A few, well ask yourself this. Of these men how many are EVIL, OR tragically mistreated and have the strugle through their disability?

There are cliches with female characters, but there are just as many with male characters.

I Did have a long argument but Ez deleted it so i'll just leave my initial point hanging, theyare all what they are, and for every one of those examples theres a male character equally as cliched.

I think Harley's argument is more along the lines of female characters being relegated to secondary roles in many movies, video games, etc. And even when they have primary roles, they are almost always portrayed as almost impossibly beautiful, scantily-clad superwomen - usually done such to attract the attention of fanboys who throw money at this sort of thing.

And this is probably one of the first instances where Harley and I agree. I'll give you a perfect example of this inequality: take a look at the cover of the first Matrix movie. What do you see? A bunch of guys wearing trenchcoats and other heavy, unrevealing clothing...and one woman, wearing tight leather and more skin revealed than the rest of the characters combined. THAT'S what Harley's pointing out - that women are merely looked at as sex symbols, even when they're supposedly tough, independent, and dangerous. Even the ones that never get romantically involved with other characters or show no interest in such things still get shown running around in tights that no real woman would be caught dead in. And more often than not, almost every female character in any given show, series, whatever, has some kind of love life or romance or crush.

Granted, I'm a guy and I have hormones like any other 21-year-old raised on this stuff. But it makes us think of women more as objects than as people, and then it makes us expect a super-hot chick to be the only kind acceptable as a wife - anyone who doesn't fit the standard of beauty gets thrown aside. And then imagine how many girls have nearly killed themselves trying to get "thin enough" to be accepted. For every successful and attractive supermodel or movie actor, there's hundreds of thousands of those who didn't "make the cut." That is a fact that we don't always appreciate.

And it's inequality because you don't get the same problems with men. With that example of the Matrix cover, none of the guys were wearing tight or revealing clothing - quite the opposite. And there are countless other examples that you, the reader, can probably remember from what you've seen lately.

True, there are examples of such stereotypes being broken on both sides of the gender fence. But relegating women to be eye candy seems to be what the entertainment industry is going to keep pushing in our faces.

The producers don't expect the consumers to buy into an unattractive woman, considering the fact that unattractive women are generally ignored by men. When it comes to video games, that is mainly a male demographic, and as such, they must produce a product that appeals to said audience.

Let's say this: there are two magazines right next to each other. Same title, same content, but the covers are different. On one cover, there is an attractive, scantily clad female. On the other, there is an average looking, fully clothed woman. Which one do you think will gather more attention?

I'm guessing the first one.

Now, I'm all for female empowerment and such, but from a business standpoint, you need to realize that it doesn't make much sense.

Amy Rose Blossom, while a hedgehog, is undoubtedly attractive

LOL no.

Three points need to be made here: 80% of gamers are men between the ages of 18 and 27. For every hot female game character, there are three hot male game characters. And surely, even female gamers would rather play as Lara or Asuka than as a fat, burger-eating, cellulite-ridden, hairy hermaphrodite.

And more often than not, almost every female character in any given show, series, whatever, has some kind of love life or romance or crush.
As opposed to male characters? Gimme a Goddam break. Neo can't get his eyes off Trinity, Donnie is obsessed with Gretchen, Dante lusts after Caitlin. That's the most ridiculous observation I've ever seen.

And then imagine how many girls have nearly killed themselves trying to get "thin enough" to be accepted. For every successful and attractive supermodel or movie actor, there's hundreds of thousands of those who didn't "make the cut."
That's their frigging problem for chasing after a body they don't have. It's more our cultural obsession with fame and money than it is the fault of any individual piece of entertainment. If a girl born with slow metabolism decides OMG I WANT 2 B LIEK BRITANY SPEERS and gives herself brain damage by becoming a fruitarian, that's her problem.

