A NASA rocket was intentionally fired into the permanently shadowed crater Cabeus on the Moon's southern polar region last month. The crashing of the rocket revealed the existence of water on the Moon and being the MASSIVE geek that I am, I'm very excited by this news. Sure, it's not as exciting as possible confirmation of life on Mars - but who cares? 
NASA claims that not only was water confirmed on the Moon, but a 'significant amount' of it too. And I STRONGLY believe that wherever there's water, there's LIFE! 
Even if nothing more than microbial life is found on the Moon, it would still be a revolutionary discovery. We live in exciting times! 
It took 'em a whole month after crashing the satellites to confirm the existence of water? I know they have to check, re-check, double and triple check so that they don't jump the gun and announce something until they were sure... but a whole month?
Oh well. The real question is... will this discovery be enough to jump start the return trip to the moon NASA's been talking about for years? With the nation's economy the way it is, I wonder if such a project would even be bankrolled.
^ China will probably get to the Moon before the US gets the chance to make a return trip there. China's not in anywhere NEAR as much debt as the US, plus they've got a kickass space program goin' on.
we all knew they're gonna shoot the moon <cough..base>
Yeah, this is pretty cool especially seeing as how astronomy is my favorite scientific subject. Hm, I wonder if we will find any 
%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl= http://flickr.com/photos/7379963%40N04/3203057229&usg=__KL9-GqeSPult-TvJ8CqGPOkAF-U=&h=500&w=390&sz=121&hl=en&start=41&um=1&tbnid=PDM3SIC8Z0ztmM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGidney%2B%2526%2BCloyd%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D21%26um%3D 1">Moon Men now, lol?
Yea...I hope this does give them the support they need to go back to the moon. It was proposed that it was going to be dropped and a planned trip to an asteroid nearer Mars was suggested. Considering they're planning lunar bases and whatnot...I say returning to the moon is most definitely a definitive plan.
At the risk of making a comment that's completely irrelevant here, I just saw the Doctor Who episode 'The Waters of Mars' before noticing this thread. And whilst I do find the discovery of water on the moon fascinating, if its anything like 'The Waters of Mars' then be afraid of the water...
Don't drink the water. Don't even touch it. Not. One. Drop.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who made the connection (although I knew the moon story watching the episode). I was trying not to smirk every time the script mentioned NASA. 
Yeah, this is pretty cool especially seeing as how astronomy is my favorite scientific subject.
Astronomy is my favourite scientific subject as well. Always has been, always will be! <3
R.I.P. Moon: 4,330,000,000 B.C. - 2009 A.D.
Sorry to disappoint some of you, but even though there's apparently water on the moon, there's still not gonna be any life, even on the microscopic level, because the moon doesn't have the atmosphere to support even one-celled organisms.
But this is still pretty cool 🙂 I love astronomy.
~Shadowed Spirit Sage
Sorry to disappoint some of you, but even though there's apparently water on the moon, there's still not gonna be any life, even on the microscopic level, because the moon doesn't have the atmosphere to support even one-celled organisms.
You are WRONG. There are squirrels on the Moon.
GEORGE ADAMSKI WAS RIGHT.
Rishi. Your love for hupplajuju wickeywackey whatchamabuh?! is all well and good. I'm happy you think of stingrays in the atmosphere and water spirits in the chimney and I'mma let you finish, but life by it's definition requires certain things to sustain itself. You know this, and you have the freedom to believe what you wish, as do all hupplajuju wickeywackeyoligists--- but guess what?
YOU
ARE
WRONG!
^_______________^ just thought I'd let you know.
Rishi. Your love for hupplajuju wickeywackey whatchamabuh?! is all well and good. I'm happy you think of stingrays in the atmosphere and water spirits in the chimney and I'mma let you finish, but life by it's definition requires certain things to sustain itself. You know this, and you have the freedom to believe what you wish, as do all hupplajuju wickeywackeyoligists--- but guess what?
YOU
AREWRONG!
^_______________^ just thought I'd let you know.
What's a hupplajuju wickeywackeyoligist?
Someone who studies hupplajuju wickeywackey, my dear Hukos.
