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we all know 63% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

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And 94% of people believe that.

Being gay myself, the sexuality of others is of no particular consequence to me.

I don't think there's any particular "cause" of homosexuality, just like there's no real "cause" of hair colour or eye colour or finger lengths. It's just genotypes and phenotypes and a lot of randomness.

Another word for independent - self-actualizing, perhaps?

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I've heard so many times that "I hate the sin, not the sinner." Thats not much, all thats saying is, "I hate the way you are, don't take it personal." It's kinda like our "j/king" rule. You know, you can't blast someone and later go, "I was just messin'". I know its part of a religion, but I just can't get past it. How can you accept it?

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It's the same as those who say it's not their place to judge, but then express their dislike of homosexuality. You can't have it both ways, because all that's really amounting to is "my religion says you're wrong wrong WRONG but it's not up to me to punish you, God will do that" - effectively, "you'll get yours yet."

Also - just for the record, there's a lot more similarity between racism and homophobia than there is between racism and anti-Semitism, or homophobia and anti-Semitism. Not that any of them are qualities that people can hold and still consider themselves to be a decent person, but just saying.

To be honest Rico, there's a lot more to the whole 'hate the sin, not the sinner' bit than you seem to realize.

Think about a different sin, say...lying. When I was younger, I lied to my parents a lot, either on impulse, or for trying to worm my way out of something I thought would get me in REALLY big trouble (though in hindsight, I got in more trouble than I would have if I had just told the truth).

My parents did not hate me for lying. But they did punish me for committing such a hated sin. Nobody likes a liar.

Same thing applies to homosexuality.

I don't have a bunch of links ready, I have to say. Because I don't hate homosexuals. I hate their immoral behavior, but not them. However, applying this same phrase to say, the terrorists, is much harder. I hate the terrorists for what they did, even though they are capable of being forgiven by Jesus. I am not perfect, but I strive to be a good Christian.

But that's getting off-topic. As for the questions you offered...

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If you found out your boss is gay, what effect does it have on your job?

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I'd be quiet about it. After all, the boss is the boss.

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If you found out a parent is bisexual, how would you treat them?

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I'd still love them, as difficult as it might be. Can't really hypothesize about this, considering my parents are straighter than a 180-degree angle.

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If you found out a sibling or close friend was gay, what effect would it have on your relationship with them?

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I might become more distant. I'd try to get them past their homosexuality, but I'd love them nonetheless.

To be frank, I can't really hypothesize about these scenarios. I honestly don't know how I'd react...so I can only wait and see if they do happen.

I know the phrase 'Let he without sin cast the first stone' is often brought up. But a lot of people seem to forget what Jesus also said during that particular story: 'Go and sin no more'.

*shrugs*

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What do you believe and why?

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Well, considering that heterosexuals can become homosexuals, and that homosexuals can become heterosexuals (aka, 'Ex-Gays'), and that many abused people (usually at a young age) can become homosexuals, I think homosexuality is linked to one's own choices, and is closely linked to one's own behavioral decisions, along with any psychological trauma and whatnot.

So nah, I don't think homosexuality is genetic. To be frank, it'd be rather counter-productive from a biological standpoint (yes, I know homosexuals have the proper anatomy to mate with members of the opposite sex, but you'd think that the inclination to be sexually attracted to a member of one's own gender would be a bit of a drawback).

And that's me.

Does that suffice Rico?

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Think about a different sin, say...lying. When I was younger, I lied to my parents a lot, either on impulse, or for trying to worm my way out of something I thought would get me in REALLY big trouble (though in hindsight, I got in more trouble than I would have if I had just told the truth).

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Would you hate someone for lying if they were an uncontrollably compulsive liar? If they couldn't actually tell the truth without doing themselves quite a bit of emotional and psychological damage? If lying was the only way they could actually communicate and build relationships with people?

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Well, considering that heterosexuals can become homosexuals, and that homosexuals can become heterosexuals (aka, 'Ex-Gays'), and that many abused people (usually at a young age) can become homosexuals, I think homosexuality is linked to one's own choices, and is closely linked to one's own behavioral decisions, along with any psychological trauma and whatnot.

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You've been told this before - you can't "become" any sexuality. You can certainly be gay and supress your urges and live as a heterosexual, or you can be confused on the matter and not realise or accept that you're gay long after you've married or had kids or whatever, or you can meet the right guy and realise that bisexuality might be the thing for you, but you can't change or control your sexuality anymore than you can will yourself to become taller just by sheer desire. (Also, you can reverse all this scenarios for heterosexuality, too - people who think they're gay can actually discover they've got a thing for women, too. This is probably what you're believing the thinly-veiled religious propaganda known as "ex-gays" are.)

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So nah, I don't think homosexuality is genetic. To be frank, it'd be rather counter-productive from a biological standpoint

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From a biological point of view, it actually makes quite a bit of sense. It keeps the population down, for starters. (Put too many rats in a cage, and what do they start to do? Go after other rats of the same sex.) And when have humans ever been limited to what our biology outlines for us?

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My parents did not hate me for lying. But they did punish me for committing such a hated sin. Nobody likes a liar.

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So god doesn't hate me for being gay. He just punishes me for it. Because nobody likes gays?

Not going to comment on the rest, I knew exactly how you'd reply, hon.

And Matt, I really do think there is some choice in it. Just like there is a choice in hair color, eye color, and finger length. But its fake, just like the stuff you said.

