Man, do some research next time.

Seriously, if you're going to make a topic on a subject like this, why not at least try to make an effort to make it seem like you know what you're on about?(And by make an effort, I don't mean watch an episode of South Park.)

EDIT: Just to clarify, since you usually start crying whenever I look at you because you've got a persecution complex the size of Jupiter, this reply is not specifically targeting you in any way. This is merely a response to a poorly-thought out topic made with no regard as to who posted it, 'Kay?

I can't say I know what they are looking for ,really. Maybe they fell that if the world in general is full of evil, which it is, then maybe evil acts or the worship of evil figures is the way to go. In these times, there seems to be alot more stuff to blame on some evil deity (I won't use Satan because thats a Christian term and I want this to apply to everyone.) than on a good one. Maybe, in their eyes, power is what deserves worship. Since obviously there seems to be a greater display of negative power,(even "acts of God" like hurricanes seem more like acts of evil than divine light) then whoever or whatever controls this evil deservse the credit, if there is any higher power.

UNGH.

SATANISM. IS. NOT. DEVIL. WORSHIP.

Quoth Wikipedia:

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God in Satanism

The Satanist does not believe in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic idea of God; the function of God is performed and satisfied by the Satanist him/herself. That is, the needs of worship, ritual, and religious/spiritual focus are directed, effectively, inwards towards the Satanist, as opposed to outwards, towards God.

LaVey proposes instead that as all gods are creations of man, worship of an external deity is worship of its creator by proxy. He suggests, then, that the rational Satanist should instead internalize his god, and therefore worship himself; hence the Satanic maxim, "I am my own god."

It follows that Satanism shuns the idea of belief in all other deities as well, including, to the surprise of many, Satan. Satan is viewed as a literary archetype, along the lines of John Milton's epic hero. This archetype is viewed not as a negative figure, but as a positive image of pride and mastery in opposition to servitude, faith, and humility.

Belief in any such externalized deities is generally considered grounds for excluding someone as a Satanist, and devil worship in particular is considered nothing more than a misguided inversion of Christianity.

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Fine. I'll edit the title. But Christianity= honor Christ. Buddisim= honor Budda. So naturally I would assume Satanism= honor Satan.

Can we please get back on subject?

We were on topic until you changed the title.

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So naturally I would assume

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Well, you know what they say, Veetwo old salt: When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.

They practice it because there are evil people out there. Little dwarf people who live underground and make delicious girlscout cookies, the fatty yet delicious kind you can't stop eating even though you told yourself you would. They have fangs and their hats are made out of solidified goats blood. I even hear they're the cause of termites.

Now, I'm no expert, but if you live underground without any light, you're going to get pretty freaked out and crazy. Like if you've ever been in a windowless room. The walls, they surround you, and they close on you, and your sanity inflates and tries to hold them back, but the walls are too strong for it, and it shrinks, and it's just you and your little insane head bouncing back and forth across the room. Have you ever felt that? I sure have. These guys do too, but multiply it by the weight of a steroid-induced hippo.

Satanism exists because the dwarfs want it to. They were rejected from hell because Satan saw them as inferior, due to their size. He's such a big meanie like that. At first, they were put to work by moving the smaller burning hot coals from one pile to the other. They were tired of it, so they started bustin' out. Some of them on gnarly motorcycles, like Ghost Rider. They were attempted to be subdued by the minions of hell, but their little dwarf bodies always managed to squirm away. Since it's so hot down there, things can get pretty sweaty. And sweat can make a great natural lubricant.

So they're all chillin down in their pad. You know, chillin' out, maxin', relaxin' all cool. They think "Hey, we're a bunch of big evil dudes, we'll prove our worth to Satan by controlling the minds of other evil dudes." "But boss, we're actually rather small." "Shut up, Charlie."