I'm very skinny because I hereditarily inherited high metabolism from my father. If a big guy wanted to look like me, he'd have to stop eating. Any you know what? It'd be his fault if he died from it. Not mine, and not that of the makers of a TV show or a game starring a skinny, dark-haired, fair-skinned male lead.

With that example of the Matrix cover, none of the guys were wearing tight or revealing clothing - quite the opposite.
With the exception of my girlfriend (who, by the way, is utterly insane), I don't know any women who like to see men in tight or revealing clothing.

But relegating women to be eye candy seems to be what the entertainment industry is going to keep pushing in our faces.
Honestly, I can't say I've noticed many fat, ugly guys in lead or supporting roles lately. Except maybe Jack Black, and I have yet to see him in a role in which he gets any. Did you see High Fidelity? John Cusack goes through a string of relationships with hot girls. Todd Louiso gets hooked up with a cute punk chick. Jack Black gets nothing. Sound familliar?

Amy Rose Blossom, while a hedgehog, is undoubtedly attractive
LOL no.

And I also just thought of a little response to your "thin enough" deal:

The media basically says the perfect men need to be attractive and in great shape. Well...

How many men have nearly killed themselves trying to get in shape enough to be accepted? For every successful and attractive *male* supermodel or movie actor, there's hundreds of thousands of those who didn't make the cut.

And for those who are stupid... yes, overexercising CAN kill you. As well as drinking too many energy drinks for said overexercising.

It's true.. a lot of things are done using the wrong reasons. Basically everyone needs an excuse for some sexed up thing. 😛 But *sigh* it IS depressing.

I just wanted to randomly note this. In Dungeons & Dragons, I've had as many female characters as I have male characters. None of my female characters have been "well endowed", or overly sexual, or in some cases even attractive. And they acted like "real people". Not like characters, with lavish lifestyles. Just like down to earth, friendly women. And I've been told that I play them very, very respectfully and well. (And no, not everyone that has told me that was a male. Both girls I've played with told me I played women better than they did, and almost always played male characters).

But that's just in my individual circles, where we can accept women as more than "eye candy" and sex symbols. The mainstream still can't grasp it, unfortunately.

And my first comment on it, a minor correction:

Rinoa Heartily - Lead female character in Final Fantasy VIII.
Final Fantasy XI - MMORPG with no lead characters.

As a huge fan of both of those games, I had to clear that up, sorry x_X;; (Speaking of stereotypes, let's look at every male in FFVIII. Hell, every character in all of the Final Fantasies with actual character development. Steroeotypes is what the media world needs to thrive on.)

All I can say is, as a female gamer, I've just gotten to the point in my life where I don't really care how sexy a woman dresses or how many times Princess Peach is captured, I just play games because it's fun. It's just my opinion and how I view things nowadays in most cases.

There might be exceptions, who knows. I just haven't felt any yet...
~Neo

Lets put something in my terms. I understand how women can be about the characters of games. But look at some of what us men are against. x.x I see all these fangirls with "OMG CLOUD/VASH/TIDUS/LINK etc IS SO HOT!"

I'm jealous. x.x

~T2K

What are you talking about, Harley? Everyone has to be sexy to sell. Both genders.

cloud and link crossover slash plz

Three points need to be made here: 80% of gamers are men between the ages of 18 and 27. For every hot female game character, there are three hot male game characters. And surely, even female gamers would rather play as Lara or Asuka than as a fat, burger-eating, cellulite-ridden, hairy hermaphrodite.

Point taken, and understood. But why does every female character have to be scantily clad in some way? It doesn't even make sense, practically speaking, because honestly a lot of their outfits are completely impractical for what they're doing, like fighting, swimming, etc. Besides that, a girl could still be hot and dress modestly or even overdress. Samus Aran is a good example of this and she's one of my fave characters for it, though even she "dresses down" as a "reward" at the end of the game. You don't get male characters doing that, regardless of who's being targeted here. And because of this reinforcement, males are getting incorrect ideas about women.

