Maybe, but that's just what I'm thinking since Feist said they would have to do challenges for them which makes me think of another way the comics can become closer to games.
Let me ask you this, Darkest Light: how can Enerjak come to be if someone doesn't go-or isn't already-insane? I mean, no member of the Brotherhood-including Knuckles-would be able to adopt the persona of their most hated enemy even if forced too; they're too naturally good to deliberately take on the role of someone as cruel and evil as Enerjak. Unless one of the good guys is driven insane, or some bad guy turns out to be as evil as Enerjak but without his powers, I just don't see how Enerjak can come to be.
As for Lien-Da, I doubt the revelation that she betrayed Dimitri would excite any remark; the guy's in the grave from the neck down (literally).
Feist's requirements for Sonic and Tails to get the other Chaos Emeralds will likely involve tests of some sort, but I personally don't see Feist actually brokering deals to give up his most prized possessions. If he does, he'll want something valuable in return. Personally, I could see him handing over a Chaos Emerald in exchange for Ixis Naugus so he can get revenge-and I can see the Freedom Fighters agreeing: one less prisoner to deal with, one more Chaos Emerald out of the grip of a potential enemy.
Let me ask you this, Darkest Light: how can Enerjak come to be if someone doesn't go-or isn't already-insane?
By gaining power somehow (I mean Mogul isin't insane, and he did it. He just smacked Dimitri up at the right moment. TWICE EVEN! 56 AND 114!) and then its as easy as remaking the costume. Then you can CALL yourself Enerjak, throw a few bombs, liven the place up! (Exactly what Ixis did when he came out, with never hitting Sonic directly with his powers 'cause they didn't work)
Its all in your implementation of the power you wield. You do NOT have to be insane to be Enerjak, IMO. You just need to be able to go to the lengths that he was able to go to.
And we saw Knuckles do that when Dimitri got him to listen (101 fiasco anyone?). Locke is already capable of going to great lengths, and even more so, you see how he is now-having the Legion protect the Emerald?!?! WHAT?
When the time calls for it, people(echidnas) will find it in themsleves to push themselves to their fullest, and adopt methods they may not be proud of in order to see their way though.
I never thought Enerjak insane, truthfully. Just a bit to power happy and overzealous, but not insane.
Not to mention, he had the power to back up his posturing.
Locke asked for the Dark Legion's assistance because he was desperate: Knuckles was on the surface and the Brotherhood had disappeared. He's looking for the Brotherhood now, and he's not liable to come back to Angel Island until he finds them. Finitevus doesn't strike me as the type to send someone off without making sure that they won't be back any time soon. Besides, why would Locke come back even if Finitevus didn't send him to where the Brotherhood is? As far as he knows, the island is in the capable care of Dr. Finitevus who, while he hasn't exactly made friends with Locke, has demonstrated an apparently honest desire to help Locke find the Brotherhood.
Enerjak has always struck me as insane, and Mogul is too; it's just that they're different kinds of insane. Enerjak was insane like the Joker: he enjoyed causing mayhem and pain simply to amuse himself. Mogul, on the other hand, simply thinks that he's above any call of morality and is infallible despite his multiple defeats. Both of them share one kind of insanity: megalomania-for those who don't know, the desire to take over the world. I mean, anyone who wants to rule the world and acts on that is crazy. Not only would ruling the world be stressful and tiresome, but actually taking over successfully is virtually impossible-just look at Robotnik's failed efforts.
Knuckles and Locke have both had reasons for taking drastic actions, but becoming Enerjak is beyond drastic. Assuming the identity of their family's oldest enemy isn't going to help them in any way: Locke doesn't care if the Legion remains at war so long as he can get the Brotherhood back to help him deal with repurcussions, which becoming Enerjak wouldn't do; Knuckles is fine to let the Legion tear itself apart, and I seriously doubt he'd be willing to even pretend to be the same being who brainwashed the Chaotix and tried to disassemble him into molecules.
Unless becoming Enerjak is his last, desperate attempt to locate the Brotherhood.
You know, back in like, Knuckles #16, all the Brotherhood members arrived from theur homes somewhere else on Mobius. It'd be hilarious if it turns out they've just gone back, and Locke didn't get the note.
