1. I personally like the current layout as opposed to the confusing threaded layout. It was always a pain because I ended up clicking on the first post of any given thread in any case because that was the only way to reliably see all of the posts and in what order they were made in. At the present, all you have to do is click on the post and then the page you need, which is more convenient in my opinion.

2. It may or may not make MFC 2 unnecessary, but then again, it can be confusing sometimes to try to sort out whether a thread was deleted or merely moved to MFC 2. As long as the topics in MFC 2 were managed and moved along, it may be best just to dispense with it, perhaps temporarily as a test to see whether it would be better to keep it.

I couldn't stand the old layout, really. It made everything look all cluttered and hard to understand. As for MFC2 being scrapped... I have no idea. You guys work it out.

I say yes to both. I really like this layout, and I think a few topics in MFC2 (like photoexchange) could be moved here as stickies while the other ones are either moved to SPA or MFClassics.

Hm. I'm quite fond of the EzClassic tabled format ^^ I never really liked the hybrid.... after awhile, I figured it out, but still didn't care for it. The threads can be a bit hard to follow.

I'm all for ditching MFC2 and keeping this format. ^^;

~Shadowed Spirit Sage

I do like the tabled layout. The only reason I'd wanna go back to the hybrid layout is for nostalgic reasons.

As for deleting MF Central 2? ...Dunno. I'd keep it.

1). I wouldn't have noticed that this forum used to be hybrid until you pointed it out, since every other community I visit uses ezclassic or the equivalent thereof for every forum. So I'd just gotten used to it.

I think we should keep it like this. For one, it's nice and consistant and for two, the old one involved too much unnecessary scrolling and really served no purpose for me. Like Terg, I always used to just click the topic name or page number rather than selecting any specific post.

2). But if we scrap MFC2, where will threads go to... DIE!!! *thunderclap and lightning strike*? 🙁

Being serious, with the ezclassic layout, it doesn't really serve much purpose. Aside from regular things like the photoexchange (which can be sticked) and games (which might be better resigned to the SPA) every other thread that goes there virtually never gets posted in, so they might as well be moved to the archives or allowed to fall of the internet. So yeah, if we're keeping ezclassic, I don't see the sense in keeping MFC2 - the only thing that makes it different from an archive are the few regular topics (which can easily be recategorised elsewhere) and its stated function, i.e. to take away big threads from MFC in order to cut down the amount of scrolling people have to do.

1. Yes. The hybrid layout, while allowing many discussions to go on in the same thread, was a good dream, but a bad idea IMO. There were two problems with the hybrid. One, few people took advantage of replying to certain posts and allowing a different discussion to go on due to the reply buttons at the top and bottom. Two, once you go to the actual topic, you can no longer tell which post replied to what like you could in the topic listings, rendering it slightly useless.

2. Maybe have MFC2 be a place for more important/MoFo related topics instead?

1: I prefer ezclassic myself. The problem with the old style was that at first glance, it was a nightmare of bits of topics - I got used to it eventually, but if you look at it from the point of view of a new person, especially one new to forums, it's a bit too overwhelming. This current style is much more user-friendly.

2: I never really look in MFC2, but if scrapping it meant that those huge word association/question/quote etc. games turned up here, I don't think it would be a good idea. The main page would be swamped and you'd never be able to find any discussion topics. Then again, if those topics were put elsewhere (like the SPA or something), which I assume you're alluding to, then I've got no beef with it going.

1. Hybrid, plz. The MoFo grew on the hybrid, had a hybrid on ezboard (which you don't find anywhere at all), and there's no way we're going to this. I like CHOOSING a message to reply to, and knowing where to go to who replied to my messages, or to keep up on a certain topic. Oldbie fo' life, biznatch. Screw you hippies. 😛

2. Screw you hippies again. Frankly, I couldn't care. I wasn't much of a fan of MF2 with or without the large posts. For those too lazy to look for your threads you wanna read, then... well... you're lazy. Broadband or not. So says I!!!

--And with that, he knocked his staff on the ground twice and it was done-- =3

There will be no MFC2 if this forum stays in a non-branching format. I won't have redundant forums (that's why some forums like Floating Island were shut down) and that's final.

