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Counter-productive to progression in the USA

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(@shoeofallcosmos)
Posts: 133
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 
I need your help, guys.  I have an innocent question that can be easily misconstrued as bigotry, and I'm counting on you not to blindly label me as such.  All I want is some healthy discussion on the subject and perhaps some enlightenment.

First, here is a link to the Wikipedia entry for African American Vernacular English.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English
And here is a link to Bill Cosby's "Pound Cake Speech".   http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Pound_Cake_speech
I get that language is figuratively a living thing, and that we are free to speak however we choose.  I just want to point out out how ridiculous it is to keep alive such a token of oppression and separation (see links), when we're all supposed to be brothers and sisters here.  Of course we should embrace our heritage, but shouldn't we try a little harder to reach out to each other without letting a fake accent get in the way?  I know that it would be silly for some Chinese Americans to imitate a Chinese accent, or myself to imitate a British accent, so why is it acceptable for African Americans to do so?

 
(@tiggerkiddo)
Posts: 520
Honorable Member
 

Color me surprised anyone takes ebonics seriously. It's nearly universally mocked

 
(@shifty)
Posts: 1058
Noble Member
 

I don't know what to mention other than some people relly do talk like that?

"wether we try to avoide it or not we all ate insects."-sonicsfan1991

 
(@trudi-speed)
Posts: 841
Prominent Member
 

As someone from one of the most ethnically diverse cities in England with a south asian population alone of around 40% or so, I can say pretty confidently that accents don't bother me at all. Sometimes the stronger ones are hard to understand, but I don't see them in any way as getting in the way. It's no different really from wearing those brightly coloured clothes than hindus and sikhs sometimes wear. Every accent is a symbol of your heratige and ebonics is no different. And a world with no accents would be boring, in my opinion. Bub speaks in ebonics if i remember right so he's the best for this sort of thing.

What annoys me is when you get people asking me stuff at work only to then talk loudly in one another in another language, because then it seems to me as an english-only speaker that they're deliberately using it so I won't understand. I know that isn't often the case, as I was once working with a girl who understood one of the indian languages who translated that they were pretty much asking one another if they had enough bread to last. But I have my paranoias 🙁

Knowing how terrible "british accents" preformed by americans tend to be, as they tend to be either Queens English, Cockney, or a terrible excuse for Scottish, if you try to preform one yourself I will shoot you. :3

 
(@sonicsfan1991)
Posts: 1656
Noble Member
 

     "I get that language is figuratively a living thing, and that we are free to speak however we choose.  I just want to point out out how ridiculous it is to keep alive such a token of oppression and separation"

well you know sweety some people are proud of speaking that way, just cause it sounds less grand to you doesnt mean it is shameful to them.  
see an accent is history pride and tells you a story of where that person is from. i can tell a lot from people's accents as they can tell what i am from mine. which is a wonderful thing that shouldn't be changed for the sake of keeping history. even if you dont like the african american accent you were refering to, i find it fun and wonderful that a certain area or group of people have the same accent. its not insulting at all, my old language is a lot worse if you want to compare people think i'm a complete savage when i use it but i'm proud of it and wont change it to fit an image. i think a lot of people agree with me personal pride is more important than trying to impress people.

   "What annoys me is when you get people asking me stuff at work only to then talk loudly in one another in another language, because then it seems to me as an english-only speaker that they're deliberately using it so I won't understand"

people love to show off honey, saddly i get like that too XD

     "Knowing how terrible "british accents" preformed by americans tend to be, as they tend to be either Queens English, Cockney, or a terrible excuse for Scottish, if you try to preform one yourself I will shoot you. :3 "

lots of people were able to grasp languages with its native accent, so dont worry not all non native speakers will insult an accent.

 
(@mista-bubonic)
Posts: 217
Reputable Member
 

Well I'm a Social Science major and I took a course in the study of Language last semester. Had to make a video about my language story which I put up on Youtube and took off. I spoke about the way I speak English, ebonics. N-word for man, b-word for woman, etc.. African American w/e is just a name given because it bothers the bourgeois African American community... Like Al Sharpton and we all know how full of it he is.. Topic is irrelevant. Can't nobody stop me from how I talk, idc if it bothers you.. I only drop it when I go to a job interview or something, I also get called the n-word a lot when on Xbox Live. =/

 
(@veckums)
Posts: 1758
Noble Member
 

Language is whatever is understood by those communicating.  Ebonics is associated with disadvantaged people, especially those who exhibit negative traits, so some people read stereotypes into those who use it.  The closest parallel would be those who talk like rednecks.  Ebonics is not wrong in itself, it just happens to be used by an unpopular subculture.

Cosby's speech could be called quasi-racist, but it's more about a subculture of blacks than blacks in general.  So it's equivalent to a white person criticizing rednecks.  Criticizing either subculture is equally acceptable regardless of what race you are, in my opinion.  It's just a lot easier to get away with it in public view if you are that race.

He's wrong in that his speech targets blacks specifically, rather than poverty.  I suspect that if you sorted statistics by race and class, socioeconomic class would stand out as the most significant variable.

