I don't think Abortion is murder.... I don't think you can ask the children who never existed...

In some cases it's better not to have a child, better no risked life than one brought up by parents who aren't ready or don't have the means, or worce dont care. The risk is to great, better not to be borne at all then rik not just a substandard life but possibly a hellish one...

I don't count abortion as Murder and i don't care how many there have been in 85 years, so it wont sway me at all.
Sorry, that's all I can say on the matter, touting figures wont change my mind.

Ever think about that?

My cousin was up for adoption because Social services deemed my aunt was unfit to look after her daughter...

My mum volunteered to take her in, so she became my step sister. I have to say there were some HELLISH moments that I wont go into, we all did things we were ashamed off. But it was worth it, because after 8 years of campaigining, appeals and repaying her debts my aunt was able to take her back...

But, I saw the child grow up with no real parents. I know the pain she went through because she never saw her mother. She spent 3 years in a foster home and never saw her once, met her for the first time four years after that... Social services thought it was a bad move, thought she wouldn't even remember her mother... They couldn't of been more wrong, it was the best thing we ever did for the girl.

I have no trust in social services, there was nothing wrong with my aunt, it's just that she knew some dodgy friends and after her partner left her, had to call in babysitters to look after her daughter whilst she was earning money. It was the babysitters who gave her the scars, who let her down, who did all of that but they got of scot free cos they moved to another city and my aunt never filed charges with the police...

I'm not saying i'd rather my cousin had never been born, I'm just saying that my aunt wasn't that badly off. She was stressed, single, going through troubled times and I saw the pain everyone on every side experienced, I felt a heck of a lot of it myself.

If someone in a worce positon than my aunt found out they were pregnant, i don't think it's unfeasable to cancel the birth. Even if they do give up the child it's one more lost soul and one more angry parent who never got to see their child.

Sometimes yes, adoption can be good, but I personally think it's up to the parents. Pregnancy can be a trying time and it's not worth going through if you're going to loose the baby straight away. Better to cancel things before they develop to far and become to complicated than to let it turn into a potential disaster to far down the line.

I am against using abortion as birth control. There are so many contraception methods that abortion really could be a much rarer event.

In cases of rape, incest, the idea of abortion becomes much more defensible. I do not want women to become victims twice, first raped then forced to carry the child.

So I support empowering women with knowlege and support before they start having sex, so that they start in control and stay in control without having to go through something like an abortion. Of course there are conditions where abortions are medically necessary.

But preaching personal responsibility to this generation is like trying to sell health food to high schoolers.

Jimro

But condoms fail, the Pil fails.... Not often,not usually, but now and then it happens.

Abortion is a last resort, should always be a last resort and isn't something to take lightyly. But it's a resort that I don't think it's fair to take away on the grounds that they should of followed the above ones, some people did and still need it...

And don't say that they shouldn't of had sex if they weren't ready, thats breaching an entirely different issue. People do mate, its part of their programming from birth. These things happen, the question is should we install safeguards to make sure these mistakes don't cause further grief?

I am against using abortion as birth control. There are so many contraception methods that abortion really could be a much rarer event.

But preaching personal responsibility to this generation is like trying to sell health food to high schoolers.

Amen. Abortion shouldn't be allowed as birth control. It should be more exclusive, for rape victims and the like.

As Jimro said. Although I despise abortion, there are some cases where it might be carried out.

Rape: although it would be preferable to put the baby up to adoption, I wouldn't make a fuss if she decided to abort.

The only other condition I can think of would be if the mother's life was in danger (as in, she dies if she gives birth).

This is why I believe in abstinence-based sex education, instead of one focused on condoms, birth control, and 'safe sex'.

Acrio: Cycle you silly candy corn.

So Ultra, just curious: What's your stance on women being allowed to vote? Do you think they should, or will it just distract them from their important womanly duties of cooking the meals, cleaning the house, and shooting out a baby every 9 months?