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Enerjak was insane like the Joker: he enjoyed causing mayhem and pain simply to amuse himself.
...examples? 'Cause I can't really think of a particular instance where he did anything he did for the sake of fun. Over the top, sure, but that was usually just to prove "I'm inanely powerful, therefore my way is best and I'm in charge." If he were like the Joker he could have swapped Knuckles' head with that of a rubber chicken, not pulled his molecules apart.
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You know, back in like, Knuckles #16, all the Brotherhood members arrived from theur homes somewhere else on Mobius. It'd be hilarious if it turns out they've just gone back, and Locke didn't get the note.
Haha, nice.
I had a dream last night where Sally became Enerjak and punched Antoine's lights out.
Yeah. Thunderhawk drinkin smoothers whil weatchng villages burn
*Ehh Im too old for this. Let Locke run around and deal with it"
Sabre: "Shh! He's looking for us. Everyone turn down your Chaos Power levels!"
Spectre "but MINES OVER 9000! (Who didn't see that ccoming?)"
Sojourner: "Turn it down Spectre.I dun want him grumblng around here. We need vacations too."
Spectre: :
igs in his robe:: "HEHEHE look at this ::Pulls out Enerjak costume::
Sabre: "NO GIMME! I'LL GO TO THE SURFACE AND MESS AROUND!"
Everyone: DO IT DO IT DO IT!!
I can so see that happening XD.
Ok Back on topic..
Not only would ruling the world be stressful and tiresome, but actually taking over successfully is virtually impossible-just look at Robotnik's failed efforts<----
Yeah like how after Sonic was gone for a year, Robotnik took over another 48 percent of the world? He already have 51%
>> Umm. and then he slaughters Knothole. He could have won right then and there and we all know it o.o. There just would be no more comic.
I honestly believe that most of Eggman's bragging was just that brag; I didn't believe most of what he said and with his record in telling the truth it wouldn't be much of a stretch of the imagination for him to lie either.
Robotnik, like all major villains, is boastful; I think it more likely that he claims to have seized control of so much of Mobius to intimidate his enemies. Given that the Kingdom of Acorn is at war, they're effectively cut off from many other parts of the planet and have no way of knowing whether or not Robotnik is telling the truth. In all liklihood, he may not be.
Funny as it is to imagine the Brotherhood just sitting around and watching, that doesn't sound like them. Sure, there have been numerous times in which they just watched events on Mobius unfold, but they've always dispatched at least one member to deal with Dark Legion problems-except in extreme circumstances. And in regards to Locke, I don't think that he'd trust Finitevus at all if he came back without the Brotherhood after Finitevus supposedly gave him their coordinates: he'd probably try to kick the doctor's butt. Locke may be a jerk, but I doubt even he's desperate enough to take on the persona of Enerjak just to find a family who are liable to reject him for doing such a thing.
Addressing my previous comparison of Enerjak to the Joker, I was referring to their lack of care about what happens to others. Both of them have proven quite willing to bring about the deaths of others-getting your molecules ripped apart qualifies, so far as I know-and they have performed acts of wanton cruelty and brutality for their own amusement. If this is the same kind of Enerjak that Finitevus wants to bring back, I think it more likely that the new Enerjak isn't going to be willing to assume the role, and will probably get beaten up by the Destructix and forced into some version of the Chaos Syphon or something.
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Given that the Kingdom of Acorn is at war, they're effectively cut off from many other parts of the planet
You mean the heart of the Kingdom right, because if I'm not mistaken the Kingdom of Acorn, for all intends and purposes, is a one world government. I definitely know that Snottingham Forest and Downunda differs to the king and would probably take orders from him. Sorry I seemed a little nitpicky, but I had to do it.
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and they have performed acts of wanton cruelty and brutality for their own amusement.
No, I really wouldn't say Enerjak did stuff like that for the sake of amusement... he messed around with Knuckles trying to break his spirit (purely by showing the range of his abilities), and that's about it. He seemed pleased at the idea of getting revenge on those who "wronged" him, but he's not even sadistic in the way Lien-Da is.
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Funny as it is to imagine the Brotherhood just sitting around and watching, that doesn't sound like them.
Yeah, they only spend like 80% of their screen-time crammed in Haven watching people through cameras.
