yet a black person is encouraged to "act wihte".

Believe me, that's not true. I'm black so I know what it's like. I like rap but I'm repulsed by most of the materialistic. Anyway, my point is that whites who "act black" are not accpeted in "white society" and blacks who "act white" are not accepted to "black society." Heck it's much worse for a black if he doesn't "act his race."

I, myself like rap more than rock. But I also like some rock songs. Especially from Sonic games. I grew up in the ghetto but I didn't like it because it wasn't safe.

Some people "act a different race" because it is ACTUALLY who they really are.

I pretty much agree with AR. I've never liked the idea of having all my beliefs, tastes, and looks being limited because I belong to a certain race. I like to be unique and do whatever the crap I want without being told to act like my race. Thankfully, that's never been a problem for me.

As for my race, I'm of Puerto Rican descent, but I can't speak more than a few sentences in Spanish and I'm not all that fond of Hispanic music. And not only do I not act Hispanic, I don't look Hispanic either. At least, that's what my friends think.

I have no problem with white, black, or whatever people acting and dressing and whatnot however they like.

It does sort of bug me, however, when I see little upper-middle-class and upper-class white kids using pathetic fake "ghetto" accents, not because I think they're trying to "act black", but because it's kind of sad that our culture has reached the point that we're taking hackneyed black stereotypes and putting them on pedestals as something that is "cool" and should be emulated.
There's a reason black people in North America feel as if they're isolated and discriminated against. It doesn't exactly help when we pay handfuls of black people with little to no talent to go on TV and make idiots of themselves, glorifying gang violence as if it were a lifestyle that it is desirable for children of all races to model themselves after, and the sad fact is that a lot of poor kids in the inner city do.

So I have no problem with the kids expressing their individuality; what I have a problem with is them doing it by emulating the lowest of scum; Rappers who portray a negative image of their own race that reflects poorly on today's youth.

I have no problem with people being themselves.

Unless it's a white person trying to act black. Then it's just HILARIOUS.

I'd say something, but it'd basically be a repeat of what Wonderbat just said.

So yeah.

On a side note, does anyone have any earthly idea why 'gangsta-rap' is glorified the way it is? I can't really find any redeeming values.

There's an interesting social concept that's been developed from feminism that seems somewhat apt here. Basically, the idea is that society as a whole divides things into 2 categories, e.g. male/female, black/white, able/disabled, and so forth. Then one of the two is seen as "good", while the other "bad" - for instance, typically white able-bodied heterosexual males = the epitomy of good, while the reverse is bad. Hence the traits inherent in the good category get encouraged in people, and expected from certain sections of society, while the others are frowned upon.

While this is a theory about what happens, there's been a lot of support for pointing out where these judgements exist, and looking to dispel the myths that one type is inherently good, while the other bad. Just look at the approach to being PC recently for evidence (if somewhat overzealous). The other thing which is being attempted is to, while recognising certain traits to be more common in one group, rather than another, the traits could be foound in those outside of the expected - hence men acting in a more feminine way, for example - without there being anything wrong with that individual - they are what they are.

As for the glorification of 'gangsta-rap', I think that's mostly due to the ghetto culture it has grown out of originally, and so is seen as a symbol of identity against the struggle of living in discrimination. Think of it like the folk music of a given culture, although possibly not quite as pleasant to listen to, and far more politically meaningful.

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As for the glorification of 'gangsta-rap', I think that's mostly due to the ghetto culture it has grown out of originally, and so is seen as a symbol of identity against the struggle of living in discrimination. Think of it like the folk music of a given culture, although possibly not quite as pleasant to listen to, and far more politically meaningful.

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I can think of better things that people can do than sing about pimps, hos, bling bling, gangs, etcetera whilst using swear words without delay. Like...

Volunteer work.
Finding a job to support your family.
School.
Physical activity.

It's at least far more productive for the ghetto culture than gangsta-rap.

The "gangsta" lifestyle has been glorified and heavily romanticized by modern Top 40-charting gangsta rappers in the same way Hollywood has romanticized the cowboy/American West lifestyle among many other things.

