Debates are fun, but humor isnt neccessarily a bad thing, even when in a serious environment. Although I do question why this forum is so quiet... what, 6 threads now?

The reason debates fail in this forum is because of all the previous drama that existed in the Marble Garden Zone, people mostly see it as LUL DRAMA and so when someone tries to get something serious going, most of the time people will either entirely agree with one another and cause no growth or discussion, or just snipe in a quick joke with nothing more to add.

It also doesn't help that the Mobius Forum no longer has a polorized audience or some nigh on trolls with ungodly devotion to silly ideals. Most of the ones who remain know the left slant of the forum is too strong to do battle with and it's generally seen as a waste of time. So in other words, we don't debate because it's always one sided.

Someone will reply to that and say "I disagee" as a joke.

It's pretty hard to debate when everyone already agrees. XD I see it more as a forum for touchy subjects where a debate could possibly spring up.

It's pretty hard to debate when everyone already agrees. XD I see it more as a forum for touchy subjects where a debate could possibly spring up.

i think people fear their image being ruined here and so agree with the popular opinion so not to get burned.  i dont think debaters should worry about being looked down on or losing their popularity for choosing the less appreciated opinion, this is your brain support and defened it, even if you're alone you might just be right.

"So in other words, we don't debate because it's always one sided" 

we're all from different backgrounds, countries and religions. its impossible for us to agree all the time, so the one sided debate means others arent speaking their opinion honestly. i'm sorry to say that i wanted to add more to the fetish thread but i actually edited my opinion so much it became hallow and fake. i'm not afraid to speak my mind but i do fear causing a fight. i think its sad we have to sugar coat our thinking. 
i will most likely be an opposing debater in a lot of disscusions since i'm the one with the least common background with the rest. but calling me "childish" insults my entire race, if you cant tolerate my unusal thinking you wont hope to tolerate others world wide.  and that's not just me, a lot of people will be different in thinking because of the enviroment we were in. just remember the world is bigger than your neighborhood and family, and there's people who didnt go to the school you did or read the books you did, so their minds will surprise you.

but dont hate diversity or disrespect it, cause i seen what happens when people dont enlighting themselves with new ideas, they grow hateful and untolerable to change and eventually isolate themselves. 

"The reason debates fail in this forum is because of all the previous drama that existed in the Marble Garden Zone, people mostly see it as LUL DRAMA"

i do sense there's a past about it, i feel like people are asleep here. forget what happened in the past, maybe it was unpleasent to debate then because of certain elements that dont exisit now.
i know when people hear the word "debate" an image of a hostile argument comes to mind. people might do that, its no reason to fear debating though, just look at politicians they're rich and smart but argue in an uncivilized manner. yet the debate goes on and is cooled down with logic. that's the power of reasoning. it would be neat to see someone use that power in here. 

and i have to say this THIS IS A FORUM which means a place for discussion, dont be afraid to post. this is what this site is for.

The reason debates fail in this forum is because of all the previous drama that existed in the Marble Garden Zone, people mostly see it as LUL DRAMA and so when someone tries to get something serious going, most of the time people will either entirely agree with one another and cause no growth or discussion, or just snipe in a quick joke with nothing more to add.

It also doesn't help that the Mobius Forum no longer has a polorized audience or some nigh on trolls with ungodly devotion to silly ideals. Most of the ones who remain know the left slant of the forum is too strong to do battle with and it's generally seen as a waste of time. So in other words, we don't debate because it's always one sided.

Someone will reply to that and say "I disagee" as a joke.

Just a thought to expand on this, the polarization of the earlier debating members being so extreme may also have caused debate to be stifled just because it puts people off when they feel like their points are being dismissed out of hand or ignored totally by the rest of the group. Without any engaging of the other side, or seeing any chance of getting any arguments reasoned against or accepted as valid, it effectively ends up as "I think this for this reason" followed by "I think this for this other reason" with no real interaction between the two sides.

Equally, I guess some may have felt intimidated by some of the more aggressive debating, or felt out of depth on a topic - for example, the "fetishes" thread has more or less died after a call for psychological data/recognised psychological theory, which is certainly beyond my realm of expertise (more philosophical background), and seems to not have been picked up by any other forumer.

