Kerry touched off a political firestorm on Monday at a campaign appearance in California in which he told students at Pasadena City College that if they make the most of their educations, "you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well.
"And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq," he said.
I'm not linking a source. You're all big boys and girls, mostly, I think you can handle searching for news on your own. I'm not letting another one turn into a bash fox news fest in Chat or in the topic.
My only two comments:
a. he stood by it before he turned and apologized. Still flipflopping, I guess.
2. That's really pathetic. How anti-American is it to baselessly insult the ones that bleed and die to serve you? It's one thing to insult the President - he's done plenty of that, too. But it's his right, I guess. - or something, but why go after out soliders with such a stupid remark?
1) What he meant to say was "you get us stuck in Iraq". Meaning Bush.
2) Even though it wasn't what he meant to say, he was technically right. As a general rule, joining the army is something dumb people do. Sorry, but it's true.
3) Still flipflopping, I guess.
4) This is so old.
All i know is that kerry is just a creep that needs to keep his mouth shut. And if he won and we would have pulled the troops out it would show the world that a bunch of misfited criminals could beat the best army in the world. so kerry can just beat up on our soldiers all he wants and it wont do a darn thing. It just makes me hate him even more.
Are you inbred? Seriously.
1) Kerry's anti-military stance is nothing new. And think about the context; The event was at Pasadena City College. Kerry argued that if the Democrats and Angelides are elected, more young people will go to college...thus avoiding the fate of all our "lazy, uneducated" troops. Unmistakable what he meant. You don't need a PhD in linguistics to understand it clearly.
I mean, geez...he's discredited and disparaged the American military for years. During his 1972 run for the House, he said the following:
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"I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown"..."We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.'
He's accused them of being rapists, baby killers, akin to Genghis Khan, terrorizers, and now he's calling them dumb. If he truly meant to refer to Bush, then he should have worded it so that he wouldn't let his anti-military views slip through.
2) Dude. Are you serious? Look a third of the way down.
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-- 49.2 percent of officers have advanced or professional degrees; 39.4 percent have master's degrees, 8.5 percent have professional degrees and 1.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 22.8 percent of company grade officers have advanced degrees; 16.5 percent have master's degrees, 5.9 percent have professional degrees and 0.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 85.4 percent of field grade officers have advanced degrees; 70.7 percent have master's degrees, 12.1 percent have professional degrees and 2.5 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 99.9 percent of the enlisted force have at least a high school education; 73.3 percent have some semester hours toward a college degree; 16.2 percent have an associate's degree or equivalent semester hours; 4.7 percent have a bachelor's degree; 0.7 percent have a master's degree and .01 percent have a professional or doctorate degree.
On the whole, they are smarter than your average American. They are among the best and brightest.
3) Definition of Staying the Course: "not cutting and running BEFORE THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT CAN TAKE CARE OF ITSELF". That's something that's been glanced over in this whole mess; granted, the President's PR is nowhere near as masterful as Clinton's was, it has to be said that Democrats advocated timetables and withdrawal before the Iraqi government was even put into place. Now it has. One of the goals of this war was to give the Iraqi people a chance at self-governance.
Did anyone honestly think we'd be staying there forever? Everyone wants the troops home. But if we withdraw before the Iraqi government can hold its own, we'll see a repeat of the Killing Fields of Cambodia. That's something Democrats (and some Republicans) don't seem to realize when ranting about time tables.
Though I will say the mangling of words on the Administration's part over this recent 'stay the course' incident was groan-inducing.
4) How is less than three days "so old"?
On a side note, these guys are geniuses.
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3) Still flipflopping, I guess.
THE GOOGLE. LMAO. Olberman FTW. I'd heard he showed a ton of clips of Bush saying it but that line just wins it.
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Unmistakable what he meant. You don't need a PhD in linguistics to understand it clearly.
What do you need to understand that he was referring to the stupid mistake of starting the war and not joining the military? Do you remember he was in it himself?
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Though I will say the mangling of words on the Administration's part over this recent 'stay the course' incident was groan-inducing.
Mangling of words? How can you deny either gross incompetence or lying or both?