Rishi. Your love for hupplajuju wickeywackey whatchamabuh?! is all well and good. I'm happy you think of stingrays in the atmosphere and water spirits in the chimney and I'mma let you finish, but life by it's definition requires certain things to sustain itself. You know this, and you have the freedom to believe what you wish, as do all hupplajuju wickeywackeyoligists--- but guess what?
YOU
AREWRONG!
^_______________^ just thought I'd let you know.
Actually I have seen these moon squirrels that Rishi has told us about... in person! also there are MOON PIGs DOT COM on the moon!
evidence 1.b:
thus it is you that is incorrect, therefore
Rishi. Your love for hupplajuju wickeywackey whatchamabuh?! is all well and good. I'm happy you think of stingrays in the atmosphere and water spirits in the chimney and I'mma let you finish, but life by it's definition requires certain things to sustain itself. You know this, and you have the freedom to believe what you wish, as do all hupplajuju wickeywackeyoligists--- but guess what?
YOU
AREWRONG!
^_______________^ just thought I'd let you know.
Craig. Your love for made up words is all well and good. I'm happy that you don't think that squirrels dwell on the Moon, but life by its definition has no scientific meaning that is universally agreed upon. You know this, and you have the freedom to believe what you wish, as do all people who make up words--- but guess what?
YOU
ARE
WRONG!
^_______________^ just thought I'd let you know.
Proof:
P.S. Totally NOT Photoshopped. 
Well, as someone who believes in an omnipotent Creator with whom nothing is impossible, I find it completely in the realm of possibilities for God to create life that would go against our understanding of life as we know it, including putting life on the moon, a star, in the vacuum of space, etc. though I don't think he did but shrug.
It'd take a pretty lazy god to make billions of stars and planets and yet only put something resembling life on one of them...!
It'd take a pretty lazy god to make billions of stars and planets and yet only put something resembling life on one of them...!
Damn straight! My God is not lazy. <3
It'd take a pretty lazy god to make billions of stars and planets and yet only put something resembling life on one of them...!
I'm not saying He didn't put life on other planets, I'm just saying that I think He used a certain template and didn't deviate from it much. In other words, I don't think he did put life on the moon, stars, etc. though it's definitely in His power, as all things are. As far as aliens in general, I have no strong opinion one way or the other.
I'm just saying that I think He used a certain template and didn't deviate from it much.
'Template'? What do you mean by 'template'? Some kind of hierarchy? Please elaborate what you mean.
In other words, I think He kept in line with carbon based, water dependent, etc. not thriving in a sun, vacuum, etc.
Didn't they find some sort of worm like creature on Mars or something here a while back?
As far as intelligent life goes, if there is, they're obviously intelligent enough not to try to contact us.
As far as intelligent life goes, if there is, they're obviously intelligent enough not to try to contact us.
LOL, true that!
As far as intelligent life goes, if there is, they're obviously intelligent enough not to try to contact us.
LOL, true that!
Ha, ha, amen! As far as it goes Rish, with God's infinite power, I wouldn't be surprised either, but I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't any either. Although, I would have to say one of God's most interesting,if not the most interesting, creatures is the water bear! Check it out, now that's awesome!!
You bring up a very valid point that I actually feel inclined to reply to. To say all life is carbon based is completely ignorant, as there is no proof except what's directly in front of us, and at least in our lifetime, we won't know what life is like in other solar systems and galaxies, simply because we don't have the resources to get us that far yet.
However, I can say with 95-98% certainty that any life that would exist on the moon would be carbon based by reason that it's made up of the same material for the most part that the Earth is made of.
"But we don't know for sure where the moon came from!" I hear some cry.
Well, duh. None of us were there some four billion years ago when our sun was born and the solar system followed suit. There are, however, several hypotheses regarding where the moon came from. Some people say the moon was adopted into Earth's gravitational pull in its early life, going from outside asteroid to the rock we know as our satellite. This is possible, but there are too many similar properties between Earth and our Moon to say that it was a completely foreign object that happened to pass into the gravitational pull and become a moon.
One of the most widely accepted theories (and one which I support) says that an asteroid or something similar actually made impact with a very young and tumultuous Earth, hurling both asteroid and Earth bits into the space immediately surrounding the planet. As both continued spinning and molding and forming, both the planet and moon eventually morphed themselves into the spherical shapes we know today. The biggest difference between the two is that the moon isn't big enough to support its own atmosphere, where Earth had the right properties, the perfect distance, and the correct atmosphere to support life. And everything took shape from there.