That and everyone agreeing doesn't lead to any debate - but I don't think that should force someone to play devil's advocate for the sake of a debate.

Equally, I guess some may have felt intimidated by some of the more aggressive debating, or felt out of depth on a topic - for example, the "fetishes" thread has more or less died after a call for psychological data/recognised psychological theory, which is certainly beyond my realm of expertise (more philosophical background), and seems to not have been picked up by any other forumer.

that's a good point, i dont really know what killed the fetish topic (which should've been an interesting debating topic) even though there were a lot of discussion points i wanted  to debate about like, is having a fetish for the underaged was really a fetish since it was accepted to marry young teens in society before why is it taboo now. i dont think the psycholoical point is what killed the topic but more of sensing if you post your opinion others might not discuss it in a debatin fashion or at all even which discourage you from continuing.

you do sense an air of lazyness in replies. 

" but I don't think that should force someone to play devil's advocate for the sake of a debate"

i cant imagine anyone doing so, cause even if they did it would be obvious.

i will most likely be an opposing debater in a lot of disscusions since i'm the one with the least common background with the rest. but calling me "childish" insults my entire race, if you cant tolerate my unusal thinking you wont hope to tolerate others world wide.

Of course, if someone calls me bigoted or bitter it's an attack on every white English man on this earth.
No, when people called you that it had nothing to do with your nationality or race. Trust me here, none of us care about others nationalities or races and race is often ignored completely in discussions.
In the end I probably am bigoted and I'm definately bitter, but that's nothing to do with my race. I'm just a horrible person like that o.-

I'm far too hesitant to join in discussions because I'm extremely blunt and tend to wind people up. Many times I've written a full reply, sometimes a bit too tl;dr, only to delete it without ever posting. As I'm British my point of view is quite different from many others as well, as I tend to be a bit more laid back over more controversial issues. So... yeah.

I also don't tend to argue all that much, I tend to pop in say my piece and be out again just like that, which doesn't help.

"No, when people called you that it had nothing to do with your nationality or race"

i know it was because of my opinion, but that opinion is not just mine sometimes but from my enviroment and the common view where i'm from. anyway it doesnt help to just name call someone, to back up the reason why you disagree with them is better then to insult them.
and no, you are in no way bitter dear.

"I'm far too hesitant to join in discussions because I'm extremely blunt and tend to wind people up"

i dont think you're the type of person who'd insult someone even if you do you seem like a nice enough person to apologize for it XD
so i dont think you got anything to worry about when posting. you seem very interesting with your opinions, and i'm sure you enjoy debating as we'd enjoy your input.

 "Many times I've written a full reply, sometimes a bit too tl;dr, only to delete it without ever posting. As I'm British my point of view is quite different from many others as well, as I tend to be a bit more laid back over more controversial issues. So... yeah"

you really shouldn't be hesitating, if the debating section of this forum wont tolerate opinions for being varied it loses flavour. you and me and the other members gotta stop worrying so much  so we can enjoy posting. just seeing the number of views on topics really shows how many of us are interested in topics we dont post in, which is a shame.

But how can you say that 'that opinion is not just mine sometimes but from my enviroment and the common view where i'm from.' You've just said how "everyone has different opinions" so now you're going to go on, and pretty much generally say that everyone shares the same views where your from?

^Its fairly common for people from a specific regions to carry similar opinions. Take for instance, a large majority of people in the USA are religious. I'm not though, I'm just a black sheep =P

One that apparently is going to hell from what my peers tell me all the time <.<

Anyway, its probably because everyone is just not wanting a repeat of what's happened in the past (Politics, Religion, etc. tend to be very touchy subjects). Because whether we want to admit it or not, we all have our own inner troll.

Sorry, I couldn't resit!

<pinches gamma's cheek> 

as for your question episonic, imagine this:
i point at a middle aged man and tell you he takes baths with his 21 year old daughter absolutely naked. how would you react? you'd most likely call him bad things like "gross" or worse, now you might not agree to it and it bothers you a person could think that's okay since you're strongly opposing the idea. yet in his culture (let's say he's japanese) it's common and never thought of as a sexual or shameful thing to do.

you need to be tolerate of others thinking no matter how opposed you are to them. try figuring out why they think this way, instead of insulting what might be an idea they live by.

