Yes, they really are crazy out in Hollywood. From today's New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/18/business/media/18ratings.html&OP=4ecef963/Q2AQ241pQ2AlZAb-ZZQ26Q3AQ2AQ3Aqq)Q2AqQ25Q2AQ5E|Q2AptbC}1bbQ2A41lCQ5DQ2AQ5E|-Q5DQ26C}HbQ5BJQ264 F">www.nytimes.com/auth/logi...bQ5BJQ264F
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The Motion Picture Association of America's ratings code - G, PG, PG-13, R and NC-17 - is so familiar that the initials are used in everyday conversation about subjects that have nothing to do with movies. But that doesn't mean that the association wants just anybody to use them.
Recently the association sent e-mail messages and letters to people who write online fan fiction, demanding that they stop tagging stories with the ratings. Fan fiction, which uses characters from popular TV shows, movies and novels in original stories, has used movie ratings for years as a way to help adults find stories with mature content and to steer children away from it. Too many children looking for Harry Potter stories were stumbling onto new and unexpected uses for wands.
"We have a right to go after people who use our trademarks without permission, big or small, whenever we find out about them," said John Feehery, executive vice president for the association. "Our ratings are not supposed to be ripped off."
Wendy Seltzer, a lawyer with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, argues that the association would have a point only if the fiction sites had claimed that association reviewers had rated the works. Using the ratings as a rough comparison is not a trademark infringement, she said: "It's like saying a beverage tastes like Coke."
Heidi Tandy, a lawyer who is also president of fictionalley.org , an archive of Harry Potter fiction, added that ratings such as PG and R are not exclusive to the association, since they are used by some foreign film boards. Movie ratings are also used online to tag jokes and photos, so the association may have a difficult time stripping its ratings from the cultural vocabulary.
Nevertheless, the association's cease-and-desist letters have had a ripple effect, with many fan fiction sites switching to new ratings schemes. One fan fiction writer archly suggested a simple visual code: one bunny picture means no smut, two bunnies means smut ahead.
What. the. heck?
I'd seen many companies going crazy over other individuals using their trademarks/works but this is just plain crazy.
Okay, we'll use the BBFC (or whatever) and their ratings system - E, U, PH, 12A, 15, 18. And in a few years, when they notice, we'll perhaps use the Japanese rating system.
Hey, did you know that Fafiction.net has changed its Fanfiction rating system? Is it perhaps because of this?
The bloody point of fanfiction is that we're not getting paid. We already claim that they aren't our characters, do we really have to claim that it isn't our rating system?
You forgot 12. And PH?
Have to agree with Harley here, the irony that they are causing legal action over the RATING SYSTEM being used without permission for stories which consist of characters, themes and worlds which are used without permission...
It makes my head hurt.
How horrible for them that the rating system they use has bcome so popular and well-known that it has passed into common usage.
I mean, I'm so sad for them.
We could always use the ESRB system. That seems to be popular.
Ya know, EC, E, E10+, T, M, AO...
... which will eventually lead to a situation similar to this. What's wrong with this crazy world?
Actually, I don't think the ESRB is quite so paranoid about copyright violations. I mean, the MPAA was already going crazy-go-nuts over pirated movies, so it'd be more natural that they become MORE insane. The ESRB, though? What do THEY have that could be pirated?...
How stupid is that? Its the RATINGS SYSTEM, not the FANFICTION they're going after?
.....Now I have to laugh. XD
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Too many children looking for Harry Potter stories were stumbling onto new and unexpected uses for wands.
um....ICK!
12 isn't used much now, J-man. And PH? I meant PG.
And for those who don't know, E means Exempt, and goes on things like exercise videos.
Oh, and there's also Uc, which is for tiny tots.
So it goes E, Uc, U, PG, 12, 12A, 15, 18, X.
It seems to appear that the MPAA have nothing better to do with their time. Do they actually plan to sue fanfics? Absolute madness.
BBFC ratings-
Hey - this board is advertised as PG-13! The MoFo will be sued too!
Isn't there a thing called freedom of speech in the United States? Yea isn't that like our 1st right?
There just trying to find more ways to get money. Same as RIAA suing people for music, but thats a different story.
Isn't there a thing called freedom of speech in the United States? Yea isn't that like our 1st right?
Ever heard of copyright law?
Well, that's gotta suck - well, for fanfic authors who use those ratings anyway. XD
I think I'll just stick to the ratings Australia uses. C, G, PG, M15+, MA15+, R18+, and my ever-so-favourite, X18+.
I have the utmost faith in my government's system that nothing like what just happened will occur.
