... uh, since when are teachers rich? What magical country do you live in?

Also how dare we increase the wages of those who raise and educate our children 😯

I don't think it's too Far-fetched to believe there are rich teachers in other countries...

And while it's nice that their doing a good thing by teaching children, there are probably other people in other jobs that require doing nice things that need the money more.

Plus, they may have taken that position from someone who was better qualified just because they were friends with someone in the ministry of education. So that makes them even LESS deserving to me...

$96,000 (us) a year teachers? perhaps in the realm of super head teachers/principals etc but run of the mill teachers?! which "my country" are you from?

I think the problem with the situation is that these teachers are being paid that much while having to teach classes of up to 60 kids minimum per class, among other issues.  There also seemed to be some issues with connections in the government granting these jobs to people, making the rich richer while keeping others out of those jobs.  Sounds like a misappropriation of funds.

But hey, that's all I was able to glean from when Mada brought this up in the chat.  She was pretty upset at the time so it was hard to make sense of exactly what the issues behind this were, especially without revealing her country of origin.

I figure we pay a babysitter $10-15 an hour to deal with the screaming hobgoblins we sire (this is not a royal "we", I do not have children).  Now multiply that by the number of kids per class (most times 15-20 students, 6 classes per day), plus 6-7 hours of actual kid-sitting time for day.  Now multiply that with 5 days a week, 40 weeks a year.

I'd say $8,000 seems fair.  At standard babysitting rates, they'd be millionaires.

I figure we pay a babysitter $10-15 an hour to deal with the screaming hobgoblins we sire (this is not a royal "we", I do not have children).  Now multiply that by the number of kids per class (most times 15-20 students, 6 classes per day), plus 6-7 hours of actual kid-sitting time for day.  Now multiply that with 5 days a week, 40 weeks a year.

I'd say $8,000 seems fair.  At standard babysitting rates, they'd be millionaires.

Then what about all the other teachers who teach kids old enough to not need a babysitter?

What, your high-schoolers and junior high-schoolers?

Right, like anyone'd feel comfortable leaving a 12-17 year old to their own devices for 7 hours a day 9 months out of the year.  They'd go around being hooligans, listening to devil music and eating all the drugs!

In all seriousness, the fact that people in this country are displaying the same amount of fury towards school-teacher salaries that they did to the Wall Street CEO bonuses back in 2009 (guess what: those bonuses got bigger since then) is mind-boggling for a variety of reasons.

What, your high-schoolers and junior high-schoolers?

Right, like anyone'd feel comfortable leaving a 12-17 year old to their own devices for 7 hours a day 9 months out of the year.  They'd go around being hooligans, listening to devil music and eating all the drugs!

In all seriousness, the fact that people in this country are displaying the same amount of fury towards school-teacher salaries that they did to the Wall Street CEO bonuses back in 2009 (guess what: those bonuses got bigger since then) is mind-boggling for a variety of reasons.

Mada isn't American...

In all seriousness, the fact that people in this country are displaying the same amount of fury towards school-teacher salaries that they did to the Wall Street CEO bonuses back in 2009 (guess what: those bonuses got bigger since then) is mind-boggling for a variety of reasons.

Mada isn't American...

She's also not the only one who posted in this thread agreeing that teachers could be considered to be overpaid.  However, I couldn't necessarily tell you which country each of them were from.

DW

What, your high-schoolers and junior high-schoolers?

Right, like anyone'd feel comfortable leaving a 12-17 year old to their own devices for 7 hours a day 9 months out of the year.  They'd go around being hooligans, listening to devil music and eating all the drugs!

In all seriousness, the fact that people in this country are displaying the same amount of fury towards school-teacher salaries that they did to the Wall Street CEO bonuses back in 2009 (guess what: those bonuses got bigger since then) is mind-boggling for a variety of reasons.

Mada isn't American...

Ah, well then, my mistake.

My point still stands re: current US attitudes regarding teachers, but I suppose that's something for another thread in the now defunct Marble Garden...

I agree, US teachers don't get paid enough.  But in Mada's country it's been politicized, and they are apparently teaching classes much larger than the ones we have here generally.

Now, one could argue that teaching 60+ kids in a single class is worth that much, but one could also argue that you could spend that money towards getting more teachers and building/classroom spaces so you can get smaller classes and better education, instead.

More teachers would boost employment too yeah.