"Locke may be a jerk, but I doubt even he's desperate enough to take on the persona of Enerjak just to find a family who are liable to reject him for doing such a thing."
...Like Athair, who left for the betterment of the planet but turned out to be integral for Knuckles to learn about his soon to be awakened powers? Yeah, It usually seems that being kicked out the family yields better powers than being within it :o. Maybe that's just me.
I mean, even Tobor seeked out his beloved home, look what it got him. Got him merc'd right when he could known more of his family...*sniffle*...still makes me cry..;_;
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Addressing my previous comparison of Enerjak to the Joker, I was referring to their lack of care about what happens to others.
Joker = crazy
Enerjak = not crazy, just cares about taking over
Those two are absolutely nothing alike. If not caring about what happens to others is the criteria, then you can add most of the villains to being "like Joker" and possibly a few "heroes," like Shadow.
If the first Enerjak wasn't crazy, why did he go dictator after absorbing the Chaos Emeralds? Seriously, I don't think that even such an influx of power could have caused a brilliant and overall benevolent scientist to suddenly decide that he wants to rule the world. Sure, maybe he was angry at the Echidnas for rejecting his proposal, but is that really enough to send someone from disgruntled genius to would be ruler of the world? Megalomania qualifies as insanity, if you ask me; you'd have to be crazy to ACT on a desire to rule the world.
The Brotherhood have spent most of their time just watching, but they've shown the good tendency to take action when it involves some huge Dark Legion business. Given that the civil war is keeping the Legion from helping the other Echidnas, leaving them at the mercy of the Dingoes, I think it's safe to say that they would have acted by now if they were able or in a position to know about it. Forgive me if everyone thinks I can't take a joke, but I don't think that the Brotherhood are uncaring enough to just stand on the sidelines.
Athair may have been rejected, but he did it because the Ancient Walkers gave him a "divine calling"-he left to become their emmisary because he felt that was more important than being a Guardian. Locke, on the other hand, is trying to find the Brotherhood because he can't keep order on Angel Island without help and he wants his family back. Athair is actually somewhat a factor in this: Locke is dedicated to his Guardian duties with every fiber of his being, and he wouldn't betray that heritage by becoming the reincarnation of the very individual that the Brotherhood was formed to fight.
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why did he go dictator after absorbing the Chaos Emeralds?
Because he knew the double-crossers that were in control of Echidnaopolis and felt he could do better.
You may consider megalomania to be "crazy," but that is not anything related to what the Joker does. How many villains in the comic don't want to take over something or the entire world? Are they all "Joker-like?" That is the point I'm making. Your definition of "crazy" is much too broad and isn't acknowledging the wide spectrum that exists for things to be considered "crazy."
Okay, okay, I give: once again the infinitely more experienced posters on Mobius Forum have proved me wrong. Now that I think about it, I really didn't consider everything as thoroughly as I should have. My comparison between Enerjak and the Joker wasn't nearly as accurate as I originally thought, and may not even be accurate at all.
Megalomania is a form of insanity; I mean, sure a lot of people might like to be in charge of the world deep down, but you'd have to be crazy to try it, wouldn't you? History has demonstrated that no one who has tried for what Enerjak has in the past was entirely stable, and that indicates at least partial insanity to me. Besides, how else do you explain Dimitri's change of heart after he stops being Enerjak? It may not be that hard to start down the path of attempted world domination, but it's very hard to turn back. Could Dimitri really have thought that it just wasn't possible without his Enerjak powers? Or did the disappearance of Enerjak's persona allow Dimitri to reclaim a grip on his mind that he'd been bereft of for centuries?
Of course, we won't know until the comic comes out: guess we'll see then if the new Enerjak is a desperate Echidna...or a demented one.
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Besides, how else do you explain Dimitri's change of heart after he stops being Enerjak? It may not be that hard to start down the path of attempted world domination, but it's very hard to turn back. Could Dimitri really have thought that it just wasn't possible without his Enerjak powers? Or did the disappearance of Enerjak's persona allow Dimitri to reclaim a grip on his mind that he'd been bereft of for centuries?