Honestly though, I'm finding it very difficult to give a damn. Fanfiction writers should be glad they're just being asked not to use the MPAA's rating system. If I were a big film company, I'd be highly tempted to open a massive can of legal whoop-ass on them for using my copyrighted materials without asking. Fair-use legislation was only ever designed to allow people to mention copyrighted materials in general conversation or writing without having their asses sued off. Taking a copyrighted rating system and using it for your own purposes without asking the people who own the copyright for it contravenes copyright law, plain and simple.
If you want to give readers an idea of what your piece contains, take a number and put a plus sign next to it. Or, if you're like me and you think it's better that people figure out for themselves whether they're mature enough for something, just jot down a basic overline of what they'll be seeing.
Fan Fiction is free. You're not making money off of that. No one is.
And like they said, lots of websites use it. Webcomics, random image sites; let's face it, saying "RATED R" and "RATED PG" has been embedded in American culture. It's like when someone wants cola; nobody says cola anymore, it's either "Coke" or "Pepsi", most of the time. It's become synonymous. So why the hell are they having a cow is beyond me.
Again, it's not like people are selling their fics with these things on there. Besides, if they do, they get sued anyway for copyright infringement of POPULAR CHARACTERS and profiting from them.
MPAA is lame. Just like the RIAA. They can burn in hell.
Hey, I'm not supporting their lawsuits. I'm just saying that from a legal standpoint, they are quite correct in saying that it contravenes copyright law.
It falls under fair use, dude. You're not selling it, you're not using their nifty little symbols (which is just the letter inside a block with a very brief description of what it means on the bottom), and you're not giving them a bad name.
They're completely going up a creek without a paddle on this one. Why they started is BEYOND me.
Give me a couple of years to study international copyright law and I'll let you know who's right.
However, judging from what little I know of British law, whether you make money from it isn't the only thing that determines a breach of copyright.
You're not selling it, you're not using their nifty little symbols (which is just the letter inside a block with a very brief description of what it means on the bottom), and you're not giving them a bad name.
That's one of the big myths about copyright law. Whether you charge can affect the damages awarded in court, but that's main difference under the law. It's still a violation if you give it away -- and there can still be serious damages if you hurt the commercial value of the property. There is an exception for personal copying of music, which is not a violation, though courts seem to have said that doesn't include widescale anonymous personal copying as Napster. If the work has no commercial value, the violation is mostly technical and is unlikely to result in legal action, but it can.
The "fair use" exemption to US copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author.
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Actually, I don't think the ESRB is quite so paranoid about copyright violations. I mean, the MPAA was already going crazy-go-nuts over pirated movies, so it'd be more natural that they become MORE insane. The ESRB, though? What do THEY have that could be pirated?...
Funny you should say that, since Newgrounds got a C+D from them for using a rating system that was a little too similar to theirs. It's hard to comment on such an act without breaking this board's PG-13 rating. Wait, oops...
The ESRB, though? What do THEY have that could be pirated?...
The ESRB is a group created by the Interactive Digital Software Association, which is pretty much the gaming equivalent of the MPAA and RIAA. But they get brownie points for being the reason games aren't illegal yet.
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...for being the reason games aren't illegal yet.
I don't know why, but when I read that I got the funniest image in my head of game stores becoming illegal and thus having to go underground. And then you'd have to go and knock on a door in a certain way at a certain time. That, or arrange to meet an underground games dealer. And you'd be there speaking in low voices. And you'd go "Have you got any... Cube...?" (because of course if you were heard to be saying an actual console name, you'd be arrested on the spot!) And they'd go
"...I know a guy who knows a guy. I'll hook you up."
...damn, I'm having a way too awesome work of fiction idea now! XD
Err, anyway. Yes, the MPAA are highly fruity, and taste like candyfloss.
On a serious note, this whole thing does strike me as somewhat bizarre, and further proof that I'll never understand the legal system. Ah well.
~SilverShadow.
It is possible to say that some fanfiction writers damage the MPAA's name, by not rating properly, or at least, they could use that, but it's hardly damaging their name is it?
Doubtless this stupid case will be thrown out of court for being impossible to track.
Most cases like these never make it to court anyways; usually what happens is the defendant pays them a couple grand in an out-of-court settlement. Some people actually take it to court and it usually gets thrown out, though they still end up paying a couple grand to someone (this being a lawyer).
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The ESRB is a group created by the Interactive Digital Software Association, which is pretty much the gaming equivalent of the MPAA and RIAA. But they get brownie points for being the reason games aren't illegal yet.
Do you actually think that video games might be outlawed in the near future? Or was that just a hyperbole?
So from now on, all nose wiping things shall never be called kleenex unless its that brand. Tissues? hmm... doesnt someone have the copywright to that name too? what about orange? did the color name come first or did the fruit... we must put our names on this to keep it as our own!
this reminds me alot of those people who make a web site with a name on it thats really a famous persons name, and so they chare that person a crapload of money just to have the domain name. what malarchi is this? the world may never know...
