Like the fact that half of them are the same thing over and over? Yes. But I guess you could say most authors are like that. Same story with different characters and minor plot additions.

It's not a BAD series overall, the fact that I actually READ some of them is a testament to Jacques as I find most modern authors even MORE tedious and hell bent on over describing EVERYTHING than Redwall does.

~Rico (I eat mice)

What annoys me is also that. The plot of the stories are often recycled save a few gems. But the stories literally run together over a time that I could never tell you which characters go to what story.

You know its a bad sign when you start liking the bad guys more than the good guys. Most of the time the Redwall dwellers annoy me with just how goody goody they are. I feel sorry for the vermin who suffer badly from storm trooper syndrome. The only groups of characters I don't find fault with is maaaaybe the Salamandastron hares and the Mossflower Guerilla Shrews XD And the chosen warrior/hero of the book.

I really liked Mariel from Mariel of Redwall, and Matthias and of course Martin. But characters like Tiria Wildlough from High Rhulain are borderline mary sue. In fact I think Tiria IS a marysue. And thats the problem with a lot of these books. Its overwhelmingly black and white there is hardly any grey. I always pray for grey characters but they are far and few between.

I mean seriously I think there has been only one vermin who became a good guy. And that was only because he was too STUPID to be evil.

I'd count Veil from Outcast but he was quite nasty and attempted to murder someone. I don't think he changed by the end of the book. But he was probably the most grey character this series has ever had.

I used to watch the cartoon, does that count?

kiiiinda but not really. They only did like 2 of the books.

Touched upon tangentally already, but a problem I have with the series is that one will find the same characters in every story. Sometimes it defies/boggles the mind how characters are essentially channelling the personalities of their predecessors. Every hare, every mole, every hedgehog behaves the same. Every friar at the Abbey is whiny, every squirrel is some kind of natural archery marksrodent, every shrew is in dire need of anger management, et cetera.

well the shrews always live together. Its like a tribe. So I figure they'd all act the same. The same can be said for the hares.

But yeah the redwallers personalities often recycle. The character who is in charge of the cellar is always a hedgehog. As if no other animal is allowed to do the job of making drinks and stuff.

Yeah the friar is usually whiny. I'd actually like to see a book where that fat bastard has to go on an adventure XD.

I can't remember the last time I saw a badger mother in Redwall. But they're usually rather tough. When theres a badger mom in the story you know she's going to kick some ass because thats the only reason she's there. The one exception is that badger from Outcast of Redwall who I guess was slightly mentally retarded or something.

This may be harsh but sometimes the mole speech gets on my nerves. Books that have moles as prominent characters tend to get my eyes rolling in frustration more than most.

I greatly appreciate the books that are direct sequels like Martin the Warrior-Mossflower-Legend of Luke , Mariel of Redwall - The Bellmaker, and Redwall-Mattemio. Because at least then I can remember who's who! But the villians never survive the length of one book.

I don't hate the series, it's just a little to kiddish for me. Just like certain hedgehogs. Hell, I have the books on that bookshelf over there. I bought the last one, and managed to read it.

Of course it's going to be black and white, it's a children's series. I expect that. That doesn't bug me. However the rehashing of characters in about half of the books? Is a little grating. It's a good little series to get kids into though, it's not a bad set of books to keep your mind occupied on plane trips or something of that nature. Better than most of the crap being shoveled out there in the Young Adult market. Stephanie Meyer anyone?

Oh, I will say that Felldoh rocked.

~Rico

Hrn.

I used to be a very big fan of the series, but I've fallen out of touch with it in recent times, I need to re-aquaint myself. (Though 3 books at random should fill that =D) All I recall is that I loved the books, despite the reuse, because there was always a spin. It was pure good guy vs bad guy feel good stuff, with a slight edge of darkness, and the occasional edge (never complete) of greyness that made you sympathise with the bad rats/weasels/ferrets/cats/foxes whatever, but only a little.

I need to re-read them and have been planning to for a long time, I know that.

Also the TV series was complete and utter manure. Totally.

a few deaths in the books are kinda kid unfriendly. To be honest I didn't pay much attention to the cartoon. But its exsistance is what turned me onto the books

I recall Asmodeus seemed a pretty terrifying way to die. I liked the early books best - I think I stopped reading not very long after Mariel, that sort of era. The ones with Matthias and Luke were my favourites, but I always had a lot of time for the hares of the Long Patrol

I think I gave my collection to my brother in the end. No idea what he's done with them since - that must have been a good few years ago.

DW

I feel the same way! The ealier books (not chronologically I guess) have a darker tone and good guys died more often. There were some pretty epic fights as well. As epic as little woodland creatures can get I guess XD. But I'll still read just about any Redwall book. Right now I just happen to be plouging through Rakkety Tam.

I keep telling myself that I should read the series to get an informed opinion, but:

1. I've heard too many reports about Mary-Sues over the years.

2. The stereotyping seems lazy. Lots of good mice and rabbits and nasty rats and carnivores - why can't we have someone change that around or throw in some shades of grey to the routineness? Robin Jarvis' Deptford stories managed it for the exact same demographic - right down to the amoral squirrels!

