Fleetway had Metal Knuckles, but neither had Tails Doll.

C'mon, Metal Sonic isn't the only doppelganger here.

This Fight Seems Kind oF Bias, Although STC may have had more Action & Sci-fi then STH, it had Lots of BAD STORYTELLING & Quite Frankly alot of ODD Realistic Style Viillians.

I do Give STC Points for Characters Like Evil Super Sonic & Dr. Zachery though.

but neither is truly better its all openion!

Neither!

Because they both have their merits & their faults. They both have stories that caters towards a different group of readers who either prefer the cartoon or something that is similar to the video game. To choose which is better to me is redundant because in the end they both cater a large group of fans.

And of course, only one of them is still alive.

Fleetway had Metal Knuckles, but neither had Tails Doll.

C'mon, Metal Sonic isn't the only doppelganger here.

Actually, Archie did have Metal Knuckles too, although it was technically Knuckles robotisized as Mecha Knuckles. But still a robot Knuckles made one or two appearances. Will you subceed or are you adamant that its not the same thing, is so I'll add your point to the score board.

Legionfan44 wrote:

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This Fight Seems Kind oF Bias (...) neither is truly better its all openion!

gammarallyson wrote:

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Neither!
Because they both have their merits & their faults. They both have stories that caters towards a different group of readers who either prefer the cartoon or something that is similar to the video game. To choose which is better to me is redundant because in the end they both cater a large group of fans.

Yes, some arguements can be biased. "Archie had better writing" for example would be bias, but its about how you phrase it. That arguement could become something like "Archie had the awesome Ken Penders as writer", and thats a valid point, and would score one for Archie.
Someone in disagreeance would then have to make their own point, like "Although Penders over indulged in emotional drama in an action/adventure comic". I'd score that to Fleetway. Then some you could just rebut that with a positive point about the emotional drama side.
The point of this fight is really just a game, and a way of getting some banter flying about. Be crazy with it.
So saying "neither" is not a valid arguement because there's never gonna be a winner anyway, so just treat it as a bit of fun.

Fleetway had Metal Knuckles, but neither had Tails Doll.

C'mon, Metal Sonic isn't the only doppelganger here.

Actually, Archie did have Metal Knuckles too, although it was technically Knuckles robotisized as Mecha Knuckles. But still a robot Knuckles made one or two appearances. Will you subceed or are you adamant that its not the same thing, is so I'll add your point to the score board.

Nope, there's a difference. Just like there's a difference between Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic. They're not the same individual.

Nope, neither is a valid answer not because "OMG I DUN WANNA PICK WHAAAAA!!!;__;", but because I believe that they both have their faults, but also have their aspects that are well done.

Sorry, but that's how I fell.

Nope, there's a difference. Just like there's a difference between Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic. They're not the same individual.

Okie-dokie. Fair enough. Up it goes!

Okay, Gamma, you don't have to play if you don't want to.

A long time ago, a member of this forum said: STC's best is better than Archie's best, but STC's worst is worse than Archie's worse.

I've have heard good things about the latest lot of Archie's stuff for a while now though and I do like how evil Finitevus looks compared to Zachary. I mean, he actually looks like he will get stuff done.

Good point on the Zachary/Finitevus thing, John. Up it goes!

Yeah this was discussed in The Special Zone forum a while ago.

My opinion would be as follows (for ease of reference, important points that can be added to the scoreboard will be outlined in itallics):

Archie has way too many characters. So many that whenever an old one pops up, pages and pages have to be devoted to 'catch up' flashbacks to tell us what they've been doing while they're away. Also, it makes it almost impossible to keep track of who everyone is and their histories. What characters they do have, however, are much more clearly defined and unique than Fleetway's two-dimentional figures...pretty much all Fleetway's heroes were exactly the same as each other - slightly angst filled antisociallites with emotional problems, but a brave and noble heart that just about allowed them to do the right thing when needed.

The older Archie editions (not sure about the newer ones, not read them) lacked one of the best elements of comics that Fleetway got spot on - the cliffhanger ending. So many Archie stories are started and wrapped up in a single issue, which is all very well, but it doesn't give you the breathtaking excitement and anticipation of the next spectacular issue that Fleetway consistantly provided.