Teach no sex and they'll do it anyway Ultra...

Don't teach sex at all and they'll work it out for themselves, but with more problems, mistakes and embarrisment all around...

Although ideal it just wont work, and you'll draw a line between people with the moral high ground and those who dont conform to those standards. Oh, hang on, thats what we have now, only you'll make it worce.

Deny Abortions and there WILL be women who will try to DIY it with a kitchen knife, there will be much pain, much agony and much much much more death as chances are she'll kill herself as well as the child.

But that is OFF TOPIC.
The question is; is abortion murder? And even if it technically is is it right to deny that last safety barrier and bring a child into the world that can only suffer as a result?

Even the technicalness of it isn't technicaaaaal. How are you murdering something that is not yet aliiiiive. =o

parasite
n.
1 Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
2
a One who habitually takes advantage of the generosity of others without making any useful return.
b One who lives off and flatters the rich; a sycophant.

3 A professional dinner guest, especially in ancient Greece.

Thus an unborn child is a parasite, feeding upon the mother, therefore the mother has the right to get rid off such a parasite if she so wants to.

edit: spelling

So Ultra, just curious: What's your stance on women being allowed to vote? Do you think they should, or will it just distract them from their important womanly duties of cooking the meals, cleaning the house, and shooting out a baby every 9 months?

That made me literally laugh out loud. Saying abortion is wrong in most cases does in no way mean Republicans feel women can't vote or have access to other basic rights. In fact, posts such as this are usually too rediculous to respond to. Next?

1 Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Consider genetic longevity. It's the drive, the instinct, behind all living forms.

And I'm not saying women HAVE to be stuck, jsut use a damn condom or a damn pill. And if it doesn't wrok 100%? Well, there's always surgery before sex. There's some kind of new thing that is totally reversable and prevents babies as well as some health problems. Totally reverseable should you want to have a baby later on. Otherwise, abstain.

My opinion on abortion?

Let the mothers do what they want. I have no right to tell them no if they want to abort their unborn child. I don't think it's right that women should use it as a contraceptive, but like it's been said, condoms and pills are only effective X percent of the time. If the mother doesn't want to have the child, why force her to go through all the pain (both physical and emotional), the financial stress, the medical stuff that goes with having a baby...?

Then there's always the rape issue. If a woman doesn't want to have sex in the first place, I highly doubt she'd want to keep the baby that could possibly come from it. Telling her "no, she can't abort it" would be downright cruel.

If things came to it, I probably wouldn't choose abortion, but that's my personal view. If other women choose it, more power to them. I'm not stopping 'em. It's not my choice.

EDIT:
Well, there's always surgery before sex. There's some kind of new thing that is totally reversable and prevents babies as well as some health problems

Some people might not have enough money to go through what I'm guessing is a rather expensive procedure :3

~Shadowed Spirit Sage

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Saying abortion is wrong in most cases does in no way mean Republicans feel women can't vote or have access to other basic rights.

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This is assuming that all Republicans feel that abortion is wrong, and that a woman's right to choose what to do with her body is not a basic human right like voting, both of which are such wildly innacurate statements that
I couldn't help but laugh a little.

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Well, there's always surgery before sex. There's some kind of new thing that is totally reversable and prevents babies as well as some health problems. Totally reverseable should you want to have a baby later on.

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Now THIS little gem of a paragraph is where I started splitting my sides with laughter. Seriously, do you even know anything about what you're talking about? First of all, many women cannot have said surgery because it would cause complications that would end up killing her.
Second of all, if the surgery is reversed there is a very great chance that the woman's body will reject it and cause massive infections, again killing her.

Of course, my dear SX and Ultra, I have the utmost respect for your disagreement with abortions; and I believe you should both feel free to stand up and express this right by not having an abortion.

I think it's pretty telling that this thread devoted to how evil abortion is was started by a man.

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Teach no sex and they'll do it anyway Ultra...