Can't see why they can't just employ more teachers for smaller pay, spreading out the work load more and covering their backs for the inevitable sick/maternity/etc leave. And also as terg said, improving the quality of education they are able to provide.

Certainly better than employing few superteachers earning an amount even a doctor might get jealous of while probably suffering some horrible levels of stress. I know if i had to teach a class of 60 on my own I'd be having a meltdown before break, no matter how large my payslip is at the end of the week.

Providing the cost of living allows for the pay to be lowered enough while still recognising the teacher's skills, of course.

my country has to be the stupidiest country in the world.
who'd in their right mind give school teachers 8000 us dollars a month?!

**twitches**

I'm going to keep my mouth shut because it is obvious you have no clue how much work goes into being a teacher, nor do you get the importance of government services by the rest of your commentary and I'll start ranting if I start.

BTW, CTSucks, I used to not get the whole "why do older kids need to be watched as much as the younger ones" until my senior year of undergraduate education as a student at Columbia University. After never closing for even one day despite actual blizzards, they were finally forced to do it once. If so called "good & smart" young adults (mainly between 18-21) are going to act like idiots because of a snow day, it answered my question clearly why teenagers need the supervision as well.

BTW, Terg, teaching has been politicized everywhere. It's very politicized in the US and I'm sure it is elsewhere.

BTW, Bunanigans, depending on the certification requirements, teachers have to get just as much of an education as a doctor. Teaching is as much of a profession as medical work. Depending on where one happens to work or their chosen application of their profession has a lot to do with their pay whether one is a teacher (such as myself) or a doctor (such as my older sister).

I think that the structure of the current educational system in the US needs to be reworked (national standards? What if the demands of the local economy or the local culture require different material? What if the schools in District A have to use a different approach to teaching because the one used by District B isn't working? Oh wait, we'll lose funding if we don't do it that way? Wait, hold up! And so on), but one can't look at schools in general as a singular part of the equation, because many of the factors related to the stress of teaching have to do with the people you have to teach.

General rule of thumb: Parents involved with their children academically (need help figuring this out? Sure ol' boy, ask away! Ooh, I've forgotten this one. Here boy, I'll show you how to look it up, so you can do it yourself later! And so on) usually tends toward students giving teachers an easier time (INCREDIBLY generalized, I know). As compared to a parent that doesn't bother to, well, parent, who then bothers to get indignant at the teacher when their child doesn't perform well.

On some level, I can understand why there's a big push for cutting back on pensions and benefits for public workers (because hey, a lot of states and counties and municipalities are broke), but wages haven't risen with inflation (maybe because food and energy prices aren't factored into the measure of inflation by the Federal Reserve, but hey, what do I know), so people are understandably gonna be upset when their wages are asked to be cut.

There's a lot of problems that are interconnected and have been coming this way (at least, so far as America's concerned) for a long time. Things are going to come to a head, and there's going to be a lot of pain before it's all said and done. A lot more pain.

It's mathematically inevitable.

Note how I never said that teachers are less qualified than doctors, nor said that it is any less of a job. While I am pretty tactless so it may have came out that way, that wasn't what I meant at all.

I just arbitarily chose doctors as a high earning profession. I was specifically thinking GPs but I wasn't sure if they use that term in the US so I oversimplified it somewhat. I could have picked any high pay job - it just seemed the closest. Probably a mistake on my part, but communication has never been a forte of mine.

But hey considering the lack of facts I was working off in the first place GPs probably earn less than I ever thought anyway. And since I bet someone is going to frown at me about this anyway; if my idea on what GPs earn is right I think they earn a little too much. Well, until the reforms hit them anyway, I definately don't envy that one. And teachers definately earn too little. In the UK anyway. But that isn't here or there really.

One day I'll be able to use words properly. One day 🙁

Duly noted, TR.  I was using the term because that's the way Mada used it, like public schoolteachers being handpicked by people they know in the government.  Come to think of it though, I have never thought that much about it happening here.

Just to throw a flashbang into the room and dance back giggling, what of the report by a Harvard economist (not an education researcher studying test scores, but an economist studying economic outcomes) that says, based on their impact on creating a high-paying work force and a strong economy, a good kindergarten teacher ought to be paid $320,000?

http://www.nytimes.com/20...economy/28leonhardt.html

My point still stands re: current US attitudes regarding teachers, but I suppose that's something for another thread in the now defunct Marble Garden...

Technically, it's not defunct; it just doesn't show up on the main page.

You can still access it via Forum Jump.