Personally, I assumed the only reason this forum wasn't in it's normal format was due to the tally. ;p

Keep this normal format...but personally I don't care. I do think the MFC2 should die. The popular threads can be moved to the SPA...or even here for that matter.

MFC2 is gonna die :'(
Oh well, the large topics aren't even that active anymore.

I'd say to stay with this setup. I never really like the Hybrid because it looked way too cluttered and was sometimes hard to find a particuar topic.

I don't wanna see the MFC2 go, but It won't be needed if we keep this setup.

1. Yeah I really prefer ezclassic to the hybrid. Its a whole lot easier to sort out this way.

2. As far as MFC2 is concerned, I really dont see the difference between that and the SPA. I mean with ezclassic why transport a large topic over to MFC2 where it'll eventually die and sink into the abyss, can it not do the same here? And I think the word games will fit perfectly in the SPA.

So down with MFC2!

1. Does ANYONE here like the hybrid? Cuz I sure don't. I am quite contempt with this, thank you very much.

2. Me no know what that means so...*agrees with everyone else*

Does ANYONE here like the hybrid?

A few oldbies.

The thing is, underneath that topic it says "Large or important threads are moved here".

And I think that a suffix should be on the end of that sentence.

"to die".

Since the Ezhack, we lost a lot of the cool, interesting and hot posts in there anyway.

Hippies! All of ya! Hybrid forever!!! **waves flag in the air, picture of a branch on it**

*Holds up "Go Jin" sign*

Hybrid was what made the forums unique, gave us something a little off the wall from the "same ol'-same ol'" forums. I can go anywhere and see tables. Just because its foreign ta ya doesn't mean its bad.

*marches around with his "Save the Hybrid. Don't let the hacker win." sign*

~Rico

1. Keep it this way.
2. I don't care.

Jin your sig's too big.

The hybrid layout was good when it first started out but when more and more people started coming here it lost it's effectiveness.

- Most would leave the subject the default because they're used to doing that on the rest of the forums.

- Hardly anyone knew how to reply properly. Instead of using the reply link under the name, most would use the reply buttons either on the top or bottom.

This resulted usually in the following:

Plus in addition to that, it takes longer to load and you can't implement the nifty transparent effect we have now....

So... it's just not practical anymore... =/ or at least until EliteBoard rolls around...

It meets the H/W requirements... Oh for the love of Zod, 10kb too big? Leave till I get home Jin, they changed the rules on ya because of little kids abusing every last lax point in our rules. I don't even think I'll need to lower the quality level to get it down 10k.

*continues waving the "Down with hackers, up with Hybrid" sign*

~Rico

This layout is more efficient. If people want to choose a specific post to reply to, nothing's stopping them from clicking "reply" underneath that poster's name. It's not as if anyone cared to pay attention to all the little indents in the post tree anyway. MFC2 has lost all purpose and should be closed.

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It's not as if anyone cared to pay attention to all the little indents in the post tree anyway.

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Thanks for not noticin' me. Not that anyone ever did. *stick house falls apart* [/eeyore]

~Rico

We can't treat Eeyore over the majority. *burns the pile of sticks*

to be honest, i'm neither for or against either version of MFC. the tabled version is easier to mod (less scrolling) but the other made for a more unique forum.

i'm for scrapping MFC2 as the game topics can moved over to the SPA.

Easier to mod? Not really, I look for series of posters that look like trouble. Thats hard to do with the current layout, I have to rely more on snitches because I don't have the time to read every posts in every topic.

*sniffs sadly as Acrio burns a 'bundle of twigs'*

~Rico

well, i've gotten into the habit of reading every topic i can. lord knows how i manage to keep up with things, but generally i can. guess we all have our own individual ways, eh?

Most everyone that came from the original board prefers to old layout to answer the question of who likes it. ;p

There's no way that this layout is easier to mod in comparison. Many times people (and especially lamers) make themselves stand out in a format where you can see every post immediately in terms of needing to take care of them for the more important modding purposes.

I hate the transparent thing anyway (particularly when it screws up my ability to click on page numbers or jump from one forum to another) and wish you guys would stop using it. I don't like the way the transparent stuff looks either. So if that's supposed to be a "pro" for any layout, that's a bad one.

NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU MODS THINK NOW GIVE ME FREE ICING

Personally, I don't see how it matters at all for modding. Then again, I'm not a mod.

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Personally, I don't see how it matters at all for modding. o.o

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1) You can tell every person that has posted within a topic immediately. You don't have to click into a topic and then read through every page.

2) If certain people are constantly replying to a topic, you can usually immediately tell if it's a fight/spam/etc. without having to click into the topic and read every page. Someone who has modded for awhile, knowns the members, etc. can attest to this one.

3) Lamers love to use the "angry" emoticon when they're doing something stupid within a topic. Again, it's immediately obvious without having to read the topic in full.

There are plenty of other things, but I have to leave for dinner and my sis & mom are both yelling at me to hurry up this post so just those 3 will do for now.

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It meets the H/W requirements...

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"The maximum sig dimensions are 325 pixels high and 575 pixels wide (including text)."

Jin's sig image is 332 pixels high, plus there's text making it even bigger.

And sigs are really supposed to be disabled when they're larger than the post they're attached to. It's not usually a big deal but when the sig's that big and the post is only a few lines of text it can become annoying.

Thank you, Red. That's precicely the reasons why I prefer the hybrid. You KNOW what's going on. Granted, I barely mod anymore... hell I don't even know if I still have mod powers (posting on EJ I have none, so don't get confused peeps), but I will act when I see fit to, and hybrid helps a LOT in that manner.

Also, MFC is supposed to be a discussion forum. Like... one of the main discussion boards of SHQ. It was based off of hybrid BECAUSE of that point, was it not? Like Red said, now we have to literally LOOK through a post to see an interest in topic, or as a mod, to see what's going on.

Hell, if it's because people don't type in their own subject, and are too lazy to hit the corresponding reply button, then make into a rule! The rules of this place keep getting stricter and stricter, and dumber if you ask me, for example:

Jin's sig image is 332 pixels high, plus there's text making it even bigger.

OH NOES! I'm about 15 to 20 pixels higher! What's this? 100kb max of bandwidth? Hmm, I have a 30kb gif. I'm sorry, the lack of bandwidth trouble OVER-RIDES your laziness to scroll for an extra second.

[Quick note, I'm not talkin' to VCP directly, just a direct STFU to the idiocy of going strict on that rule. You have to have exceptions and you have to be RATIONAL AND LOGIC about it. We're not robots, people. We're... well... people.]

It can't be that much easier to mod when many topics turn out like this.

Hadn't really considered the ease of moderating when it came to recognizing certain signs...I have to admit that balances out things between the two different formats.

Eliteboard is supposedly promising a combination of both formats... o.o

Can you tell who has posted in a table format immediately, Dr L? NO! The first part of modding is seeing who is/isn't posting. You can't tell that in a table format, Dr L, without reading the topic itself in full which takes up time.

If I see a topic started by certain people with certain people responding, that automatically tips me off in terms of whether it's an "important" read in terms of moderating or if it can wait until later.

The branching format saves plenty of time. That's why I could continue to watch MFC when I lost 'net time but couldn't continue to check others. MFC gets more posts than Knothole, but I'd spend more than double the time in Knothole because I have to waste time checking every topic with new posts. When you know your posters, that's a waste of time. ;p

Is it always perfect? Nope, but it works 95% of the time and usually when it doesn't there are other tip offs (such as an unusually high response rate).

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It can't be that much easier to mod when many topics turn out like this.

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Ask any vet mod. Thats MUCH easier to mod than table. For the reason I pointed out, then Kat pointing out in further detail twice.

OFFTOPIC:

And Jin, if you want I can shave off a few colors on your gifs and see if it lowers it the whole lag inducing 10k.

Personally, it'd save me more scrolling if we banned "My beliefs are right and yours are wrong" fights. I'd rather scroll past Jin's two lines than that mass of crap going on in the intelligent design thread.

~Rico

Here's a crazy idea. I have no idea how difficult this would be to implement, but why not (on EliteBoard, that is, unless someone wants to suggest the idea to ezBoard) make it so that users can choose which layout they prefer and that's what layout they see when they load the forum page? Everybody wins (except Vec who has to go to all the trouble of writing it )!

It won't solve the debate here, but it's a potential idea for EliteBoard at least.