Don't teach sex at all and they'll work it out for themselves, but with more problems, mistakes and embarrisment all around...

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That's not what I'm saying. Of course teach them about sex. However, it is also important to teach them that having sex before marriage could lead to a whole load of problems that you would be far less likely to experience if you simply waited until after marriage (and thus have a stable financial base to stand on in the form of the spouse). Hence, abstinence until marriage.

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Even the technicalness of it isn't technicaaaaal. How are you murdering something that is not yet aliiiiive. =o

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Silliness.

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So Ultra, just curious: What's your stance on women being allowed to vote? Do you think they should, or will it just distract them from their important womanly duties of cooking the meals, cleaning the house, and shooting out a baby every 9 months?

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PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

Sorry, that was just funny. It just strikes me as funny how you can equate the termination of another human life to being as much as a woman's right as voting. Last I recalled, murder isn't a right. How does terminating an infant creating from living cells not equal murder again? And how would that be a woman's right?

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Thus an unborn child is a parasite, feeding upon the mother, therefore the mother has the right to get rid off such a parasite if she so wants to.

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PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

Sorry, that was just REALLY funny. Especially considering how flat out wrong it is.

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This is assuming that all Republicans feel that abortion is wrong, and that a woman's right to choose what to do with her body is not a basic human right like voting, both of which are such wildly innacurate statements that I couldn't help but laugh a little.

---

Actually, the fetus is not part of her own body. He (or she. Depends on what chromosomes make up the DNA) is an entirely different organism, even if he/she inhabits the womb of a female and depends upon her for nourishment.

And not ALL Republicans are conservative by nature. Just look at Arlen Specter. 😛

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I think it's pretty telling that this thread devoted to how evil abortion is was started by a man.

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I also think it's pretty telling that a good deal of women end up regretting ending an unborn child's life (a little something called PAS or post-abortion syndrome). And considering all I know about abortion and the fetus itself (scroll down to 3; do you consider a fetus to be something other than human?), I would be saying the same things even if I was a woman. But I was born a man, so I wouldn't be sure.

Nevertheless, I was born, when I could have easily been aborted. Same with all of you. Yet you were born anyway.

Would you still say you supported the 'woman's right' to an abortion (mind telling me HOW this is a right again?) if it happened to be you who got sucked out of the womb?

Actually, you couldn't. Cause you'd be dead. Along with the millions of others who were deprived of their right to LIFE.

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a) A parasite is defined as an organism of one species living in or on an organism of another species

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parasite
n.
1 Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
2
a One who habitually takes advantage of the generosity of others without making any useful return.
b One who lives off and flatters the rich; a sycophant.

3 A professional dinner guest, especially in ancient Greece.

---

No they're not.

And that hand thing was ghosts. That or the fact the baby was 5 months along.

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And that hand thing was ghosts. That or the fact the baby was 5 months along.

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Does it really matter? A baby is alive from the moment of conception, because the fetus is created from living genetic material from the mother and the father.

Like sweat glands? o.0

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Like sweat glands? o.0

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...what? You lost me. o.o

They're made from the person's genetic material. Like a baby.

... o.o Are sweat glands their own living creatures now too? Maybe you mean they're alive from the moment of conception since they have their own genetic code.

Like fossils. Or cancer.

Actually, the fetus is not part of her own body. He (or she. Depends on what chromosomes make up the DNA) is an entirely different organism, even if he/she inhabits the womb of a female and depends upon her for nourishment.

It is part of her body until it comes out of her body. And quite frankly, that is a REALLY PAINFUL PROCESS. I haven't had a child yet, I can only imagine how much physical stress it would put on the body and how much it freaking HURTS.

Some women just aren't ready for that. O_o; Why force them through it?

Maybe it's just a personal opinion, but the fetus cannot think for itself, it cannot live on its own, it depends on somebody else for everything until then. If the mother doesn't want to provide the support it needs (or can't, or shouldn't, depending on the situations), again, why force them to needlessly? It would only be a physical, emotional, financial, and medical burden.