As opposed to male characters? Gimme a Goddam break. Neo can't get his eyes off Trinity, Donnie is obsessed with Gretchen, Dante lusts after Caitlin. That's the most ridiculous observation I've ever seen.

Perhaps you missed my point because I didn't state it clearly enough. My point was that virtually every female character is involved in some kind of relationship, whereas not all males are. Many male characters, even when they are part of a mixed team, do not show any inclination toward romance. The majority of females are either involved in a relationship, or are viewed in a sexual manner rather than in the context that they are actually in. Hence my complaint; it's not that romance is bad, it's just that females are inproportionately used in relationships while males do not find themselves "stuck" in a romance as often by far.

That's their frigging problem for chasing after a body they don't have. It's more our cultural obsession with fame and money than it is the fault of any individual piece of entertainment. If a girl born with slow metabolism decides OMG I WANT 2 B LIEK BRITANY SPEERS and gives herself brain damage by becoming a fruitarian, that's her problem.

And the gaming and movie industries aren't trying to produce good role models of larger women or skinny women with hardly any bust. They are generally defining sexy as skinny with a big bust, and they don't care whether an individual girl has a fast or slow metabolism. It'd be stupid to assume it's all the fault of the entertainment industry, but they have a significant impact on our culture and we're overlooking the damage it's causing.

Note that I'm not trying to go on a crusade here, I'm just trying to point things out and have people look at this more objectively. We're just accepting what we're being spoon-fed nowadays by the media, and that's dumb because the media doesn't look out for our best interests, they're just trying to sell us something and make us think we "need" it.

With the exception of my girlfriend (who, by the way, is utterly insane), I don't know any women who like to see men in tight or revealing clothing.

And it could be the case that women in general don't like seeing men in tight or revealing clothing. I don't know that they like seeing their own gender represented in such a slanted way, either.

And as for the remarks about Amy Rose, eh, she's honestly more of the "cute girl" stereotype, which is accompanied by Rouge's "sexy" stereotype. While it gets more into the opinion of individual preference when we talk about anthro characters, it can't be denied that at least some of them (like Krystal from StarFox Adventure) are specifically designed to sexually appeal - which is another thing, why is it that none of the guys are ever truly designed for that?

Sonic games are actually representative of the case I'm making in general here. I'll use Sonic Heroes as the most recent example. You have Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, none of whom have a romantic interest (some might argue, but at least as far as Sonic Heroes, Sonic has never actually reciprocated feelings for Amy; likewise for Knuckles with Rouge). All guys, none designed sexually. Same with the Chaotix team. Then you have Shadow, Rouge and Omega. Omega being "male" is irrelevant since it's a war machine robot with only the objective of destruction, but Shadow at least has been hinted at having strong feelings for Maria (which were probably more along the lines of deep friendship rather than romance, but at least we're finally getting some feeling out of a guy). Then we have Rouge, specifically designed especially for heroes to have a special suit that emphasizes her cleavage. NOT a very practical choice for a government agent, and she is one of the few characters who has a clear romantic interest in another character, Knuckles. She also happens to be female. And then there's Amy, Big and Cream and Cheese. Amy of course has a romantic interest in Sonic, though Cream and Big seem to be along merely for the ride.

There you have it, a game where the majority of the female characters are designed to at least partially appeal to sexuality (Amy and Rouge, regardless of opinions about Amy's design), and the same majority of females are the only characters who show any kind of romantic interest in other characters.

Is this representative of every game? No, and not for movies either. But the majority of movies, games, books, etc. feature this sort of thing going on.

Is it all bad? Maybe not, I'm more against the blatant use of women as sexual objects than I am against romance in general in games and stuff. Boys are still taught to be cool and be violent, and girls are taught to be cute and be more social. Some cultural stuff isn't going to go away because we want it to.

Three points need to be made here: 80% of gamers are men between the ages of 18 and 27. For every hot female game character, there are three hot male game characters. And surely, even female gamers would rather play as Lara or Asuka than as a fat, burger-eating, cellulite-ridden, hairy hermaphrodite.