So they started their little cult using satellites to beam holographic messages to people around the world. The evilest dudes around now have a religion to call their own. You know, the crazy dudes who wear leather jackets and carry chains. Others don't leave the house and be evil inside and pester their parents for eyeshadow money. They can also be vampires. The dwarfs saw this and decided they all should unite into one, happy, Satan-praising family. There was also word on a Church of Satan Sing-Along VHS, but publishers never picked it up.

they worship him by leaving jelly donuts under a box with a stick holding it up. Maybe, just maybe, Satan will come up from hell and try to get the donut. You know, he'll sniff it out first, see if it's okay and not poisoned, or even worse - stale. Satan will scoot under the box, and the Satanist would pull the string holding the stick up, and Satan will be caught! From there, they'll tie him down and tickle his feet so they can feel his demonic laugh cause a world-wide earthquake. It's a great thing to do when you're drunk with Satan at a frat party. But anyway, after the tickling, they'll sit around and drink alcohol and watch A-Team reruns and talk about life. The party really kicks in when the Rice Krispy treats are busted out.

What they look for is peace. Peace from the verbal praisers of those such as Jesus, and Allah, and Chuck Norris. They realize they're not accepted in this world. But they accept eachother. And that's all that really matters. Acceptance brings the world together. There's a lesson there to be learned, kids. A lesson to be taught from generation to generation. And maybe, just maybe, the entire world will join hands and sing in peace and harmony.

Thanks for reading. Share the love with one another.

**poofles into the night**

Wonder, my reply was simply one to the question he had posed. Since obviously he had used the wrong wording, I had replyed to what he had meant to say. I am aware Satanism is not a worship of "Satan", but that is what he had asked about.

Gwah-ha, Rabid, you crazy nutter.

Buddisim= honor Budda.
Not true. I'll elaborate later, when I'm not drunk.

Also, Rabid, that was frigging awesome.

I was going to do my no religion looks for peace rant. But because of the awesomeness of Rabid's post, I won't. I'll just:

"LAWZ"

~Rawrco

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Also, Rabid, that was frigging awesome.

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Any religious question tells us two things.

1. The familiarity of the questioner on the subject.
2. Some idea of the moral/religious upbringing of the questioner.

The starter of this thread, SonicV2, is obviously unfamiliar with Satanism. To remedy this, read "The Satanic Bible", it won't kill you or damn your soul. But it will help you understand Satanism.

As to the second point, try to disregard your own beliefs when learning about the beliefs of others. It is hard to set aside one's moral upbringing, but you can't understand someone else's moral system until you do.

I am not asking you to do anything I haven't done. I have read "The Satanic Bible" and I always do my best to understand someones beliefs from their point of view.

However, most Satanists I've met practice it because they don't want to be "Christian Hypocrites". After all, Satanism isn't hypocritical, it is based on self fulfillment, not on self denial.

Jimro

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After all, Satanism isn't hypocritical, it is based on self fulfillment, not on self denial.

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Well, I've known someone that checked it out once, and they sacrificed a puppy to their 'lord.'
That and a few too many cases of human ritual sacrifice I've read about.

Abusing or killing small animals is a sign of a mental health problem.

As far as human sacrifices are concerned, I've read a few accounts as well, but they read like propaganda to me, not serious reporting. When a case of human sacrifice is taken to court (murder) then I'll stop some of the skepticism and start believing.

Jimro

God I'm getting sick of doing other people's work for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Satan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

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"Satan" is appropriated as a positive symbol of this worldview, an archetype or the ultimate symbol of the self and egotism. LaVey explains that Satan is only a symbol in an interview with Washington Post magazine.

"Satan is a symbol, nothing more," LaVey says. "Satan signifies our love of the worldly and our rejection of the pallid, ineffectual image of Christ on the cross."

Also of note is that the Church of Satan does not officially endorse any political philosophy, party, or candidates. Individual members are free to hold any political philosophy, participate (or not) in politics any way they see fit, and vote or refrain without pressure from the Church of Satan. Individual members often hold very strong political opinions, but the Church of Satan itself is apolitical.
...
The Church of Satan does not have or desire tax-exempt status, though they are eligible. As part of what it refers to as Pentagonal Revisionism the Church of Satan is actively working towards taxation of all churches, and tries to put forth a policy of "responsibility to the responsible". It neither solicits membership nor offers a set course of degrees.