Ultra Sonic, I notice a third of your statistics refer to the officer corps. Those numbers are in no way representative of the educational status of the military as a whole, which consists mainly of enlisted men. And that last statistic there means that the average military person is pretty well educated, but i'd say it hardly screams "best and brightest".
With regards to staying the course, I believe the chief objections are to the lies and incompetency that got America into the war in the first place. Most people, I feel, including most donkeys, feel that we should still make the best of a bad situation. That little slip of Bush's tongue only seems to underscore just how horrendous the situation is in Iraq now.
You state: "Unmistakable what he meant. You don't need a PhD in linguistics to understand it clearly." And then you go on to say "he should have worded it so that he wouldn't let his anti-military views slip through". You obviously expect anything and everything that comes out of his mouth to be military bashing. How on earth can you claim to be an objective observer?
I'll leave you with a little aphorism that might induce some groans, but I believe the message is relevant: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
On the military. I don't see why we care. It's like the jocks in high school telling you that you're, "Dumb and Gay". You don't argue, you ignore them. Maybe later they'll pull their head outta their ass and make something of themselves. Maybe they won't. Some military guys will return and be normal again. If not you can see them at Wal-Mart, behind the counter, bagging your groceries with all the jocks you hated from highschool. LAWL
As for Kerry. Yeah, he's a donkeyface, his arrogance probably makes him as bad as Bush. Man, can't they at LEAST get someone halfway likeable to run?
~Rico
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2) Even though it wasn't what he meant to say, he was technically right. As a general rule, joining the army is something dumb people do. Sorry, but it's true.
hmmm...
Well I gess tat i shuld considdur misself lukkey that Cycle is hear to halp me wit all dis 'puter stuph...
Tanks Cycle!
On a more serious note, that was a very bigoted statement.
Jimro
Really? With the number of bigoted idea's you have I didn't figure you'd mind it if someone else had one against you. 
On a more serious note, I think Cycle is refering to the fact that the reason most people join the army is because they lacked the academic knowledge to obtain scholarships for college. Not necessarily dumb, just not as academically minded as those that go directly onto college. That doesn't mean they're dumb, but it does mean that there is a distinct difference between the academic abilites of your average college student and your average military recruit.
I'm sure there ARE people that go into the military to become an officer and in fact HAVE that level of studying power, but lets face it, the majority do it because they are, in fact, not booksmart enough to get the scholarships for college. OR simply have no interest in college and think the military is the only way to get training for whatever is it they end up doing. That doesn't mean they're dumb, maybe they don't read well. Maybe they couldn't learn to study because of some hinderdance with their homelife. Noone knows.
Military personal are on average not "Dumb". Nor do the majority of them possess the flare for research and studywork that your average college student has.
Armyboys don't wanna be called dumb anymore than College students wanna be called dorks or wusses. But it happens. It's obvious that not all Military personal are dumb. Jimro and Fexus are examples of that. Saying that all military personal are dumb is just as stupid as the "Gay people are immoral" blanket statement that gets tossed around this cesspool all the time.
~Rico
I think there are just as many stupid people in the military as in any other profession. This includes MG stalkers, although maybe MG stalkers have a higher ratio of crap (Are you inbred? Seriously. Thanks for keep it mature, guys.) programmed into their brain or something, hell if I know.
Anyway on with the snippit-whine.
1) What he meant to say was "you get us stuck in Iraq". Meaning Bush.
Then why did he originally stand by his comments? It was only after even most of his own party told him off did he change his tune, if I recall correctly.
2) Even though it wasn't what he meant to say, he was technically right. As a general rule, joining the army is something dumb people do. Sorry, but it's true.
Response A: Yep! The smart ones join the Air Force.
RB: See other posts in this thread.
3) Still flipflopping, I guess.
I have no relevant comment. Personally I think Bush is wrong to allow himself to be pressured into changing the war plans like this, but I think it's more wrong to deny the whole Stay the Course thing.
4) This is so old.
Well, sorry if I have other things happening that prevent me from making a thread on it within 6 hours of it being news. Any real point here or are you just being you?
Ultra's post
I'm against it anyway, but you're about as crazy as Kerry if you think no American soldiers everkilled civilians, ever trafficked drugs, ever raped innocents...However, that never was nearly like Kerry makes it out to be. The Army is not just full of rapists and thugs.