"Anyway, its probably because everyone is just not wanting a repeat of what's happened in the past (Politics, Religion, etc. tend to be very touchy subjects). Because whether we want to admit it or not, we all have our own inner troll"

its only touchy when you havent tolerated everyone's side, to do so you need to crack open these topics.
and like i said when debates heat up you can cool them, so there's no need to fear that issue. and i agree to us having an inner troll, i dont accept everything, i might be intolerante of other ideas and thinking, and pretending i'm not isnt gonna change it in my mind, i need to explore it and debates are fun and good for that.

"One that apparently is going to hell from what my peers tell me all the time <.<"

my community is very closed minded religeously... its kinda fixing itself now but still got ways to go, they havent discovered the wonders of free discussion yet.
so i understand your struggles. i'd like to debate with you on religion some time

Possibly a clearer way to put the issue of regional similarity of views on various issues is that, although we are individuals, our experiences - which play a fairly significant role in forming our opinions - are largely shaped by our environment and culture. How we react to these experiences is still up to us, though.

I agree that a lot of people are probably still wary of stirring things up due to some of the more forceful debates which happened in the past, which is fair enough - after all, this is an online community, and so generally wants to get along - but I think there's more of a problem with the feeling that your points - however well researched, reasoned or thought out - are likely to be largely overlooked/ignored in the forum, and as such dissuades people from making that effort. Probably a shame you didn't post something to direct the fetishes discussion a bit more down the lines you were suggesting, soncsfan1991.

On a side note, it's interesting to find such a lively discussion on why we don't have any real debates around here...

Alright, you do have a point. Still though, my opinion based on my culture and place of being raised would be that a middle aged man taking baths with his daughter WOULD be a disgusting and criminal act, and you might need to respect that THAT is my opinion based on MY culture, therefore you shouldn't take offense to it.

I dunno I think if the two people doing it are both consenting due to it being their culture than let them do it. As long as it doesn't go further cause that's when it starts breaking laws.

After all who are we to judge on other people's lives.

     "my opinion based on my culture and place of being raised would be that a middle aged man taking baths with his daughter WOULD be a disgusting and criminal act"

actually i agree with you on this episonic, i strongly agree infact and have points to address this matter. and bunanians statement is worth debating, her opinion is more civilazed and respecting to different cultures, it would be interesting to see this discussed further and with more others discussing it <crying> i really want to engage in a serious debate.

      "Probably a shame you didn't post something to direct the fetishes discussion a bit more down the lines you were suggesting, soncsfan1991"

i thank you for saying that, the reason i havent is the same reason why none of us are debating full heartedly. we're holding back.

      "but I think there's more of a problem with the feeling that your points - however well researched, reasoned or thought out - are likely to be largely overlooked/ignored in the forum, and as such dissuades people from making that effort."

that is a very very good statement trimanus that needs to be laminated.
we all love to be heard, that's why we join the forum. and i suppose if you post something no one replies to you might get disappointed or even feel negative about yourself and wont want to look uncool infront of the other members. at least this is what i think, can anyone explain why we fear having our post ignored?

     "On a side note, it's interesting to find such a lively discussion on why we don't have any real debates around here..."

yeah, i want to debate in the other topics espacially the fetish and religion ones in the marble garden, but unless we break the ice and i know the other forumers are ready to seriously debate i might not engage in those. this is why i started this debate and i'm sure what i'm feeling and thinking is the same for others. so we all gotta get to the bottom of this if we want to have fun debating. 

COSMOS! CRAIG! HUKOS! you three are also important elements in the marble garden but you only posted here once, wake up and start debating this topic if you want to unleash your true skills. i can tell you are holding back. 
epi, bunanigans, trimanus and me are debating this seriously. let's keep it up till we all wake up, and get the rush back in our blood, cause if we cant debate this we might not be able to debate anything else... it cant work unless we all work for it.

I dunno I think if the two people doing it are both consenting due to it being their culture than let them do it. As long as it doesn't go further cause that's when it starts breaking laws.