Fleetway was also far better in it's game-comic tie-ins...this they got absolutely perfectly. Anyone else remember the EPIC Sonic and Knux storyline with the Death Egg and Floating Island blasting chunks out of each other in the sky, with Sonic freefalling among an army of Eggrobos between them? That story arc was quite simply stunning, and I'll remember it till the day I die! That being said, Fleetway failed completely in the filler story department, their fillers were just absurd and irritating, rarely entertaining at all (see the 'Raining Banannas' storyline for example).

When I first picked up a copy of Archie, I was completely blown away by the concept of Roboticization. In Fleetway, Robotnik was little more than an evil power-mad dictator trying to take over the world with robots, which was okay, but a bit cliche and boring at times. Roboticization, though, added a whole new moral and ethical element to the Doc's campaigns, and made him appear much more sinnister and chilling. And in addition to that, it was a lot closer to the ideas of the game with animals being turned into robots, rather than Fleetway's 'purely robotic badniks with the occasional Cybernik once in a while'. Win-win all round.

So yes, each series had it's good and bad points, and as mentioned above, I'd agree that while Archie's worst is nowhere near as bad as some of the stuff Fleetway put out, Archie's best cannot compare to the spectacular and stunning awesomness of Fleetway's best. One ranged from 'a bit rubbish' to 'pretty good', the other from 'utterly terrible' to 'mind-blowingly amazing'. Apples and oranges I guess.

Overall, though, if I was forced to make a choice...I think I'd have to say Fleetway just about pipped Archie to the post as being the best. A close call, but that'd be my vote.

Oh, and one last thing before I sign off:

Troopers pwn SWATbots any day!!!

~Fin

Fleetway had Sonic fighting so many liquid based monsters, that it almost came off as a fetish of theirs. They must have gone off their nut when they found out about Chaos.

Fleetway had Sonic fighting so many liquid based monsters, that it almost came off as a fetish of theirs. They must have gone off their nut when they found out about Chaos.

I remember Mega Mack, and Metamorphia had a liquid form, but who else...?

The only other one I can think of was Plasma, and he was an energy being, not liquid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qKaXONmy4k This made me chuckle.

Man Shorty really was annoying, I nean every time he appeared he had to remind everyone about how Robotnik sealed him in that armour forever...

Ah Wraith! Thank you so much dude! Those examples are brilliant.
Also thanks Toby, and thanks again to John. That vid was pant wettingly funny! So funny, because it is so true.

Wow this list is coming along nicely. But Fleetway is still winning! C'mon Archie fans! Get your butts in action and defend the Knothole Kingdom!

http://blogs.sega.co...is-full-of-win/

Archie 205 has a "snoo-pingas usual" reference in it. Plus 1 Archie?

For having the most easter eggs and hidden cameos...Plus 2 Archie?

For giving StC characters lines in Archie's sonic comic...priceless

I cant actually believe I've helped Archie get points over Fleetway.

And I would have you know that Sally Acorn was a one time news reporter in STC.

Pics or it didn't happen.

This is her apparently. I've heard that Elson did base this on Sally.

I thought there was a chubby girl Tails called straight-up "Sally Acorn."

There might be but it was probably either early in the Kitching/Stringer era or before it.

That was a few times before Kitching and Stringer took the comic as sole creatives on Sonic, but whilst the series was still clinging very hard to the whole Retro-Orbital Chaos Compressor storyline Don't forget that Sally Acorn was the Western name for the squirrel friend in Sonic's entourage before Archie came alone (is the squirrel Ricky in Japan? I forget).

Issue 13 (which was a Mark Millar story) was definitely one instance because she was "zone leader" of Green Hill then, and I think that issue 3 was another because she was shown as having a younger brother named Tufty. I think she was also in issue 2 and issue 5, but I'm working off the top of my head - I definitely don't think we ever saw her again after issue 13, though.

StC didn't give Knuckles back his people, bar 1 who turned out to be evil.
Personal preference, but I always preferred Sonic's characterisation in StC - arrogant, cocky, self-assured, bit of a jerk, but not incapable of using his head or being sensitive when needed. I've not seen much of Archie but I'm less keen on what I have seen of their Sonic.
Robotnik may not have been quite so creepy in StC, but my goodness did they know how to make some awesome baddies. Metallix's first appearance was epic! "Bring me Sonic the Hedgehog. It is time for his termination."
Also the Brotherhood of Metallix - specifically the Emperor was very creepy. Example: Emperor Metallix is holding Grimer (Robotnik's assistant) in one of his huge hands, threatening to strangle him to death unless Sonic hands over something he needs for his evil plans. Sonic: "Grimer's the enemy pal! What makes you think I'll help him?" Emperor: "Because you are a weak creature of flesh. You lack the merciless nature of a Metallix!" Sonic: (Handing over the device to the Emperor) "...yup, I've got to admit you've got me there..."
Can't really add anything others haven't already - StC did awesome game tie-ins, was awesomely presented, usually well written and well drawn (with of course some unfortunate exceptions), had other game strips... 's all good!

