The problem with China is that it's pretty much 100 years behind the, har har, 'developed' world - it's still in its industrial revolution.

America should know better, and has the resources to do better. I'm not the sort of person to go coursing the net for statistics, since they're generally all lies.

But surely you realise that it takes 20 minutes to cut down a redwood, and 20 YEARS for it to grow to a decent size again?

*pokes your brain*

Nope, it's still running on clockwork, and wound by corrupt, lying politicians.

"NOOOOO!" you scream, "Politicians never lie! They're sooooo much better than the rest of us! They're like, GODS or something! That's why we MUST believe every word they spout at us!"

*throws up*

Harley: Is there a reason you offer no evidence to counter Jimro's points and just ad hominem insults?

Jimro: I wouldn't mind seeing any evidence you had to back up those reforestation and air quality claims myself though.

Srol,

www.aqmd.gov/smog/historicaldata.htm
www.epa.gov/airtrends/international.html
www.cleanairprogress.org/...nal907.pdf
biology.usgs.gov/s+t/noframe/m1103.htm

While the US is getting better air and planting more trees, it is not the trend worldwide. The biggest threat to global ecology is not in the industrialized nations, but in the third world.

The solution is simple, industrialize the third world as quickly as possible to the most current technological state so that they don't have to resort to such ecologically unsound survival necessities as deforestation, slash and burn agriculture, etc.

The longer the third world stays the third world the greater the impact will be. China and India are consuming more, but as their economies mature they will pollute less.

Jimro

Well maybe if the First World countries stopped haranguing them for the money for loans they can't possibly pay off, and gave them more aid - not just money aid, which goes god knows where, and mostly to a troubled government - they wouldn't be Third World.

I could start sneering about the Iraqi war, but right now, that would be off topic.

Harley,

Yeah, that would really make the world love us, charge right in and show them how to run their country....oh wait, that's the UN's job.

As far as debt goes, it's gone.

www.globalpolicy.org/soce...elop/debt/

You can sneer at the Iraq war all you want, but more electricity, more hospitals, and more sewers are functioning now than before the war started. Your constant negativity makes me wonder how you are feeling, do you want to talk about it?

Jimro

Then why the hell did Bush do it with Iraq?

Oh, wait... non-existant WMD! And a dictatorial government!

The US's government doesn't care two s**ts about what the UN says or does; maybe if they did pay some attention, other countries might follow their example.

I know it's a poor comparison, but law isn't just there to stop other people committing crimes; it's there all the time, to stop us getting five-fingered-discount and so on.

We can rehash this yet again if you would care to start another topic, but Marble Garden is the place to do it.

Jimro

Harley, would it kill you to shut the hell up? You've already ruined a perfectly good discussion; don't make things worse by making a complete ass out of yourself. This is neither the place nor the time to start screeching about Iraq again.