Sonic has experience on his side yes, Tails has knowledge and cunning, I think its acually gonna be a rather equal fight. Not to mention the one thing Tails has the Sonic doesn't at the moment: Determination. That may acually be what would turn the fight in his favor, cause right now Tails really doesnt like Sonic, whereas Sonic probly wasnt expecting this, and probly doesnt really want to hurt his friend deep down, more of a WTF on Sonics side.

That may be true. But at the same time; there might be some trick moves that Tails has on his side. That Sonic doesn't even know about, because remember Sonic was off on some Space Trek for a whole year. So I think the Sonic vs Tails fight will end with a draw, just like all of the Sonic vs Knuckles fights, as well as; all of the Sonic vs Shadow fights also ending in draw's too.

This topic would probably be better as an addition to the #178 thread than it's own, but it's certainly interesting. Tails and Sonic are likely to end up fighting to a draw, either because someone or something is going to intervene or their differing abilities will end up balancing each other.

Sonic may have more skill, but Tails is smarter; Sonic has speed, but Tails can fly. Both of them are probably evenly matched in anger and determination, though Sonic probably has a bit of a weakness in ego. Years of having to save Tails time and again aren't likely to have given him a high opinion of Tails' abilities, not to mention that he might underestimate Tails because he's younger. However, if he is foolish enough to think that, I'll bet he's in for a shock.

So how many are rooting for Tails in this scuffle? I know I am. If nothing else, I hope this knocks Sonic down a few rungs.

SU, I'm on Tails' side too. While him totally beating Sonic wouldn't earn my approval-it would make him look more capable than Knuckles, which I don't like anyone doing (screw the Prophecy of the Ancient Walkers, they're supposed to be gods but they're still dead)-it would be nice to see him knock some sense into Sonic's head. A few good right hooks might help restore Sonic's image as a selfless hero-if somewhat obsessed with himself-rather than the selfish and inconsiderate jerkwad he seems to have become since the whole "Home" storyline.

Anyway, going back to that Ancient Walkers deal, I suppose that Tails beating Sonic would be further evidence that it really is true and not just some delusion from the minds of three incredibly senile Tiki heads.

Well we know for a fact that at least five of the bad guys are even rooting for Tails to best Sonic in this fight.

Nack: Good one, kid. Do it AGAIN!

I hope Sonic knocks some sense into that two tailed freak. He's always crying about something, and is'nt as mature as the readership makes him out to be.

I'm not cheering for either side! (Much like Sonic can't bring himself to cheer for the Royalty or the Radicals)

I'm just hoping Sonic and Tails comes to their senses before they smash each other up enough that they'll be in no shape to deal with the bad guys when Tails' short circuiting Nicole causes the bad guys' cages to get unlocked (I see it as very possible).

Definitely rooting for Tails.

Sonic's had this coming for a while - seeing the hedgehog win after his behaviour recently just wouldn't morally work for me.

Of course, I'd rather see understanding and compromise than anything as cheap as a "victory" - but if that's not happening, then Tails all the way.

Could you expand on those thoughts of yours, please, Toby?

While Sonic deserves to be beaten by Tails, I don't think he really stands a chance. I mean, Sonic has been through some really tough stuff in his day, and I think he's stronger, quicker, and much more of a fighter than Tails. Tails is young, inexperienced, not as fast, and confused. I don't think Tails really knows what's going on, other than that he's helping his dad. He's still a child.

Now, what would be sweet is if they had Super Sonic vs. Hyper Tails (or whatever his "upgrade" mode is, I can't remember).

You mean Super Sonic vs Turbo Tails! I too would really like to see that. I mean if they can give us Super Sonic vs Hyper Knuckles. Why can't they also give us Super Sonic vs Turbo Tails as well as Super Sonic vs Super Shadow?

In fact why don't they just give us the dream match up fight, which would be.

Super Sonic vs Hyper Knuckles vs Super Shadow vs Turbo Tails

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I hope Sonic knocks some sense into that two tailed freak.

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I'm hoping for Sonic to respond to all of Tails' angst with "oh shut up you tart!". Possibly calls him a plonker too.

Interesting analogy, Charles. Given the attitudes and histories of the two characters, it mostly works, too! 😉

Actually, what Charles said DOES make the most sense.

Just the same I hope that arrogant pincushion gets a few welts on that face he's so proud of.

God, listen to me, I sound like a teenager. Ah well, I'm allowed, Sonic's needed this since I stopped reading the comic... what, ten years ago?

I ordered this one. Hearty cheer for Ian and his team, never thought I'd buy a sonic comic again.

~Tobe

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Actually, what Charles said DOES make the most sense.

