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About those "skyrocketing" gas prices...

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(@ultra-sonic-007)
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Instead of total dollar value, look at the percentage.

Quote:


What to do about choose the adjective "spiraling," "skyrocketing," "out-of-control" gas prices?

Well, we could try a little perspective. In 1981, Americans spent 5 percent of their household budget on gas and oil. Last year, despite "skyrocketing" gas prices, Americans spent 3.8 percent.

A national morning show interviewer practically high-fived the governor of Florida for urging an investigation into "gouging." Meanwhile, over at one of the cable news networks, the "newsman" beat his desk, his chest and anything he could find to express his concern, outrage and downright indignation.

The California speaker of the State Assembly said that while he lacked evidence that oil companies engage in cheating, he still felt they did. Why? His gut told him so. In fact, over the last 20 years, 30 federal investigations seeking evidence of price manipulation or collusion came up with, uh, well, a dry hole.

But the conspiracy theorists press on. Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., asked the Government Accountability Office to conduct an investigation. A year ago, he asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate. By then, the FTC had already conducted two investigations, uncovering no evidence of unfair business practices. But, who knows? Maybe the oil company CEOs pulled a Sandy Berger, and stuffed damning evidence in their pants. So, by all means, let's look harder. Time for a strip search!

The mainscream media reports on the "outrageous," "unacceptable," "unjustifiable" "record profits." Never mind that following price peaks in 1981, low crude and gas prices during the '80s and '90s bankrupted some oil companies. But that was then. Today, Exxon Mobil, Chevron and ConocoPhillips earn tens of billions of dollars annually in profits that "defy common sense."

Why bother reporting that, with Big Oil profits at eight to 10 cents on the dollar, other companies and industry sectors earn more including, for example, Internet giant Google and the banking industry. In California, the state "earns" about 40 cents per gallon, with the feds' cut coming in at almost 19 cents.

What about gas prices as a percentage of our income? In other words, does the gas bite of our paycheck rival the bite of yesteryear? Not even close.
Given today's fatter paycheck, we pay less as a percentage of our mean disposable income. A gallon was 27 cents in 1949 but to put the same pinch on your wallet today, you'd pay $6.68. Gas for 1962's "muscle cars" cost 31 cents a gallon. To feel the same economic impact today, you'd pony up $4.48 a gallon.

Conspiracy theorists point to the "failure" of the oil companies to build new refineries. But environmental restrictions make the construction of new refineries an expensive and risky proposition, and few communities want them anywhere near their ZIP codes.

A recent editorial in a liberal newspaper brought some sad news. It pinned the high prices on the mysterious notion of supply and demand. It noted that despite the teeth-gnashing, Americans over the Memorial Day weekend intended to keep driving. And even with the availability of more fuel-efficient cars, Americans still love those old "gas-guzzling" SUVs, what with their roominess, high-tech features and all. Somebody, please, stop the insanity!

What about the prices paid by consumers in other countries? While the average driver in the U.S. paid $2.68 per gallon in mid-April, our Northern brethren in Canada paid $3.56. Meanwhile, a gallon in Japan cost $4.16, the Spaniards paid $5.14, the French forked over $6.50, a trip down the autobahn cost German drivers $6.72 a gallon, and our friends in the United Kingdom kept a stiff upper lip while shelling out $8.37.

Some lawmakers talk of "breaking up" the oil companies, or imposing a windfall profits tax. Been there, done that. The taxes simply suck up money otherwise spent on research, exploration and production. And you want to put government in charge of determining the appropriate size and operating efficiency of oil companies?

So let's sum up. Politicians and the mainscream media ignore supply and demand; overlook the impact of federal, state and local taxes on the price of a gallon of gas; disregard the effect of consumers' driving habits; refuse to point out the ineffectiveness of "windfall profits taxes"; and blame Big Oil for refusing to build refineries while ignoring environmental restrictions that make it unprofitable to do so.

But at least they care.


Discuss away.

 
(@sandygunfox)
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But I still think there's a vast, gigantic, perfect conspiracy.

 
(@stewie0015)
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The gas prices in Minnesota literally fluctuates every day. It is the greedy gas companies.

I put $42 into my pos car... When my uncle filled up his truck, he put in $69 worth... It is sad

 
(@johnny-chopsocky)
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10 years ago, when I started driving, I could get a gallon of premium for $1. Now, that's $3.50+ per gallon.

If you can look me in the eyes and tell me that it's reasonable for a price to jump 350% in ten years when it did not jump that drastically in the 80 years prior, I'm gonna have to call the men in white coats to come take you away.

 
(@ultra-sonic-007)
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Market forces Castor.

China and India have industrialized RAPIDLY within the last 10 years. Their demand has risen tremendously as a result (that they're the two most populated nations in the world doesn't help either).