Ultra Sonic, I notice a third of your statistics refer to the officer corps.
And the fourth covers all enlisted personell. Point?
On a more serious note, I think Cycle is refering to the fact that the reason most people join the army is because they lacked the academic knowledge to obtain scholarships for college.
So it's a job to pay for college(through scholoarships and/or paycheck)? So? Go look up what percent of college graduates took up jobs to pay through college because scholarships didn't pay for it.
Lastly, some of the smartest peope I know are in teh military. That includes my father; watch it. Blanket statements like that only make one look like the kind of person they're describing: An idiot.
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3) Still flipflopping, I guess.
I have no relevant comment.
Neither did Cyc, but that didn't stop him.
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All i know is that kerry is just a creep that needs to keep his mouth shut.
Agreed, although I don't know if your family has the personal experience of Kerry that mine does (which isn't by any means extensive, but enough).
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Are you inbred? Seriously.
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What do you need to understand that he was referring to the stupid mistake of starting the war and not joining the military? Do you remember he was in it himself?
Yeah, he even got some medals. He can show you them. Oh, wait. No he can't. He doesn't have them anymore. He threw them over a fence at the U.S. Capitol in 1972. Hm, yeah. About that.
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As for Kerry. Yeah, he's a donkeyface, his arrogance probably makes him as bad as Bush. Man, can't they at LEAST get someone halfway likeable to run?
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Lastly, some of the smartest peope I know are in teh military. That includes my father; watch it. Blanket statements like that only make one look like the kind of person they're describing: An idiot.
Cyc didn't say that people who join the military are often stupid. He said that people who are stupid often join the military. And yes, it is different.
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This is so old.
No, it's not. The speech was given a mere four days before SX posted it. Thank you, though, for submitting a prime examples of one of the most popular annoying responses on the internets.
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Mangling of words? How can you deny either gross incompetence or lying or both?
Competence is relative term. Bush has a difficult job, and I know he does a much better job than I'd do.
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I'm against it anyway, but you're about as crazy as Kerry if you think no American soldiers everkilled civilians, ever trafficked drugs, ever raped innocents...However, that never was nearly like Kerry makes it out to be. The Army is not just full of rapists and thugs.
Not at all (humans are humans, unfortunately). The levels have been exaggerated, however. To do it in the way Kerry did was utterly dishonorable.
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Really? With the number of bigoted idea's you have I didn't figure you'd mind it if someone else had one against you.
Hmmm...
Why don't you list all my bigoted ideas Rico? Oh wait, if I were racist/sexist/agist or any un PC ism that is the cause celeb du jour I could be banned from the MoFo. Since I haven't been banned it means that I must have not put forth any behavior worth being banned...
If nothing else such a list would make for an interesting read.
Jimro
Cyc didn't say that people who join the military are often stupid. He said that people who are stupid often join the military. And yes, it is different.
If you're dumb, you don't go to college. And if you don't go to college, you don't get a good job. And if you don't get a good job, chances are you'll end up in the army. And if you're in the army, you're probably going to get at least one tour of duty in Iraq.
That, and also joining the army is just a dumb thing to do if you have a future in anything else. It's like, "hmmm, I could go to university and begin a lucrative career, but I think I'd rather risk getting blown up by some jihadist nutcase on the other side of the world." I know plenty of very smart people who have joined the military, but smart people still do dumb things.
On a more serious note, that was a very bigoted statement.
Uh, no. Joining the military is a choice people make. That's like saying I'm a bigot because I don't like people who smoke.
Decisions done today have consequences for tomorrow. History has so many examples on the matter. Kerry's not the only one who's opposed to the war and it's management. He's not the first and he won't be the last one.
However, Kerry's comment (for me at least) is nothing less than a joke. I'm not aware of his previous comments on the subject but since we are commenting on his "joke", I can only say one thing about it: Why can't we just get along for a change and laugh at the joke instead of saying "oh no! Kerry's insulting the army again! (insert frown faces and death threats here)!?
No, it's not. The speech was given a mere four days before SX posted it. Thank you, though, for submitting a prime examples of one of the most popular annoying responses on the internets.
