Actually I do agree. I know some VERY hard working mexicans that never got ANYTHING for their work.

Just like the others they're going to through their own NINA phase. I hope it clears soon and the bigotry ends for 'em.

~Rico

Didn't we have a topic on this recently?

Of course, I mean MG recently, which can be anything up to like a year ago.

I don't remember...

I don't see anyone coming in here and saying "I love the way they're treated!"

Hmm..free health care to pregnent Mexican women, to the point where some hospitals in Texas are requiring residents to include several credit hours of spanish...

The worst thing that happens to an illegal if they get caught is a free lunch and a trip south of the border...

SO just who is mistreating mexicans?

Jimro

The people who use their illegal status as blackmail to pay them illegal wages. The same people who by doing so are building unemployment, cheating the tax base, not having to pay benefits, and probably using the government for all kinds of welfare for themselves.

I have free healthcare. Would you like to trade doctor's Jimmy?

I don't think you do.

~Rico

You know, on the topic of mexicans, you're apparently more likely to hear Spanish in a restaurant kitchen than any other language. I'm talking about the places that the likes of Boulud, Ducasse etc run... places where no immigrant should be seen coming in the front door.

But I think the last thing they want is some pinche gringo feeling sorry for them.

They cook and clean and do all the dirty little things we're unwilling to do. The least we can do is pay them well and pay them a kind of quiet respect.

Quote:

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I don't see anyone coming in here and saying "I love the way they're treated!"

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[lie]I love the way they're treated![/lie]

So what you guys are really protesting are those that exploit illegal immigrants. Me too, it is unethical and illegal.

But until border security and immigration reform happen in a meaningful way, underhanded employers will still hire illegals at sweatshop prices.

Rico, I also get free health care, wanna trade doctors? I don't know which would be worse, an Army doc or a BIA doc.... Except most of the time I don't see a doc, I see a PA.

Jimro

Here's a solution. Let the market dictate illegal immigration. Require businesses to pay them minimum wage AND benefits AND put an extra tax on hiring illegal immigrants so that they're more expensive to hire than citizens. Create some kind of amnesty system for whistleblowers so that blackmail can't be used, and illegal immigrants won't take any jobs away, but can stay on jobs that require them (if the idea that Americans won't take those jobs is true), AND you save a bundle on INS enforcement. Think of it, a green card reward for any illegal who reports illegal underpayment of illegals. The tax base increase would be huge too.

Huh? Are you serious?

Jimro

Mostly. Of course you could only give amnesty to one whistleblower per business, or else you'd have a huge increase in legal guest workers. And you'd still need border security, but having illegal hiring reported by the hirees would be cheaper than having to investigate the employers.

I'm not seeing what the problem would be, but then I'm not too familiar with immigration. So either I'm missing something, or maybe I gave the impression that we wouldn't need the INS at all, which isn't what I meant, just that whistleblowers with benefits are cheaper than having to search out illegal employers.

Veckums,

Your proposal has a few flaws.

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Require businesses to pay them minimum wage AND benefits AND put an extra tax on hiring illegal immigrants so that they're more expensive to hire than citizens. Create some kind of amnesty system for whistleblowers so that blackmail can't be used, and illegal immigrants won't take any jobs away, but can stay on jobs that require them (if the idea that Americans won't take those jobs is true), AND you save a bundle on INS enforcement. Think of it, a green card reward for any illegal who reports illegal underpayment of illegals. The tax base increase would be huge too.

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First, that employers who are currently hiring illegal aliens, WHICH IS ALREADY AGAINST THE LAW, will suddenly stop hiring illegal aliens when the law says that they will have to pay them more... Your proposal guarantees that the people who are currently breaking the law will continue to do so, and assumes that illegals (who often travel in family groups) will suddenly start screwing their buddy out of a job.

The second problem is "doing the jobs Americans won't do" The reason why Americans won't take jobs picking lettuce is because in many areas it isn't an hourly wage, it is a wage per bushel or basket or whatnot, and increasing the basic wage of such agricultural projects only ensure that small farmers go out of business and ConAgra gets bigger. However, having WORKED beside many LEGAL migrant workers (who was it that called me a bigot wrapped in a flag?), the food and fiber industry isn't hiring many illegals. Farmers have too much to lose by hiring illegals, and there is no shortage of LEGAL workers. You see illegals hurt legal immigrant's job prospects too.