Point taken, and understood. But why does every female character have to be scantily clad in some way?

So it will sell.

So it will sell.

Yes, I already addressed this. People just don't like reading my posts.

I'm not arguing that it won't sell, I'm just pointing out the inequality that the entertainment industry is capitalizing on by permitting these misconceptions to continue. Regardless of the reason why it's being done, it is being done, and it's having an impact on society.

I was adressing your question about the nudies.

If the newspapers didn't have those dreadful Page Three pictures of skinny, busty women, if video game industries didn't have women as the busty victim, if films occasionally used a normal woman as an actress in their action films, then young girls would not have it drummed into their heads that thin is good. And young boys would not have it drummed into their heads that breasts are best, rather than for example someone capable of an engaging conversation.

Women have a minor tendency, even when playing the bad guy, to fall for the hero. Batman Returns is an excellent example.

And when women are bad guys, they're almost always jewel theives. And not just that, but they're fascinated by them - they're not for selling, they're for keeping and staring at. Rouge is a perfect example. Poison Ivy, while not a thief, walks into an auction, breathes on the guys, and takes a load of gems.

Did you read anyone's responses at all?

If the newspapers didn't have those dreadful Page Three pictures of skinny, busty women

Europe only, not an American problem.

if video game industries didn't have women as the busty victim

Peach isn't busty. Amy Rose isn't busty. Zelda isn't busty. And all are fully clothed. I can't think of many, if any, "busty" female "victims" in games.

if films occasionally used a normal woman as an actress in their action films, then young girls would not have it drummed into their heads that thin is good

Ever hear of Drew Barrymore?

And young boys would not have it drummed into their heads that breasts are best, rather than for example someone capable of an engaging conversation.

I'd prefer the conversation, please.

Women have a minor tendency, even when playing the bad guy, to fall for the hero. Batman Returns is an excellent example.

Minor. MINOR?! You just got through saying that they fall in love all the time.

And when women are bad guys, they're almost always jewel theives. And not just that, but they're fascinated by them - they're not for selling, they're for keeping and staring at. Rouge is a perfect example. Poison Ivy, while not a thief, walks into an auction, breathes on the guys, and takes a load of gems.

Stereotypes.

I know they're stereotypes. I hate stereotypes. For a start, they don't exist in real life.

And yes, I said minor tendency. Ever seen MI2? Tom Cruise beds down that english jewel thief within about 24 hours of meeting her. After he's screwed up a 1/2 million necklace theft and run her off the road. Then persuades her to start shagging her old boyfriend again to make it easy for him to track the guy down.

God I hate that film.

Drew Barrymore, huh? Name three others.

Drew Barrymore, huh? Name three others.

If I followed pop culture and knew the names of more than about 15 celebrities I'm sure I'd tell you.

So you can't even name one other? That means that as it stands, 1 in 15 of actresses are normal, while the rest are anorexic and make up for it with breast implants.

One other? Sure. Alicia Silverstone.

1 in 15 of actresses are normal

Like 10 of the 15 celebrities I can think of off the top of my head are male.

Anyway, this is going off the topic. My other pet rant on Female Empowerment is that people seem to think thatit's impossible for women to be unattractive and successful at the same time.

Even businesswomen in videogames and films have to be attractive to get that high.

Women have a minor tendency, even when playing the bad guy, to fall for the hero. Batman Returns is an excellent example.
There was no female villian in Batman returns. Moreso, the female lead fell for BRUCE WAYNE. NOT Batman, if I recall, she was actually somewhat disgusted with his more violent ways of solving cirme... right?
She was also a strong character who stuck by her will untill the end and was determined to fight crime.
And when women are bad guys, they're almost always jewel theives.
from what I recall, they're usually stone cold killers.

