological way and without meaning to offend you: did you feel that she deserved the way that Scourge treated her out of karma rather than a boyfriend wasn't abusive and disrespectful, or is it different when it's an abusive relationship rather than random violence? And I'm not saying that Fiona doesn't lash out herself, as we've seen...), and doubly so the idea of encouraging it as a good thing. Even Sally knows that there's a difference between a strong, attractive character and a thug - but that didn't feel like the final message.

Personally I think there will be some sort of fallout thanks to Sally being a bit unstable and more emotional as of late, rather than the cool and calm leader the FF demands so I don't think this is the final message on this little...event. It's more along the lines of being in the heat of the moment where many may lose it but in the quiet times after that is when we tend to deal with it. Perhaps it'll be one of the reasons why her and Ken break up (And they will) or...something. I know that's a lot of I thinks and a bunch of assumptions so take it with a grain of salt.

Again, the concept of "she deserves it" is one that makes me feel awkward (can I ask in a purely sociological way and without meaning to offend you: did you feel that she deserved the way that Scourge treated her out of karma rather than a boyfriend wasn't abusive and disrespectful, or is it different when it's an abusive relationship rather than random violence?

I'll take a stab at this.

I don't think anyone deserves to be abused, but she was still with the Freedom Fighters when Scourge first showed up again, wasn't she? One would think that she'd know what he was capable of by the time she decided to be his girlfriend, especially considering how he treated his other 'friends'.

As for the abuse, unless she contracted Stockholm syndrome, I don't understand why she didn't just dump him when he started getting abusive. Again, I don't believe anyone deserves abuse, but there comes a point when the abusee should realize that the abuser doesn't love them, otherwise they wouldn't be abusive. Perhaps there's some sort of psychological reason (like Stockholm) for staying with an abuser, but when it's been going on for an extended period of time, and the abusee isn't doing anything to stop it or get out of the relationship, it's rather difficult, for myself at least, to feel any sympathy.

If you're used to being abused or let down (and Fi's said she was from her childhood), it's easy to not feel as threatened by it as you possibly should, or feel that it's normal. It's also pretty easy to delude yourself that something like that doesn't matter if the other person is fulfilling some other need - and I've already had the discussion here with Ian about how Fi'll put up with anything if someone tells her that she's desirable with no questions asked (I'll dig the URL up later). Sometimes you need someone to come in from outside the scenario and point out what you're doing - which is what Sonic did when he made her burst into tears by pointing out just how attached she was to Scourge, whether she was trying to play it down or not.

I'm not saying that she's a sympathetic character at the point she gets smacked - just that I found the jubilant reaction by so-called heroic characters to her getting beaten, the idea that it was attractive and the wish to see it repeated unpalatable.

I'm not saying that she's a sympathetic character at the point she gets smacked - just that I found the jubilant reaction by so-called heroic characters to her getting beaten, the idea that it was attractive and the wish to see it repeated unpalatable.

Ah, I think I get it. It's the fact that they took pleasure in her comeuppance, not just mere satisfaction, that you have an issue with.

I haven't seen the issue in question yet (sans the earlier scan), but I wish to chime in on one point I've observed here in this thread so far.

I'm not saying that she's a sympathetic character at the point she gets smacked - just that I found the jubilant reaction by so-called heroic characters to her getting beaten, the idea that it was attractive and the wish to see it repeated unpalatable.

Emphasized, because whatever one might think, we're still talking about a group of teenagers. Granted, teenagers who've seen the ugly side of war and were forced to band together in order to survive, but teenagers none the less. Which brings us to this question: was it unpalatable because it was uncharacteristic, or unpalatable because it was characteristic?

I guess that one hinges on just how much credit one gives the author.

You got it, Kayla.

They're celebrating, the older guys're high-fiving whilst describing it as "hot" and even Tails thinks "Yeah! Next time you should slug her again!" whilst jumping up and down with a triumphant fist-pump.

They're overtly getting off on the violence towards another character - literally, in the case of the older two.

And to cap it off, Sally lets them and turns the whole thing into a joke about boys just being boys.

Like I said: for me, the attitudes in the guys' dialogue're ones I've always seen Archie attach to characters like Scourge or Drago before, and with good reason.

For me, there's nothing sexy or desirable about watching somebody get beaten up, whether you don't like them or not.

Apologies if I wasn't coming across clearly enough for you before.

EDIT: Psx, you've seen before how much I appreciate that Ian doesn't forget that these kids've been child soldiers since they were elementary school age and barely remember peace. You also know how much I feel that Ian writes rounded characters with emotions and traits that we can understand. I know I'm dipping into metafiction, but I just don't think that this level of desensitisation and verisimilitude is a line that should've been crossed in a comic about these characters and for this demographic.

I said in my first post that I was prepared for accusations of prudishness because teens and pre-teens can be that cruel and thoughtless, but the last word on the subject is Sonic, Khan and Tails condoning what even the character who did the deed thinks is thuggery, encouraging it and calling it sexy - I'm genuinely surprised that that was allowed through.

I completely agree, Sam.

Admittedly, I haven't been keeping up with the series like I used to, so I haven't actually read the issue in question.

Quite honestly, though, from the summaries I've read, I'm not sure I like where the comic's going.

I've uploaded the relevant page here.

good stuff

Perhaps he's going for a bit of deconstruction?

Ironically enough, a Fiona/Sally match-up or team-up and a moment like that for Sally were things that I'd expressed interest in seeing before as character development for both sides.

But I never anticipated a reaction like that from the characters witnessing it - at least, not those characters.

Again, I respect the cracked mirror analogy of the FFs and the Antis, but if that was what Ian's gone for there, I don't think that that this was a good way to show it for the reasons above.

I get Sam's point, about the heroes seemingly condoning violence not being right. Plus I don't like Sally being protrayed in a bad light.

I keep hearing people being a bit dissatisfied as to the direction the comic is going...obviously the condoning of violence seems to be a hot button but what are the other driving forces??

Me personally, I don't like that there may possibly be another Sonic/Sally/??? love triangle.

That's all I'll say on that subject.