Or by clicking this.

Anything you can post at MG can be posted as general, so it is sort of like they are merged.

Just to throw a flashbang into the room and dance back giggling, what of the report by a Harvard economist (not an education researcher studying test scores, but an economist studying economic outcomes) that says, based on their impact on creating a high-paying work force and a strong economy, a good kindergarten teacher ought to be paid $320,000?

http://www.nytimes.com/20...economy/28leonhardt.html

Salaries are a product of perceived supply and demand and sometimes nepotism, so I'm skeptical of any of these "equivalent salary" stories. I certainly believe the economic benefit they provide is at least as much as said and probably more, but how do you even measure it if salaries are not related to economic benefit in the first place?

Teachers should be paid considerably more in the US, so at first the salaries Mada mentioned sound as if a positive, but consider that her country may have different standards of salaries and these teachers could be promoted primarily by nepotism.

I agree with you Vec. I included it more as a thought exercise to counter the idea that teachers might be overpaid than anything else.

I have to say, this conversation would be much easier if this mysterious country sonicsfan1991 is supposedly from had a name.

I have to say, this conversation would be much easier if this mysterious country sonicsfan1991 is supposedly from had a name.

It's a bit of a mystery, yes, but if you look at the clues, you can figure it out.

I have to say, this conversation would be much easier if this mysterious country sonicsfan1991 is supposedly from had a name.

It's a bit of a mystery, yes, but if you look at the clues, you can figure it out.

She's private about it and if you do guess try not to say until she wants it to be said.

Note how I never said that teachers are less qualified than doctors, nor said that it is any less of a job. While I am pretty tactless so it may have came out that way, that wasn't what I meant at all.

That wasn't the impression I got from your post. I was referring to your comment about employing more at a lower pay. I was pointing out that might not always be feasible using the doctor example you gave. Even though there are so many factors that go into everything involving careers, at least in the US, a lot of people go into debt getting all the graduate degrees that are required for their profession. Part of the "high pay" that certain professions get is also to enable the people to pay back their original debt and survive. I am a rarity in my job => a teacher without student loans to pay. It took my older sister (doctor) over a decade to pay off her loans. My younger sister (also a teacher) is going to be paying off her loan for awhile.

i was really upset with this cause i knew what that meant, things got really really bad for me we were down to our last buck.. i swear it was so stressful and scary not knowing how to pay bills and groceries. but luckly i was not the only one that got upset most the country did a lot complained and at least now we'll all get holiday and vacation bounses for the first time in our history.
though they could do much better than that our population is very very very little compared to our land and country wealth.
as for 8k for teachers, it would be fine if everyone got paid that stupidly high but what they're doing now is giving the new generations ideas to all be teachers. which is something i think my country has enough of. they should inspire other fields... there's a huge list of flaws in the way things are run.
anyway i'm going to stop envying those teachers, even if i dont think its fair, its their luck, god gives who he wants and all that right? but i'm still not happy about how the rest of us get nothing.

oh also about where i live XD its true i keep it secert unless someone guesses it since i love guessing games (though please dont try it).
but i rather not .. its not important or nice to know anyway smiley: tired but if you want to know it for this topic all i can say is, its a 3rd world country that only just advanced with cars computers and houses, so the thinking is behind times it hasnt catched up to the rest of the world. it will no doubt but it worries me that that wont happen till after my generation and i want to live in a good age now.

and sorry for not continuing this topic before i was really having a rough time smiley: roll its better now though .

Hm, was wondering where you disappeared to.

My previous post was just a joke anyway, I don't have the slightest clue where you live and I suppose there's no need for any of us to know... except that in this thread, that kind of information might have gone far in explaining some of the cultural differences we're seeing. In the U.S. teachers often seem to get the short end of the stick when it comes to job security, salaries, compensation, etc... when you consider how important they are to the intellectual well-being of the country's youth. I suppose it's the same in other countries as well... your topic just kind of hit a bit of a sore spot with some folks.

I should probably stop... I really don't have much insight on these matters and I feel foolish trying to discuss them openly.

our education is very bad though. its not like they're worth the pay.
infact any other country has better education than us, its been proven by westren studies that we're so bad that we're second worse in math among all the countries in the world. even countries without internet did better than us. our materials are so outdated that we cant use them in real life our university degrees in any other place mean nothing. at least our public schools, there are american and british schools here but they're just for native english speaker students who live here. their books are much much better so i understand why americans feel bad about getting paid less its unfair to them really. we should exchange teachers.

and i dont mean to talk badly about my country its just a fact i worked with the education council i know what passes and what doesnt. though that's why we send a lot of students to finish school abroad. if we thought our education was good everyone would have a job by now.