Alternately, this entire thread reveals that alot of people feel it's impossible to be intelligent when one "looks like Britney Spears".

Anyways, yeah, old news, women are misrepresented in the media. There are plenty of studies charting eating disorder trends in young girls, average salaries in women by supposed "beauty factor", plastic sugery as an addictive fad and high consumer trends toward beauty products in women of all ages.

::Just decided to poke his head in the topic to help Wesu out. Note: This is not to say DL likes Pop culture, he friggin hates how annoying overbearing it is, but umm this was just sounding like a challenge. And it gives him eason to think up 15 Actresses ** that are Normal/unattractive.::

I may be off topic but lemme pick up where Wesu dropped off. All these people are normal/unattractive.
Drew Barrymore {XD Rolled when I read that}
Alicia Silverstone.

And lets add on.
Kristie Alley
Ellen Degeneres
Helen Hunt
The lady that was the elf queen in LOTR-she was just plain UGLY XD.
Patricia Arquette
Ariana Richards {Lex in JP}
Macy Gray {Ok she's not an actor but she came to mind right quick xD}
Whoopi Goldberg {Why am I laughing about this xD}
Janeane Garofalo
Leelee Sobieski
Laura Dern
Michelle Rodriguez--{Screw Blue Crush that movie was horrible, the plot was around a rock. XD}
Bea Author
Betty White
Roselle Getty {Anyone get those three will KNOW why Im laughing really hard}
Oprah! OPRAH! OOOOPRAH! EWWWWIE!

Sex sells. Its the slogan of the capitalistic world{Well one ofthem}. I can think of about 50-and no I'm not listing them here. I did about 15 right there.

Its just unfortunate that we see only "attractive" women all scantily clad because that's the only way alot of these films and products sell.
Im just saying there are plenty more women out there that dont fit that demographic-and still are damned successful. I think its more like 60%-40% actually.

Thanks for the help, DL. I want to slap myself for not remembering some of those. XD

Bea Arthur
Betty White
Roselle Getty {Anyone get those three will KNOW why Im laughing really hard}

I DEMAND A GOLDEN GIRLS THEME!!!!

Alternately, this entire thread reveals that alot of people feel it's impossible to be intelligent when one "looks like Britney Spears".

Stereotypes on both sides of the board are present, unfortunately. Good point, helps to get some other thinking done besides "OHNOEZ! WOMEN IN BIKINIS ARE THE ONLY REASON TO BUY THIS PRODUCT!"

But honestly, things are getting out of hand with women being misrepresented in the media. Take Unreal Tournament 3, or whatever the most recent one is. I saw a poster for that which had a guy and a girl, the guy dressed in nearly full battle armor while the gal had minimal form-fitting revealing "armor." THAT annoys me the most of anything because that's just darned impractical and unrealistic to try to fight in a glorified leotard.

I think that's why it's been annoying me so much lately, because it's so blatantly done merely to sell a game. If a game or other product has to be dressed up with sex to sell, then what would happen if the sex was removed? Would the product really be worth having? And, would it prove just how driven we are by mere bodily urges and that we are being taken advantage of?

But anyhoo, I think the point's been made clear, and this is a rehash of women being misrepresented in the media.

And for some reason I find DL's list amusing, as well, though probably not as much as he does.

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Women have a minor tendency, even when playing the bad guy, to fall for the hero. Batman Returns is an excellent example.
There was no female villian in Batman returns. Moreso, the female lead fell for BRUCE WAYNE. NOT Batman, if I recall, she was actually somewhat disgusted with his more violent ways of solving cirme... right?
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Batman RETURNS!! With catwoman and Pengin. You may be thinking of Batman Begins.

The lady that was the elf queen in LOTR-she was just plain UGLY XD.
Are you fuggin' joking? Cate Blanchett is SO hot. Maybe not so much as Galadriel, but DAMN.