Anyway I'll stop fanboy-ing now.

One thing I never liked about Richard Elson's art, was that he usually only used about five different stock poses on the characters, often with them holding their arms out behind them, for seemingly no reason at all.

http://blogs.sega.co...is-full-of-win/

Archie 205 has a "snoo-pingas usual" reference in it. Plus 1 Archie?

For having the most easter eggs and hidden cameos...Plus 2 Archie?

For giving StC characters lines in Archie's sonic comic...priceless

On the first matter, YouTubePoops are not big and their not clever. "OMG! ROBOTNIK SAID PENIS! HAR-BLOODY-HAR!" I'm sorry I can't bring myself to add that nonscense to the list. Maybe if you can hack my account and add it yourself, I'll say fair enough.
On the later points, as with John and his Sally Acorn thing, I'm going to need some specific examples before I add any points.

Speaking of which, that Sally Acorn is as Samanfur said just Sonic's animal friend Ricky from the games, and would just tie in to the fact that Fleetway had more focus on the source material.

Samanfur the Fox wrote:

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I definitely don't think we ever saw her again after issue 13, though.

That panel John posted was from Issue 33 actualy, the start of the "Enter Knuckles" storyline.

As for SilverShadow you've got some nice points but, I have a few issues with you're "StC didn't give Knuckles back his people" point.
I'm finding it hard to find your justification for adding it. I can only assume that you're saying that its a posstive point because it's more true to the games, which I feel is a mute arguement now Sonic Chronicles has done the same thing. If you'd care to word your point differently I'll have a better chance of justifying it.

Nice argument Toby! You are totally right, there are loads of recurring poses. My personal Sonic favourite's include "running towards camera", "knockback which looks like he's kicking someone" and "lazy spin attack" (you know which one I'm talking about).

That panel John posted was from Issue 33 actualy, the start of the "Enter Knuckles" storyline.

I know. But that character isn't actually using the name "Sally Acorn".

Like you said: Elson used the generic Sega look. He drew lots of squirrels like that. I was referring to the last occurrence of a character that we could positively identify as the original Western Sally.

On the later points, as with John and his Sally Acorn thing, I'm going to need some specific examples before I add any points.

Archie's sonic comic has MANY modern references to pop culture and features MANY cameos and easter eggs. I don't have any screen caps but any Archie sonic comic reader can back me up on this. Here are some of the pop culture cameos and easter eggs.

Star Wars (lots and lots of SW nods and even a mock up cover at one point)
VGcats (a character in the background)
TMNT (appear in a few panels, in the background)
Spawn (cameoed in several issues, gets a "official" tie in later in the comics run)
Ghostbusters (in several panels, Tails is working on a ghost trap and proton pack)
Star Trek (mainly during Kens run)
Facebook (one of the colorists put his facebook/myspace account screencap on several of the computers at Eggman's HQ)
Other Sega characters/video game characters (usually where ever SPAZ does a cover or story)
Sonic The Comic (for a few issues Sonic the Comic characters appear in Archie, they even get lines!!)
Super Mario Sunshine (lines spoken about getting shine sprites)
Mega Man (a Hyper Knuckles transformation scene references one of the X series I believe)
Archie staff (most usually seen in early off panel strips)
Sabrina teenage witch (cameo, tie in)
Sonic OVA (during a brief alt future romp, sara, metal robotnik show up)
Sonic Underground (tie in, alt universe)

These are just a few that are on the top of my head. I know that StC had a few cameos like sega systems and other sega characters. But Archie had those and then some. Yeah, the easter eggs don't have any bearing on the story or whatever, but I think they're fun to spot now and then. The current youtube meme reference is just another modern easter egg reference for readers to spot, and really only the die hard online sonic fans would get that one anyway.

I can't really choose one over the other. But being an American I have a higher preference for Archie. I think Archie's character designs were always better but the backgrounds in Fleetway were usually a lot better than Archie's.

And Fleetway came out biweekly with extra content? Extra Content? Who cares. Most of that crap had nothing to do with Sonic. The character I actually want to read about.