You know, even if the mods and admins are all for the hybrid layout... it looks as though the vast majority of the users prefer the tabled one. So, it's really up to you guys. You can make it so it's easier for you, and chances are, most, if not all of us, will understand. Or, you can appeal to us and make us happy.

lol

Uh, I was pretty sure that was planned from the beginning. I could be wrong....I just assumed, because it was obvious prople didn't like hybrid.

No way it's happening on ezboard tho. Call me hard on ezboard if you wish, but right now I regard them as completely incompetent.

Also, I loathe hybrid, but if it makes for easier modding, I'm willing to endure it. Can't promise I'll post 'properly' on it tho.

TR, That may be... but IMO, I think that a no longer need for MFC2 (one forum less to mod) and faster loading times for MFC should make up for it. You wouldn't have MFC2 to mod so it may come out about the same in terms of modding time for the forum. o.o

I dunno, I never liked the idea of MFC2 to begin with. I was more than anything pursuaded, period. 😛

And Jin, if you want I can shave off a few colors on your gifs and see if it lowers it the whole lag inducing 10k.

XD No thanks. Me likes it the way it is. =3 Anymore colors gone btw and it'll look like crap. >.>

Personally, it'd save me more scrolling if we banned "My beliefs are right and yours are wrong" fights. I'd rather scroll past Jin's two lines than that mass of crap going on in the intelligent design thread.

AMEN! wait... OMG SOMEONE ON MY SIDE!!! *pounces Rico* YOU ROCK! O_O *gets off, dusts self off, jigs*

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TR, That may be... but IMO, I think that a no longer need for MFC2 (one forum less to mod) and faster loading times for MFC should make up for it. You wouldn't have MFC2 to mod so it may come out about the same in terms of modding time for the forum. o.o

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MFC doesn't load any faster for me in a table layout versus branching. I spend 2+ minutes waiting for forums to load on bad days and about 30 seconds on good days. My connection (as well as the images being used at the time) determines my loading times, not the layout. It takes the basic same amount of time and the fact that I don't have to click into the topics saves more time than anything else. Nothing is faster than that.

I can spend 2 minutes or less modding MFC in a branching format. I spend 10-15 minutes when I have to mod any other forum on this board. These are on quiet days. Obviously if I have to actually post that I'll spend more time. Particularly since MFC2 is a quiet forum in terms of moderating (meaning it can be ignored and only needs to be checked a couple times a week) due to the topics that end up in there, I rather have it and branching here than have a table here. Reducing quiet forums or forums I mainly ignore doesn't do anything for my load. Usually if someone is spamming MFC2 it's obvious because the last 5 newest members to the board have links to their first post on the board, which makes it easy to track.

I've been modding this board for a long time, I have plenty tricks I use to make my job simpler though the best ones deal with the hybrid layout because you can tell so much versus a table. ;p

P.S. The transparent junk that's been used on buttons and stuff add to my loading time much more than branching ever has.

Don't get too gushy Jin, I just call 'em like I see 'em.

And what TR said, minus the bandwidth stuff. Unless the text or pics made the pages like 3 megs in size I'd never notice. If something makes THIS connection lag, its REALLY bad.

Ah, ok. Just curious. Would you mind sharing some of your tricks of the trade sometime? 😛

I've had no problems with the transparency stuff since but I do recall the branched format timing out on me before. Usually when EZ is being slow. Anyhow... All in all.. I actually support either format. I was just thinking in terms of effective use instead of modding overall.

That transparency is killer at times. Even on high-end PC's it just makes the message board chug. Add to that the still-background and that doesn't help things, either.

Its all in what you look for. Tabled is easier on the eyes and less confusing, but Hybrid is more versatile and makes watchdogging easier.

Kinda like when I got down to my last two picks on what car I was going to buy. I was between a car that looked more expensive than it was, very sporty and stuff. And a small SUV that had better manuverability and MUCH better visibility but didn't look near as good. In the end utility overroad pretty for me. I think I would have been happy with either though.

Suggestions:

IF we stay in the table format, may I suggest using MC2 as a technological forum. (We might have to change the description of the forums if we go about this route.) It will have a new purpose (and we can change the name as well).

IF we return to the hybrid, we can keep using MC1 as a help forum.