You make it sound like he just went and gave up all his initial plans, which isn't the case. As soon as he was stabilized after having lost his powers, he had the descendant of the one who rejected his plan hundreds of years ago kidnapped and lobotomized and then attempted to take control via manipulating elections. He also had everyone forcefully removed from Angel Island so the Dark Legion could take it over. He may have mellowed out some, but he did not have an instant change of heart when he stopped being Enerjak. He still thought he should be in control and continued to act on it.
That could have been residual insanity: you don't spend a couple centuries out of your head and not stay a bit nuts for a while. Besides, if there's one thing I learned from watching X-Men 3: The Last Stand, it's that sane people don't think it's okay to dissolve other people into molecules. Of course, the Jean Grey/Phoenix situation could be what happened with Dimitri: perhaps absorbing all that energy caused him to develop a split personality, and the Enerjak side was eventually repressed by the other Dimitri.
Whether or not that's the case, I still think that the new Enerjak is going to be crazy, and that he'll have been forced into the role against his will. Say what you will about members of the Brotherhood or the Dark Legion: the Brotherhood have enough moral fiber to refuse taking such a course, and I doubt that anyone who saw what happened to the first Enerjak when he lost his powers would be willing to face the same fate someday.
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and the Enerjak side was eventually repressed by the other Dimitri.
You do realise that even before he became Enerjak he had the "my way is best" mentality, right? I think you're stretching this turned-over-a-new-leaf thing. Like I said, he's mellowed out some. That doesn't mean he was always this pure-of-heart guy driven insane by another persona and then just reverted. Enerjak wasn't even the total psycho you seem to think he was; he just went to extreme measures to do what he thought was needed. If he ever flipped out, it was because he lost his temper over the fact that anyone else could managed to overcome what should have been infinite power.
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the Brotherhood have enough moral fiber to refuse taking such a course
They also had the "moral fiber" to ambush a kid (who'd been bullying Knuckles) in his sleep, tie him up, and throw him from a great height (read: off the island itself) into the ocean below.
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They also had the "moral fiber" to ambush a kid (who'd been bullying Knuckles) in his sleep, tie him up, and throw him from a great height (read: off the island itself) into the ocean below.
Rather odd, considered they didn't have anything to do with him until he was sixteen. You'd think the loss of Aaron would've made the Brotherhood closer with their proteges, not drive them apart.
The whole deal with Monk was them protecting Knuckles when he couldn't protect himself; at that point, he was too young and inexperienced to handle Monk, and the Brotherhood were probably rather annoyed that anyone would dare to attack one of their members. Not to mention that Knuckles was left alone because he had to have the chance to develop his powers without interference. Besides, Monk wasn't exactly the greatest of guys himself, and he could have caused real trouble for Knuckles if they hadn't stopped him then. I agree that they're not very diplomatic, but the Dark Legion civil war/Dingo regime is a situation that they'd know that Knuckles and Locke can't handle themselves. If they knew, and could get involved, they would-but not by becoming Enerjak.
Truly, Dimitri may have always had that "my way is best" attitude, but I doubt that a guy who started out wanting what he felt was best for his people could have thought that justified taking people apart at the molecular level without losing a few marbles. Besides, originally he was just a super-powered Dimitri: it was only after years of imprisonment-years in which he had plenty of time to go insane-that he chose to take the name of a legendary evil for himself. He may not have been nuts in the beginning, but do you really think that even he could have spent 200+ years alone beneath a mountain without suffering a few psychological effects?
Knuckles was left alone because he had to have the chance to develop his powers without interference.
Developing his powers, yes. At the price of completely stunting his social skills. It's no wonder Knuckles was so quick to attack Sonic. He didn't know how to interact with other people.
Ah, but you did forget Kayla, that Knux knew Sal way before he ever met Sonic and was best friends with her. I think it was the same with the Chaotix and don't forget Catweazle either.
As I recall he attacked Sally at first glance, too.
Well, Knuckles was basically supposed to attack anyone who came onto the island without permission, wasn't he? The whole Sally thing was before that jerk Locke left him for Haven, and he probably only attacked her-if he did-because he thought it was part of his duty.
Anyway, let's get back on topic with #181-I don't mean to sound all high and mighty, but these threads get way off topic. Whatever may happen in #181, I'm just looking forward to finding out-especially to discover who the new Enerjak is.