 
(@Anonymous)
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Quote:


/opinion/


 
(@jinsoku-sonichqcommunity)
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My whole thing is, the fact that it jumped so QUICKLY. Not gradually over the years, no. Not more than 3 years ago I remember looking at the gas prices and going "Well snap, it's at 1.80... scary that we'll be hitting $2". Now we're close to $4.00?

Here's another thing with supply and demand; if you have to increase supply to meet demand, at the end, wouldn't you still pretty much come up even? Or close to it? Yes, I'm aware that you can still come up with a profit since you're selling more, but millions, close to billions even, in profits? Given the fact that we have NO CHOICE on buying gas, it's a bit ludicrous that they don't lower prices.

Also, I hate that comparison to other countries, when these other areas are overly taxed, and yet also have much better public transportation over, usually, much smaller land. With the way zoning is in the US, and with the really crappy public transportation systems we have, or LACK thereof, it's almost impossible NOT to drive and NOT fork over the money for the gas. A 28 mile commute for work (like mine) is almost non existant in most of these other countries, and while one may have such a commute in another country, they seriously have better options than most in the US, as far as getting there.

I argue that the "supply and demand" bit is questionable due to the gross amounts of profit outweighing the extremely fast hike in a span of 4 years, and the "other countries are paying up, so manup and do so" argument is crap because that's NOT an excuse to just have it happen. If it were gradual given the course of 10 years or so, I'd be cool with it; pissed still because I'd still be reminded of how comfortable it USED to be, (like most other products in the real world, inflation takes part in price changes as time goes on), BUT I would have grown into it.

Quote:


What about gas prices as a percentage of our income? In other words, does the gas bite of our paycheck rival the bite of yesteryear? Not even close.
Given today's fatter paycheck, we pay less as a percentage of our mean disposable income.


THIS is just BULLcrap. Minimum wage is only now recently starting to spring higher recently across many cities and states, just to keep up with the cost of living for working commuters! That statement CERTAINLY does not apply to every man and woman in the US. Speaking as someone who went through the course of getting a raise 2 years ago, only to be slapped in the face with exploding gas prices all the sudden, I evened out right back again. It came to the point that, if I had not received a raise, how the HELL would I have managed?

Even at my current salary with my nice, cushy job I have now, it hurts a LOT still.

For the record, I drive a Sunfire with close to 30 miles to the gallon on the highway. I drive 28 miles to work, and back, every day. I generally use up 2 gallons a day.

 
(@tornadot)
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Income may have gone up because of inflation but in reality, it still isn't all that great...the high gas prices usually doesn't bother me because I live about 4 miles from work and thus can also bike during the summer, saving me money. And my car is not easy on gas (Maybe 20 mpg, it's a 92 Camaro Coupe)

 
(@cipher_strelok98)
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Its all a joke, the gas companies are ripping everyone off, and the politicians won't do anything as that could hurt there campaign money flow, among other things.

 
(@dreamer-of-nights)
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It still doesn't matter whether the increase was a percentage or some other mean: The result still affects anyone with a car. I agree with SX: there's a vast, gigantic, perfect conspiracy which we don't know.

Now, I took a look at the prices in New York (first the city, then the whole state). If you are going to tell me to send friends and family to some forgotten place in upper state, I'll quote Castor and "call the men in white coats to come take you away".

 
(@thecycle)
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Gas costs about $1.27 per litre in Vancouver, which works out to about US $4.50 a gallon. In early 2002 it cost only 51 cents per litre, and that was back when the Canadian dollar was worth about 65 cents US, so USD $1.25 per gallon. That's a 150% increase over six years (260% if you factor in the exchange rate), in a country that possesses the world's second-largest reserve of oil and is a net exporter of energy. Skyrocketing is, I think, a very accurate word to describe gas prices.

 
(@sandygunfox)
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Ah, Cyc, but how much of the North American oil fields are actually being tapped?

 
(@thecycle)
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net exporter of energy

 
(@sandygunfox)
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I saw.

 
(@thecycle)
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Well this implies that we are extracting more than enough oil to meet demand.

Personally I'm opposed to extracting much more than that, because the methods of extracting oil from the tar sands are highly polluting and more or less permanently scar the landscape.

 
(@sandygunfox)
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Then don't whine about prices. o.O

 
(@thecycle)
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I'm not whining. I don't drive.

 
(@the-real-tails)
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Gas prices have always been irritating for me to, when I started driving it only cost me $20 to fill up and I would go for 2 weeks before I needed to fill. Now when I do the 2 weeks it cost me $42 yesterday to fill up. That's a pretty big increase in just the 5-years I've been driving and that is still a good chunk of my paycheck no matter what.

What people also need to look at is the fact that we were around a holiday and everyone knows that gas companies RAISE their prices near holidays because they know people are going to drive so they want to take in as much as they can get. Before Memorial day gas here was averaged at $3.09/gal now it's down near $2.89/gal I'm pretty sure there's something going on there too.