The Church of Satan also strongly supports law and order. Church of Satan members can be found in the armed forces of several nations, as well as law enforcement positions. Illegal activity by members is absolutely not tolerated, and criminals are universally condemned; the Church of Satan is very vocal in announcing its desire to see all criminals brought to swift and appropriate justice. The Church of Satan does not hesitate to expel members for engaging in illegal activity, as well as cooperating with law enforcement to bring them to justice.
...
Satanism is often mistaken as being a religion that encourages cruelty and irresponsible behaviour, but LaVey's brand is very different. Central is the idea inherited from Nietzsche that an individual must enforce his own meaning on life and rise above the perceived conformity of the masses. The Satanist is seen as equivalent to Nietzsche's bermensch; LaVey claimed "Satanists are born, not made" and that "[Satanists] have a disease called independence that needs to be recognised just like alcoholism." There is a libertarian element here; diversity is encouraged, everyone is expected to discover their own sexuality, chart their own personality, and decide their own ambitions in life. In this stress on individuality, Satanism is considered a "Left-Hand Path" religion.
...
"Satan" is appropriated as a positive symbol of this worldview, an archetype or the ultimate symbol of the self and egotism. LaVey explains that Satan is only a symbol in an interview with Washington Post magazine.

"Satan is a symbol, nothing more," LaVey says. "Satan signifies our love of the worldly and our rejection of the pallid, ineffectual image of Christ on the cross."

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Wow, how little I knew. ENCOURAGE individuality? Not try to use God as an excuse not to pay taxes? COOPERATE with police instead of hiding behind the Priest confidentiality? And oh god, whats this? They don't shun people based on race or sexuality?

God, if the other religion knew all that they'd probably hate them worse than they already do.

~Tansoytat'samox

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Abusing or killing small animals is a sign of a mental health problem.

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Even if it was substantial amount of people? I just think that there are purely, well, EVIL people out there. I mean, this wasn't one or two, this was a group, convinced that this sacrifice was going to get them favor from Satan.

You're not condemning the whole mythos because of what a dozen people decided to do... right?

~Rico

Also, Rabid, that was frigging awesome.

Fifthed, here.

*pops out of the topic*

Sacrificing animals to earn favor with a diety has a long history even in Christian theology. After all Jesus died to be the ultimate Sin Sacrifice, our passover lamb.

If somebody is sacrificing puppies to Satan it's not because of "official Satanist doctrine". And once again I point out that killing or abusing small animals is a sign of a mental health issue.

Anyways, if your friend is killing puppies, you should probably find new friends.

Jimro

Talking about persecution complexes, I think calling your philosophy Satanism (or yourself a witch) is just baiting. How about we start a club for promotion of high employment rates, Hitlerism? What? Hitler is just a symbol... of high employment rates.

Oh when will you anti-Hitlerism people stop offending our peaceful movement?

Oh when will you anti-Hitlerism people stop offending our peaceful movement?

When you anti-Satanist people quit trying to burn us at the stake, that's when!

Heaven forbid the Christians bait anyone. *giggle*

~Rico

Satan is no match for the great old ones!
CTHULHU WILL BURN YOUR CITIES!
FOOLISH MORTALS YOU WORSHIP FALSE GODS WHEN THE GREAT BEYOND IS THERE TO WORSHIP!
I HOPE THAT NYARLATHOTEHP HAS MERCY UPON YOUR SOUL!
FREDDY AND JASON WILL START THE SLAUGHTER UPON YOUR PATHETIC PLANET TERRA!
BILL GATES AND THE ARMIES OF MICROSOFT CHRISTIANITY ISLAM JUDAISM SATANISM AND ALL YOUR FALSE RELIGONS!
AND WHEN YOUR CITIES ARE BURNED AND THE SKY GOES RED WITH THE BLOOD OF YOUR FIRSTBORN YOUR WORLD SHALL BE DEVOURED!
AND DESTRUCTION WILL FALL UPON YOUR WORLD THAT CAN ONLY BE IMAGINED IN THE MOST TERRIBLE PHANTASMS OF THE ETERNAL TWILIGHT!
YOUR EXISTENCE SHALL BE REDUCED TO DUST!
HAVE A NICE DAY!!!