Not to mention, that was before Father Dearest abandoned him.
The Brotherhood may be decent guardians, but they completely suck at being fathers. I'm surprised that Knuckles was so quick to forgive him. I'm not sure if I could do that if my father had abandoned me when I still a child.
Unfortunately, the Brotherhood do have the bad habit of caring more about their members carrying out their duties than growing up decently. After all, they've grown up as an order dedicated to protecting Angel Island and its inhabitants, and they've done a good job thus far of ignoring the personal needs of their members. Knuckles, as the most powerful Guardian in history thus far known, was probably left alone more than the others because he needed to remain uncorrupted. If he had learned that his mother was alive and that his people were cut off from him, he could have ended up becoming bitter and resentful, especially after learning that his father and mother had separated because she hadn't wanted to give him up but Locke had insisted.
Really, the whole Guardian tradition is meant to keep its members from falling victim to the same emotions that made Dimitri into Enerjak. In being forced to fend for themselves from an early age, young Guardians felt too much responsiblity to their duties to care about personal feelings. Unfortunately, unless the other Guardians acted like him, there has never been a more stubborn member than Knuckles. I really don't understand how he forgave his father; in fact, it's hardly surprising that they're at war again.
Back to #181; anyone have any theories about what may be going on with Scourge, Fiona, and the Destructix?
Oh, so many post, oh so little time! ![:]](https://www.mobiusforum.net/images/icons/smilies/biggrinshaded.gif){kind=icon}
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As I recall he attacked Sally at first glance, too.
Ah, true, true, Psx, but after that he did have several personal meetings with Sal so saying he never had any social interaction isn't completely correct.
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The whole Sally thing was before that jerk Locke left him for Haven
To be fair to Locke, Spectre, all guardians since Jordan, and the notable exception of Sabre, have gone through the same thing as Knux with the fire wall, etc. as shown with a flashback of Athair's childhood in the Lost Tribe arc.
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Knuckles, as the most powerful Guardian in history thus far known, was probably left alone more than the others because he needed to remain uncorrupted.
IIRC, actually Knux was introduced to Haven and the rest of the Brotherhood earlier than the others as when Knux fell into Haven in the Forbidden Zone arc some of the Guardians wanted to kick him out before he came to with Spectre, I think, saying fate was maybe telling them it was time to change traditions.
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the whole Guardian tradition is meant to keep its members from falling victim to the same emotions that made Dimitri into Enerjak.
The Guardian traditon was not done to keep the members from becoming another Enerjak, it was because Rembrandt and the early Brotherhood not wanting another tragedy as what happened when Aaron took himself and Menniker out. They figured leaving them by themselves and not letting them explore Mobius Proper would not lead to them dieing a premature death as Aaron did.
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especially after learning that his father and mother had separated because she hadn't wanted to give him up but Locke had insisted.
I was going to correct you but you are correct so I will just add that it was not only that but she didn't like Locke devoted more to his duties than her and that she couldn't bring herself to rollover to Guardian traditions as the other Brotherhood Spouses did.
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she didn't like Locke devoted more to his duties than her and that she couldn't bring herself to rollover to Guardian traditions as the other Brotherhood Spouses did.
And that right there, is probably when Knuckles got his stubborness from.
If stubbornness is an inherited trait, then Knux got it from both his parents; Locke is just as stubborn as Lara-Le.
Knuckles may have been introduced to Haven early, but of course the Brotherhood would probably have told him when to come and I think he probably just followed his father's path out of desperation or by accident. I certainly like the idea that Spectre thinks Knuckles' arrival in Haven means that the Brotherhood's traditions may need to be changed; whether or not they've prevented any more deaths like Aaron's, it'd really be better for the group if they took the time to remember that they're relatives in addition to being members of the same organization. Lara-Su in the alternate M25YL looks like a good indication that different training methods might work.
The Brotherhood could learn a few things from the Jedi: new Guardians may need to learn many of the same things as their predecessors, but from the looks of things each Guardian has been following the same lesson plan. However similar they might be, none of the Guardians are exactly the same person, and they should be teaching future generations in their own way. Besides, if you've read the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, repetitive use of the exact same training regimen led to the downfall of the Jedi because they hadn't changed. Maybe the reason the Ancient Walkers disrupted Knuckles' life was because they knew that a different kind of Guardian would be needed for whatever future danger he'll have to defeat-not just one who's more powerful or better trained, but one who's had experiences and gone through things that his ancestors haven't.