The bulk of illegals are hired by much smaller operators; landscapers, general contractors, pretty much anyone who needs a temporary unskilled labor force for one or two contracts and who can cut those employees loose afterwards. The whole WalMart fiasco made big news because it was an anomoly. Big business, like small farmers has too much to lose by hiring illegals.

Jimro

The truth is, there's an entire underground slavery movement around the world. Mexicans, Chinese, Africans - you name it. I'm willing to bet that there is at LEAST one all-American family out there who has a "servant" whom they bought from a dealer who doesn't get paid and has to sleep in the basement.

In fact, this brings to mind a local incident where only a stabbing brought any attention to the fact that there were Chinese and Mexican immigrant slaves holed up at this hovel on the outskirts of town that were brought in daily to work at a very popular Chinese buffet...

So hell yes, the Mexicans are mistreated. But don't forget the Chinese and the Africans. They've been smacked around, too. :/

Bull.
You get what you pay for. There are some hard working white people in the exact same situation.
They're also called ILLEGAL ALIENS. There was man down south that had gone to McDonalds and ordered a biscuit and coffee EVERYDAY for the last 10 years or so. So often, that they often had it ready for him when he got there. Then, they hired and illegal alien. He walks in, asks for his order, and gets the reply 'Breakfast?' About 5 times.
Oh, and lest we forget the native Americans, who are basically going extinct, meanwhile the number of mexicans and african americans rises exponentially every year.
And those illegal aliens OFFER to work for such little pay, that's why they get the work.
Here's an interesting thing: A Jewish man group up in poor neighborhood filled with others of his faith and african americans. He worked and got out of this neighborhood, and soon went back to visit about 20 years. All the Jews had left. The african americans remained. I'm sure the white man is keeping them down, right?
I'm not making any statements about any ethnicity here, but these stories are true. Make your own conclusions. And yes, I realise that these are isolated incidents, but that does make it any less notable.
Chew on that for awhile.

If ethnicity is not what you're commenting on in your examples, praytell, what is?

I believe he is commenting on cultural values and norms. Jews and Asians have a reputation for working hard to master skilled labor or white collar jobs.

Also the point that some cultures perpetuate a sense of entitlement and victimhood to blame "the man" for their own shortcomings.

Which is why I don't want a huge flux of Mexicans into the US, I've seen what happened to Mexico. I don't want a sudden influx of any immigrant group so that the net effect is that they transplant their native culture and inherent problems into our country.

We have our OWN problems thank you very much, don't need other folks bringing theirs to add too the list. Give folks time to assimilate, learn english and really understand what it means to live in the land of the free.

Jimro

Wait. I thought this topic was about Mexicans. Not illegal immigrants. I believe there is a difference.

I asked who was mistreating "Mexicans" and the answer seemed to be those that are exploiting illegal immigrants.

Legal immigrants are no longer "mexicans" any more than I am "Norwegian" or "Scottish".

Jimro

My father in-law is Mexican. He came over when he was 16 years old and worked in the fields picking fruit. He is now 40+ years old, and owns 14 restaurants and makes an insane amount of money.

point is, he came over, worked hard, and made something of himself. On his own.

I've worked in factories and construction sites with Hispanic immigrants (not just from Mexico but Honduras, El Salvador yadda yadda). Most live in huge groups, usually a trailor, share the bills and rent pay and send the majority of their paycheck back to their families at home. so they only make $5.50 and hour...calculate the exchange rate of what ever country they are from and you've got a good chunk of change.

That practice bleeds our economy but they are very rarely over here for good. They just pop over here, save up money and leave.

ALSO yes they get crappy jobs... what the heck do you expect when you go to a country not even knowing how to ask where the bathroom is in their language? I don't speak a single word in Chinese, but I guess I'll move to China and try to get a great job with great pay. right...
I lost count of the times a Mexican would walk up to me and grunt and point instead of ask for a pen.
"Hey, can you help me over here?" I'd ask. "Que'?"
"Can you help me?" "Que'? No est blahblahblahblaho"
"iAAAAARGH!"

I see it this way: someone has to go pick those grapes.
I feel bad now because my grandma used to pick grapes.