I could go into detail about why I like it so much, but that's a seperate topic from what I'm attempting to establish. My bringing up of it just means that if some kid, black, white or whatever, wants to dress like or otherwise show how much they love these rappers, then they can go right ahead. Chances are it's not hurting anobdy (unless of course, they chose to abuse drugs or guns).
www.nwaworld.com/lyrics/c...ress.shtml

Ultra, you just missed the point of the question you asked which was answered. "Gangsta-rap" isn't about the cursing. It's about the gang life-style and culture that some people live in--that's all. Many people can think of "other" things to rap about (and there are many that do) but then it wouldn't be "gangsta-rap." It would just be "rap." As for why it's on the airwaves, you have to ask those who control the airwaves. If there's one thing the whole downloading music on the internet has proven, there are a lot of good artists in all music genres that don't get airplay on radio stations or truly promoted, but if people hear the musician(s), people will get (and even pay for) their music.

As for the original topic, when people en masse start to seperate "skin color" (i.e. race) from "attitudes" (i.e. culture), the world will be a better place. ;p

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There's an interesting social concept that's been developed from feminism that seems somewhat apt here. Basically, the idea is that society as a whole divides things into 2 categories, e.g. male/female, black/white, able/disabled, and so forth. Then one of the two is seen as "good", while the other "bad" - for instance, typically white able-bodied heterosexual males = the epitomy of good, while the reverse is bad. Hence the traits inherent in the good category get encouraged in people, and expected from certain sections of society, while the others are frowned upon

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I think that could be said of second wave feminism, but the general discourse of third wave (current) feminism is the idea that race, class and gender intersect to create personal/political constructs. I totally agree with you though that masculine, white able-bodied is expectation while other traits are discouraged. I think hip-hop fashion can be seen as simply that, a fashion, for many of the individuals (of any color) that follow it. Ultimately race should not be associated with any inherent personality traits.

However, I really don't like it when people ignore their own place in this whole social structure we live in and compare themselves to a historically opressed race. That's what irritates me about Eminem. If the idea is that because you had to grow up in a pretty crappy place like Detroit with crappy parents and no money you have the right to say that you understand being "oppressed" then my dad should be putting out a hip hop anthology next week. Pardon my horrible comparison.

The funny thing about Eminem is that he grew up in an upscale suburb of Detroit, nowhere near eight-mile road.

Astrid, Eminem sells records because he is a clever, talented lyricist, not by playing the pity card. I'm not really clear why he irritates you, are saying it's because he discusses his poor upbringing? That's the way he grew up, and he does have every right to talk about it--and it's not even the majority of the content of his lyrics. I do know that you dislike his lyrics, that's just a matter of personal taste that I'm not going to argue with.

I'd also like to point out now to others that gangster rap has a negative effect on today's youth just as much as violent video games do.

I'm sorry for going off-topic, I did not start this topic with intention of discussing Eminem's purpose or gangsta rap's purpose.

Well, here's something else.
In cartoons aimed at kids, the black characters are usually either "hip" or "the nerd". Well, a hip character is a very common stereotype, and the nerd is trying hard to avoid it. Are there any black characters in cartoons that are non-stereotypical (like 'hip' or universally atheletic) and non-trying too hard to be not stereotypical?
I can only think of Cleveland from Family Guy and Carl from The Simpsons as just average guy characters that are black. Oh wait, there's that Bill Cosby cartoon, Fatherhood. That's an exception.

And, the other side of the spectrum. I guess that since the white, Christian male is the standard level in society, we don't seem to note many white stereotypes. I remember a line from the Boondocks strip..."Real-life white people don't act like they do on Seinfeld."

If a black character was as much as a dumbass as Homer Simpson or Peter Griffin, do you think anybody would find it offensive (or pretend to be offended)?