Speaking of the Brotherhood, anyone have theories as to what happened to them? I'm thinking that Dr. Finitevus abducted them after they saved the Master Emerald and carted them away so they wouldn't interfere with his plans.
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Speaking of the Brotherhood, anyone have theories as to what happened to them?
In canon, I have no clue.
Out of canon, they fell into a plot hole.
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As I recall he attacked Sally at first glance, too.
No, he didn't. Sally threatened to attack him first. He was hiding in the bushes when Sally & Max were talking (but not that well). When Max left Sally alone, she grabbed a stick and basically demanded that whoever was hiding show themself.
Of course, later on when they were having their conversation about who will have a harder job (Queen vs. Guardian duties fight ;p), Knux did attack after Sally slightly shoved him.
Well then, maybe she learned a lesson in not to push people, especially when that someone could easily punch your face off.XD
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If stubbornness is an inherited trait, then Knux got it from both his parents; Locke is just as stubborn as Lara-Le.
Ah, all the Guardians seem like their at least a tad bit stubborn some more than others I suppose!
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whether or not they've prevented any more deaths like Aaron's, it'd really be better for the group if they took the time to remember that they're relatives in addition to being members of the same organization.
But, they did do it because their direct descendants of each other; if you read KTE #25, you'd realize that the early brotherhood was so disdraught at the lost of Aaron that they put the thing in place. If anything, the Brotherhood was being too overprotective with their offspring whether than trying to save the Guardian Lineage, which being too overprotective isn't good for people either.
Going on with this thought, this is why the Brotherhood threw Monk off AI: they were protecting one of their own as any father, grandfather, and great-grandfathers would do.
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Maybe the reason the Ancient Walkers disrupted Knuckles' life was because they knew that a different kind of Guardian would be needed for whatever future danger he'll have to defeat-not just one who's more powerful or better trained, but one who's had experiences and gone through things that his ancestors haven't.
Now that I wouldn't be suprised of nor would deny; Athair probably had a hand in the decision as well considering how tight he was with the AW which Athair has always seemed as one of the most wise and level-headed members of the Brotherhood anyway, whether they like it or not.
o.o
Wait. I'm guessing Sojourner was taught his Brotherhood ways by Athair right, and then he was like "I'm going back to grandma?" Not clear on that...
No, Athair is Sojourner's grandchild; Athair's son was Sabre and I don't think Athair handled Sabre's Guardian training since he was mitre at the time. Actually, I believe Athair said Archy trained Sabre.
A bit of offtopicness, how is "mitre" pronounced? I could never figure it out.
"Might-er"
At least, from what I know.
I thought that was the pronunciation, but I wasn't sure. Much obliged, SS.
o.O Wait what? Athair is Sojourner's Grandkid?..Sojourner-Janelle-Athair-Sabre-Locke-Kn--Yeah that sounds right. Ok I meant Sabre instead of Sojourner.
Knuckles + Rouge fans are gonna turn purple if Julie manages to wake up Knuckles if he is the new Enerjak. And if she fails, they'll say that Rouge could have done it, or depending on the order it happens, "she couldn't have woken him up without Rouge" or "she failed to wake him up, but Rouge didn't, nay nay!"
I retract what I said before, if Julie manages to wake up Knuckles, they'll say "Rouge could have done it a lot easier."
And I will laugh loud and long. Archie =/= games, and people would be wise to remember that.
Hm... are we talking about relationships? Because it sounds like we're talking about relationships.
Relationship talk? In my Sonic forum? It's more likely than you think!
NOT HERE IT AIN'T
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NOTICE: Absolutely no topics concerning the love relationships among characters are allowed within this forum. Any such topic created will be locked, and continued defiance will result in warnings/bannings.
--True Red
So speaketh thy lord and mistress.
Thank you, Psx.
Rope it in, Alex.
Sorry.
XD Thy lord and mistress XD. That cracks me up every day of the year.