This is all the paraphrased version, there are various other places which have more accurate information worded much more carefully.
~Shadowed Spirit Sage
but there are too many similar properties between Earth and our Moon to say that it was a completely foreign object that happened to pass into the gravitational pull and become a moon.... where Earth had the right properties, the perfect distance, and the correct atmosphere to support life. And everything took shape from there.
I may be stepping in it right now, but this is the problem I have with evolutionary theory to say that by some accident the earth and moon had many similarities, and that by some accident, the earth was some how "miraculously" the perfect distance, etc to support life, not to mention how everything works so smoothly, just seems so stupid, please don't take it as an insult.
To me it just screams intelligent design, I mean how many of us here would accept that a perfect work of Shakespeare would come out as a result that a book factory blew up, yet many have no problem thinking our universe, as well put together as it is, just came from some cosmic "gaseous belch." Again, that the earth and moon are made up of the same material, etc. is it really that far fetched to believe an all powerful God decided to make it out of the same materials? Like I said, I may be stepping in it right now, but that's my two cents.
but there are too many similar properties between Earth and our Moon to say that it was a completely foreign object that happened to pass into the gravitational pull and become a moon.... where Earth had the right properties, the perfect distance, and the correct atmosphere to support life. And everything took shape from there.
I may be stepping in it right now, but this is the problem I have with evolutionary theory to say that by some accident the earth and moon had many similarities, and that by some accident, the earth was some how "miraculously" the perfect distance, etc to support life, not to mention how everything works so smoothly, just seems so stupid, please don't take it as an insult.
To me it just screams intelligent design, I mean how many of us here would accept that a perfect work of Shakespeare would come out as a result that a book factory blew up, yet many have no problem thinking our universe, as well put together as it is, just came from some cosmic "gaseous belch." Again, that the earth and moon are made up of the same material, etc. is it really that far fetched to believe an all powerful God decided to make it out of the same materials? Like I said, I may be stepping in it right now, but that's my two cents.
Y'know what? I actually agree with you, at least in a broad sense anyway.
Intelligent design is, in its essence, the belief that the diverse features and functions of the cosmos are the result of an intelligent cause as opposed to mere acts of chance. Since the 'intelligent design' stance arose into existence, it has been associated with Christianity and, in particular, biblical creationism.
This, in my opinion, is extremely unfortunate. The most basic premise of intelligent design, when stripped of its Christian embroidery, resonates with Truth (at least as far as I'm concerned). That's why I've made this post, so that the magnificent concept of intelligent design can be shared by both Christians and non-Christians alike and also to assist the intelligent design concept in existing without automatically being associated with Christian beliefs and dogmas (ie. usually anti-evolutionary creationism). Intelligent design does not deserve to be treated only as a mask used to disguise biblical creationism and have it covertly taught in public schools, because intelligent design is INFINITELY MORE than just that. Actually, ALL of the modern major religions on Earth (without exception) embrace the concept of intelligent design to varying degrees.
Intelligence is tacitly expressed in our cosmos in many subtle ways. First of all, we live in a universe containing billions upon billions of galaxies. In each galaxy, there are many billions of stars and orbiting some (if not most!) of these stars are planets. These planets orbit the star of their particular solar system. Their orbits are so nicely arranged that planetary collisions are practically unheard-of.
Now the word 'intelligent' is a very difficult word to define, because it's such a nebulous concept. But no matter what anyone might think, we humans are certainly intelligent (though whether we actually use our intelligence for noble purposes is highly debateable.....). Wikipedia broadly defines intelligence (an umbrella term) as: "A property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language and to learn."
What is the CAUSE of your intelligence? Did you gain intelligence from a certain combination of chemicals in your brain? Or is the source of your intelligence something less materialistic and mechanical? If intelligence is a fundamental property of the universe in which we live, then the greatest mysteries of all time suddenly become less mysterious.
The ancient metaphysical axiom 'as is above, so is below; as is below, so is above' has received full scientific confirmation in our modern era and, furthermore, provides strong support for the assertion of intelligent design. For example, modern science has shown to us that an atom is constructed and arranged in EXACTLY the same way as a solar system with its planets. A nucleus is to an atom what a star is to a solar system. Furthermore, electrons orbiting a nucleus are to an atom what planets orbiting a star are to a solar system. As if that's not enough, atoms are also constructed and arranged in EXACTLY the same way as the stars of solar systems which each orbit a common galactic centre of mass, a galactic nucleus. What I've just provided is a model. I've provided a model which OBSERVABLY repeats its expression at both microscopic and macroscopic scales.