After all who are we to judge on other people's lives.

Republicans like to think otherwise lmao

Yeah, one thing that happens in the debates. Instead of someone stating an opinion and others arguing (debating) about it, people just all state their opinions without a word to say about the latter. That should change, too.

excellent point epi. why dont others reply to others's posts and really read them?

i used to be in a very active forum before this one, the way i post and quote some parts in other's posts is how we used to do it. we really took every bit of the other person's debate seriously and didnt waste an opinion. there's really a lot of good points being made why not explore them.

come on guys, show more interest in each other, i know you're on this site cause you like the company here. let it show you're reading the other's posts and reply to them. 70% chance you'll get a reply to your post. and if you dont, you'll get it the next time so why worry about it so much. have fun and make it fun for others.  negative or positive your opinion will be liked.

Personally I'd rather have no reply than one which blasts my arguement out of the water and makes me look an idiot. Cause I have quite the low embarassment threshold. It's happened before! But I have to agree no reply at all can be disheartening.

Most of my posts are spur of the moment, including this one. But I know a lot of people really carefully think about their posts so it must be awful for them not to get a reply.

As a side note, I tend to avoid quoting unless I'm referancing a very specific point. Just my writing style. So I am replying, promise!

Personally I'd rather have no reply than one which blasts my arguement out of the water and makes me look an idiot. Cause I have quite the low embarassment threshold. It's happened before! But I have to agree no reply at all can be disheartening.

Most of my posts are spur of the moment, including this one. But I know a lot of people really carefully think about their posts so it must be awful for them not to get a reply.

Well, there's always the option of taking the same post, making some slight changes, and retrying it on another website. Even when that doesn't work, simply having thought about the subject involved in the post can still be helpful in forming one's views on the subject.

And Mada, when there's plenty of sites where debate can be held, why do you focus so much on trying to improve it within this site?

If you're so anxious for debate, you could look elsewhere for it anyway, but you seem to insist on it being with people here, and you even name specific people you'd prefer it to be with. You expect debate to be fun, but it wasn't too long ago you were talking about someone you were debating being too rough. Sure you're asking people to be gentle too, but what if that is just going against however much others might prefer their debates rougher? I mean, if you're going to try to talk others into debate here it may be worth asking yourself how sure you are you even want it.

     "And Mada, when there's plenty of sites where debate can be held, why do you focus so much on trying to improve it within this site?"

the same reason why we're all in this site, cause i like the people here, i want to see more of their thinking and get to know them using this sites main purpose, discussion. you been here a long time you can understand and relate to me in this right? its not debating that makes the fun its who with, and everyone is so much fun. 

     "You expect debate to be fun, but it wasn't too long ago you were complaining about someone you were debating being too rough. Sure you're encouraging people to be gentler here too, but what if that is just going against however much other people here might prefer their debates rougher? I mean, if you're going to try to talk others into debate here it may be worth asking yourself how sure you are you even want it..."

i know i'm over sensitive .. i wasnt always like that though, something made me unreasonably sensitive. my flaws shouldnt be a reason why there shouldn't be debating. if i take a rough comment badly that's my own fault. anyway people are nice here, you cant like sonic at our age and be a bad person at the same time, so rough debaters are kind at heart regardless of how strong they come off. just gotta accept different people also means different approaches... i advise gentler conduct but that's my answer to encourage debating.

you actually put up a good point matt, maybe some people are discouraged at debating cause they know they like to debate roughly and fear to look like the bad guy just cause they have a more cutting honesty than most. as for if i should ask myself if i really want to debate... i do want it, i'm not strong enough to handle critisizim but if i post in the marble garden than i wont be off guard and only have myself to blame if i dont like what comes to me. ... i also think i'd be less sensitive if i see how others handle critisizim.