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I was actually referring to the analogy that Charles was making between Sonic and Tails and a couple of characters from a BBC sitcom that hardly anyone in the US has heard of. 🙂

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Interesting analogy, Charles.

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And hey, Sonic's uncle actually has told stories about During The War if I remember right...

Again, you're right.

Oh, well I was speaking about Sonic not taking him seriously and doing his usually "whatever, kid." thing.

But I just received the comic and theres no way that could be the case. *giddy*

Kick his spikey blue butt, foxboy!

~Tobe

The look on Sonic's face says that he is NOW being serious about this fight. And ultimately, Sonic is thinking with a clearer head than Tails right now. But like I said, I'm hoping this fight ends in a 'no contest.'

Personally, I think that the Sonic vs. Tails fight is likely to end in a draw. Tails may not be as experienced as Sonic, but neither of them is really thinking clearly at the moment: Tails has lost control of all the pent up contempt he has for Sonic, while Sonic's annoyance at Tails disagreeing with him and acting all mopey over Fiona has undoubtedly burst forth as well. Sonic has speed, but Tails can fly. Of course, I'd like to think that they'll both just beat on each other until they both collapse, exchanging insults all along the way, and by the time they're done they'll be on the ground laughing, having finally made amends. Of course, neither of them are going to find the laughter physically enjoyable if that's the case.

I find it funny that the villains are rooting for Tails-though I doubt Mogul is-but I suppose that most of them hate Sonic more than they hate Tails. Besides, they're stuck in prison mostly because of Sonic's actions, so why shouldn't they root against him? The situation kind of reminds me of a Danny Phantom episode-I can't remember the name-when Danny and another ghost are in an arena of some time testing Danny's new ice powers. When Danny sees a bunch of spectators, he wonders what they're doing. His opponent, Frostbite, says that they've come to see Danny in action, but Danny realizes the truth quickly enough:

Danny: They're here to see me get humiliated, aren't they?

Frostbite: Indeed. My people live in a frozen wasteland; they take their entertainment where they can get it.

Hence, Mogul and co. are probably enjoying the spectacle of two of their greatest enemies currently locked in a major struggle. Of course, I seriously doubt that Tails' shutdown of NICOLE will let them out; he's a genius, and he would have been careful about that sort of thing. Even if he was upset about his father being in jail, he didn't go mental until Sonic showed up to try and stop them breaking him out. But back on the subject of the other prisoners, I'm pretty sure they'll just stay put, especially since they'll have only been in there for three issues if they do get released.

And -again- I'm reminded how, from where I stand, Amy and Tails are alike in this comic. Both are in love with someone who is NOT going to return their feelings in this incarnation. Both are fixated on belonging to the world of adults without even trying to enjoy their younger years while they have them.
And now both have done something fundamentally stupid! (Amy using Sonic's Billionth ring to make herself older, and Tails letting out his dad which is only going to stir the hornet's nest!) And both of course are so fixated on that person they're hopelessly in love with they don't realize how alike the two of them are.

Ironically, if it was Amy who broke into the middle of this fight, pity Tails, as long as Amy has a weapon in her hands, she could win a land war in Asia.

As long as there weren't any Sicilians involved, I presume?

*finds hat and tips it to Alex for the reference*

I disagree on Tails being impatient to grow up. He could've made the same choice as Amy, but he didn't - he never bickered about being made to go to school, even though he was a genius.

Yes, he views maturity as something to aspire to - but if h was so keen on being an adult, I think he'd have dropped his hero worship of Sonic before now.

Now that he's got his parents back, he just seems to've transferred that idealism, passion and loyalty that he had for Sonic over to them, and seen Sonic's flaws morereadily.

and can't see his dad's flaws.

Precisely - although I know that we haven't seen the Prowers bonding off-panel or how much Tails knew about this in advance, but that "No matter what" comment as he was getting his hair ruffled didn't make Tails look in a rush to go up to me.

Having had a substitute family for his entire life, he now has a chance at the childhood he never got. Considering that he's not a normal kid, devolving into a much younger mindset could be a problem - particularly since his adolescent hormones've obviously kicked in.

When I stop and think about it. It really does feel like Scourge and Anti-Tails fighting, not the heroes we know.

What's wrong with that? Show me two people who are best friends that have never had a single argument throughout their entire relationship.

I really hope that this Tails vs. Sonic conflict will last a real long time. Ever since I've gotten into W40K over 4 years ago, I fanticised what will happen when Tails finaly realises that there is no other way to establish an influential rank in the party.
For example: When a powerful character comes into play it is almost always his/her subordinance who supports the image. Like Sonic, whose arrogance cant get any denser, cant perform a successful mission without the planning from his advisors, but all deeds done by the party seems to be credited only to sonic. All others are barely footnotes.