I had a huge post...and then I pressed the wrong button and it all erased.
Yes, Satanism in the modern sense, goes back to the 1950s and is what most Liberals (I don't use the term Non-Christians because that isn't true...just like saying only Christians are Conservative) might call it a religion with good morals. However there cannot be any doubt that the word Satan comes from the Bible. The concept has been around for thousands of years. Just like there have been millions upon millions of people throughout history who have worshipped Satan or devils...and I mean worshipping the literal idea of Satan....not being a Wiccan and thinking you worship your own personal Goddess (that is what it used to be for me when I was a Wiccan so I don't want any of "That is not true." because it was real for me) and really worshipping Satan. Satan is a figure of evil whether you believe he exists or not. People can worship him without sacrificing a puppy. That really won't accomplish what he tries to do. He tries to break down the Christian religion. It is that simple. That is what a worshipper of Satam does. THAT is what Sonic V2 was refering to. Even though I personally believe Satanism is wrong...it is a different religion/idea/thing then Devil-Worship. That is because Devil-Worship is based on the Devil existing to be there to worship. Satanism does not support that ideal.
As for you question Sonic V2- People do evil things because the enemy puts those ideas in their mind. It is not as outright as you may think. They do not hear voices, they do not hear "Kill, kill, kill!". Every person on this Earth hears him...to a different degree of course because those who have not heard of the Lord/Jesus will go to Heaven...so the enemy is not worried about them. The enemy only instills bad thoughts/ideas based on whether is will fullfill his purposes...which is anything against Biblical teachings. Those who accept the Devil as Lord, obviously will do more evil. Even if they don't worship the Lord or anything...their evil is the Devil.

Personally whether its Satanists breaking apart Christianity or Christians treating muslims and gays (and satanists) like crap. They're ALL wrong. :p

~Rico

Rico, your shade is broken. Bring it back. Also:

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They're ALL wrong.

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Exactly.

Although perhaps the classification of Satanism into a religion isn't quite accurate. The fundamental thing that God abhors in Lucifer is the fact that he had enough self-respect to put himself beyond God. He's the little voice in your heart that says, "Go on, give the universe the finger. You can do it." He's the symbol of anyone who's ever had the balls to challenge authority, or the established order of things. Rightness or wrongness doesn't even come into it - what matters is the willingness. The ego. In that sense, one could say that Satanism is a rejection of the popular concept of religion with its attendant judgemental/vengeful father etc. Sort of like angry Atheism with a warped sense of style.

Isiah 14:12-14 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'"

I have never actually seen quite that perspective Pundit. One interesting thing that I have been taught is that all in all we live to do the Lord's work. We worship Him and love Him, not Christianity. So I agree that using the term religion is not acurate, it depends on the person.

However, the Devil isn't the only one to challenge the order of things. Take a look at Matthew Chapter 12 1-12 & Matthew 15:1-14

Generally, all through-out the Bible, people will challenge the way of things for the Lord. The Devil does it for his own work. The Devil is notably called "the liar" (John 8:44). In (Mark 8:33) Jesus says that Satan has not the things of God in mind but the things of man. The entire book of Job shows that when Job had faith in God even when the Devil challenged it, he got thrice-fold what he had before and he was very happy afterwards. The Devil had people come to challenge God and what Job had faith in. If Job had of went along with man, he never would have been given gifts from the Lord and never would have received his praise. But as along as you have scripture and the Lord behind you, you can challenge anyone or anything. I therefore, feel that rightness and wrongness does come into the picture. Especially if you do things withe the Devil in mind, even if you feel he is merely a symbol of your right to stand up to authority/ideals/whatever.

Yay! I like debating!

Edit: Sorry for making it too long.

Punny, they update and didn't exclude my section. Had to reupload.

And yeah, thats the way it seems. The term religion with people like be has just as bad of a connotation as the term cult or mythos with religious people.

And Missy? Fix your post. And don't cite biblical texts, and paraphrase them for poor Rico and his eye condition. You see, bible verses make my eyes glaze over like frosted Krispee Kreme doughnuts.