 
(@mista-bubonic)
Posts: 217
Reputable Member
 

Ebonics is associated with disadvantaged people, especially those who
exhibit negative traits, so some people read stereotypes into those who
use it.  The closest parallel would be those who talk like rednecks. 
Ebonics is not wrong in itself, it just happens to be used by an
unpopular subculture.

I disagree, I don't feel that Ebonics is used by an unpopular subculture. Here in America you can hear Ebonics almost anywhere in movies, in music, and on T.V.. This dialect is probably one of the best recognized by people because it is used by a variety of people, not just Blacks or a certain subculture. Whites, Latinos, Asians  use Ebonics as well.. Blacks have been an underclass for so long that their dialect has been associated  with the language of the poor man. People who associate themselves with the poor or lower middle class will also associate themselves with the most widely used dialect of their language; though words and pronunciation vary by area. While I feel that Ebonics is popular it is frowned upon. The people who control the means of production, the people in charge of the higher institutions of society frown upon the use of the lower dialect and condemn it. Since they take charge of society it becomes a common custom to frown upon anything lower. Ex. Haitian Creole and French.

I didn't read Cosby's speech, however as I've said before the only people bothered by the use of Ebonics and ways of the lower classes are people of the upper middle class or bourgeois. Race isn't the issue, it is socioeconomic status.

 
(@shoeofallcosmos)
Posts: 133
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Movies, music, and TV are not real life, just pointing that out.

I'm specifically talking about AAVE in the USA, although I am wondering why it's a worldwide phenomenon also. But anyhow, in the states, there are all the leftover issues that were brought about by slavery, and that affects connotations surrounding AAVE.

AAVE is not really like the redneck drawl. AAVE is spoken all over, no matter where people are from and what beliefs they have. It seems that skin color dictates the choice to speak the accent. The redneck drawl, on the other hand, is regional. There are also people with the same values across the country that speak in a totally different way.

If AAVE is associated with class rather than race, then 1) why does it appear in all classes, and 2) why speak in a manner of the disadvantaged at all anyway? There's no way I would fake a redneck accent.

And 3) If AAVE is something to be proud of, then why drop it when you go to a job interview?

 
(@sonicsfan1991)
Posts: 1656
Noble Member
 

If AAVE is associated with class rather than race, then 1) why does it appear in all classes, and 2) why speak in a manner of the disadvantaged at all anyway? There's no way I would fake a redneck accent.

And 3) If AAVE is something to be proud of, then why drop it when you go to a job interview?

as for why drop it for job interviews, that's cause people are butt kissing for a job. life's hard you need to please people sometimes to get what you need. 
but they wont do it all the time they wont hide the way they talk just cause others arent comfortable with it. its too mean to ask that of others.

if you want to understand it better, it has something to do with love. you love your mother right? well if your mother talked a certain way wont you copy her? and that's how it happens through out the years. it becomes special to talk a certain way and no one will make them stop no matter how it sounds. its mean to make fun of the accent that they love.
 

 
(@mista-bubonic)
Posts: 217
Reputable Member
 

I'm specifically talking about AAVE in the USA

Isn't AAVE the only place where it is spoken? I mean it's called African American Vernacular English...

it's a worldwide phenomenon also

If so how come most of my British compatriots who visit this board do not understand a damned thing I say? If it is used by someone out of this country it was carried there by the media. (Music, movies, etc...) I doubt there are people if any who grew up in Britain speaking in Ebonics in the 1970's.

But anyhow, in the states, there are all the leftover issues that were
brought about by slavery, and that affects connotations surrounding
AAVE.

Of course the N-word is a prime example. Though it is being used a lot by people of all races there are still some Blacks that are appalled by its use, there are others that feel only blacks should say it.

AAVE is spoken all over, no matter where people are from and what beliefs
they have.

If it is spoken all over how come I cannot be understood by most people when I'm out of state? From my experience it is spoken by people who choose to associate themselves with the 'lower classes' urban class or whatever you choose to call it, regardless of skin color. Eminem is white, however whenever he speaks he uses African American Vernacular English. President Obama on the other hand though half white but considers himself to be black, does not speak with an Ebonic (Don't feel like typing AAVE) accent. A Caucasian man who was brought up into lower middle income class, as compared to Obama from the upper middle class or perhaps high class.

It seems that skin color dictates the choice to speak the accent.

And what choice is this? I'm light skinned, most of my family is light skinned. When most of us speak we speak in Ebonics. When you grow up around people who speak a certain language, you will grow to speak that language.

1) why does it appear in all classes

Can you give me any examples? I've never seen an upper class man speak in Ebonics, not to my knowledge.

2) why speak in a manner of the disadvantaged at all anyway?

Clarify, are you suggesting that it is a disadvantage to speak this way? Or are you referring as to what I said before about relating to the lower class? The reason as to why someone would speak this was is because it gives a person self-identity. The way a person dresses is another prime example.

3) If AAVE is something to be proud of, then why drop it when you go to a job interview?

As I've said before it is frowned upon to speak this way because it is the language of the lower classes. It is considered unprofessional and informal. Would you like to interview someone who slaps you a five and greets you with "What's good my n-word?"


 
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