Something so dramatic and so disasterous must take place to break the seemingly endless loop of heroism. An act of betrayal must take place to establish a new faction that will put an end the predictable garbage that is this comic.

For this comic has gave me faith that this mess still has a hope. For that, I am greatful!

Alex, I also applaud your Princess Bride reference. Let's just hope Amy doesn't decide to go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line-I doubt that girl has an immunity to iocane powder.

I don't see Tails' devotion to his parents as him regressing to a younger mindset; he probably just has a subconscious fear that he might lose them again, and so wants to do everything he can to make sure they stay with him, even if that means breaking the law. The similarities between Tails and Amy are quite obvious, although I think there's one big difference: Tails was truly in love with Fiona because of who she was, while Amy just has an unnaturally long crush on Sonic. Hopefully, she'll grow out of that, just like Sonic and Tails will resolve their feud.

Really, I think that the fight should be a culmination to the bad track record Sonic and Tails have had for a while. It's been building up to this, so it would be rather stupid if they basically tried to kill each other and didn't settle anything. Besides, the conflict obviously needs to end before #180, or else how can the Kingdom of Acorn unite against Enerjak? If the commoners are divided in their opinion of the House of Acorn's approach to fighting Robotnik, it'll be practically impossible for them to agree to fight with Robotnik. Besides, unless #181's cover is totally misleading, Sonic and Tails are together again and getting ready to throw down with Enerjak.

SU has a definite point; all friends get into a bit of a spat at some point. It's just that Sonic and Tails have let theirs stir in its own juices for so long that it's become not so much a disagreement as a tenuous truce that has now erupted into conflict. While I agree with CommisarTails that the feud makes a nice break from the predictable storylines the comics have devolved into lately, I think that they should try a different approach then splitting Sonic and Tails up as a team, possibly dividing the Freedom Fighters along with them.

Hopefully, the upcoming issues will show us Archie handiwork that breaks off from the mediocre tradition the comics have been maintaining for some time.

I like that idea of two groups of F.F.

Team A; would have Sonic, Sally, Antoine & Bunnie!

and

Team B; would have Tails, Amy, Rotor & Dulcy!

As far as Tails' mindset goes, I think that Spectre has a point about a fear of losing his parents. I'm reminded of the conversation that Tails was having with Rotor in 175, about feeling as though losing Fiona and Tommy was down to him failing to protect them.

Rotor was awesome in 175. Thanks for mentioning Tails view on failing to protect others, I just now noticed he promised to protect his parents in this issue so I'm guessing it's still a very sore point for him.

I really like the way Ian is handling this arc so far. I was worried I would either be annoyed at Elias or Amadeus but I find them both making good points. So far Amadeus seems to genuinely be interested in reforming the goverment and both he and Rosemary worry the demonstrations went a tad too far. Elias seems open to change but lacks the nerve to implement it.
I think Tails has the right idea in supporting his parents but he did go too far. Breaking people out of jail is unlawful, tho he behaved wrongly for the right reasons. And as Spectre and others have pointed out, he is young and right now their safety means everything to him. I do wish Sonic would use a little more sensitivity, speaking first and thinking later is a weakness of him but I have seen him manage tact in the past. It's hard to mantain a cool head when people are pounding on you, but there were oppurtunities to smooth things over BEFORE fists started flying.

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Thanks for mentioning Tails view on failing to protect others, I just now noticed he promised to protect his parents in this issue so I'm guessing it's still a very sore point for him.

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Again, I'm still working from the preview pages at BKP. I'll feel a bit more comfortable commenting when I have the full issue.

With all due respect, rattrap, the Freedom Fighters would not split; if they did, they'd cease to be the Freedom Fighters. Besides, if anything the other Freedom Fighters would want to stay out of this, because supporting either side would mean betraying at least one of their friends and the causes they've fought for for so long. Anyway, Dulcy isn't really with the main Freedom Fighter crew anymore, as far as I've seen, unless she's been around and I just haven't seen scans of her in the issues.

Tails wants very much to protect others, which may be yet another beef he has with Sonic. Sonic has demonstrated little regard for other people's feelings or opinions, and Tails has sadly been the victim of much of his unthinking rudeness. No doubt Tails seeks to differentiate himself from Sonic, and hopes that by taking his parents' views into consideration, whatever he may feel personally about the House of Acorn's rule, that he'll prove himself a better person than Sonic is. Given his current loathing of his former hero, I could see him wanting to do that.

Question: Hershey, and Geoffery, and the OTHER 50% of the city. What do you think they're going to do in the middle of this?

You know, just because Amadeus had 50% attend the protest with him doesn't mean that the other half of the population is totally against reform. A lot of them just may be undecided or even not understand the concept.