Take Unreal Tournament 3, or whatever the most recent one is. I saw a poster for that which had a guy and a girl, the guy dressed in nearly full battle armor while the gal had minimal form-fitting revealing "armor." THAT annoys me the most of anything because that's just darned impractical and unrealistic to try to fight in a glorified leotard.
That was Hellgate: London, and technically, a neoprene suit is a hell of a lot easier to move around in than what amounts to a particularly heavy garbage can. Hell, I'd rather have the neoprene suit. I'd probably collapse under all the armor the guy's wearing.

o.O Cyc..Cate Blanch--Wait hold on..

::Goes to IMDB for a moment::

O geez, I hate how much makeup they put on her then. She reminded me of this story that was in "Scary Stories 3" of this possessed cloud or like, old woman or somethng..man I wonder if I can get that book and scan that picture I'm thnking of..., anyway, it kinda freaked me out. Take her off the list, I concede defeat.

...

>> << Well. just cause you asked Wesu...

Thank you for being a friend
Traveled down the road and back again
Your heart is true your a pal and a confidant.
And if you threw a party
Invited everyone you ever knew
You would see the biggest gift would be from me
And the card attached would say thank you for being a friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Makes you all giggly inside. or maybe that's just me.

I meant a Golden Girls MFC theme, but okay. oO

Well, UT2K4 DOES have a woman on the front cover, but aside from being pretty busty, she's more or less well-covered. As, might I add, are most of the in-game characters.

X_X! Meesa mind dosen't work too well.

I second that. Golden Girls theme!

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from what I recall, they're usually stone cold killers.

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Yeah, the female bad guy in most modern action movies is usually the most sadistic and violent of the bunch (Die Hard 3, for example).

And back to the 'videogames' part, it's not ALL videogames that succumb to the stereotypes. For instance: Max Payne 2. Easily one of the best-done love stories in all of videogames done with one of the strongest (and hottest IMO) female leads ever.

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How many men have nearly killed themselves trying to get in shape enough to be accepted? For every successful and attractive *male* supermodel or movie actor, there's hundreds of thousands of those who didn't make the cut.

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Granted, that's bad, but there are more standards of male beauty then there are female beauty. For men you can have anything from the grizzled cop, the scrawny rockstar, the muscular wrestler, the pouty boytoy, the passionate artist, the suave gentleman. All of these men are attractive in their own way. Handsome men come in all different shapes, sizes, builds, ages, styles and dispositions.

The only beautiful women (and I know there are exceptions so please don't go on a litany) you see in the media are young, tall, skinny, large-eyed, straight-nosed, and have long flowing hair and big boobs. Polynesian girls, who have always been stocky, are starving themselves because they want to look like tall white girls. This is an anthropologically studied phenomenon. Chinese women in China are getting eye surgery to make their eyes more Caucasian and buying skin-whitening cream. Even the Asian, Black and Latina female models/actresses are relatively tall and pale-skinned. I'm not saying have ugly women on TV (Wesu is right, no one will buy), but have women who are beautiful in different ways.

Also, beauty is given more prominence in women's lives than men's. Look at the cover for any women's magazines. You'll get ...this year's spring fashions.. how to do your hair like the stars.. drop ten pounds in two weeks....

Men's magazines? I'm a straight girl, and I started reading Maxim because it has more interesting content than say, Cosmopolitan. The best summer movies, how to get your own private helicopter, the country's most delicious sandwiches, Star Wars props, ways politicians are spending your money irresponsibly. Hm. Who is under more pressure about their appearance, men or women?

I know this is a double edged sword. Men are under more pressure to be successful at work and in sports, for example. Women can say, "I've decided I want to stay home with the family" or "I don't like sports." Men can't do that, and it's unfortunate. However, just because men have problems doesn't mean that problems for women don't exist. It'd be like saying, "Yeah, there are poor kids in Africa, but there are poor kids in the US too." Just because something is equally bad doesn't mean things are good. I hope this makes sense.