 
(@tornadot)
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Depends on where you are...it's still up around 3.30 per gallon up here in Denver. Seems to have gone up...:p

 
(@jinsoku-sonichqcommunity)
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Still 3.35 here in IL. Look at that, it dropped 10 cents after the holiday!

... but wait, it was at 3.45 and 3.50 two weeks well before the holiday. :O

 
(@sandygunfox)
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Pretty sure it's around $3.20 here in Atlanta. It didn't drop much.

 
(@shadowed-spirit-sage)
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Depends on where you are in IL. They're averaging about $3.50-3.60 in Chicagoland (and by that, I mean the metro area, not a cute name for the city itself).

Public transit isn't all that great out here, but it might be my only option to get to and from school 45 minutes away without dropping a bunch of money that I currently don't have.

~Shadowed Spirit Sage

 
(@Anonymous)
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My US History teacher always said last year that the price of oil was going down, so production of gasoline was actually cheaper but the price of it for the consume still went up. For all I know he is full of crap, but just putting that out there. :D

 
(@stewie0015)
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Yeah @ Sagey

Gas prices here in the Twin Cities metro area range so much that there is a price watcher website... Right now the price ranges from $2.77 in the outer metro areas (25-40 miles away) to $3.39 in the inner rings... Around my house, I've seen $2.97...

Our public transportation system is also crap.

 
(@jinsoku-sonichqcommunity)
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I art not seeing much of a reply from Ultra after my statement.

What say you?

 
(@tornadot)
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Man is everyone's public transportation THAT bad? Out here in Denver, ours is pretty good with at least 100 different routes and the light rail trains...

...then again Boulder's is legendary.

 
(@toby-underwood)
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Dropped to $2.94 in the much maligned Enid, Oklahoma yesterday.

~Tobe

 
(@jinsoku-sonichqcommunity)
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Just depends on your city, man. Denver, that's a hella city. If you go into the bigger metropoliseses, you'll definitely find public transportation. Take Miami, for instance. When I lived in Miami, the bus was THE SHIZNITE. A bajillion, trillion routes, bus stops left and route, and had it's own piece of ROAD on US1 for easier and faster travel. Kendal, Country Walk, Sunset, US1, Coral Reef Ave... most of those major streets were pretty much covered, with bus stops coming into the roads of house developments and everything. Miami Metro Rail? Not so much. Start in US1 and headed downtown. What was there in downtown Miami? Back then, anyway, not much. Today? Heard not much has changed.

In Chicago, I hear it's the exact same with the skyway/subway/whatever the hell you wanna call it. Can be great for commuting to work when headed downtown Chicago. Since it's such a huge tourist point, however, buses also have a pretty sweet route.

The point of my argument is in the rest of the US. Not all the cities of the US are Denver, Miami, San Fran, New York, Chicago, Houston, or LA. Take for instance, Rockford, IL. Bus route? Laughable. The zoning layout in Rockford is so bad, that you would think a special person put this damn city together. Since the zoning is so bad, with residential and commercial and other working areas are all spread the hell out, in no particular order, there really isn't a "straight line" the bus routes have. It's all dipping into a certain area to reach ONE bus stop, turn back around somewhere, head north, hit east, hit a small dying mall, and hey, if you had to go to the complete opposite way, now you gotta transfer to another bus. There's a LOT of routes like this. It's as if a little kid got a crayon and drew on the Rockford map, handed it to the boss, and the boss said "THIS IS OUR BUS ROUTE HOORAAYYYY!"

It doesn't work. Hell, it doesn't even go out to where I live, and it doesn't even GO to the biggest frikkin' mall in Rockford. Granted, the mall is right outside the Rockford limits, (literally like a cm on the map), but that doesn't mean the bus can't drive to the edge of the limits and have a stop for god's sake. The walking distance won't kill anyone.

At the end, it also depends on city funding; small cities usually have terrible funding, or none. This kills any sort of expanding in the transportation dept.

 
(@thecycle)
Posts: 1818
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Well, you know. If the feds didn't spend billions of dollars each year subsidizing the oil industry, there'd be enough money to bring urban transportation infrastructures into the 21st century.

It's always hilarious when people who vehemently oppose any sort of welfare for poor people will come out in force to defend multi-billion dollar corporations' right to extort vast profits from consumers while pigging out on an enormous trough of government handouts and kickbacks.

 
(@tornadot)
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I guess one can take those things for granted...haha

But after thinking it through, I do see your point. Shoot just going down to Colorado Springs and their bus system sucks. And that's not small of a city.

 
(@stewie0015)
Posts: 815
Prominent Member
 

oh gods @ tornadot...

Minneapolis/ St Paul's is decent, I guess... If you work downtown. I work on the exact opposite end of the cities (~45 miles one way)...

We do have a light rail line... But it only goes from downtown to the Mall of America/ International Airport... which is pretty worthless.

 
(@Anonymous)
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Obviously we need to replace all public transportation with vacuum tubes.

 
(@Anonymous)
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That will "clean up" this mess. HA HA HA HA

 
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