We've gone over this part before.
Like I said, part of the good general's 50% might just like him and might not have a full idea of his idea, or just looking for a cause.

And the facts as they stand now remain the good general doesn't have a majority support, which is what a vote is supposed to be based on.

And I seriously doubt that half of the other 50% or secretly loyal to the good general's cause.

Eggman is going to blast any mobian who sets far enough away from that city into ashes (opposed to being robotocized like in the good old days where you could count on that happening), thus, loyalists will have no where to go.

It'll be like having two opposing species of fish in a goldfish bowl. They're going to turn on each other weather the good general succeeds or not. Because what he's failing to realize.
While he might have the right idea of their culture needing to evolve, he thinks that 50% must mean the other 50% must agree with him too.

All the good general seemed to do is to get people angry, which is stupidly easy to do.

And here's the ULTIMATE QUESTION:

If the King steps down (which will KILL Max): Max's influence ASIDE, (repeat, aside): what choice, will the person or persons now in charge make, that the King wouldn't have?

Changing a system isn't just about changing whose in charge.
If it doesn't change how the people live their lives day after day, it's meaningless.

What will this new group do, that the King wouldn't have?

You make a valid argument, Alex. Right now, I think that Amadeus is just inflamed with passionate ideas of reform, and he's determined to get a new system in power to replace the royal family. Whether or not he has a better idea of how to fight Robotnik remains to be seen, though it seems unlikely that he would need to set a new ruling body in power in order to use it-unless he wants to get permission for the army of Acorn to start using artillery.

The taboo on guns that Acorn Kingdom has has evolved from being just a law to being cultural engrained. Changing the ruling body won't change how people feel about them.
Yes, it's as outdated a fear as the echidna's outdated fear of new technologies, but changing the government won't remove that irrational fear.

I concure; that was just the first thing that popped into my head as to what Amadeus would want to do in the war that he can't do now.

Artillery would've been useful during Robotnik's original coup.

Yeah, but since Max was in charge back then it wouldn't have happened in a million years. Plus, Amadeus had been Roboticized and abducted by aliens and taken across the galaxy at the time, so there was no way he could have tried to get approval. Besides, it's unlikely that that's why he's trying to get a new leader in power over the kingdom; I just thought of that as one reason why someone in the military would want the House of Acorn out of power, so that the anti-artillery decree would be repealed and they could use them against Robotnik. Of course, Amadeus could be just as supportive of that law as Max or anyone else.

Ergo, all the talk about artillery is just speculation-and it really has nothing to do with Tails.

I'd call it stretching an example, myself. Amadeus has never mentioned the military - and the kingdom's problems with Max and Elias as rulers've gone too far back and through too many fields.

This has been coming for a while.

It's only an example, Samanfur, and I have stated that it's not really valid anyway. Amadeus is probably just as anti-gun as anyone in the Kingdom. It just struck me as one reason why he might want the House of Acorn ousted; they're the ones responsible for that law, and a new government might lead to some old laws being repealed.

About the anti-gun thing, I am thinking that maybe because their world has gotten more dangerous at least some have come to see guns as a nesscessary evil. Amadeus did threaten Robotnik with a gun(during "Eve of Destruction"), refering to it as an "overlander weapon," showing he did have some reluctance to using a gun. Also, Sally fired a gun during "Heart Held Hostage," just to give some examples.

Well, I'm just barely starting to read through the comics since I got scans of everything off [EDIT by Sam: Spectre, we've already had this conversation], so I haven't really seen those. As I said before, the theory was just something I threw out there, and it's really not plausible; I doubt that guns and other artillery would help much anyway-unless the Kingdom found the Brotherhood and took them up on their old offer.

Not sure if anyone's noticed, but this thread has totally gotten away from the subject: Tails.

Considering it's against the rules here and, y'know, illegal, maybe you shouldn't be throwing out the fact that you're DLing full issue scans from a particular website.

On the topic of anti-gun... none of the FF or other people of the kingdom have really been shown to be anti-gun. It's more been stated as a piece of interesting history but never really displayed in the comic itself. Despite telling Fiona not to use one, Rotor's used a monstrous gun in the past, Bunnie has her arm cannon (and, while they were never used, was shown with a couple of six-shooters several times) and I want to say that the Acorn guards had been shown carrying some weapons in the past. Even as a matter of recton, there's not really been anything to make this a huge deciding factor for the FF.

Thank you, CCL. Second warning, Spectre.

I missed the link pre-edit.

If someone would be so kind as to enlighten me to the source via email, or to send it to talkback@archie.com, I'd appreciate it.

(It's not for DLing, obviously, I'm looking to submit the sites to Archie's legal dept.)

Sick 'em, Ian!

~Toby