As for the rest? I really don't see a reason to hate anyone. I know some furries with VERY bizarre sexual fetishes. And as weird as they are... well, they ain't hurting me. I don't see a reason to insult them. I make fun of everything, but its never serious. Of course when I make fun of Christians, It's because I hate them and because I'm gay. When I take a shot at Gays its because I'm a flaming fruitcake. See where I'm going with that?

~Rico

Well there is a differenct between tolerance and accpetance.

Tolerance means you can put up with it but you still don't favor. As South Park put it, "You can tolerate a kid crying next to you but it will bother the **** out of you." or somthing like that.

And homosexuality might be a choice. Say a woman have been abused by men all her life. She may view them as unlovable and may look for another woman to love.

Well put. Tolerance is not a peaceful solution.

As someone that is, it wasn't a choice for me.

I still don't see why it matters if it's a choice or not. It's counterproductive to world peace to unaccepting of someone because they're different. We teach kids to accept people that are different, then say that they should only accept people that are different if they are ACCEPTED.

And this doesn't just go for gays. It goes for muslims too. And especially jews. I saw an article the other day that they are most targeted cultural group for hate crimes.

~Rico

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By now the more outspoken christians, and more extreme ones are itching, readying their paragraphs of links and reasons why there's nothing wrong with hating Gay's, but there is with hating jewish and blacks. Most tolerant people have already closed this topic because they know what this is and they know the answer is to just treat everyone as an equal unless that person personally gives you reason to treat them otherwise.

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I hate to be frank, but forget them. Jesus told them to be kind to their neighbors, and if they don't like it, they can pull a Constantine and take out twelve more books of the Bible, or accept it.

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Whats a term that means I believe in myself?

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That'd be Hedonism, I believe. ^_^

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Of course then I realized that I WAS one of these people. I was around 18 or 19 when I first started realizing it. That sort of pounded in the last nail to Christianity's coffin. I had and still have all these people around me saying that gays choose to be that way. When I know good and well thats a bold faced lie and only someone that has no clue could say it. What should I do?

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*sigh* The Nature over Nurture thing again? Bah. Never, ever, NEVAR tell someone that they don't have a choice in their emotional urges. You'll get more people raped, plundered, murdered and everything remotely related to that. Please, just stop. Love is, perhaps, the one thing that cannot be overcome, but anyone keeping their pants on has absolutely nothing to do with love. The problem here between everyone is homoSEXuality. Not homophilia...ality

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f you found out your boss is gay, what effect does it have on your job? If you found out a parent is bisexual, how would you treat them? If you found out a sibling or close friend was gay, what effect would it have on your relationship with them?

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No boss. Bad images. Laugh at my brother's hypocrisy. Wonder why they all have girlfriends, then. Hm.

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So god doesn't hate me for being gay. He just punishes me for it. Because nobody likes gays?

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[demi-sarcasm] By Jove, I think he's got it! [/demi-sarcasm] Put it in their shoes, and change the words to murder, or something. Just SAY, for a second, that you're wrong. You'd expect to be punished, right? The way you word it, you'd think that punishment is wrong, or something.

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Just like there is a choice in hair color, eye color, and finger length

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,racism, rapists, and ya know what? I'm going to be the gay-hating racist Southern man from Antarctica bent on world domination.* I'll torture every man who looks at me wrong with baptisms of fire, and if anyone dies, I'll do my best to bring them back to life with those electric CPR machines so I can hurt them some more. Why? Because insignificant pieces of protein scattered throughout easily destructible microorganisms distributed inside my body decided to tell me to with no external feedback whatsoever. I'm a DNA robot!
*I'm only one of those. Guess which one! ^_^

And now, the thing I don't agree with Ultra for:

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Well, considering that heterosexuals can become homosexuals, and that homosexuals can become heterosexuals (aka, 'Ex-Gays'), and that many abused people (usually at a young age) can become homosexuals, I think homosexuality is linked to one's own choices, and is closely linked to one's own behavioral decisions, along with any psychological trauma and whatnot.

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BUT, what you forget is that your actions put you into a state of being. Homosexuals are not homosexuals unless they go through their entire life not having sex with the opposite sex. Thus, they are not homosexual until they die, and thus, never truly homosexual at all, as death is a void. And voids have no states of being. And, as thus, you would not be able to become heterosexual unless you went your entire life without having sex with the same sex. Hmm. Thus, people can be only bisexual or virgins, aside from even further unexpected expectations, and there is no middle ground. Huzzah. ^_^;

And now, to commemorate Nytloc's appearance onto the scene, lettuce celebrate with an almighty shout for finding loopholes!

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No offense Jimmy and Ultra but unless you have something else other than "The bible said so," I don't really wanna hear it. If you want to answer the question, cool.

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*looks behind himself at Jimmy and Ultra.*
I've got this one.
*throws a conveniently-placed holy text at everyone in the topic.*
"BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAID SO!" =D

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

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Never, ever, NEVAR tell someone that they don't have a choice in their emotional urges.

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...followed by...

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Love is, perhaps, the one thing that cannot be overcome

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Totally negates your comment about emotional urges. Of course, lust is more about emotional urges than love will ever be. Love is deeper than emotional urges.

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You'll get more people raped, plundered, murdered and everything remotely related to that.

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Not true. Rape has nothing to do with emotional urges, unless possibly referring to rape happening with drinking involved. Otherwise, rape (just as your other examples) is about power and nothing to do with emotions. Granted, murder can be emotionally charged at times, but most murders aren't--they're either premediated or calculated in some manner.

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The way you word it, you'd think that punishment is wrong, or something.

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Not hardly. Think of it as if your parents say that they love the fact that you for being alive, but decide to beat you because you are alive.