((Edit: Wonderbat,
The significance of Eminem and 8 Mile Road is that 8 Mile Road is the boundary between Detroit and northern suburbs, and it also represents a racial and class boundary. That's where the movie title came from ("You better take that white-ass rap @#%$ of yours back on the other side of 8 Mile!").
Eminem's music has also been published by something called Eight Mile Style long before anyone ever thought he should star in a feature film.))

Eminem sells records because he is a clever, talented lyricist

They call me superman, leap tall hoes in a single bound
I'm single now, got no ring on this finger now
I'd never let another chick bring me down, in a relationship
Save it b-tch, babysit, you make me sick
Superman ain't savin' sh-t, girl you can jump on Shady's dick
Straight from the hip, cut to the chase, I tell a muthaf-ckin' slut, to her face
Play no games, say no names, ever since I broke up with what's her face
I'm a different man, kiss my ass, kiss my lips, b-tch why ask
Kiss my dick, get my cash, I'd rather have you whip my ass
Don't put out, I'll put you out, won't get out, I'll push you out
Puss blew out, poppin' sh-t, wouldn't piss on fire to put you out
Am I too nice, buy you ice, b-tch if you died, I wouldn't buy you life
What you tryin' to be my new wife, what you Mariah, fly through twice

You can just feel the talent and cleverness.

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In cartoons aimed at kids, the black characters are usually either "hip" or "the nerd".

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The same could be said for all White characters, or all Asian characters, or [insert your qualifying descriptor of choice] characters.

The only reason people even pay attention to the "race" of characters is because people have too many unresolved issues of classifying how people behave based on skin color--which most people can agree is stupid YET the problem is that they continue to do it anyway.

Everytime someone continues the attitude that "strong female character means that they must be trying to promote 'girl power'" (as per your beginning post) or "a black nerd is attempting to avoid the hip stereotype" (though how hip is supposedly a common black stereotype is beyond me) you continue to perpetuate what you supposedly are complaining about.

The popular cultural stereotypes always break down upon closer examination.

A black man in a suit? Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, Malcom X, George Washington Carver, Colin Powell.

Black country singer? Charlie Pride..

A powerful woman? Hillary Clinton, Sandra Day O'Connor, Condoleeza Rice, Diane Feinstein...

The truth is that the Black middle class has been growing, and that prosperity has been seen as "white" be the poor black community, hence the huge emphasis on urban ghetto gangsta lifestyle.

"White America" doesn't have such a unified culture of victimhood to fall back on, and consequently are much more tolerent of a wider range of behavior in the middle and upper classes.

The truth is that America really is the great melting pot, and eventually the concept of "acting your race" will go away. Just like folks don't look down on me for enjoying pirogis or kolaches even tho I'm not polish or slavic.

Eat what you want, listen to what you want, live your life by your own terms. Only by being true to yourself will you free yourself from the bonds of other peoples expectations. After all, who are you living for, them or you?

Jimro

Stumbleina, true, 2nd wave feminism did pave the way for 3rd wave. However, it focussed a lot more (AFAIK) on creating identity and cultural recognition for the feminine and making it acceptable to discuss what it was to be female. Through that, I imagine the move to breaking down stereotypes was not too hard - the main difference just being in the emphasis in motive.

As for Eminem, a certain amount of his style is that he is parodying a style (or, at least, can easily be seen as doing so), and so a large number of the lyrics are intended to be light-hearted tongue-in-cheek, rather than seriously suggesting that what he is rapping should be taken as the truth. In that sense, he is a fairly good artist, IMO. If you do take him as not parodying, then it no longer seems as great.

Ah, I gotta agree with you there, AR.

In my school, the majority of the kids there are black, and there's this one guy in my class called Lawrie who is white, and most people would call him the "typical englishman", but he also listens to Eminem, 50 cent(who I dislike incredibly, buy anywho), and all the other gansta rap and RnB, and some people say that he is trying to be black, too(everyone else is too scared coz he's so big and strong and popular and junk >>).

But you just gotta admire the guy, coz he doesn't care what people think about his colour or the way he talks-he just does his thing and listens to what he wants to listen to, despite being the only white kid in class.