So let's say the woman does go through with it and has the child, though she really doesn't want it. She puts it up for adoption? Oh yeah, that's really nice. As if there weren't enough children without good, loving homes and parents who can support them.

I could have easily been aborted as well, but I'm thankful to have come into a home with loving parents who were ready for a child. Some people just aren't ready.

Oh, and I just find it really amusing that I'm the only female that's posted in the thread so far. Just a random thought :3

~Shadowed Spirit Sage

Nevertheless, I was born, when I could have easily been aborted. Same with all of you. Yet you were born anyway.
I was, like you, born into a good life with wealthy, well-educated parents in the finest city in which to live on the face of the planet. My parents don't beat me, they're not on drugs, and they don't have AIDS. I live in a clean, modest house with four walls and a roof. I get three proper meals (and then some) every day. I have a comfortable bed, a couch, a computer, and a high-speed Internet connection. I recently completed twelve years of world-class education, valued at over eighty thousand dollars, for free. If I cut myself and get an infection, the likelihood of my dying from such an injury is incredibly minute because I have immediate access to world-class care, for free. I get twelve hour-long sessions of one-on-one psychiatric therapy per year, for free. I have the right to participate in a democratic process. I have the right to pass freely from one place to the next, to freely associate with others, and to express myself however I see fit.

I wasn't born into an unstable household where abuse was rampant. I wasn't born into a life on the streets, scrounging for food day by day, with parents who'd gladly trade me for a day's cocaine fix. I wasn't born in poverty-stricken Zambia, nor unstable Darfur, nor theistic Saudi Arabia, nor war-ravaged Haiti.

If my mother were a crack-addicted prostitute, living on the streets of downtown Toronto with no money, no home, no food, no bed, and no hope, I'd greatly prefer to not be born. If my mother were on the wrong end of the social system of Zambia, Darfur, Saudi Arabia, or Haiti, I'd greatly prefer not to be born.

As a person, I would gladly choose abortion over a life of suffering.

PS: You should run for office as a Conservative candidate in Canada. You'd fit right in with backwards, right-wing dickheads like Darryl "Humans Coexisted With Thecodontosaurs 3000 Years Ago" Reid and Stockwell "No Two-Tier Health Care As Long As You Don't Have AIDS" Day.

Acrio:

You're missing my point. From a bioligical standpoint, a zygote is alive. The four criteria are:

Growth.
Metabolism.
Reaction to stimuli.
Reproduction.

A zygote qualifies for all four of these.

Tricia:

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I haven't had a child yet, I can only imagine how much physical stress it would put on the body and how much it freaking HURTS.

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Migraines hurt (I should know, I had about five in the span of one month as child. Nearly died.). Deadly diseases can cause infinitely more painful and life-threatening conditions than giving birth. The risk of dying after having an abortion is HIGHER than it would be after miscarriage or childbirth. And of course, there's the great possibility of mental anguish and emotional stress that comes after abortion for a great many deal for women that lingers for a long time.

My point? There are infinitely more painful and longer-lasting pains than childbirth (and more often than not, seeing and holding your child after birth erases that pain. Why else would mothers go for multiple children if they knew what pain awaited them?).

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Some women just aren't ready for that. O_o; Why force them through it?

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As I've pointed out before, the only cases where I would approve of an abortion would be if the child was a result of a rape, or if the mother's life was in danger of dying. If it's a result of consenting intercourse, and she decides not to have the baby if the method of contraception doesn't work, then she shouldn't have had sex to begin with.

Cycle:

And yet you forget that the prostitute could simply put the kid up for adoption. Adoption. Giving the child to a better home. Ring any bells?

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PS: You should run for office as a Conservative candidate in Canada. You'd fit right in with backwards, right-wing dickheads

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Nice insult. What a wonderful way of getting your point across. Not.