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Homosexuals are not homosexuals unless they go through their entire life not having sex with the opposite sex. Thus, they are not homosexual until they die, and thus, never truly homosexual at all, as death is a void. And voids have no states of being. And, as thus, you would not be able to become heterosexual unless you went your entire life without having sex with the same sex. Hmm. Thus, people can be only bisexual or virgins, aside from even further unexpected expectations, and there is no middle ground. Huzzah.

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Based on these statements (and a couple of others) I have a feeling that you don't know what homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual mean (or asexual for that matter). I'm also pretty sure that you are the one I provided the correct definitions for homosexual & heterosexual when the definition you gave was extremely inaccurate--and this comment doesn't seem to be one of your "silly" ones. I just don't feel like looking through topics to see if my feeling is correct.

What does this have to with intolerance and acceptance? o.O

Edit: Since I'm getting complaints I guess I need to clarify this thread. Just because a topic in marble garden includes the word "gay" does not greenlight a morality debate.

Now, that said, the PURPOSE of this topic is a discussion over intolerance of people and refusal to accept others who are different from you. This INCLUDES hot button issues like the gays, and the muslims, but we have enough morality discussions and this is not one of them.

If I can ask it I'd like this topic to discuss, or debate for the more fiery users, the two sides of tolerance and acceptance. Those that believe in it and those that don't. Why do you feel its right not accept gay people, or arabic people, or in the case of the current immigration issue mexicans, any other cultural group you want to discuss.

We know you think gays are immoral, thats been discussed at epic length. But, in a country founded on equality for all, does that make it ok to shun them?

And to attempt other discussion here there are other cultural groups affected by this topic.

We know you think arabs are terrorists. But, in a country founded on equality for all, does that make it ok to shun them?

We know you think mexicans are lazy goldbrickers. But, in a country founded on equality for all, does that make it ok to shun them?

Continue the list and discuss. Get off the religious podeums.

~Rico

Rico,

I had friends, coworkers, supervisors, students,...that are gay. I still talked to them, hugged them,...no bosses yet.

I had 3 relatives who are or were gay. No difference.

I think the clue is that they also respect my heterosexuality.

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Another thing, some people say people are born gay. Others say they choose to be gay. Still others say thats a mixture of of the two and that the person still has little active control over it. What do you believe and why? And please, no statistics

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Most people were not born gay or lesbian unless they are hermaphrodites...

I worked grades k-12 ages 5-20 for the past 24 years. I have found out that people begin to experience gay or lesbian thoughts around ages 14-17. I thing is related to hormones. Around 13-14 most young men and young women's bodies experience too many changes. Some play games of are with the bottle and so on. Others are touched by someone from the same sex and like it.(Some have told me thei stories, that's how I know).

Several experiment but end up being straight again. those who persevre by age 20 have a higher percentage of being true gays or lesbians.

I think Matt made a good comment about homosexual people not having kids and keeping the population down.That is what bothers me. I am a strong supporter of keeping a steady population. Nature has created a ratio of 1-1 (1 male for one female by age 20). Thus, even if you feel you are gay, you should have sex, if not with a straight female, with a besexual woman to have 1-2 kids.
Even Alexander the great and the Greeeks understood that one must have kids.

We must keep a certain balance in nature.

I think Matt made a good comment about homosexual people not having kids and keeping the population down.
Statements like that are dumb. For every gay couple there's 20 dozen rednecks in Utah punching out babies at maximum efficiency.

Nature balances itself. You and I do not have control of nature, to think we do is foolish.

Really Cyke, anyone that thinks we're in danger of low population growth just removed all merit any of their statments have ever and will ever have so, meh.

It was well stated but you still aren't really on topic here. I don't care what you think about cultural group x or y. It's your opinion, no offense but just like I told Ultra I didn't make this topic for people to fire off opinions.

You said it doesn't affect you as long as they have mutual respect for you. Thats a good start, a REALLY good start, I hate gay pride parades as much as I hate KKK rallies.

But what about equal rights? Like profiling muslims at airports and outlawing gay civil unions and such. What is your opinion on those kinda things?

~Rico

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To be honest Rico, there's a lot more to the whole 'hate the sin, not the sinner' bit than you seem to realize.

Think about a different sin, say...lying. When I was younger, I lied to my parents a lot, either on impulse, or for trying to worm my way out of something I thought would get me in REALLY big trouble (though in hindsight, I got in more trouble than I would have if I had just told the truth).

My parents did not hate me for lying. But they did punish me for committing such a hated sin. Nobody likes a liar.

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The problem with the "Hate the Sin, not the Sinner" here is that by saying nobody likes a liar, you are defining someone by the sin, the same applys for murderers, thieves...etc.

Simply by using that descriptive term you're defining someone AS sin rather than someone who has sinned. Instead of saying "No one likes lies." you say "No one likes a liar.", thus your hatred is towards the sinner, rather than the act.

The same with homosexuality, I've never heard someone going against homosexuality, but rather going against homosexuals. While you may not actually hate people here, the term just isn't followed the way it's taught.

Well, a bunch of idolatric youths have gone and riled me up again, so I've decided to grace this all with a response.

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...followed by...

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Love is, perhaps, the one thing that cannot be overcome
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Totally negates your comment about emotional urges. Of course, lust is more about emotional urges than love will ever be. Love is deeper than emotional urges.

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It's called an exception. I swear that readers are far too literal with their interpretations nowadays.