Also, who creates male standards of beauty? I hear: "Lara Croft is idealized, but so is Duke Nukem."

Yes. Lara Croft is how men want women to look like. Duke Nukem is how men want men to look like. Think about how crazy muscular men in comics and video games are. I play D&D with male players. Check Epilogue, or Elfwood, or Deviantart. The majority of male RP character portraits drawn by men are all crazy muscular.

Yes, it is tragic that a lot of men go crazy on steroids and dieting trying to look like that. However, it's important to make the distinction that crazy buff guys are not what women want out of men, it's the pressure men create for themselves.

A muscular man for every busty woman is not equality. Equal dysfunction is not equality.

PS: Stumbleina, I dub you the Forum's Official Feminist. You go, girl! 😛

Don't have much to say to that, except...

Lara Croft is how men want women to look like.

WRONGO. At least, wrong for me.

What do men want women to look like? I've been utterly confused about this for much of my life. Do guys like skintight stuff? Or do they like more modest gamer-type clothes? My wardrobe has an equal amount of both. One day, I'll be in one of my Sonic or Zelda t-shirts and guy pants, and the very next day I'll be in platform sandals and a push-up bra.

Of course, the fact that I'm a gamer could be why my romantic life is nothing short of pure w00tness, even though I'm not exactly attractive. I have the same interests as most guys. Like 85% of my friends are guys.

I've heard that guys like curves on a girl. Does this mean that toothpick-thin anorexia is not considered attractive by the majority of guys? I certainly hope so, because I hate going through life with a hawk-nose and seeing movie posters with picture-perfect Lara Crofts on them.

And by the way, even though I'm a girl, I've found Amy Rose a lot more attractive than Rouge.

And I'm not totally sure what my main point was.

In my point of view, all guys have different tastes. It just seems that the vast majority of men go for the busty, curvy females rather than the anorexic look.

At the end of the day, though nice to look at, it's the personality that really matters. The physical appearance doesn't always reflect on the persons character.

Anyway, beauty is skin deep. I might have sounded rather sickening just then.

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What do men want women to look like?

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No two people think alike, so that's just a redundant Carrie Bradshaw-ism.

I have to admit, I would find a girl to be very attractive if she was a gamer. Of course, if we were both interested in the very same types of games, it might end up that we'd get into arguments over who gets to play the newest game first, and that could be very competitive.

But oh well, there is a price for everything. 😛

Wow, this topic has branched out in more ways than I thought it would.

What do men want women to look like?

That's hard to say, since everyone is attracted to different things. For me... it doesn't matter, really, but I do have a tendancy to be attracted to shorter girls (usually about 5' to 5'3")... not sure why, guess I just find them cuter. Obesity is kind of a turn off, but I don't like them to be horribly skinny, either. I usually find glasses on girls attractive, as well.

For clothing... depends on the situation, I guess. I generally prefer girls to be dressed somewhat decently; not looking like total skanks. T-shirt and pants? Sure, why not? Tanktop and short-shorts? Sure. Barely-there tubetop with skirts so short that you can see their thong? No thanks.

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Forum's Official Feminist.

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I would hope I'd have gotten that title after I declared Feminist Studies (one of) my major(s) in university.

Oh goodness, don't get me started on the ditzy but pretty RPG characters who are just plain useless and painful to watch (Rinoa)...

I find it funny how an actress Kristey Alley is overweight and enjoying it. I sort of like it how she sticks it to the critics and still look pretty good (And funny)...and it seems from what I hear (Okay so this may be just a black issue) but a lot of the guys I know don't want a rail thin skinny beauty...just sayin...

Funnily enough, I tripped over this article this morning.

hmmm...does anyone find the 60s Batman series sexest towards men? I mean, you got a middle aged guy and a teenaged boy running around in tights, the younger one wearing see through tights on his legs as well. Surely, by all logic, it's the same thing here.