    "Personally I'd rather have no reply than one which blasts my arguement out of the water and makes me look an idiot. Cause I have quite the low embarassment threshold"

but that's the good thing about it, sometimes you get to discover how wrong your thinking was. you cant see the full picture on your own you need other points of views to reach the full truth. wont you rather grow than stay with closed minded thinking even at the cost of being embarassed?
as for the embarassment, yeah we all get those. one day its gonna be someone embarassing you someday its gonna be you doing that to someone else. its natural. anyway, here's a little trick i know to help with mistakes. for every embarassing thing you say try saying something cool and meaningful in some other thread XD

the same reason why we're all in this site, cause i like the people here

Again, I don't think you should be jumping to conclusions about "why we're all in this site" and I'd say different people have different reasons. For me I think it's more so that I'm "used to" this community (ie. sorta-kinda know them, or at least their online selves, some of them for years) and every now and then I'm curious as to what's going on here, sometimes jumping in...

you cant like sonic at our age and be a bad person at the same time

Really? Why not? [/carmen-from-dr-rabbit]

Also, there was something about my other post which I'm not sure if you noticed... maybe I was being a little TOO subtle...

*Is off to do a little rewording on that post.*

      "Again, I don't think you should be jumping to conclusions about "why we're all in this site" and I'd say different people have different reasons. For me I think it's more so that I'm "used to" this community"

<pokes matt> oh come on! admit it you like people here.
i'm pretty sure of what i'm saying, its the company that makes you stay here, that makes us all stay here   and i'd love to connect with my fellow members in hearty discussions.

<pokes matt> oh come on! admit it you like people here.

Some of the people here, yeah... not sure what I think of this site as a whole even now, though... I just think you seem a bit too sure of yourself about why others stay here.

Also, I edited the earlier post you were initially responding to... did you happen to notice anything about it yet?

Sorry I've missed a bit of the debate - life gets in the way every now and then...

Interesting point by sonicsfan1991 - if you accept that this is a forum for debating, and so are more on-guard for potential criticisms of your views and thus are less inclined to take them as personal attacks on your entire self, then that can remove some of the self-censorship a lot of people tend to adopt for the sake of maintaining harmony and not upsetting people.

On the cultural respect part of the debate - the respect needs to go both ways as well. Over-playing cultural differences that one group would find offensive and then demanding that this view be tolerated simply because it is accepted within your culture is just as bad as condemning a culture for being different in my opinion - for example, I believe the "Draw Mohammed" day that was/is being organised in reaction to the somewhat extreme reactions of some muslims to artists that have depicted the prophet is not far off the offensiveness of the muslims who provided the extreme reactions in the first place.

I agree with matthaytor700 that debate should not be forced - as well as the caution of being careful what you wish for as far as encouraging the gloves to come off - but certainly encouraging debate by providing topics you're inteersted in and interacting with other people's thoughts in your posts is a potentially worthwhile endeavour. And as Trudi pointed out earlier, you don't necessarily have to quote other posts to interact - keeping your post relevant to what has been expressed earlier, picking up on points made by others, or just referencing other's in your post can achieve the same end.

As for feeling embarrassed by someone tearing your post to pieces - it happens. Embarrassment is temporary, but what you learn from someone else's reasoning can benefit you in the long term. Maybe you're viewpoint is still valid, but the reasons you'd had for believing it weren't as strong as you thought - and by re-examining your views you can find some stronger reasons for believing as you do. Without being challenged to do so, you're unlikely to really look at these things, which can help you to develop your thoughts on the world and possibly help you grow as a person.

Oh I agree you definately learn from other people's reasoning, it's just not a particularly pleasant way to do so 🙂

I dunno I think if the two people doing it are both consenting due to it being their culture than let them do it. As long as it doesn't go further cause that's when it starts breaking laws.

After all who are we to judge on other people's lives.

Republicans like to think otherwise lmao

I'm republican and I respect individual social rights.  No sweeping generalizations, please.

Yeah, Im republican too, and I respect individual social rights ALSO. Maybe republican politicians would think otherwise, tho

I dunno I think if the two people doing it are both consenting due to it being their culture than let them do it. As long as it doesn't go further cause that's when it starts breaking laws.

After all who are we to judge on other people's lives.

Republicans like to think otherwise lmao

I'm republican and I respect individual social rights.  No sweeping generalizations, please.

I suppose whether or not being "republican" contradicts respecing "social rights" depends on what particular "social rights" one's referring to.