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Not true. Rape has nothing to do with emotional urges, unless possibly referring to rape happening with drinking involved. Otherwise, rape (just as your other examples) is about power and nothing to do with emotions. Granted, murder can be emotionally charged at times, but most murders aren't--they're either premediated or calculated in some manner.

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I'm usually not one to sneer, but pshaw. You honestly... I mean, HONESTLY believe that rape has nothing to do with emotional urges? I hope I'm misinterpreting this. It's called lust, and it usually coincides with power. "Lust for power?" Somebody help me out here. And bulglary is taken from greed. Emotions can be bad, ya know.

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Not hardly. Think of it as if your parents say that they love the fact that you for being alive, but decide to beat you because you are alive.

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You're missing a variable here. Good parents tend only to beat their children when they do something wrong. It's not exactly haphazard.

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Based on these statements (and a couple of others) I have a feeling that you don't know what homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual mean (or asexual for that matter). I'm also pretty sure that you are the one I provided the correct definitions for homosexual & heterosexual when the definition you gave was extremely inaccurate--and this comment doesn't seem to be one of your "silly" ones. I just don't feel like looking through topics to see if my feeling is correct.

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...You didn't catch that? 😛 It was one of those silly paradoxical statements. "He said that she said, making me say that I said they said we said..." Funny wordplay, like the 'Rabbit Season, Duck Season' gag. Usually via an influx of repeating changes of possession in a message; in this case 'who said.'

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Why do you feel its right not accept gay people, or arabic people, or in the case of the current immigration issue mexicans, any other cultural group you want to discuss.
We know you think gays are immoral, thats been discussed at epic length. But, in a country founded on equality for all, does that make it ok to shun them?
And to attempt other discussion here there are other cultural groups affected by this topic.
We know you think arabs are terrorists. But, in a country founded on equality for all, does that make it ok to shun them?

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You have the underlying assumption that I'm attempting to shun you, or Mexicans, or Jews, or Naz- Okay. I do shun the nazis. I'm not one of those guys out there looking for the next Salem witch hunt. The Divinity finds you at fault, and I'll do what I can inside its own values to try and deter you from your set path. I'm not gonna stab you in the back with an unusually blunt spoon, or anything.

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think Matt made a good comment about homosexual people not having kids and keeping the population down.That is what bothers me. I am a strong supporter of keeping a steady population. Nature has created a ratio of 1-1 (1 male for one female by age 20). Thus, even if you feel you are gay, you should have sex, if not with a straight female, with a besexual woman to have 1-2 kids.
Even Alexander the great and the Greeeks understood that one must have kids.

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*readjusts his glasses on his nose for no apparent reason.* I'm rather afraid that I don't agree with this at'all. The world's in turmoil because of an overexpanding population, and I'm rather afraid that only two things will stop it: Nuclear war, or Population 'Control.' (And by that, I do not mean the Big Brother kind.) Lower the population, every single one of our problems are lessened significantly. Food, pollution, deforestation. The population should have maxed out at about 500 million to a billion. And the thing is, we can literally fix that problem in about eighty years. Sensical people would know that you can choose the size of this generation, and simply let nature take its course for this one.

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Statements like that are dumb. For every gay couple there's 20 dozen rednecks in Utah punching out babies at maximum efficiency.

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Nope. 'Fraid they're right here in Arkansas. <_<

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Nature balances itself. You and I do not have control of nature, to think we do is foolish.

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Ohhh... That's rather dangerous thinking if you ask me. Nature will balance itself out to an extent... but there's a point of no return. If we place H-bombs all over the major continents of our world, yell out, "BALANCE OUT THIS, B****," and set them all off at the same time, there's not going to be anything TO balance out on either side of the scale. Well... There's oceans, but from what I understand, H-bombs are comparatively cheap when its destructive capabilites are induced into the price tag. Prolly blow them up, too.

I'm thoroughly convinced that pollution can get far enough ahead of us for the same result... minus craters.

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The problem with the "Hate the Sin, not the Sinner" here is that by saying nobody likes a liar, you are defining someone by the sin, the same applys for murderers, thieves...etc.

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Please stop the senseless use of wordplay. Homosexuality can literally be brought right up to the word 'disease,' and trust me, I tried it. Is it a disease? No. You're overclassifying. That's simply how our language works, and not meant to deliver ultimatums.

If you wish, we could talk like this:
"NOBODY ENJOYS THE COMPANY OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE, IN ACTION, PROPOSED THE ACTS OF LYING UNTO THEMSELVES."

Wait. Dang. I think I just overanalyzed an overanalyzation.

And I apologize in advance, Rico, as it's probably my own doing, but trying to salvage your original idea for this topic would be considered null and void as of the second you posted it. It had an inevitable outcome... even if I have to admit that _I_ be the outcome. <_<

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

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Please stop the senseless use of wordplay. Homosexuality can literally be brought right up to the word 'disease,' and trust me, I tried it. Is it a disease? No. You're overclassifying. That's simply how our language works, and not meant to deliver ultimatums.

If you wish, we could talk like this:
"NOBODY ENJOYS THE COMPANY OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE, IN ACTION, PROPOSED THE ACTS OF LYING UNTO THEMSELVES."

Wait. Dang. I think I just overanalyzed an overanalyzation

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No, I'm making a point, to call someone a liar, which is defining someone by sin, then saying "nobody likes a liar", then saying "Hate the sin, not the sinner" isn't following that later statement.

Nobody likes lies, nobody likes being lied too, but jugding on the saying, Christians should be accepting of the people that commit such sins.