Men in fiction like games, comics or cartoons tend to be portrayed as muscle bound men in tights or even just pants, or pretty boys who look more like women at times (Laguna in FFVIII), why is it that whenever this type of thing is brought up it's the female side thats highlighted, yes it is inequal, but only in the public interpritation that is focused on the women. Soul Calibur 2 is a good example, while the girls are either in skirts, leather or gi with some amount of armour in alternate suits, the men are just as scantally clad at times, with only Raphiel and Link who never show anymore skin than their faces. Hell, Misturugi has a costume which is just a loose robe and his pants, HE'S IN HIS PANTS!! Asteroth is always nearly naked and Nightmare, Maxi and Killik all like to bare their chests, and don't get me started on Voldo.

The thing is, players, veiwers, readers and whatnot like pretty faces with pretty bodies, clothing just adds to the prettyness.

Oh, and about Chun Li;

She has no romantic interest, is not skinny, she's quite muscular (especially her legs, which makes sense considering her most famous attack), wheres a suit that isn't really that revealing at all, has always been a strong character in the series, and in Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, she is very strong, very fast, and very agile, she is actually one of the best characters throughout the series and is often described in the games as "the strongest woman in the world".

Just cause she's pretty doesn't make her a sexest attempt of equality amoung genders.

I still don't get why most other men find Chun Li attractive. She disturbs me. :O

Chun Li had a famously gratuitously titillating shower scene in the Street Fighter II animated movie. As much as a fan of Street Fighter I am it's not really hard to see that pretty much all of Capcom's female fighting game characters are T&A oriented (some more so than others).

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In my point of view, all guys have different tastes. It just seems that the vast majority of men go for the busty, curvy females rather than the anorexic look.

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I agree. This is how I explain it. Anorexic women are usually fashion models, because the point of them isn't nescessarily to be sexy. They're supposed to look sophisticated, refined, and striking. While porn stars, for example, are supposed to be sexy, so they're curvy. Anorexic and busty are different types of beauty. This doesn't negate the fact that they are in general the *only* accepted types of female beauty, which is what we were complaining about in this thread in the first place.

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hmmm...does anyone find the 60s Batman series sexest towards men? I mean, you got a middle aged guy and a teenaged boy running around in tights, the younger one wearing see through tights on his legs as well. Surely, by all logic, it's the same thing here.

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Just wearing revealing clothes doesn't make something sexist. On National Geographic documentaries, tribal women run around the rainforest naked. That isn't sexist. Clothes, or lack of clothes doesn't make something sexist or not, it's the attitude something's treated with.

For example, Lara Croft is actually quite practically dressed and decently covered for an explorer and archaeologist- short sleeved shirts, shorts and boots. That's really what a man would wear too. However, what is annoying is the way that an intelligent, active and beautiful heroine is marketed like a stupid bimbo whose only only asset is her boobs. The issue is necessarily what she's wearing, it's how she's treated. I should also argue that being tough doesn't equal "strong female character." By "strong" we don't mean physically strong, we mean well written, fleshed-out women with real personalities, real motives, fears, and quirks. Just because a bimbo has a gun and can use it doesn't make her not a bimbo.

I do agree that the preference for showing prettyboy men and uber-muscular men in video games is a bit sexist towards men, but this is because people have a preference towards good-looking people. Men have it better than women in the media still, because there is a vastly more varied range of men's roles than women's. Older men and less attractive men have their place in tv and film. Yes, there are a lot of prettyboys and big buff guys in films, but there are also plain-ish middle-aged and older male stars. I'm not a film buff, but off the top of my head... Tom Hanks, Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman, Russel Crowe, Jack Black, Nicholas Cage, Ray Romano, Billy Bob Thorton and many more are all highly successful. It's harder to name older and middle-aged actresses who are still successful. I can think of a good deal of male comedians. Female comedians, I can only thnk of one or two. This is what I'm talking about. Lack of range in women's roles, and therein, women's portrayals.

(Man, and don't even get me started about color.)