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Bye Bye Fifth Amendment - Part II

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(@samanfur-the-fox)
Posts: 2116
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Topic starter
 

Well, maybe not literally the Fifth, since the people affected by this most likely aren't going to be covered by it.

But there're already international organisations and entire press agencies trying to avoid the US because of Bush's return to archaic visa laws.

I definitely wonder what this'll do to the tourist industry - it's putting me off going back to the US, for one thing, and I was wary enough about having to pay out for biometrics before I even knew that things'd go this far.

Just where is this crusade for the splendid isolation of Fortress America going to stop?

 
(@sandygunfox)
Posts: 3468
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While that is kinda creepy, tbh I think the government might have something more to do than look up the sex lives of random passengers. If they're interested in someone enough to be looking into them that detailedly, probably the passenger has something to hide. If not, sure, the data'll be there, but noone's really going to care.

Still.

 
(@samanfur-the-fox)
Posts: 2116
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I appreciate the "Only the guilty have anything to hide!" mindset (even if it's getting up there with "You're either with us or against us!" in the justification stakes) - but even disregarding the political overtones, in the era of identity theft, I don't see why such personal details have to be open to potential abuse by so many faceless people.

It seems nonsensical from a logistical standpoint, and - whilst I know that this is very emotive language - I'd personally feel fairly violated, having to hand all of that over to just randomly go on holiday.

If you (as in, the US as an abstract) want to question people buying fertiliser or taking flying lessons, then that's fair enough. But vetting anyone who just wants to come into the country seems scattergun and, as you said, creepy.

It's been a couple of years since I was last in the US. Have the Department of Homeland Security tightened these sorts of controls on US citizens moving around the country or heading out, or is it just us un-Americans who're being subjected to this?

 
(@sandygunfox)
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It's not "If you're innocent you have nothing to hide." While I see a certain logic in that, I also see no reason for it - I'd hope the government can find a better reason to look into something than "Maybe s/he's hiding something, and if not, oh well."

It's that "If you're innocent, don't worry about it, because nobody that's supposed to access this information really cares about you." This is a law enforcement measure. If you haven't broken any laws, they're not gonna spend the time of day to run down every detail of your personal life. They have better things to do with their time, like tracking down what the criminal in the seat behind you did. And everyone knows, there is ALWAYS a criminal within ten feet of you if you're in public.

And I don't know. Are you guys allowed to carry bottled water on flights?

 
(@samanfur-the-fox)
Posts: 2116
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Yes, but we have to taste it in front of airport staff first.

It's that "nobody really cares about you" that worries me - it's anonymity like that that makes abuse of systems like this so easy, because there're so many unimportant targets.

 
(@sandygunfox)
Posts: 3468
Famed Member
 

Sam, anything can be used for evil. A police officer can use a gun to force a dangerous man to surrender, or a dangerous man can use a gun to kill a police officer. How easily it can be abused is a horrible measure of whether or not it's good or bad. I dunno, this seems like the sort of thing that usually has a lot of unfounded fears attached to it.

 
(@samanfur-the-fox)
Posts: 2116
Noble Member
Topic starter
 

I see what you're saying, but there just seems to be a strange contradiction in making a whole load of random personnel in a whole load of random agencies able to access intimate details in the name of "security".

Do the government check who works for all of these agencies as thoroughly as they seem to want to vet Outsiders?

 
(@Anonymous)
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If everyone answers "Jedi" to sexuality and religion, problem solved. =D

 
(@evalc)
Posts: 195
Estimable Member
 

This is very frustrating to hear. To think that my own government has no problem obtaining such seemingly mindless statistics on people coming in from the EU yet we can't seem to get a grip on our own poorly controlled Southern Border?! Where is the government's priorities here?

 
(@ultra-sonic-007)
Posts: 4336
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Quote:


This is very frustrating to hear. To think that my own government has no problem obtaining such seemingly mindless statistics on people coming in from the EU yet we can't seem to get a grip on our own poorly controlled Southern Border?! Where is the government's priorities here?


QFT

 
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