I'm fine with people saying that they hate some kind of person, well, in the credit that they at least admit that they do without hypocracy, but to then say they follow the "Hate the sin, not the sinner" line is just being a hypocrit.

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You honestly... I mean, HONESTLY believe that rape has nothing to do with emotional urges? I hope I'm misinterpreting this.

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Nope, no misreading.

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It's called lust, and it usually coincides with power.

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Lust is an emotion. Power is NOT an emotion. If lust usually coincided with power, then there would be a lot more rapes going on. It would also mean that some people that have been raped wouldn't have been raped.

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"Lust for power?"

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That phrase has nothing to do with lust relating with power. Lust means "an overwhelming desire or craving." Power means "might" or "authority" (in the usage you're using here). While both are nouns, neither are related, nor do they go together usually. There are "fruits" and there is "labor" and there's a phrase called "fruits of labor." The existence of that phrase doesn't mean "fruits" and "labor" go together.

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And bulglary is taken from greed.

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Burglary doesn't have to deal with greed. Many times burglary deals with revenge, and other times it deals with survival.

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Emotions can be bad, ya know.

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Emotions are not bad. What people do with their emotions can be bad. There's a difference.

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You're missing a variable here. Good parents tend only to beat their children when they do something wrong. It's not exactly haphazard.

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No, you're missing the point. The statement meant that what you said is equivalent to your parents beating you just for being alive even though they say that they love you. They are good parents for beating you. That's the point based on your comments.

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Homosexuality can literally be brought right up to the word 'disease,' and trust me, I tried it.

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So I was right. I did provide you with definitions before. You failed then with the disease thing, which is why I still am not sure if you do know the meaning of homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on virgin though. ;p

What is point in speaking to someone who refuses to listen? I can only hope you keep talking in ever smaller circles and eventually vanish up your own mouthhole.

Edit: Oh yeah, I heard something that made me laugh the other day. Someone fired me of link of some idjit gay bashing for whatever new reason they'd made up. His comment to his link was, "Muslim's have Jihad to make them look bad and we have these sicko's."

~Rico

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Lust is an emotion. Power is NOT an emotion. If lust usually coincided with power, then there would be a lot more rapes going on. It would also mean that some people that have been raped wouldn't have been raped.

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Wording error. While I do believe that lust can coincide with power, undoubtfully, I was not playing 'power' as an emotion. Other, non-emotional things can tie in with them. Murderers are more likely to kill if ya hand 'em a chainsaw, for instance.

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That phrase has nothing to do with lust relating with power. Lust means "an overwhelming desire or craving." Power means "might" or "authority" (in the usage you're using here). While both are nouns, neither are related, nor do they go together usually. There are "fruits" and there is "labor" and there's a phrase called "fruits of labor." The existence of that phrase doesn't mean "fruits" and "labor" go together.

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Emotions are not bad. What people do with their emotions can be bad. There's a difference.

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Got me on both those two points. Dunno what I was thinking. *bows shamefully.*

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Burglary doesn't have to deal with greed. Many times burglary deals with revenge, and other times it deals with survival.

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True, but again an overanalyzation. I never said that it couldn't deal with other things, but greed is the first thing that pops into your head, am I right? And I, for one, consider greediness to be an emotion.

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So I was right. I did provide you with definitions before. You failed then with the disease thing, which is why I still am not sure if you do know the meaning of homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on virgin though. ;p

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Homosexual = Homo (Single) Sexual (The act of having... yeah.) Two guys/two girls.

Heterosexual = Hetero (Iono) Sexual. One guy, one girl.

Bisexual = Bi (Two, such as the binary code of 1s and 0s.) A man or woman who enacts upon both the opposite and same sexes.

Virgin = Yet to have sex in their lifetime.

Trisexual = Hai, luk, a monkie!

I'm unsure what you are trying to get past with this post other than that. If I'm right, this should clear things up:

Main Entry: disease
Pronunciation: di-'zEz
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English disese, from Middle French desaise, from des- dis- + aise ease
1 obsolete : TROUBLE
2 : a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning : SICKNESS, MALADY
3 : a harmful development (as in a social institution)
- diseased /-'zEzd/ adjective

Impairs normal functioning can be translated to using the sexual organs for something against what they were 'designed' for. But, no. Homosexuality is not a disease. I don't go up to a man, poke him, and scream like a giddy school girl yelling, 'i gotz da gai! help!' The dictionary is not a viable source for anything if you don't apply logic to it. THAT is what my point was earlier.

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What is point in speaking to someone who refuses to listen? I can only hope you keep talking in ever smaller circles and eventually vanish up your own mouthhole

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Please, iterate as to how I am not listening? I've already admitted my faults twice in this topic alone, and have yet to see anyone else in this entire thing do the same.

And haphazard, unceremonious insults won't get you very far in my book, and I hope anyone's book. I haven't insulted you once this entire topic, so please refrain from doing the same to me.

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

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but greed is the first thing that pops into your head, am I right?

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No, because most people that I know of that steal do it to survive, not for greed.

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Homosexual = Homo (Single) Sexual (The act of having... yeah.) Two guys/two girls.

Heterosexual = Hetero (Iono) Sexual. One guy, one girl.

Bisexual = Bi (Two, such as the binary code of 1s and 0s.) A man or woman who enacts upon both the opposite and same sexes.

Virgin = Yet to have sex in their lifetime.

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The ONLY definition that's correct is virgin. That's why you don't get it.

Homosexual = an attraction for the same sex/gender. "Homo" means "same"--not single.

Heterosexual = an attraction for the opposite sex/gender. "Hetero" means "different" or "other."