There are also many comparatively minor things we can take note of which give credence to the notion that our universe's 'design' is intelligent. For example, let's start with our Moon. Our Moon happens to have the SAME apparent size as our Sun, which enables it to cause virtually PERFECT eclipses. Also, scientific studies inform us that if there was a slightly higher concentration of oxygen in our planet's atmosphere, insects would have tremendously large statures. What could possibly occur if there was a slightly lower concentration of oxygen in our planet's atmosphere? Also, we have 5 fingers on both of our hands. Why 5? Why not 3 instead? Or perhaps 6?
DNA is also something that I have no doubt about having been intelligently designed. It is certainly up for debate whether or not patterns readily observable in Nature (ie. snowflakes, tornados, hurricanes, sand dunes, stalactites, rivers, ocean waves etc.) are intelligently designed. But codes are different from patterns and they ARE intelligently designed. Examples of symbolic codes include music, blueprints, languages like English and Chinese and Japanese, computer programs, and yes, DNA. This essential distinction is the difference between a pattern and a code. Chaos can produce patterns, but it has never been shown to produce codes or symbols. Codes and symbols store information, which is not a property of matter alone. Information itself is a separate and distinct entity on par with matter. DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language and an information storage mechanism. All codes we know the origin of are created by a conscious mind. Therefore, DNA was logically ALSO designed by a conscious mind (or conscious minds).
ALL sounds indicate the presence of a speaker. ALL actions indicate the presence of a doer. ALL thoughts indicate the presence of a thinker.
There is indeed a cosmic design and that cosmic design is pretty damn intelligent! 
I'm going to be the manditory person mentioning "what if God created evolution and all that jazz"
Maybe he made the asteroid smack into earth and create the moon???
I'm agnostic myself, as I find it quite difficult to beleive in an all-powerful being running the show, but if God does exist I reckon that might be it.
I personally beleive in the random chance theory just because we simply don't know how many times life had failed to start before us. We barely know anything about the universe. Heck, we don't even know how many universes there might be. For all we know we might have been the billionth time or so and it just turned out right.
I'm going to be the manditory person mentioning "what if God created evolution and all that jazz"
For the record, I'm not a creationist. At least not a biblical creationist, anyway. However, that doesn't mean I unquestioningly support the Darwinian theory of evolution by natural selection. I guess I sit somewhere in the middle. Some things are hard to explain. I'm convinced that at least some aspects of the Darwinian theory of evolution are true (and not only true, but OBSERVABLY true), yet I also believe that these aspects were intentionally set into motion - whether it was by a god, gods, 'God', Ronald McDonald, Chuck Norris etc., I don't know.
We barely know anything about the universe.
This is true.
Heck, we don't even know how many universes there might be.
I think that there are an infinite number of universes. My belief is that this universe is akin to an atom (or at least something similar) which is embedded in a far vaster cosmic structure and this vaster cosmic structure is itself akin to an atom (or something similar) which is embedded in a far vaster cosmic structure ad infinitum. If this is true, then I'm certain that this process would not begin with our universe. A single atom (perhaps every atom) embedded within this universe might contain a universe of its own and so on ad infinitum.
I consider myself an evolutionary Creationist. I think evolution is a perfectly valid given the sheer number of plants and animals we have. God created the base creatures and let nature take off from there. In fact, I think it makes it even more miraculous that God gave all of these creatures the capability to change and adapt to whatever environment they reside in.
In fact, I think it makes it even more miraculous that God gave all of these creatures the capability to change and adapt to whatever environment they reside in.
Exactly. Evolution is a beautiful testament to God's creativity and diversity. It's too limiting for an unlimited God to just snap Her fingers and have every animal suddenly appear out of nowhere. Modifications gradually manifest in plant species and animal species through continual reproduction. Everything is changing and this includes plants and animals (like ourselves, since humans are technically animals).
there's probably no one in the moon, but i hope they find ruins there. there's a missing puzzle in history, something we can't solve on earth, the mystery behind our existance and our begining.
or maybe we humans arent really that special and there is no one but us in the universe.
as for wether i believe in life on the moon, no that's impossible, the moon is so close to us we would've noticed if something was there.
i'm just hoping that there were people there and they moved on or something leaving some clues for us.