~Rico

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But as along as you have scripture and the Lord behind you, you can challenge anyone or anything.

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Verily I say to you that I don't have the Lord behind me but I still feel like challenging this.

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I therefore, feel that rightness and wrongness does come into the picture.

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So then, is it right because God said so? Or is it right because you think God said so?

You talk about doing things with the Devil in mind, but it doesn't work like that. I would say a Satanist doesn't care about winning the devil's approval or being the devil's best buddy. What's more important to aforementioned Satanist then, is doing what seems appropriate, and doing it as hard as possible. So the rejection of the conventional God/devil duality allows the Satanist to abandon objective notions of right and wrong.

So then, is it right because God said so? Or is it right because you think God said so?

Or even did God say it is so because it is right?

Why should we take what God says to be what is right anyway? After all, he's saying Satan is evil based on Satan not doing what God wanted him to (supposedly - after all, God's omnipotent and omniscient, so would have known what Satan would do and could have acted to prevent it). Yet I imagine that Satan would level similar charges against God given the chance. They'd probably both claim that the other is a deceiver, but how do we know which one to trust?

I guess I'd just look for something more than "This powerful being says that this is right, so it is right" as my justification for what is or isn't right.

It is the same withing when it comes to scientist's theories on things such as "The Big Bang". They all have different theories on how it worked/came about. There is no way to prove one scientist's theory over another educated scientist's theory. In that case it all comes down to your faith in the scientist you respect and that he/she is right.

The Lord says he is right but throughout the Bible he gives proof through working miracles in the lives of regular and people of power/importance. But one major proof was Jesus and his entire life. Jesus worked miracles all over. Even today there are miracles in the lives of people. I see it in my church, conventions that I go to, stories from other people etc. Many people see miracles happen. It comes down to faith. I see truths in what the Lord says, does and is. So when the Lord says that the Devil is evil, I believe it.

But it is not out of blind faith. I have not been a Christian all of my life and I had the Devil work bad things in my life. I am not the only person that has happened to. It happens all around us. The Devil seeks to do bad, The Lord good. Life working for Satan always seems good at first but never ends that way, it always goes down-hill fast. God has said what we should do in life, but also speaks to the individual and says what their calling in life does. His work is for the over-all plan, your own well-being and what will ultimately make you happy, as well as to strengthen others (among things). The Devil's work is to go against that. You can't worship the Devil and be happy in the long run...even if what you are doing seems very right.

As much as Satanists aren't worshipping the Devil, Satan stills gets to them...because they are not doing the work of the Lord. I realize that they do not worship the Devil. They don't have to in order for them to be susceptible to the Devil's word. Everybody is able to hear the Devil, it is how you act upon it, as opposed to what you know the Lord wants you to do. What you have to realize is that sin is all the same in the eyes of the Lord. If you pray for forgiveness, He will give it to you (if you mean it). It becomes a big problem when there are alot of sins. Typically in the Bible when God really dislikes something that is going down, it is when there are many sins. So it depends on the person sinning, and where their heart is with the Lord. I have read the entire article on the Satanic Bible written by those at Wikipedia and I can say that it goes against everything The Lord stands for. It seems very much like something the Devil would infuse into the heart of the writer (LaVey). By following those principles, the Satanist sins...especially if they have read the book and acknowledged the ideals as fact and live it in their daily lives. However if somebody is just starting the ideals of Satanism, more just trying it out...they may not have sinned as many times. It is hard to judge because it is usually in a case by case basis as no two people are alike (and it is really not for us to judge each other's sins but up to the Lord.)

I could have more to say but I will let the other's respond.

My response is double lines between paragraphs.

(I'm not saying this to be mean, just to suggest a more readable style in an entertaining manner.

About your post, ultimately any perception of the world that states anything as fact requires bias and interpretation, or faith, which is why I tend to consider little beyond abstract concepts provable to an absolute degree. For example, math is an abstract concept, so you can prove by its rules that 2 + 2 = 4. But whether that model represents reality requires belief in perceptions and measurements, or that reality exists.