But still, you said in another thread that you support gay marriage, which is one of the things that does contradict "republican." Granted, it's too trivial a subject on which to base which party one supports, but I think it's more a question of "what core logic does this subject reflect on?" and there's a lot of things connected to the topic of gay marriage.

I guess the question ought to be why you associate with Republicans in the first place, and whether or not the logic at its core is similar to the reasoning against gay marriage, or against cannabis legalization, etc...

I dunno I think if the two people doing it are both consenting due to it being their culture than let them do it. As long as it doesn't go further cause that's when it starts breaking laws.

After all who are we to judge on other people's lives.

Republicans like to think otherwise lmao

I'm republican and I respect individual social rights.  No sweeping generalizations, please.

One in a million that does. Come to the southeast where I live and tell me its a sweeping generalization

Just because we're republicans doesnt mean we all have the same beliefs.

*watches a topic that began about debating turn into a discussion about political parties*

episonic wrote:

---

Just because we're republicans doesnt mean we all have the same beliefs.

*watches a topic that began about debating turn into a discussion about political parties*

True, but at the same time I never said you were from the southeast. I'm merely referring to the tendencies of Southeastern Republicans of the Southern Baptist ilk that are common in the Southeast. Trust me, down here, its not a generalization. It may be different in other places but this is still one place in the US where Sodomy is STILL outlawed, as far as I know.

Why isnt sodomy outlawed everywhere? It should be.

Why isnt sodomy outlawed everywhere? It should be.

This is the part where I point out that you're repressing social rights, considering Sodomy is technically any sexual position that isn't Missionary position. Meaning two homosexual partners cannot have sex with each ot her without breaking the law. Or who knows, maybe the couple down the street likes to do some kinky stuff once in a while. Laws shouldn't be based on a 2000 year old book whose validity isn't 100% assured, regardless of what it says on the inside. Oh and you've contradicted yourself.

...how on earth is it even vaguely possible to enforce a law like that? Spying on people's bedrooms?

That's an awful law in my opinion. Especially from a country which is supposed to be all about freedom...

As long as it's not beastality or incest or rape or something who cares!

And yeah I have no idea if such a law exists here but I know it sure isn't enforced if there is. But we have so many rediculous outdated laws here it's hilarious. Like how all mute swans living in the UK are property of the queen 😀

I thought sodomy WAS rape that involved different sexual acts, like masturbation and touching and whatnot. Like I thought it was any kind of rape that didnt involve... ok, I'm not gonna describe it on here, but anyways... Sorry, excuse my ignorance.

I thought sodomy WAS rape that involved different sexual acts, like masturbation and touching and whatnot. Like I thought it was any kind of rape that didnt involve... ok, I'm not gonna describe it on here, but anyways... Sorry, excuse my ignorance.

No problem, basically Sodomy is anything that is considered an "unclean" sexual act. Which primarily includes oral/anal sex (You might have moral objections to this, but I honestly don't see a problem as long as its consensual) or other stuff that might be considered "freaky". Beastiality shouldn't be allowed obviously, on the basis that the animal in question honestly has no way to give consent at all so its basically raping an animal.

Susan: That's because here in the southeast, a gay couple having sex is WRONG and utterly DISGUSTING, no wonder you brits are so assbackwards with what all your  gays freely having sex and being happy together and whatnot

episonic wrote:

---

Just because we're republicans doesnt mean we all have the same beliefs.

*watches a topic that began about debating turn into a discussion about political parties*

True, but at the same time I never said you were from the southeast. I'm merely referring to the tendencies of Southeastern Republicans of the Southern Baptist ilk that are common in the Southeast. Trust me, down here, its not a generalization. It may be different in other places but this is still one place in the US where Sodomy is STILL outlawed, as far as I know.

Even though "Republicans like to think otherwise" is equating political affiliation with views? The way it was said is still technically a generalization, even if you meant "for the most part" or something like that. (In which case, "tend to" would probably have been more fitting.) Of course, it being a generalization isn't necessarily a bad thing either.

And in this case, I think there really is at least some kind of contradiction between some of SOAC's expressed views and her support for the Republican party, assuming that's what she's referring to. Maybe it depends on what kind of reasoning she gives...