Bisexual = an attraction for both sexes/genders. "Bi" usually means "two" (it can also mean "half").

Sexual = doesn't mean having sex, just the attidude/characteristics of it--which is where you lose out in your attempt at a "disease" as you can be a virgin and homosexual/heterosexual/bisexual/asexual (who are those who aren't attracted to either sex/gender).

It's not either you're a virgin or you're homosexual/heterosexual/bisexual/asexual. It's either you're a virgin or you aren't, but your sexuality has no bearing on whether or not you've actually had sex.

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The dictionary is not a viable source for anything if you don't apply logic to it.

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Actually, nothing is a viable source if you don't apply logic to it. However, your example is flawed and this is the second time I've pointed it out now.

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The ONLY definition that's correct is virgin. That's why you don't get it.

Homosexual = an attraction for the same sex/gender. "Homo" means "same"--not single.

Heterosexual = an attraction for the opposite sex/gender. "Hetero" means "different" or "other."

Bisexual = an attraction for both sexes/genders. "Bi" usually means "two" (it can also mean "half&quot .

Sexual = doesn't mean having sex, just the attidude/characteristics of it--which is where you lose out in your attempt at a "disease" as you can be a virgin and homosexual/heterosexual/bisexual/asexual (who are those who aren't attracted to either sex/gender).

It's not either you're a virgin or you're homosexual/heterosexual/bisexual/asexual. It's either you're a virgin or you aren't, but your sexuality has no bearing on whether or not you've actually had sex.

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I'm sorry, but I'm disagreeing with you. To say the terms homoSEXuality, heteroSEXuality, and biSEXuality are about love, and not sex, is like... a paradox within itself. Would that not be homophilia? But, why the heck are we even having this discussion? It's silly. You know what I'm trying to get across, and I know what you are, so how we say it really shouldn't matter how we say it in the least. Unless you're still confused about something, or I am, or something, let's agree to end this silly game of wordplay, okay?

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

In my own personal opinion based on my own morals, I view homosexuality as something that, deep down i know isnt correct. however, being incorrect in something is a common relation that everyone has. There will allways be a right and wrong according to the human race, it's just a matter of what you are willing to accept as right and wrong. Personally, i believe that it's mailny how people are raised that determains who they are and who they become. Sometimes, it's not the same, because you could have been raised the same a your neighbor, but turns out your neighbor's parrents divorced or something. that one thing can cause a complete change in someones life and how they view it. I have many friends all over the place who are a bit of everything. how am i able to befriend them and relate somehow, and yet i know one friend of mine would probably want to kill one of my other friends because of their beliefs and differences? It's totally odd, and i dont know how i got to the position i am in, but in life ive actually experienced alot, and my viewpoint on things like homosexuality and such are very neutral. I myself am not gay, nor do i have any passion to be that way. I admit, sometimes i am curious, but i do have my own morals, and i keep to them.

As for religion, i am raised catholic. weather i still believe in that to this day is totally unknown. I believe in a divine, a creator or a source of all. something had to create life, or have the right mixture of something to make it. so in turn, i believe in a god, maybe even godlike substance, but something gave life the right tools to exist. I choose to stray away from religions, because to me that is the cause of ignorance. in my own mind, ignorance is a sin, and one of the most deadly. so therefore, ignorance spawns from religion, and religion spawns from ignorance.

Live isnt that hard to live people... i cant see the difficulty. people always want more, and will do anything to get it.

I'm more irked by the fact that the hypocritical Christians makes the rest of us look like that. They're worried that gay marriage rights will corrupt and taint the value of marriage. But then again, 2 out of 3 married couples will get a divorce. And then there's the fact that some will cheat, abuse, disrespect, even kill their spouses. So really, the value of marriage has already been corrupted.

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I'm sorry, but I'm disagreeing with you. To say the terms homoSEXuality, heteroSEXuality, and biSEXuality are about love, and not sex, is like... a paradox within itself.

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Name: Robo
DoB: 7/86
Sex: ... Oh My! o_o

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To say the terms homoSEXuality, heteroSEXuality, and biSEXuality are about love, and not sex, is like... a paradox within itself.

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I'm confused because I don't believe I mentioned "love" anywhere. I do understand that there's more to sexuality than intercourse, do you? That's why sexuality does not mean just intercourse (or sex). There are a lot of things besides sex that are involved in sexuality including love (particularly due to the fact that a lot of people associate sex with love for various reasons), lust, attraction, stimulation, etc. Any one of those things can be the focus for sexuality, which is why sexuality doesn't have to refer to sex (as you're defining it that also ignores the meaning it has that Robobotnik pointed out) itself.

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Would that not be homophilia?

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If talking only about love, that would be the best term for it, sure.

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But, why the heck are we even having this discussion? It's silly. You know what I'm trying to get across, and I know what you are, so how we say it really shouldn't matter how we say it in the least. Unless you're still confused about something, or I am, or something, let's agree to end this silly game of wordplay, okay?

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That's where I disagree with you vehemently. Words have a lot of power and it is extremely important to use them in as correct a manner as possible. That means pointing out whenever anyone uses faulty logic. I don't have a problem with it being done to me either. **shrugs**

If this topic has taught me one things its that the fact that I can't stand people ISN'T my fault. When you break out of tunnel vision (be it something simple like hating the 'nerd' with the weird shirt in grade school. Or something more sinister like nationalism, religion, or anything that prevents you for accepting something different) the people still using it drive you up a wall.