Just for the record, you only diminish the impact of your argument by reverting to foul language.

From a bioligical standpoint, a zygote is alive.
From a biological standpoint, my great-uncle's brain tumor is alive. (On a related note, it weighs three and a half pounds and he named it after his ex-wife.)

And yet you forget that the prostitute could simply put the kid up for adoption. Adoption. Giving the child to a better home. Ring any bells?
In North America, there are currently tens of thousands of abandoned children moving in and out of different orphanages and foster homes. The number of children up for adoption at this time far outweighs the number of eligible adopters.

Those who have gone through the foster care system rarely lead productive lives. According to a 1998 study conducted by the University of Wisconsin, after aging out of foster care in the US, 27% of males and 10% of females were incarcerated within 12 to 18 months. 50% were unemployed, 37% had not finished high school, 33% were on welfare, and 19% of females had given birth to children. Before leaving care, 47% were receiving some kind of counseling or medication for mental health problems; that number dropped to 21% after leaving care.

Based on AFCARS estimates released January 2000, there are approximately 520,000 children currently in foster care in the United States. Of these, only 117,000 are eligible for adoption, and only 11,000 were ever adopted.

Relying on adoption to replace birth control would be like relying on private charity to end world hunger.

It's funny. They'll scream for hours about the rights of an embryo thats even less of a sentient being than George Bu, I mean a cow. But they don't give two @#%$ about the horrific state of orphanages, lack of foster parents NOT solely interested in tax breaks, and lets not forget that no kid has ANY rights until they hit 18.

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If it's a result of consenting intercourse, and she decides not to have the baby if the method of contraception doesn't work, then she shouldn't have had sex to begin with.

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Even if they're married? Not every married couple that has sex wants to have kids, or "more" kids. I'm only asking because I'm curious since there's more to the abortion debate than pre-marital sex and many married couples have abortions for various reasons.

Silly Red, everyone knows that the only reason people have sex is to have kids. :3

~Rico

Also, God forbid the male be required to assume any responsibility for his role in the situation. It's totally the woman's fault. The vile temptress shouldn't have seduced the poor, innocent male to begin with. It's not his fault she threw herself upon his phallus.

*snerk*

Of course, then you're going to have a population explosion of orphans, and orphanages would become overcrowded, and there are already more orphans than adoptive parents.

Conditions would become overcrowded, more and more babies will grow up to the point of being too old for respective parents to care about, they'd grow up watching others get adopted while they remain part of a collective, recieving no individual love or attention and becoming increasingly bitter on the matter.

When they turn 18, bamf, into the street alone and unsupported financially or emotionally.

That's what happened to my second step-mum and she was MESSED UP because of it.

I mean I actually asked an orphan about growing up in an orphanage, so maybe that counts for something. Either way it's a horrible life to subject a child to.

Abortion has its worth.

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Ultra Sonic 007 wrote:
Nevertheless, I was born, when I could have easily been aborted.

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Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

I said teach No Sex and they'll do it anyway...

What I meant was that if you teach them NOT to have sex, they WILL do it anyway...

You can't do it... Oh yes, I'm sure some won't, some will follow your orders but there will always be a significant proportion of adolescent teenagers, full of hormones and adrenaline and lust, dieing to discover what these new feelings are...

You can't stop it, not unless you make sex illegal before marriage and trust me, you DONT want to do that. Just imagine how ful the prisons would get

Oh, and one other thing. I also want to know your stance on True Red's point, what about married couples who arent ready to have kids yet? What are they supposed to do?

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Even if they're married? Not every married couple that has sex wants to have kids, or "more" kids.

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Hey, they're married. They're allowed to have sex if they want. However, it should also be noted that the primary purpose of sexual reproduction is (glances at Rico's snarky comment) to reproduce. Enjoyment is secondary. And if a married couple is going to HAVE sex, then they should do so knowing that any form of protection they use could fail. Aborting the child after that is just taking the coward's way out. After all, that's what being a parent is: sacrificing for the child and prepping him/her for their adulthood.