So, I don't have a problem with people trying out different cultures, I mean, it's a free world; if black people only listened to gansta rap, white people only listened to pop, and all the other races only did what their culture is all about then the world would be...boring oO;

(Wesu, "Superman" is not Eminem's worst song, IMO. "Fack" is, and I want to slap him for putting it on his Greatest Hits.)

TR, I see what I you mean. I guess I am adding to what I'm attempting to speak out on.

The portrayal of females in the media used to bother me, but now it doesn't really irk me anymore. In fiction, all characters are a stereotype in some way, that's how fiction works. That last sentence probably just canceled out anything I said about the media, but I'm trying to provoke discussion rather than inject a strong opinion either way.

It's that time of year again, Black History Month. Well, what do you guys think of the concept of Black/Women's/Asian/Hispanic/whatever race History or Heritage month/week?

Eminem's skin colour notwithstanding, he still sucks.

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It's that time of year again, Black History Month. Well, what do you guys think of the concept of Black/Women's/Asian/Hispanic/whatever race History or Heritage month/week?

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I don't mind them and I usually find them interesting since most of the stuff you will learn (IF the particular heritage month is a mainstream one) isn't discussed as part of "regular" history. I do think "regular" history has improved greatly in terms of acknowledging other heritages (besides the original British/French stuff in terms of the creation of the U.S.) in U.S. history--at least from what I've seen. I also like them in that they provide a "routine" of sorts in terms of acknowledgements. These heritage months/weeks are sort of like Valentine's Day to me. If you love someone, you should let the person know on other days besides February 14th, but it's still nice (to me) to have a "universal" recognition day anyway for stuff.

(Cycle, if you want a reaction from me other than this sentence, you can take it to AIM. =D)

I'm currently watching the opening ceremony of the Olympics. I like watching this ceremony every two years because it shows different people coming together. I think that's why I enjoy World History more than U.S. History--the diversity makes it more interesting. But then again, the U.S. is very diverse, as Jimro said, it's the "melting pot" of society.

I see the heritage month/weeks as a way of shedding light on the various ethnicities that make up America that don't always get much recognition in history class. Except for French week, I've never had to do anything for school for any of these. Though, there's usually a posters up at school or something on the local news about whichever it is.
My current U.S. History teacher told us that he disagrees with the concept of Black History Month. He believes that it leaves the impression that we can celebrate a particular group for one month and then forget about it for the rest of the year. He said we should celebrate all history year round.
I think that celebrating heritage, either one's own or another one, is a good thing no matter how or when you do it.

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Buying these items in this environment made me feel like a HUGE wigger. When I told that to my therapist, she said something that implied that I already was a wigger. In my head, a true wigger is a white person that is consciously trying to act "gangsta". Dack told me that he perfers the term "wanksta" to describe that. There are many people who will automatically write off a white fan of rap/hip hop is a "wigger" even though that person isn't actually trying to "act black"--I see it all the time in the Complaints forum on DA. I get the impression that if one of those thread authors ever saw me in my South Pole coat, wearing my bling, and saw N.W.A. or something on my MP3 player, they'd get on DA and whine about suburban white kids that think they're gangsta. In real life, I have been challenged for listening to N.W.A.--apparently, because I don't do drugs or get in trouble with the police, I'm not supossed to listen to gangster rap.

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((Before I start, I am not a 'wanksta'. Just wanted to clear that up with you guys. I'm pure hardocre rock, straight to the core.))

Bingo dude. I happened to borrow my friends iPod (I know. I've joined the dark side) and he had somethin' like Ludacris on there and I let my friend see it and he asked if my friend tried to act black. If he was a wigger. As if white dudes can't listen to rap, y'know?

But I really have to blame that on how uncultured my town is. Rap isn't black people music. Oh no. It's wigger music. I don't think half the people in Milton have actually met a black dude. I gott skit that later...

Anyway, I see where you're comin' from dude. You need to get your ass over to my town and make these people understand.

Rap, rock, it's all music.

White, black, yellow, green, brown, who cares?