That wasn't my point. I realize it's only a few days ago, but it's just so minor and irrelevant and pointless. I was just trying to point out how exasparating American politics are. This is a total non-issue and all it does is distract people from real issues like the economy, the environment, social security, health care, immigration, and energy.
Politician: *minor slip of the tongue, joke, or politically-incorrect statement*
Opponent: HOLY SH-T GUYS DID YOU HEAR THAT
Pundit: ZOMG INSULTING THE TROOPS
CNN: THIS JUST IN: POLITICIAN HATES AMERICA?
Pundit: I HEAR HE'S INTO CHILD PORN
CNN: THIS JUST IN: POLITICIAN RAPES CHILDREN?
*dogpile, week-long mudfight*
Cycle,
You didn't say "joining the military, in my humble opinion, is a dumb choice made by otherwise smart people" you said "joining the military is something dumb people do".
No need to mince words. You wrote it, own it.
Jimro
You didn't say "joining the military, in my humble opinion, is a dumb choice made by otherwise smart people" you said "joining the military is something dumb people do".
Both statements, in my opinion, are true. I think the majority of people currently joining the US military are not all that smart.
Also you forgot the part where I said "as a general rule".
Cycle...
The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging.
I estimate your IQ to be easily over 125, probably pushing 140 depending on the test you take.
Statistically you are smarter than most service members.
However, statistically your average US servicemember is smarter than the average US citizen of the same demographic.
The fact that a bunch of people choose to risk their lives by joining a military at war does not mean they are stupid. It means they have a different value of what is important.
You would choose a lucrative career. That is fine, capitalists are great. They make money and create jobs.
We chose to serve, the same reason cops and firefighters serve. We all risk our lives for something other than a paycheck. As smart as you are I don't think that you can understand that since it doesn't seem to be a part of your native value system.
Just like intelligent people can have faith that conflicts with your atheist beliefs, you probably can't understand why we believe. Many with faith can't comprehend why you don't believe. It doesn't make anyone dumb, just different.
Jimro
You're right. I'll try to be more mature from now on. Also this line of discussion is not really where I wanted to go with this.
What I'd rather be talking about is, is it a good thing that this is still a subject of discussion several days after the fact? Why are we still talking about that idiot Kerry? What does this tell us about the health of political discourse in America?
Well, aparently we don't have anything better to do than argue over Kerry's comments. Also, this is like a week before midterm elections; anything politcal is hot news. If this were a year ago it'd make an interesting page-three paragraph.
Also; if he's saying idiots - in particular college dropouts or people that don't go to college. I say that because of where the speech was and from some other words he said - are the ones that get us stuck in Iraq, then it still doesn't work - Doesn't bush have a college degree or two?
Because I can't think of a better word I'll be HSW for a second: "Asscovery."
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Uh, no. Joining the military is a choice people make. That's like saying I'm a bigot because I don't like people who smoke.
But is bigotry limited only to ascribed labels? Can't you be a bigot of something people choose, especially if you don't believe in free will (i.e. people are products of brain and socialization)?
I'm a bigot and IMO everybody is a bigot and most are just too intimidated by the negative reaction to the word to admit it. Unless they are totally tolerant of EVERYTHING people do or believe, which is pretty rare. And tolerant is relative and up to interpretation.
I've gotta go with Jimro on the "list of bigoted statements" though. He certainly hasn't made many that I've seen in quite a while. Sure, he must be one in the sense that I use, being a human with opinions, but that seems like an unfair accusation.
Vec, if you REALLLLY want me to. I can. Though why you guys are all overreacting is beyond me. Jimro's just getting defensive because this is a topic that affects him like the anti-gay topics affect me.
If you want the truth, it's rather ironic to watch him have to endure Cycle blanket statment bashing his whole career like he did my life. I see noone noticed that I actually tried to moderate the discussion though, course noone notices the good things, eh?
~Rico
I noticed.
Since you spelled it out, I understand what you mean. That is an interesting way to look at it.
Rico,
PM me with the list, please.
Jimro
When Sparky lets me, I will.
~Rico
lol
? What's funny, Cycle?
There's no such thing as a minority speaker.
Rico, has Sparky given you time to compile that list?
Jimro
No. He's in a bad situation right now, I'm not going into the personal problems of a little kid on here. I'll get back to you when I give two @#%$.
~Rico