I know its their right but it still irritates me. The aren't that many things I can say "Deep down I know its wrong" about. Barring stuff that hurts another person in some way its all opinion. I ran into this again the other day with a relative of mine saying that the islamic religion is wrong because, "It caused 9/11." I preceeded to attempt to remind them that christianity has killed more people than all the worlds serial murders combined but that doesn't make it "wrong".

That opened the proverbial "can o' worms" of course and as they spewed biblical quotes and denounced certain parts of the bible I involuntarily laughed out loud. I often do this about many of the posts in threads much like this one but this was in public. My opponent was so flabbergasted and humiliated that they just shut up. I wish with all my heart and spirit that laughing at you guys would have the same effect.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

~Rico (crosses fingers)

Eh, nothing wrong with stuff irritating you. There's probably not a single person on this planet that doesn't have at least one thing that irritates him/her.

DAH HAHAHAHA HAH AHAH AH HAH AH AHA HAHHH!

That is all.

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

copycats r teh nub!!1111onmeoneone

I think this topic is mostly pointless , but I will post anyways. I think that gay shouldn't be encouraged, as people should have kids, and reproduce, for the next generation. But I still tolerate gays. I don't think it is right to go out and protest gayism in a giant group on the streets, that wouldn't change anyone's minds so it is pointless. Also posting something on a forum won't change anyone's minds either, really. I think gays should be treated like everyone else, cause they are equal with everyone else. But I am against gay marriage.

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I think that gay shouldn't be encouraged, as people should have kids, and reproduce, for the next generation. But I still tolerate gays.

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Do you have any idea how overpopulated the Earth is right now?

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...gayism...

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Also posting something on a forum won't change anyone's minds either, really.

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Why on Earth did you just do it, then?

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I think gays should be treated like everyone else, cause they are equal with everyone else. But I am against gay marriage.

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That's like saying "I think everyone should eat meat, but I'm a vegetarian."

Wonderbat, that is quite possibly the single best post I've seen from you. I just love the "I think gays should be treated like everyone else, cause they are equal with everyone else. But I am against gay marriage" line, it single handed ruins any credibility he had in the first place. I woulda said "I think blacks should be treated like everyone else, cause they are equal with everyone else. But I am against blacks voting."

:3

~Rwarco

But the difference is Black people have a right to vote. Gay people have no right to marry someone of the same gender. Marriage is a man and Woman, that is the only way it can exsist. Any other way won't work, it will fail.

Yeah, that's why marijuana is safe for Dutch people and not for people in other countries. And black people voting was wrong before it was legal. Duh.

If you're talking about non-legal rights, you're defining other people's rights by your opinions with no logic to back it up, which will not convince anybody who doesn't have the same opinions.

Yeah, that's why driving is safe for blind people and not people with perfect 20/20 vision. And brain dead people voting was wrong before it was legal. Duh.

Different variables, different outcomes, people. People drew the line of what was right back then, and failed miserably. That doesn't mean that you should attempt to change every ideal behind the past cultures. When will it stop? If tomorrow's culture decided to remove the murder taboo, more power to them?

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If you're talking about non-legal rights, you're defining other people's rights by your opinions with no logic to back it up, which will not convince anybody who doesn't have the same opinions.

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"You can proove anything through coldly hard logic."
-Isaac Asimov; I, robot (The book)

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

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Different variables, different outcomes, people. People drew the line of what was right back then, and failed miserably. That doesn't mean that you should attempt to change every ideal behind the past cultures. When will it stop? If tomorrow's culture decided to remove the murder taboo, more power to them?

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You're likening legalizing gay marrige to legalizing murder?

I seriously think you need to get priorities in order to think people would ever let things go that far.

Marriage is a man and Woman, that is the only way it can exsist. Any other way won't work, it will fail.
Please explain.

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Marriage is a man and Woman, that is the only way it can exsist. Any other way won't work, it will fail.

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I trust that you realise that no other group has done more harm to the "sanctity of marriage" than heterosexuals, right? Between divorce, marrying for money, arranged marriages, annulments, blah blah blah, there ain't much 'sanctity' left. I say let homosexuals marry. Heterosexuals alone shouldn't be expected to deal with all the happiness and joy and eventually bitterness and anger that married couples get! Time to share that load! Time for equality and all for better or worse that comes with it!

Anyway, who cares if gays get married? Who cares if gays do anything? We have far more pressing concerns as a species than to be so uptight about what hole certain segments of the population stick it into. War, oil, famine, death, destruction, genocide, drought, whether or not Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes actually had a kid; you name it, it's all more important than 'protecting marriage from TEH GAY'.

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Different variables, different outcomes, people.

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Correct. Different variables will always exist due to different people, different technology, and different ideas coming forth as well. All will result in different outcomes.

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People drew the line of what was right back then, and failed miserably.

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What is "right" and "wrong" always changes. What is "right" in one place in the world is currently "wrong" someplace else. What is "wrong" in one place in the world is currently "right" someplace else. That's not even counting what was once "right" being "wrong" in the past and what was once "wrong" in the past being considered "right" now--and the kicker that all of it can change in a heart beat (relatively speaking).

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That doesn't mean that you should attempt to change every ideal behind the past cultures.

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All past cultures changed ideals of cultures that existed before it. Culture changes all the time. The culture that exists here has changed dramatically and will continue to do so.

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When will it stop?

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When humans no longer exist.

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If tomorrow's culture decided to remove the murder taboo, more power to them?

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Yes, if that's what people in the far off future decide to do. They'll have their reasons.

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Yes, if that's what people in the far off future decide to do. They'll have their reasons.

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Get off my internet.