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Also, God forbid the male be required to assume any responsibility for his role in the situation. It's totally the woman's fault. The vile temptress shouldn't have seduced the poor, innocent male to begin with. It's not his fault she threw herself upon his phallus.

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You'd think my constant mention of the 'rape' would cover this.

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But they don't give two @#%$ about the horrific state of orphanages, lack of foster parents NOT solely interested in tax breaks

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(wonders about the quality ratio between private and goverment-run orphanges)

That would be another step: making the alternatives to abortion more attractive, while at the same time making abortion look worse.

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From a biological standpoint, my great-uncle's brain tumor is alive.

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On another related note, the odds of a child killing the mother while still in a womb are substantially lower than a tumor's chances of killing someone are.

Also, children are huggable. Do tumors qualify as huggable? You know the answer. 😛

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Relying on adoption to replace birth control would be like relying on private charity to end world hunger.

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Does it erase the fact that over 757,000,000 children never got the chance to live?

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What I meant was that if you teach them NOT to have sex, they WILL do it anyway...

You can't do it... Oh yes, I'm sure some won't, some will follow your orders but there will always be a significant proportion of adolescent teenagers, full of hormones and adrenaline and lust, dieing to discover what these new feelings are...

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True. Like teenagers who smoke and take drugs even though the know it's bad for you.

I'm not saying to teach them NOT to have sex. However, it would go a long way to let them know the hazards of pre-marital and promiscuous sex.

Does it erase the fact that over 757,000,000 children never got the chance to live?

In this overpopulated world where there aren't enough jobs and homes to go around, is this really a good thing?

and thanks for the insightful comments on my post Ultra!

You'd think my constant mention of the 'rape' would cover this.
I wasn't talking about rape.

Does it erase the fact that over 757,000,000 children never got the chance to live?
Are you even paying attention to my reasoning?

"I would much rather be aborted than have to live a life of abuse, addiction and detachment."
"BUT WOULDN'T YOU RATHER HAVE THE CHANCE TO LIIIVE?!?!!!"

"I would much rather be aborted than have to live a life of abuse, addiction and detachment."
"BUT WOULDN'T YOU RATHER HAVE THE CHANCE TO LIIIVE?!?!!!"

I can see where Ultra's coming from with that. "Better to have the chance of a good life than to have no life at all".

Doesn't change my opinion on abortion though. My final statement in this topic before I abandon the Marble Garden forever again: Leave the mothers alone. It's their decision, nobody else has the right to tell them what to do with their child.

Don't like it? Don't have an abortion, simple as that 😀

~Shadowed Spirit Sage

You know, this would be a great platform for the vegan warriors to side with. If a non-sentient fetish is "alive" and has rights then non-sentient animals are just as "alive" and all the people killing them and processing them for food, hunting them for sport, or hitting them on the highway are guilty of murder and should be thrown in jail.

See what happens when take things to extreme's? It *GASP* will get extreme.

~Rico

Y'know what?

There's tons of cheaper methods to not have a baby than murdering them.

Condoms.

Pills.

Surgery.

Morning-after pills

Abstinence.

And as for Fox News being biased (Discussion n this topic in Chat, it came from abortion-talking. I think it was when Acrio was talking about Creo's parasite post.), watch SeeBS News more.

All of which, save abstinence, are not 100% effective or without bad side effects.

And abstinence? How many people REALLY succeed with that?

~Rico

Denying abortion is just asking for trouble...
And every time you just keep coming back to the fact that 75000 people have never lived...

This isn't science fiction, they arent in a private never world plotting revenge against the people who denied them existance... And if they are, good luck to them, if they have an objection they can tell us themselves rather than channeling their spirit through you Ultra

And I'll repeat, you can list ALL of those ways to make sure you wont have a baby but nothing short of surgery or abstinance is guaranteed. Abstinance is the problem inthe first place and surgery is a NO, some times its irreversble, sometimes it goes wrong and come on...

