On almost every message board I go to, there are people who think they are smarter than everyone else because their athiest. I am a Christian, and personally believe all this "Religion has killed more people than anything else' is simple shitpumpering by the athiestic liberal right.
This forum isn't really for the picking of a group of people and then bashing (at least, that's not its intended purpose). What you're doing is basically what you're complaining about but from the other side of the fence.
Also, dying is the largest cause of death.
On almost every message board I go to, there are people who think they are better than everyone else because they're Christian. I am an atheist and personally I believe all this "atheism leads people to a life of sin and depravity" is simple s**tpumpering by the Christian conservative right.
Prejudice and intolerance go both ways. As an atheist I'm happy to let other people believe in whatever magical space beings they like if it makes them feel better. It's their choice; I've made mine. However if you are going to attack a broad set of belief systems, you could at least come up with a considered, constructive argument rather than spouting off an unsubstantiated attack.
As for atrocities being commited in the name of religion, that's more a result of humans being humans than any inherent problem with religion. People commit atrocities in the name of all sorts of things, religion just happens to be one of them.
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As for atrocities being commited in the name of religion, that's more a result of humans being humans than any inherent problem with religion. People commit atrocities in the name of all sorts of things, religion just happens to be one of them.
Could not have put it better Nuch.
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As for atrocities being commited in the name of religion, that's more a result of humans being humans than any inherent problem with religion. People commit atrocities in the name of all sorts of things, religion just happens to be one of them.
Second'd.
Why does everyone constantly argue about their beliefs when they should be taking off their shirts and getting killed by Greg Kinnear?
I believe beliefs should be believed by those who believe and for them not to try and make people who do not believe their beliefs to believe their belief. I also believe that their beliefs being used as an excuse for believing their entire personality and demeanour is a bad belief.
Of course. That's what I believe. Believe what you want to believe.
Nuch, couldn't agree more. o.o
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To each his own.
Really, I'm not an athiest nor a christian, although I have friends who are both.
I prefer "non-religous". I have my own philosophical beliefs and such (Existitilism [sp?] is something I'm heavy on), but if you must put me in a religous category, I'd say Deism, but I'm not %100 that.
I'm not going to bash you, but please, remember this: just because someone chooses a "religon" doesn't mean they fall into a category that they automatically perform "X" and "Y" actions, because others do, etc.
And Craig, that was awesome. ^_^
I really don't know what to add that hasn't already been said. But I'll sure as heck try.
It's not groups that are the issue. I can and DO pick on Christians, Republicans, and Pro-Lifers till I'm blue in the face but it's the old forest through the trees thing.
The real issue is self absorbed intolerant assholes. Atheists that insist all Religious people are illiterate retards. Christians that insist all arabs and gays are evil. Parents that send their gay/depressed/rebellious kids to brain wash camps. Those kind of people are the problem. We need to direct our frustration at them, not groups, individuals.
Religion has it's place. It's a powerful tool to give hope to the hopeless. Kids who have lost their family's have something to believe in to help them. Elderly with failing health can believe they will see their friends and family again, inmates have somewhere to turn for redemption.
Atheism also has a place. One just as important. It serves as a check and balance to prevent one religious group from becoming misguided and placing their beliefs over what is right. It serves as a belief system for the strong of spirit to hold fast to and maintain their independence from a god or gods.
It took a long, long time for the world to pull itself from the fear instilled by the Catholic Church of old so many years ago.
Our time is not nearly as dire and tragic. Many areas have started to wake up and slowly realize they need to rethink their old beliefs. But it will be a long time before everyone is truly accepted for who they are. Not their religion, skin color, sex, hair color, eye color, or sexuality.
The first post is proof enough that there are just as many people attacking non-religious people as there are people attacking religious groups. One day I hope it will all stop.
~Rico
I remember one thing a tour guide said to a group I was in on the first of three days - along the lines of "To make sure we don't get any falling out on this trip, no-one discuss religion or politics. Anything else is fine."
Since political and religious beliefs tend to be the ones most central to a person's view of the world, it's hardly a surprise that people are more inclined to defend them passionately.
Oh, and Craig, what happens when a belief that a believing person believes has as part of the belief that all who believe that belief must encourage those who do not believe that belief to start believing that belief? Or that those who do not believe that belief should be killed? Sadly, not all beliefs are as happy to let other beliefs exist...
PS Atheism is actually a religion as well. So give whoever said "religion causes most deaths" a kick up the arse because they're dissing themselves just as much as they are everyone else.
And yes, I'm atheist, but the majority of my irl friends are not. And yet I don't go shouting WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW at them every twenty seconds! :O
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PS Atheism is actually a religion as well.
Not really. Atheism is just the absence of theism.
How did I know that will happen.
Well as I understand it a religion is a mass belief in something, or in atheism's case, the absence of something. It's Atheism's single rule, I guess. So you could argue that it isn't a religion. Maybe it's just my opinion, I just see it as one.
If someone proves me wrong then so be it, I'm in no mood to argue back atm and I'm not very good at it anyway.