My memory is patchy but at least with Archie first to last page was all about Sonic. Give or take an advertisement or two

Also since it seems a big deal that Fleetway mirrored the games more. Archie Amy resembles the games more than Fleetway Amy ever did.

Sonicblaster, StC had plenty of pop culture references and Easter eggs.

But since they come from up to sixteen years ago and were aimed at a British audience, a lot of them were references that the average US-based Archie reader would probably miss - and quite a few of Sonic's target demographic in the UK by now, too.

Although to be honest, I don't see what the big deal is about pop culture references in either series. I personally found it rather difficult to properly suspend my disbelief and immerse myself in the idea of Mobius when, for an Archie example, Sonic got arrested and you had Amy marching up and down outside the jail, picketing and yelling "Shawshank! Shawshank!" as though it should mean something to a load of furries on what was then a completely alien planet. And are you honestly telling me that the Terminator obsession that Archie went through a few years back (Robodyne Systems et al?) was a good thing?

Kind of "Meh" considering the age of the target demographic, too. Sometimes I wonder how many of these things're for the older fans and how many're just writers showing off.

StC actually tended not to break its suspension of disbelief quite that badly most of the time, although Robotnik talking about Take That was a notable exception, and again, early in the run.

And to be fair, DB: Fleetway eventually figured out that solely focussing on Sonic and backstories to secondary characters was the way they wanted to go.

<strong class="quote-title" B Vulpix wrote:

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Also since it seems a big deal that Fleetway mirrored the games more. Archie Amy resembles the games more than Fleetway Amy ever did.

Perhaps the one element of the entire Sonic series where staying true to the games was actually a very BAD thing...

See. I very much disagree with that statement. But This entire list is opinion based so how can one side gain or loose points in the first place? It's totally up to the guy who made the list and since he already thinks Fleetway is better what's the point? It's already been decided.

Agreed. I was just throwing an opnion in.

<strong class="quote-title" B Vulpix wrote:

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See. I very much disagree with that statement. But This entire list is opinion based so how can one side gain or loose points in the first place? It's totally up to the guy who made the list...

Since I am "the guy who made the list", I feel I have to defend my corner. See, I just started the list off with a few initial opinions. It just so happened that Fleetway came out on top for me, largley based on presentation. I then threw it out to anyone else who had their opinions or arguements, and all that's happended is that more people have been argueing on the side of Fleetway. If more people were to argue cases that Archie is supior and Fleetway inferior then I'd be more than happy to add more pro-Archie/anti-Fleetway points. It's just nobody's making them.
Also since starting this post, I've had a chance to read a few Archie back issues, and attempting to play catch-up via issue synopsis sites, and I've found a few ways in which I prefer Archie over Fleetway. However, I have been weary of adding them to the topic since it may feature too much of my own bias.

...and since he already thinks Fleetway is better what's the point? It's already been decided.

The point is that there is no real point. It's mainly a list of different people's opinions ad observations. Its supposed to be just a bit of fun, and not to be taken seriously. I'll post almost anything, even massive contradicting arguements. And if I don't add anything or miss anything, there's nothing stopping readers from reading through the topic. So basicially, its all trivial.

Right, time to get back on topic. Thanks for being patiant, there's actually been soom nice pro-Archie arguements, espially your "Extra Content? Who cares" D.B. Btw, when you said "I very much disagree with that statement", is that your rebutal to Wraith's, "Perhaps the one element of the entire Sonic series where staying true to the games was actually a very BAD thing..."? 'Cos I'm with you on that.

Yeah i was rebutting that. I think Archie does a good enough job with Amy. I think she's written better here than in the games.. Keeping her base personality and not tom-boying her up. Why do cool fighter girls always have to be tom-boys anyway.

<strong class="quote-title" B Vulpix wrote:

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Yeah i was rebutting that. I think Archie does a good enough job with Amy. I think she's written better here than in the games.. Keeping her base personality and not tom-boying her up. Why do cool fighter girls always have to be tom-boys anyway.

Allow me to explain a little better. I'm not saying that all cool fighter girls have to be tomboys, and tbh I would question the fact that Fleetway Amy was a tomboy at all. She had a lot of feminnine traits that regularly surfaced, and her bravado streak didn't override those - she managed to be brave and strong, yet femminine at the same time.