I'd bet you 100 bucks it's still better than the education we have here in georgia.

Or Mississippi for that matter. I heard a while back that at one of the high schools, junior high students didn't know what a proper sentence was.

I sleep walked through my high school English classes. You know it's bad when you can write a paper entitled "How to Defuse a Bomb" and get full credit. Even better one of my friends wrote one about how to escape from jail using the movie The Mask as an example.

I suppose I was fortunate enough to get an education at a high school that cared somewhat about whether or not the students learned anything.

Those still exist?

Well, I did go to it in the early Naughties, between 2001 and 2005 before the education system got really bad.

I came out of there as valedictorian, and there was only a tenth of a point GPA difference between myself and the top five seniors. Half the people in my graduating class were honor grads.

I dread to think about what it'll be like when my little cousin hits high school.

*shudder*

waaaaa guys! i idolize america dont ruin my beautiful fantasy.

that's funny uni, you'd think things would get better now in education than worse. for my generation our books were in black and white without pictures and full of typos and repeated prints (and i mean all grades were like that even first grade). just last year they changed them into colorful easy to read books. i'm going to be one of those moms that tells their kids how better they have it today in a few years huh :tired

and dont worry about your cousin uni you can always put them in private schools or send them to boarding schools somewhere

Sailor Unicron wrote:

---

Well, I did go to it in the early Naughties, between 2001 and 2005 before the education system got really bad.

I came out of there as valedictorian, and there was only a tenth of a point GPA difference between myself and the top five seniors. Half the people in my graduating class were honor grads.

I dread to think about what it'll be like when my little cousin hits high school.

*shudder*

I graduated in 2007 and my school was still pretty bad. I sleepwalked my way through high school. I had about a 3.5 gpa though, but mostly because it was so easy to get high marks in absolutely everything.

you're much younger than me hukos, i gratuated on the dark year of 2001..... omg i'm so old

I wish I could still sleepwalk through class.

I consider it a miracle if I come out of my college classes with a C.

College classes suck.

Curiosity got the better of me and I did a Google search on "8000 monthly teacher salary"

Overwhelmingly, advertisements for Chinese positions came up in the search. o.o

omg! the mofo can post! its alive the site is alive!!!!

Sailor Unicron posted
I wish I could still sleepwalk through class.

I consider it a miracle if I come out of my college classes with a C.

College classes suck.
Visit the testable new board at http://mobiusforum.net ~ request your new password from an admin in the YukuChat!

I read that as testies

What is wrong with me

What is wrong with me

you been chatting with me for too long

but i rather not .. its not important or nice to know anyway but if you want to know it for this topic all i can say is, its a 3rd world country that only just advanced with cars computers and houses, so the thinking is behind times it hasnt catched up to the rest of the world.

Actually, telling us you are from a recently-advancing third-world country (which in a way already casts your posts in sort of a new light) is of almost as much value to conversations on this site as going into detail would have been... further details would probably not add much more of value to its implications for your posts anyway.

Regardless, Mada doesn't want to reveal what country exactly she is from, so if people stopped prying then that would best respect her wishes.

Regardless, Mada doesn't want to reveal what country exactly she is from, so if people stopped prying then that would best respect her wishes.

Of course. My point was already in favour of assuming that she told us enough.

Way I read it was that what she said said enough as it was, so she might as well just say everything else about her

*rubs pachman's shoulders suggestively* what ever my dear says is true

Way I read it was that what she said said enough as it was, so she might as well just say everything else about her

Ah, well that explains your response. Though I really would have thought my "further details would not add much value" wording would have made my point clear. o.o

i'm really surprised at how many people want to know where i am, is it cause you really like me or cause i'm so strange you need a reason or or is it cause it sounds intersting?

i dont know what i'd do if i was in your position, i apologize mofo forum for being private about it. its really for the best.

i'm really surprised at how many people want to know where i am, is it cause you really like me or cause i'm so strange you need a reason or or is it cause it sounds intersting?

i dont know what i'd do if i was in your position, i apologize mofo forum for being private about it. its really for the best.

No need to apologize, really. It's just that knowing you are from a recently-developing third-world country casts some of your posts in a new light.