It's always fun when someone tries to use the "How could Earth have just the perfect conditions for life without intelligent design?" argument. If it hadn't, we would be here to observe it. Simple as that. We're the coin toss that worked. The nigh-impossible odds it takes for life to exist are irrelevant. Life exists, therefore, we question it. If it didn't, we wouldn't be able to.
oh but that's no fun, i never accepted the eveloution idea for the reason it makes us seem less special. i want to believe there's a master plan. and there's cool new unseen things in the world.
logic states i'm wrong.... but what is logic, theroies and calculations made by human experiance... there has to be something we didn't experiance yet beyond the stars... i'm hoping there's proof of that. cause even i question my logic, and it scares me to limit my thinking.
back to topic, i just thought of something.....if there is water on the moon, isn't it possible to have creatures in the water?
they won't need air in the atmospher to survive, right? so is it possible there's fish in the moon? 
ha ha the zora's from legend of zelda are propbably there.
Do you believe that our Moon was artificially formed, Sonicsfan1991?
If not fish, then probably some mole soldiers, a fox pirate, and a wannabe lightning god.
Our Moon is clearly hollow. There are human beings living in cities inside our Moon.
Our Moon is clearly hollow. There are human beings living in cities inside our Moon.
<hug> rishi you believe yes yes stick with me!
and about believing our moon is artificial...... do you mean the star wars theory? i read on that conspiracy, but i'm more with the archeology theories.
the pyramids and mayon temeples expalin space more interestingly, they seem to believe in far away visitors.... if there is water on the moon, it would make the perfect gas station for such visitors right? they must've stopped there or settled... that's my conclusion.
i crossed the "sane" line didn't i?
Welcome to the Mofo.
and about believing our moon is artificial...... do you mean the star wars theory?
What do you mean by 'Star Wars theory'?
i read on that conspiracy, but i'm more with the archeology theories.
Elaborate on these 'archeology theories'. Are you suggesting the possibility that certain archeological discoveries occurred upon our Moon? If so, then I would like to mention that there is a very genuine possibility that NASA found ruins on our Moon. I think man did indeed land on our Moon, but found more than he bargained for. Far more. THAT'S what I believe is the TRUE cover-up going on here. Check out this thread of mine:
What do you mean by 'Star Wars theory'?
"...."
What do you mean by 'Star Wars theory'?
*waves his hand* This isn't the thread you're looking for.
<*waves his hand* This isn't the thread you're looking for>
that is so funny ... ha ha ...
i'm surprised you didn't figure out what the star wars conspiracy theory is, it's very clear ... moon + star wars = THE DEATHSTAR
the moon is the deathstar, under the moons crust are machines that run a plant destroying lazer beam and engines that brought the moon from far off space to earth's orbit.. and the craters on the moon are bomb blasts from the invasian attacks left by the war.
i'm surprised you didn't figure out what the star wars conspiracy theory is, it's very clear ... moon + star wars = THE DEATHSTAR
the moon is the deathstar, under the moons crust are machines that run a plant destroying lazer beam and engines that brought the moon from far off space to earth's orbit.. and the craters on the moon are bomb blasts from the invasian attacks left by the war.
That is NONSENSE!!!!! Our Moon is NOT the Death Star - Iapetus is! The equatorial ridge of Iapetus strongly resembles a similar feature found on the Death Star.
ha ha well i said i don't believe in that theory, but i swear that's what hard core star wars fans are saying 
i believe in a less insane idea.
btw rishi i'm reading a fan fiction as soon as i finish it, i'll read your thread and reply to it... i was interested in your collection of theories regarding inhabitance on the moon. i too have clues i want to share.
Well, the theory isn't that the moon is a planet killer (well, I'm sure there are some people who believe the moon is the Death Star, but, seriously, people will believe anything; Look at Rishi); the theory is the "That's no moon, it's a space station" with Aliens/ancient humans/the US government/Nazi's/[insert conspiracy-of-the-week] inside.
<blinks> so are you saying you believe the moon is unnatural? probably even made by humans/humanoids?