You're asking HALF of the worlds population to go under the knife because your concerned about the death of a cuddly thing that isn't really alive. You could at least campaign for hamsters or guinea pigs rights...

You can't expect at least one in two of every couple to have themselves cut open, it's peoples choice...

And personally, If you did ban Abortion I would like America to loose it's right to call itself the land of the free. I mean, come on, that is just ONE step to far, someone has GOT to sue congress for false advertising.

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Hey, they're married. They're allowed to have sex if they want. However, it should also be noted that the primary purpose of sexual reproduction is (glances at Rico's snarky comment) to reproduce. Enjoyment is secondary. And if a married couple is going to HAVE sex, then they should do so knowing that any form of protection they use could fail. Aborting the child after that is just taking the coward's way out. After all, that's what being a parent is: sacrificing for the child and prepping him/her for their adulthood.

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So, in effect, you're saying that married couples shouldn't ever have sex if they don't want kids at all--or no more kids. Because the part about parenting doesn't apply as not everyone wants to be a parent nor should everyone be a parent. Some people just don't have the necessary attitude, hence some do whatever it takes to avoid it while others end up being abusive or murdering a kid. Still, it's an interesting comment. Curiosity satisfied.

Oh and let's play nice people. ;p

The trouble is he keeps going on about pre-marital sex... but you're also saying marital sex is banned if your not prepared to sire a kid as well...

So why make a point of having it pre-marital... I know you think enjoyment is sex's primary purpose (okay, fair enough, it is) but we're not the only creature who does it JUST for pure enjoyment, dolphins do it to!!!!

Sex is good for multiple reasons, it's a good destressing agent, it allows people to let out anxiety, feelings, stress and just feel good about themselves and their partner. It helps bring people together, and although It shouldnt neccesarily be the foundation of a partnership it certainly helps to cement one together...

Sex is good for people with nervous anxiety, if they manage to find a partner then it means that they have proof someone in the world likes them.
For thoser that cant it gives them something to aim for, a target to achieve...

Sex is an advertising symbol...

Sex is just fun, even if it's not for everyone...

Although passing on genes may be the most important, ALL of the above are true, and just because their not THE numero uno reason you would deny EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM if you banned abortion.

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So why make a point of having it pre-marital...

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Because that's the way it's presented in the U.S. While there are many cases in which is pre-marital or the underage teenager, there are plenty where it's a married couple having an abortion (usually it's the "we don't want kids" or "we don't want more than ones we already have"), which I feel is very much ignored. So, I'm asking if it's even being considered.

Abortion, like the death penalty, have a bunch of gray areas from a legal standpoint. Based on a religion, these things are more black/white (though people interpret the same religion differently causing other issues), but since the U.S. isn't a theocracy, religious beliefs are not my concern in terms of law--unless the law prevents a person from fulfilling their religious beliefs as that's different.

Bizzaro MoFo am all against abortion. Bizarro Baby am being greatest meal in world, except for Bizarro Acrio who am vegetarian. Maybe we am able to find compramise, MoFo Acrio am get to eat all non-aborted babies. Babies am for dinner, not for Easter!

It am really weird. In Bizarro MoFo abortions am seen as murder and non-white Bizarros killed in war am "casualties" just like Bizarros am steal when non-bizarro am loot.

Am very weird moral code. Am thinking we should be more concerned with Bizarro Nagin rebuilding New Orleans with brick and cement. Am much prefer Chocolate New Orleans.

Well all the anti-sex talk coming from Ultra you'd think he'd be FOR having more gay people around instead of burning them at the stake.

~Rico

I'm just waiting for the day that Ultra is anti-himself...

~This post brought by semi-sobriety, seriousness is to be taken at a seriously reduced value...

Bizarro Ultra, of course, is a hippie who astounds people with his intelligence and wit and wins every argument, hands down.