The point I was making was with regard to her childish persuing of Sonic in the Archie series. Yes, let her have a crush on the guy, that's more in tune with the games and all, but did she have to be so irritating about it? The story where Nack frames Sonic comes to mind (Mecha Madness) where she's protesting outside Sonic's prison cell. With all that doting on the blue one and worshipping his every step, I just can't take her seriously - at least in Fleetway she had an ounce of credibillity behind her, and you could see how her personallity was formed and where it had come from.

I'm not talking about some steriotypical 'tomboy' being good, I'm meaning the equally (or even greater) steriotypical 'screaming fangirl' being bad.

That's where I'm coming from anyway. I respect that others may disagree with me, but I really did like Amy's personification better in Fleetway than Archie.

Accessing all Relevant Data. Sever

1) U.K. Sonic is not only more Punk, but a lot more Abusive to all of his Friends. Take Tails for Example. Sonic doesn't even care at all except for issue #2, then it's all about bringing Eggman Down. Sonic constantly chastises him as lazy and "Pixel Brain". Even when Tails goes to find Metamorpha disgused as Sonic's long lost brother, Sonic's words are "If You die, I'll Always remember you as the Annoying whiny brat you Are." I mean that epitomizes all of Sonic's relationships with the lad. When the "Freedom-Fighters" come to an agreement that Sonic doesn't like, he Storms out.

2) Shortfuse the Cybernik, A lot more Epic than Bunnie Rabbot. It's a Great Tragedy that is pulled off really good. Sorry if this Argument is Shallow. Further research is necessary.

3) Amy Rose. A Master Archer, a massive threat to Robotnik. Unlike the Archie Counterpart, she plays a Massive role in the F.F. From the beginning, she is a lot less docile and quick to act. Best of All, Killing all of those robots with a single arrow.

4) Tails. This is both a Plus and a Minus. Tails is a Pushover to Sonic. Really, he fears for his own life when he thinks about Sonic finding out about the no-name zone. He writes home and tells how Sonic is his sidekick and he fights against Robotnik. The Enchanter kings treat him terribly, making him solve all of their problems. But I've got to admit the one where he is sent after the Kids is pretty good. He even gets the honorific of "Zone-Runner". On top of that, Knuckles tags along to help out back home and comments "It's nice to see one place that doesn't worship that blue hog."

5) Messed up Plots, as part of the Western Philosophy I am immediately overwhelmed by this massive culture gap. This is just my opinion but I couldn't stand that ugly mug of doctor Robotnik's Assistant (Grimer). However the plot soars pretty fast, and reasonably coherently; Unlike it's Archie Counterpart, that struggles to establish Canon until the first 30 or 40 releases. This is basically a Tradition Gap argument.

6) Super Sonic being Evil? This is an interesting take on his transformation sequence. Both Creative and refreshing. It ruins the some what banal tradition though. When he *went to Rehab* and fell apart though was when I lost all faith in escaping the Status Quo of "try not to get Stressed". When he went to Kill off Amy Rose though was an interesting story. S.S. was a good character fused into the Protagonist, and useful in most cases. He is also a bit less appropriate than Archie's version.

7) "Eggman". I hated The model of Robotnik they used. It was gross enough in what I have the terrible memory of AoStH. Although I must admit, even though the art is repulsive to the sight, The Character is a GREAT Evil Genius! A lot more than the seemingly sedimentary Eggman That Archie boasts. However this one is Unable to do what Every other Eggman has done from the beginning, FOOL KNUCKLES. Knuckles distrusted Eggman, and kept the Gray Chaos Emerald. Why did he not just Terminate Eggman Right there and then? Stupid, Stupid Knuckles. Fleetway even does manage to make Him Omnipotent, but HE STILL CAN'T BEAT SONIC. I find that Hard to Believe.

8) Fleetway is Way too expansive. Sure the Sonic world is Huge, but this is Ridiculous. Archie manages to break the world apart much better, and more manageability comes with it.

9) The Metallix. At least a Billion times better than the Dark Legion (now D.E.L.). The Emperor being the Best Fleetway Villian I've cared about. When Sonic has the Weapon and is using it like a Bat to wreck the Metallix, Emperor manages to use Grimer to outwit Sonic and effectively "Doom the World" (How many times have you heard that?). That was just so dramatic. I gotta admit though when Tails thought he was taking them on by himself, he shouldn't have been so utterly stupid by not going for Sonic's help, but oh well, it was just burglars anyways. The Metallix could easily best the Sonic Troops that overwhelmed Sonic and Shadow in Archie.

I Will come up with more after further comparisons. Thanks for reading so far.