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

Super Cool Admin: *logical based statement*
Homophobic Lamer: Get off my internet.

The ending tommorrow night at 11. D:

~Rico

Well, I believe when Marriage was created, it was only intended for one man and one woman. If you have something else it wouldn't be a marrage. Sort of like saying, I'm an evolutionist, but I don't believe in evolution. Also Civil Unions between people of the same gender shouldn't be recongnixed by the government. Men are naturally less emotional, problem solving, fighting type people. The Bible puts them as the head of the family. Women are more more emotional, like to express their problems rather than solve them, and befriending type people. I kow the last one has to do with their hormons, cause I heard about an experiment once. Their differences complement each other, leading to a succesful relationship, and love. Homosexuals wouldn't have what heterosexuals naturally have. I don't think the government should approve of homosexual unions cause I don't believe thay would work, and I don't believe they are the best thing, and I have moral problems with them. But I wouldn't not sell my house to someone cause he is gay, or anything.

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Sort of like saying, I'm an evolutionist, but I don't believe in evolution.

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No it's not. At all. Also, kid, evolutionists are generally just called "smart people" =D

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The Bible puts them as the head of the family.

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Yeah, and that's why women aren't allowed to vote, or hold jobs, or-- OH WAIT, yes they can. Good thing we don't listen to the bible on that one, then, huh?

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Their differences complement each other, leading to a succesful relationship, and love.

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And THAT's why there's no such thing as divorce, right? ^__^

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I don't think the government should approve of homosexual unions cause I don't believe thay would work

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Yeah, because heterosexual marriages are working out sooo well right now.

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Men are naturally less emotional, problem solving, fighting type people.... Women are more more emotional, like to express their problems rather than solve them, and befriending type people.

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I need someone to change my gender quick. I must be a man stuck in a woman's body. ;p

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Yeah, that's why driving is safe for blind people and not people with perfect 20/20 vision. And brain dead people voting was wrong before it was legal. Duh.

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I was parodying the legality = right concept. Legality does not equal right unless you base your moral system on the law.

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That doesn't mean that you should attempt to change every ideal behind the past cultures.

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Cultural bias must be questioned. The questioning is what determines its value.

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If tomorrow's culture decided to remove the murder taboo, more power to them?

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Consentual murder should be legal. No future punks are going to outliberal me! I see your taboo and raise you cloning and polygamy.

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"You can proove anything through coldly hard logic."
-Isaac Asimov; I, robot (The book)

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Besides anti-gay marriage arguments, apparently, since I was pointing out that logic was not stated.

Camels are dancing in marmalade to Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody and telling me I am right by moving cubes of air. Oh how zestily monkies perform the backwards macarena.

You are correct, logic can be misued, but what do you propose to be used instead of it?

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Men are naturally less emotional

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That's totally unsupportable. The myth probably comes from society defining the stereotypes it considers masculine as non-emotional, but those stereotypes are quite emotional if you think about it.

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I kow the last one has to do with their hormons, cause I heard about an experiment once.

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Gender diferences are tiny compared to individual diferences.

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Super Cool Admin: *logical based statement*
Homophobic Lamer: Get off my internet.

The ending tommorrow night at 11. D:

~Rico

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The day that the murder taboo is lifted because of a 51% agreement by a bunch of people, apparently not wanting to be stopped by you is just...

Ya know what? If that's the case, screw the Democracy. I'm making a dictatorship. If anyone wants to join, I'll. be. in. my. office.

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

(I don't know how to quote Can someone tell me how?) "Yeah, and that's why women aren't allowed to vote, or hold jobs, or-- OH WAIT, yes they can. Good thing we don't listen to the bible on that one, then, huh?"
The Bible never said that, the Bible treats woman as an equal importance to the male, but the hole genisis story and stuff God put the wife to obey the husband. You can boss around anybody else, but not your husband or wife really, it is complicated. And the whole characteristics of one gender is an average. A guy could be more friendly than a girl, btu a girl has a natural advantage.

Isn't this the exact same argument that this topic is supposed to avoid? All you're saying is that some book says that two guys/girls shouldn't marry and that guys should be treated superiorly to girls.

Press the "quote" button on the left side of the reply screen to use the quote feature, BTW.

If I stood by what I said 3 times already Deck, have the board would be temp banned. Morons equate intolerance with "gayism". Fact of life, now back to something more ON the topic.

I was talking to this guy out here about two days ago, an Indian, a bit of a bottleman but not as bad as most. He had so much bad to say about Islam that it was just scary. Most of which where completely unneeded blanket statements. My response was to inform him that Jihad seems be the Islam equivalent of groups such as the KKK is for christianty. They take what their holy book says out of context to use it against certain people. In the case of Jihad its Americans, and to a lesser degree all capitalist nations. In the case of the KKK its Blacks, and to a lesser degree gays, transvestites, etc.

He looked at me for a few moments as if he was unable to understand what I had just told him, then walked off rather confused. People do that when I actually speak up, of course what was he going to do? Argue the point? Islam is no worse than any other religion. Hell I'm sure even Buddism has its flaws, I just don't know any personally. Haven't done enough research.

~Sick Rico (*heads for bathroom*)

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And the whole characteristics of one gender is an average.

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An average based on what? If you mean based on thousands of years of forcing women and men to act a certain way, then yes that average would be accurate. If you base the average on the way women/men have been acting since the 1970s in the U.S. when it finally became law that women/men must be treated "equally," your average starts to lose credibility as women/men are closing the gap on their so-called "personality differences" with a society that attempts to focus on "equality" for real.