     "And in this case, I think there really is at least some kind of contradiction between some of SOAC's expressed views and her support for the Republican party, assuming that's what she's referring to. Maybe it depends on what kind of reasoning she gives..."

who's SOAC matt? is it susan who hukos was quoting?

    "...how on earth is it even vaguely possible to enforce a law like that? Spying on people's bedrooms?"

ha ha yeah good one.
and you know i call such laws as "cheating", when a religeous command is enforced on people instead of them choosing to obey it, it becomes meaningless. take for example the freedom of religion, some countries do not allow their people to choose the religion they desire or to not choose any even. not giving people the option makes them fake infront of god. they'll always wonder if they chose the religion cause they wanted to or was it cause they had to? and what about the ones who dont belive, you cant force a heart what it cant accept, its spirit torture.
its really horrible to spend a life time lying to one's self.  

btw i dont have such conflicts at least not in this, i never lie to my heart no matter the cost. its just i seen so many people .. and i suffer injustice enough to understand how others might feel. you dont need to be on the same boat to feel for others... i wish powerful people with the say in everything knew this.

who's SOAC matt? is it susan who hukos was quoting? 

No, it was ShoeOfAllCosmos.

Susan is my real name 🙂 Uncreative parents!

I agree on the choosing religion thing, actually. Everyone should have the freedom to choose their religion, regardless of what they're brought up as. And no-one should be forced into a religion eg marriage. Some religions forbid close relationships with people outside their religion which really winds me up.

We're a long long way from a perfect society yet. Yeah I know that's a subjective statement but you know, yeah.

Susan is my real name Uncreative parents!

I agree on the choosing religion thing, actually. Everyone should have the freedom to choose their religion, regardless of what they're brought up as. And no-one should be forced into a religion eg marriage. Some religions forbid close relationships with people outside their religion which really winds me up.

We're a long long way from a perfect society yet. Yeah I know that's a subjective statement but you know, yeah.

+1

Where I'm from, anyone that isn't religious tends to be viewed as a 2nd class citizen by those "holier than thou". And this being the southeast, you get a LOT of those type of people. Granted, not all are like that. But I'll put it this way. It wasn't until I used the internet that I met someone who called themselves Christian that didn't come off as the biggest asshole I ever saw. I've really yet to meet someone irl (Not saying they don't exist, just talking about personal experiences) that was religious that didn't see themselves as better than me when they found out I don't believe the same thing that they do. A lot of southern baptists around here don't even want to associate with someone who isn't a super right-winger.

I'm rambling anyway, and if everyone else around me is right, then I'll be burning in hell. At least I'll get VIP tickets and get to hang out with Satan. And we all know Satan throws one mean party.

There's nothing that ticks me off more than religious discrimination.

Yeah, that and those dirty @#$%.

Lol XD

Yeah, that and those dirty @#$%.

<pinches turtle's cheek> you bad boy!

     "Susan is my real name Uncreative parents!"

XD actually i think its nice, espacially when people get to call you Sue, its such a cute name. waaaaaaaa i always have a hard time with my name, you think its easy but everytime i give out my name a "huh?" always follows and i gotta explain it so many times its so much work. 

      "But I'll put it this way. It wasn't until I used the internet that I met someone who called themselves Christian that didn't come off as the biggest asshole I ever saw"

i discovered normal religious people when i traveled, the worst most darkest day of my life was coming back home. you need to leave hukos, find the light! before the darkness consumes you!
its actually funny i'm normal anywhere else in the world just strange in my own world. the problem is some areas and societies dont grow and stay that way cause they're closed up, they might have technology and advanced in many ways but the logic is still a hundered years in the past.

Derp, I like to think the most logical path is to be conservative in business and life choices, and liberal in personal rights. Does that make me a moderate?

Derp, I like to think the most logical path is to be conservative in business and life choices, and liberal in personal rights. Does that make me a moderate?

That's not just a matter of magnitude but also of "direction." That sort of approach sounds more like the "libertarian-leaning" approach, which is in a different direction than Republicans generally seem to be going (ie. neo-conservative) nowadays. Of course, it is up to you who you associate with, but something seems contradictory about expressing a "libertarian" perspective as a reason for associating with a not-so-libertarian political party.