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Okays I've just been proven wrong in chat nvm. Disregard my posts if you like
Atheism isn't a religion. It's not even a single belief system. It's simply a property that belief systems can have. An illustrative example:
Alice does not believe in god, but she does believe that all people should generally try to be good and kind to each other provided they do the same. Bob does not believe in god, but he does believe killing and raping babies is a good thing to do.
Alice and Bob are both atheists. Alice and Bob do not, by any stretch of the imagination, have the same belief system.
Also there's actually two subtley different types of atheism: passive ("I don't believe any god exists.") and active ("I believe no god exists.")
(The logicians amongst us will notice that those two statements are logically equivalent. In English, however, they have subtly different semantics: the first describes an absence of belief, the latter the presence of the opposite belief.)
BLANK
Unless you're talking about the difference between passive and active atheism, it's actually more like sandwich spreads and greasy. 😉
aasdfasdfasdfasdf acrio why'd you have to go and remove your butter and margerine analogy now my post makes no sense >=(
RIGHT BACK AT YOU, CHAMP
I don't see anything such as "Good" and "Evil". They're just differing points of veiw to me.
I mean, what appears as "Good" can just as easily be veiwed as "Evil" to another.
Hence: Bob kills Mort. Normally, this would be seen as "Evil". However, there are circumstances we are not aware of. Like this, Mort brutally raped Bob's mom and killed her and his father. Bob was so overcome by this, that he felt it necessary to act on his own and get even.
However, "To each his own." If you don't agree with me, fine. But that's how I feel o.o
HEY GUYS I'M ATHEIST AM I COOL NOW
Wesu, please don't spam.
Acrio did up above. But okay, you're the boss.
Duuude, not classy. *stands in front of his name*
If somebody doesn't believe in god it's ok with me so long as they don't look at religious people as morons.
Although I do have a saying I made up(please don't be offended)about Athiesm-
"Atheism is the religion of the weak. Those who do not have the intestinal fortitude or courage to suck up and admit to a higher power."-Me in the shower after a meditation session.
Ummm... I'd have to say no @ MM&SG
Agnostics? Maybe. But hell, I try not to group people by their beliefs... It makes you look shallow...
Hey. If I cared enough in my lack of belief I'd be offended, Hiro.
As it stands, I just don't care enough to call it a lack of courage.
Lack of interest sure. But not courage. You're an one of those hater athiests, aren't you Michael? AREN'T YOU?!
SCIENCE DAMN YOU CRAIG!
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"Atheism is the religion of the weak. Those who do not have the intestinal fortitude or courage to suck up and admit to a higher power."-Me in the shower after a meditation session.
Please don't mix meditation and showering again.
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"Atheism is the religion of the weak. Those who do not have the intestinal fortitude or courage to suck up and admit to a higher power."-Me in the shower after a meditation session.
I must disagree with you here. Is it weak to think for oneself rather than accept what somebody else has set into place? If you choose Christianity, I have no problems with that. Many of my friends are Christians to be honest. But to say that because one does not choose to believe in a higher power... makes them weak... I'm sorry, but I almost wanted to gag there.
I know you requested that this not make other people angry, but I believe you are asserting a "I'm right, you're wrong, deal with it" mentality here. And to be frank, that pisses me off.
Now, I don't think Christians are mindless zombies that only do what God tells them to do. They are people just like any other. Just as Athiests, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Satanists, Buddhists, Shintoists, Hindus, and any other religous group (Yes, that includes "weird" cult groups too. They are people as well. :P)
Now, I've got that off my chest, I feel much better! ^_^
Even Scientologists, Aeva?
I think that would fall under "'weird' cult group".
Yes Craig, they ARE people. >.>
Tom Cruise is not a person. He's a malfunctioning robot and you KNOW it.
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"Atheism is the religion of the weak. Those who do not have the intestinal fortitude or courage to suck up and admit to a higher power."-Me in the shower after a meditation session.
What Aeva said. Debate all you like, but don't insult an entire group of people for having the audacity to question something that you can't even disprove, and when you don't even explain what you find weak.
Personally, I find atheism a hard option, not a weak one. It doesn't offer any comfort of an afterlife, and you ultimately accept that you're responsible for your own actions and destiny, rather than using "Well, God just mustn't have meant it to be" or "God/Satan told me to do it" as an abdication of your own responsibility.
Speaking up for the agnostics; a choice to not pursue/settle on further comprehension of our existence due to such a pursuit's ineffectualness isn't necessarily a sign of weakness. And the reason I gave for choosing agnosticism is only mine.
It turns out I am more speaking up for people who think generalizations are stupid. 
Your trouble seems to be a belief that everyone in a group is there for one main reason, and that they will all behave the same. It's troubling to me that I am wasting time enough to tell you that this is not true (in MG no less). ^O^
I know I've said this before, but I will say it again. People are um, ya know... PEOPLE.
They can think for themselves. And some come to the conclusion that a particular system of beliefs is not the right one.
Please, do not generalize people like that. Do you want me to generalize you and say that you will automatically do X and Y because of your belief system? I'm thinking you DO. However, I may be wrong on that front. And if I am, please forgive me.