This does not however make every belief comparable. I have a lot more trust in theories proven to a relative degree by evidence and experimentation than philosophies backed up by a person's socialized preconceptions, or a cultural point of view.)

This quote is a bit flip but i'm going to use it anyway: "The Bible did not arrive by fax from heaven." What you acknowledge as the core of the New Testament was selected from a multitude of different accounts after an incredibly long and involved scholarly debate (Constantine might have presided over it, but he certainly didn't have everything to do with it). The truth is that man had as much to do with the Bible as God did - perhaps much more.

So when you're thinking about faith, and accepting wholeheartedly that the Bible is God's Truth, please know that there is no holy writ in science. The whole point of science is that it's an iterative process. Theory gets overthrown by theory. As soon as something is found that describes stuff better, it gets adopted and the old theory is discarded. If there is any faith at all, it is faith in the _process_.

I understand that you prefer to partition the world into people who do God's work and people who don't, but that's fine. What can I say to something as simple as that?

According to most approaches to scientific method I know, science isn't about proving a theory to be correct, more about seeing whether a theory is not obviously incorrect. At present, the Big Bang theory matches the currently observed behaviour of the universe, and has been successful in predicting certain details, and so has been successful to that extent, and suits the purpose of a scientific model on which to base further theories.

On the argument that Jesus demonstrated God's power through miracles and teachings, while I'm not saying that you should not believe these, I wonder why you believe the stories of Jesus more than other miracle workers reported to exist around a similar time to Jesus (one of the most famous I can think of now would be Hoki the Rain Maker)? Given that Satan is as powerful as most theology I've been exposed to would suggest, as Satan can cause miraculous-seeming events, why do you believe that God was the one causing the "miracles" - seems to me a pretty good way of duping potential believers...

Then, of course, there's the whole tension between Jews, Muslims and Christians as to whose version of God, and hence how he should be worshipped, or what his commandments are,is the right one - given each claim that they worship the "one true God", and have scriptural evidence filled with miracles and teachings to back them up (OK, so the Koran maybe isn't so big on the miracles, but it's writing is claimed to be a miracle, so that should do).

I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong. I'm suggesting looking beyond the scriptures and teachings, and asking what you believe to be right inherently - not just what God says is right. Or is there no inherent "right", only what the most wise/powerful/respected being around says is "right"?

A few years ago I used to be very much not a Christian but when a friend dragged me to church after years of trying, I became a Christian. I feel that way because of how God made me feel as opposed to anything I had ever felt. I didn't really read the Bible until a year or so after I became a Christian...partly because I wasn't sure about it. At that point I still believed in many scienfic theories (such as the Universe being billions of years old, evolution etc.) However I came across a organisation called Answers in Genesis that gave me answers that made SO much sense to me. It gave me answers as to how the very fundemental things in the Bible would make sense, like telling me how the universe can be young etc. Knowing answers like that made it so I can read the Bible without feeling there are errors. Along with what I experiance in my life even when I go extended periods of not reading the Bible out of laziness (my weakness, aside from )

I do keep my eyes open for miracles made by the Devil. If I have doubts I pray.

"Then, of course, there's the whole tension between Jews, Muslims and Christians....."

Oh gosh, I could talk on that for hours...my husband and I did one time (I forget why though). To make it really short, unless they believe that Jesus was sent to Earth to die for our sins then it isn't right (sorry that that sounded so mean but I can't think of a nice way to put it because my mind is turning to mush). I am not familliar with the Koran so I can't comment, though I should read it some time. Many of the religions alike to Christianity but still different have many of the same scriptures and are actually not far from believing Jesus died for our sins...in essence. This is what I believe. I have to read up on the matter more though.

As for the Bible potentially being wrong. It basicly promises great smitings for those that mess with the Bible. The end of Revelations words it better. I believe it, though something I have mulled over before. At a youth convention one time they addressed this problem...shortly after I was thinking about it...and said if you ever have a problem with something that the Bible says, pray. Man has had their hands on alot of texts over the years, I can never really be sure to myself what is exargeratted and what is not (though half of history doesn't matter to me right now).