Oh and this so reminded me of the movie Malibu's Most Wanted

Just because someone's a particular race doesn't mean that this person should act like the norm. In fact, I suggest to do the opposite: be your [blank] yourself. This doesn't mean that you should disregard your background or the background of others.

I'm of Hispanic background but I can't dance any Spanish dances for all that's worth (and Hispanics are supposed to be great dancers and such). I have also met several people (one who I see frequently because I work with this individual) who are of Hispanic descent yet they speak Spanish rarely (and the individual who I work can't speak it without sounding like he has just learned the language).

First off, wiggers annoy me not because they're transgressing some racial boundary, but because gangster rap in general annoys me. It's crass, vulgar, and anti-intellectual. (People can argue "so is rock or metal, but it doesn't get a backlash because it's not black music," but I've seen some pretty intellectual rock and metal.)

Also, if someone comes from a suburb or upper class neighborhood, they are tremendously blessed; why act like maladjusted little thugs instead of trying to do something positive? Besides, I feel that doing something out of a sense of community, cultural history and spirituality has a lot more integrity than copying what's trendy, which is many wiggers (or people who get Asian characters tattooed on their butts because it's "deep".) This is like the white kids who act Japanese. "Oh, Asia is so exotic! So mysterious! The geishas are so delicate and graceful, the samurai are so honorable!" Gawd. I'm Asian, and all this "respect" is really annoying and reminds me of 19th century praise: "These island primatives live such pristine, simple lives in harmony with nature!" There's a difference between genuine respect for other cultures and tacky, offensive aping.

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On a side note, does anyone have any earthly idea why 'gangsta-rap' is glorified the way it is? I can't really find any redeeming values.

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Because black people have been screwed over for so long that they don't trust the white establishment. The "white" path to success is to stay in school, get a job in corporate America, grind your way up bureaucratic levels of management. More conformity, more obedience, especially to people who have for a very long time treated black people with contempt. Rappers are like cowboys and pirates... yeah, they don't exactly indulge in moral behavior, but it's glamorous because it's bad, it's free-wheeling, and makes them larger than life.

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I've noticed that the role of black/white stereotypes is the same as female/male stereotyped. In society, a white person is ridiculed for supposedly "acting black", yet a black person is encouraged to "act wihte". Also in society, if a girl is a tomboy, she's showing GURRL POWER and is celebrated. If a boy is somewhat feminine, OMG HE MUST BE GAY OR SOMETHING. Hmmm!

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I think black people take crap for "acting white" mostly from other black people, while the encouragement to "act white" comes from white people. And honestly, this is because "colorless" fields like business and higher level academics are culturally white.

If a girl is a tomboy, it's only GURL POWER if she's hot. If she's a bouncy blonde soccer player in booty shorts, she's "a strong, tough athlete" in a complimentary way. If she's a female body builder, she's "ew, gross." Female action heroes are vampire hunters in tight leather with perfect hair, makeup and pouty lips, not Clint Eastwoods, with gray hair, dirty, gritty clothes, and weathered faces with actual character. Janet Reno got crap for being masculine. I bet no other Attorney General had to worry about trying to be more feminine; it's absurd this should even be an issue in someone with her responsibilities. You'll have the "female cop" in cop shows or the "smart female nerd" in webcomics, but she'll always be young and hot, even if the male characters are average-looking and different ages. You never see any female comedians, or funny female characters, because being funny would ruin teh hotness. (Think sitcoms... comically clumsy ugly man, hot wife. 8-Bit theater, Discworld Guards, User Friendly: bizzarre cast of male characters that get into hilarious hijinks, one beautiful "voice of reason" female character.) Things are easier for a tomboy girl than a "wussy" boy, but it's still unfortunate that women are primarily judged by their looks.

Well i am dutch and the stereotypical dutchman is 'ment' to be able to ice skate and ride a bike. I cannot do either of these things. If anyone thinks people should act their race they know nothing multi cultural affairs. People should learn about other cultures and traditions just because ice skating and biking are sports it does not mean i cannot be fat and lazy like i am!