If I ever made a website, I might make it a mispelling of Amazon or Ebay and rake it in from people who type too fast.
That's if. I really need to take some sort of course...
Anyway, back to fanfiction - some art sites use the MPAA guidelines to rate pictures - are the artists of those going to be sued too?
Do you actually think that video games might be outlawed in the near future? Or was that just a hyperbole?
Hyperbole.
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So from now on, all nose wiping things shall never be called kleenex unless its that brand.
Exactly! That would absolutely make my day. It amazes me how ingrained in American culture it's become to call all tissues "Kleenexes". It's like calling Halo a "Nintendo" instead of a "video game".
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Tissues? hmm... doesnt someone have the copywright to that name too?
No.
It's called Superbranding, when a product is so well seeded into the market that it has taken the name of the service or product it provides. My company is one, for Market Research, which companies call "Mintel" Market Intellegance. Mintel is the name of the company I work for.
Other common superbrand-names:
Coke. Opposed to Cola.
Celotape. Instead of sticky back plastic.
Tip-Ex. Instead of correction fluid.
Xerox. Instead of photocopy.
There are tons and tons of superbrands. Apparently Kleenex is a superbrand in America.
Superbrands = 🙁
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Other common superbrand-names:
Coke. Opposed to Cola.
Celotape. Instead of sticky back plastic.
Tip-Ex. Instead of correction fluid.
Xerox. Instead of photocopy.
I haven't heard of those middle two, Craig. Must be a UK thing.
Two other really common ones I know of are Q-Tips and Rollerblade.
Kinda like how it's a band-aid, not an adhesive bandage.
I rarely ever type my fan fics online, because I'm simply nervous/embarassed to show them.
I stopped going to fanfiction.net after they axed real person-based fics. Those are the ones I enjoy reading the most. Most RPB fics are written by teenyboppers fantasizing about their favorite pop stars and their Mary Sue characters, but there are some good ones out there.
Sometimes, people come up with real ridiculous pairings. I urge you all not to browse any Good Charlotte fics without caution--Benji x Joel twincest seems to be the main portion of it.
I can see that many celebrities would probaly be offended or weirded out by the stories their fans write about them, but some are flattered. Someone at Fandomination said they once gave a fic they wrote about someone to someone different, but in the same band. The guy they gave it to actually liked it, and wanted the person to write a fic about him.
I see them as a way of showing love for person x (though, of course there are the OMG DIE!!! fics). If you've seen my gallery on DA, you'll know I draw a lot of little comics about Eminem and various other rap stars.
Shoot, back on topic.
We can always refer to the V-Chip ratings: G, Y, Y7, PG, 14, and MA.
The difference between G and Y is that G is generally suitable for all auidences. So is Y, but it is meant to appeal to kids. Y7 is a kid's show reccomended for children that know the difference between reality and fantasy. PG is parental guidance suggested, 14 means not suitable for auidences under 13, and MA, of course, means "mature".
EDIT: Forgot something!
I don't think MPAA's ratings are worth digging up copyright notices for. They're generally accepted by the American population.
My rambling on the fan fiction has reminded me that Eminem once sued a company for using his name in their website domain (to get more hits), and won. =D
Also, as this is relevant to both discussions. Photoshop has become a superbrand for the act of photomanipulation, however Adobe made it part of their ToS recently that you are no allowed to slander Adobe products by using their product name alone, and you have to refer to it as "Adobe Photoshop" or you are in breach of service. Which is not important for home users, but business users can get sued to heck for "slandering" the product by not using the company name along with the brand.
Companies are so anal sometimes...
Slightly away from the topic, but I was surprised to see this on the front page of Fanfiction.net:
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In addition, FanFiction.Net would like to address a growing problem. For whatever reason, some writers feel it's okay to copy-n-paste musical lyrics they have not written into their fiction. If you did not write it, do not post it. This has always been our policy. Please remove these entries immediately to avoid account closure.
I wonder what sparked this?
Im not sure exactly what they mean, but by the sounds of it not only are they purging songfics (no massive loss, IMO) but possibly anything that uses lyrics at all (accounting for about 80% of the material on there). Not that it really matters on FF.net, of course, because they just seem to delete anything that gets reported without checking that it actually violates the rules, anyway. Still, I wonder what's going on?
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I haven't heard of those middle two, Craig. Must be a UK thing.
The Coke one depends on which part of the U.S. you live in. We have many different names to refer to soda/pop/[insert other variations] in the U.S. and it tends to vary by region.
i hope some of my freinds notice the new rule regarding songfics, as they use those as inspiration for their story.
although those that seem to read as one line of song lyrics followed by a line of their story do seem rather short and not overly origional.
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because they just seem to delete anything that gets reported without checking that it actually violates the rules
that happens on several sites, DA is one i hear the most complaints about.