3. The level of anthropomorphism seems pointless to me. I know all of the backstory about Jacques wanted to ewrite inspirational stories abnout little mice and big odds for the children at the local school for the blind - but if he's going to humanise his characters' dress, actions and lifestyles to the point where they're just people wearing animal masks, I've never understood why he just couldn't have written straight fantasy in the first place.

I loved the series when I was younger, as of now I may have read every book in the series up to either Loamhedge or Rakkity Tam, forgot which one he wrote last. There are some epic fights as well as epic feasts, but I am about done with the series becuase of the repetiveness. The first few books were good, then plot lines just started to go down hill with the exception of a few books like Martin the Warrior.

There are a couple of sues but they are few. Its more just flat characterisation which can annoy readers wanting something deeper. Obviously these are meant for younger audiences. So when I set to read one I know what to expect.

Hypocrit that I am always want something deep but I read these books anyway. But Outcast of Redwall is my favorite book of the series I think because it has at least some grey in it.

I've only ever read Redwall and Mattimeo. I loved those books, but I wasn't really interested in reading the entire series. Something about long histories bore me. Probably the reason why I have never read other literary classic series like the Narnia books, Earthsea books, or the Dragonriders of Pern books.

I got into the series though the TV series. Overall, I did enjoy the cartoon and the books. My favorite books/TV series are "Mattimeo" and "Martin the Warrior." I guess I am tolerante of Mary-Sue's and things being in black and white(this is one of the charms of the series for me,things are so simple). A Redwall and Sonic Sat a.m. connection, Tim Curry was the voice of Slager in the the Mattimeo season.

I love this series. I have to take it only a couple books in a row though, or else it's just too much.

The first time I read these, I went through 11 in a row without pausing for other books. I started talking like a redwall character for a couple days. My ex-husband put a stop to it when I said to him "Well aren't you a grumpy badger?"

History between books is almost non exsistant actually XD Its only once a blue moon when reference to previous adventures is given. The chronology of these stories are very very loose to the point it really doesn't matter at all.

I read Redwall, it's one of my alltime favorites. As for the rest of the Brian Jacques books...negative, havn't read any of them.

I know there are those Castaway of the Flying duchman books. But I don't even glance at them. Heh. I probably should.

Yeah, I keep on meaning to look at the first one of the Castaway books. With a mild obsession with all things nautical I'm over due....

Deptford stories are for children? i first read them as a teenager, some of the stories gave me nightmares. o.o; (the oaken throne is still my fave for being wonderfully twisted)

i'm pretty sure i read a redwall story once, but barely remember how it went. it didn't seem to be something that stuck in my mind.

Deptford stories are for children? i first read them as a teenager, some of the stories gave me nightmares. o.o; (the oaken throne is still my fave for being wonderfully twisted)

Did you ever read the Whitby Witches trilogy or the Wyrd Museum trilogy? Bad things definitely happen to good people in those. I think the Wyrd Museum is my favourite merely for having a talking raven called Quoth

DW

I had a friend who first read the Deptford Mice trilogy at twelve and didn't bat an eyelid.

Then he re-read them at the age of nineteen and had nightmares.

They were in the library at my secondary school. They never really had that effect on me, and I still totally respect the author for going back to the old, grimmer versions of children's narratives and crediting his audience with being able to deal with it.

i read the Wyrd Museum ones too! i get reminded of them every time i hear a certain song on the radio, because it was played near constantly back when i first read it.
he has a thing for making dreadful things happen to everyone, be they good or evil. ^^;

don't think i read the witches one, but i did get a book where there was a race of tiny people who lived in trees and could shape-shift into animals. yet another bloodthirsty book! o-o;

the fact that he wasn't being all nicey nicey and would actually depict how grim things could be was one reason why i kept reading the books. several of the deptford mice books made me cry, which is a sure sign that it'd gotten me hooked into the stories world that i would care if a character died.

gaah, i want to re-read all my books now! ;--; perhaps a libary here may have some copies..

don't think i read the witches one, but i did get a book where there was a race of tiny people who lived in trees and could shape-shift into animals. yet another bloodthirsty book! o-o;

Thorn Ogres of Hagwood? I always wondered what other plans he had for that new universe - although I must admit that I've been waiting for years for the resolution of that cliffhanger from Deathscent.

Was that the one set in a weird parallel Britain? I picked that one up and had forgotten about it. It never gripped me quite the way the Wyrd Museum did, but now you mention it, it didn't finish, did it?

There are 2 books currently with the dubious credit of making me cry (and in my defence, while reading at least one of 'em life felt like a real bummer). Both are by another Robin, this one Hobb. One was from the Fool (Tawny Man) trilogy and one from the Soldier Son trilogy. I think I sat on the sofa and sobbed my eyes out for the former. Amazing story though and totally worth it.

I'm sorry, I appear to have derailed this thread to other children's fiction and fantasy. Whoops!

DW

Other people have read Deathscent? I thought I was the only one <3

Thorn Ogres of Hagwood, that's the one! my book had a funky hologram image on the front, the character would morph into an animal when you moved the book from side to side. oo

that's another thing i like about his writing, is that he also illustrates his own books. instead of seeing another artist's interpretation of the world (which could be full of wierd flaws.. think of the early terry pratchett book covers. full of colour, action and crazy stuff.. but totally off the mark with regards to how some of the characters looked) we're seeing the characters and surroundings exactly how the writer sees them in his head. ^^