And as Sam said, what exactly is weak about Athiesm? Please, answer that question. And note, I am not an athiest. However, I have many friends who are. I do not have a "religon", rather, my own system of beliefs. And I have not found one religon that matches it. The only thing that comes close is Deism at best and it does not accurately portray my views.
I maybe should've made it clearer that I'm an agnostic myself, and the thoughts I gave on atheism came from discussions with an atheist relative.
I'm well aware of your agnosticism, Sam. o.o
I still shouldn't have taken it for granted that everyone would know or be able to figure it out. 🙂
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Debate all you like, but don't insult an entire group of people for having the audacity to question something that you can't even disprove, and when you don't even explain what you find weak.
Like I said above, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ATHIESM AS LONG AS YOU DON'T TREAT PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN A GOD LIKE MORONS OR INFERIORS, or stereotype them.
And then...there are the people who basically treat religion as the root of all evil; the target of my rant.
Mm... After reading through this, I was half-tempted to make a topic simply stating "What is it you believe?" and only asking for replies, as I'm very interested in seeing the varying degrees of beliefs or lack thereof. ^_^ I realize, however, that I'd be opening up a massive can of worms and without pretty constant supervision would very likely turn into people attacking each other. I'd like to think we're all mature enough to handle it, however, so I am still tempted. :3
As for the quote that people are ripping apart, um, what the people are saying o.o
It's difficult no matter what road you pursue. The easist choice to make I think would be to not make a choice at all and simply not think about it, because to think about all the different possibilities with an open mind makes your head hurt (or mine, at least). I've been battling with a lot of "crises of faith" recently simply because of my open-mindedness, and sometimes I even envy those with closed minds because they can follow what they believe with conviction to the end of time. I'm too wishy-washy, I couldn't do that without looking at every single option or going where my heart tells me, even if it says there's a God in Heaven above one day and an ambiguous spirit that envelops everything another day. And the hardest part is that there is very little concrete proof for any side that it's almost impossible to make a decision via evidence alone.
Anyway, I'm getting long-winded again. If anyone's interested in the topic I talked about above, feel free to mention or even create it ^^
EDIT: OOH NEW POST! I WANNA BE FIRST TO REPLY! PICK ME! YAY!
Like I said above, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ATHIESM AS LONG AS YOU DON'T TREAT PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN A GOD LIKE MORONS OR INFERIORS, or stereotype them
I think everyone's having problems with what you're saying because you're telling them not to stereotype you, even though you're stereotyping all atheists as people who want to give those with other beliefs a hard time.
Just relax, dude. Your faith is your own, and don't let some people get you down. ^^ If you leave them alone, they'll leave you alone, and if they goad you, don't take the bait. Pretty simple. Answering unasked questions just creates headaches.
EDIT AGAIN: Ohhhohohoh.... This is just my lucky day with editing, yes?
And then...there are the people who basically treat religion as the root of all evil; the target of my rant.
Well, yes. You do get some people like that. But they have their own beliefs too, and as long as they're not hurting anything besides your feelings, they're not doing any harm and should be left alone. Ignorance sucks, but if the people don't want to open their eyes, there's nothing you can do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Keep throwing water at it and it'll eventually drown. Then you've got a dead horse on your hands. Now what do you do with that? :p
~Shadowed Spirit Sage
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And then...there are the people who basically treat religion as the root of all evil; the target of my rant.
Well, obviously people who say that are stupid. Simple mathematics can prove them wrong.
Boston, that was awesome. XD
I should've done that a long time ago! >_>
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Like I said above, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ATHIESM AS LONG AS YOU DON'T TREAT PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN A GOD LIKE MORONS OR INFERIORS, or stereotype them.
You just called atheists weak! Bit of a double standard, yes? Would it kill you to try to see the argument from an Atheist's point of view so as to understand it better? Then you might realize what you're doing.
Most atheists (that I know) don't see religious people as morons, but as people who have deluded themselves owing to overwhelming societal pressure.
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And then...there are the people who basically treat religion as the root of all evil; the target of my rant.
Religion isn't the root of all evil. It's just a powerful tool that evil people can use. It's also a powerful tool that good people can use, but sadly I see a lot more of the former.
This thread needs an agnostica link about this time of year, for science! =D
I'm in the agnostic and to lazy to really care camp myself. I'd like to think that there is some higher power, but if there is, it'd be indefinable by anything we can throw at it, so we might as well stick to defining what we can. And sometimes what we cant. Blummin' quantum.
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Then you've got a dead horse on your hands. Now what do you do with that?
Beat it!
XD **hug Matt** I was waiting for someone to say that.
~Shadowed Spirit Sage
He lacks the needed link to a youtube of the video though.
~Tobe (Can I say I'm atheist just so you won't talk to me?)
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~Tobe (Can I say I'm atheist just so you won't talk to me?)
You hate me Toby? WAAAAAAAAAHHH!
He hates most people, you'll get over it.
He loves me... god damn it, how did I end up with this curse?
Because you were cursed with being cute. Duh.
~Tobe
Did anyone notice that megaman said s and dodged the censor. I think a punishment is needed.
Also not all athiests are liberals. And I'm not sure that liberal right is an actual thing. Athiests are offended by this spumpering from the Religous conservative left.
