I'm not incredibly against hunting. I mean, if I had a choice myself, I would only hunt for food and never for fun. That is why I'm not a vegetarian. Death is a part of nature. Lions kill antelopes for food, birds kill worms, spiders kill flies. Cats kill birds and mice for sport. They bring the dead bodies up to the door and discard them as trophies. I'm sure cat owners are aware of this. They have food well provided, but they still enjoy the thrill of the chase.
Humans are not as simplistic, and can provide morals and make choices. If you want to choose not to eat meat, or not to hunt, that is an option, and that's perfectly okay. But I don't think there should be this incredle stigma attached to eating meat and hunting. If a chicken isn't going to die by human hands, a weasel will come along and kill it instead. It's a tad naive to think that everything should be fair and lovely in nature. Animals will kill and be killed. That is a fact of life.
I don't like the idea of hunting for sport. It seems senseless to me, but I don't oppose anyone who does it, minus the hunting of endangered species.
My grandfather owns his own hunting buisiness in the northwest territories, specializing in muskox, bears and deer, so I suppose I'm desensitized to the idea of hunting. People who grow up in cities don't have the experience of the killing process, seeing animals on TV and packaged meat. Their only experience with animals are cats and dogs, and thus gain a sense that all animals are friends. We know from shark, bear and lion attacks that animals are not all innocent, loving friends.
I do agree that animal torture is wrong. Not wanting to eat meat, or not wanting to hunt is fine as well. But making it into something incredibly dramatic is unrealistic. Nature is cruel and barabaric. Animals live their lives in it, and realise that. Their lives are just as in danger from humans as nature itself. Just because we're the majority living here, we're the majority cause. Human death is tragic and precious, not only because we are sympathetic towards our own species, but because of our nature, we have developed ways to prevent death from nature. In rustic times death was common. Women would very often die from childbirth, diseases would cut lives short, people were completly defeneseless against sickness and natural disasters. Death was easy and common. Death was not as dramatized and unexpected. That is the rustic, natural way of things, as animals have lived in it for millions of years.
Man, I'm going off topic, but to summarise:Hunting is not so good, but you shouldn't feel so strong about it, cause it's just the way life is.

You've all expressed your views on hunting for sport and hunting for food. What about hunting for sport AND food? What do you think of that?

Oh, and Crystal...

For the most part, I think it's sentiance that causes most problems. As a sentient race, humans believe themselves to be 'better' in some way to other animals

Because we are better than animals; we possess rational intelligence, moral notions, and communication with the hereafter. True, sentience does cause problems, but sentience can also solve them.

Some things NEED to be killed, to allow everything else to live on in better conditions.

Why do you suppose they need to be killed? Surely you aren't forgetting about the balance of nature, are you?

Unfortunately, the only way to stop this from happening is to remove the people who do so

THere's also reformation. What about that possibility?

About your comment on instinct: It is true that humans have some instinct, but we are rational beings; the rational side is dominant over the instinctual/emotional side.

I hope my comments have proven fruitful.

'Real' men HAVE to hunt. They obviously need to make up from lack of something else if they feel the need to pick up a boomstick and go out into the woods and PLAY GOD.

I hunt... I walk around the Oklahoma fields with my 12 guage remmy and hunt. Man, you'd think the prey would be smarter than that... Those bright orange vests stick out like sore thumbs. And half the time I'm not sure if they drooled all over themselves BEFORE or after I shot them... o.o

What? If they can hurt defenseless animals I can hurt them. At least THEY can shoot back, not that they get the chance to... but they could. >.>

Rico's Final Thought: If they can play god, so can I. And uh... yeah... Don't mess with the foxes! o.-

~Rico

Anti-hunter: Hello. Please state your species.

Otter: I'm an otter.

Anti-hunter: Okay, and what is it that you do?

Otter: I swim around and look cute for the people with cameras.

Anti-hunter: Awwwww. You can go. Next!

Cow: Moo.

Anti-hunter: And a hearty moo to you too, sir. Please state your species.

Cow: I'm a cow.

Anti-hunter: And what is it that you do?

Cow: I eat grass and fart. A lot.

Anti-hunter: Get in the grinder.

Cow: What? I'm a living being you know!

Anti-hunter: No, you're a f**king hamburger! I said get in the grinder! NEXT! Please state your species.

Fox: I'm a fox.

Anti-hunter: Awwwwwwww.

Curtain falls, end skit.

..now.. just what exactly does this "skit" means?

...because it didn't really make sense to me.. since "skit" happens to be swedish for the vulgar name for the things you drop out of your rear when at a toilet. (Hard to explain that word through a profanity filter >_<)

And it's completely socially unacceptable and will be thrown out before it's halfway done being said.

The solution?

Make the hunters hunt each other.

Yep, yeu want to proove that yeu can hunt a deadly target, that's dangerous for yeu as well, that yeu outsmarted, and then survived the encounter, and want a trophy to proove that, then why the hades are yeu going around shooting stuff that can't shoot back? Take those that think this's such a good idea and let them shoot at each other, it's more 'natural' for they'll be hunting for survival now, and it'll spare everything else from the pointless carnage.

Now I don't mind killing things as such. As long as it won't harm the population, it's not done for greed (ie: kill 10 wolves because yeu lost a sheep and are scarred of loosing more), or just for fun (shoot it and leave it), and as long as yeu use everything that's been left behind, no problem.

Like... having livestock farms... well... we're omnivores, but we still *need* meat. Yeu can claim nuts and vegitable proteins will be enough, but it's not really. Ever notice how there's only like 2-3 vegitarians in the olympics and how they *NEVER* do good? It's because the proteins needed to do well are all in the meat. Veggies can give yeu some, but it's a *MUCH* lower grade and isn't as good, but takes up more space and weight.

Anyways, the point's that killing for food in a farm, which'll control the amount of lives there is... and won't alter the damage to the environment (overgrazing) or overkilling (killing off *all* the cows/whatever's), it's acceptable.

We have to kill to survive. Even if it's just plants. I realise that and can deal with it. But pointless killing, shooting just for the fun of it, simply isn't right. Life is precious, in *ALL* things, NOT just humans. Taking only what's needed is proper... and abusing the ability to take lives is simply wrong. Yeu don't see wolves killing the entire flock of sheep and then leaving them to rot... yeu see them take one or two for the pack to live off of for a few weeks and then they leave the rest alone, and they usually only take the weakest, oldest, or youngest ones, meaning that the strongest will survive to breed more strong ones.

As such, that's okei. I can live with that fact of life. Life has to be taken to be given. Prey has to be killed for the predator to survive. There's alot more prey than predators though, so it's no problem.

However... humans're the ones that abuse that right to kill, with overfishing, overhunting, poaching, "defence" (they saw a bear a half a mile away so shot it because they were scared. Not good enough of a reason. Neither is killing an entire pack of wolves because they were hungry and ate your sheep, deal with it, yeu're not alone in the world and yeu have to learn to share), and because they're the only ones that do this, as far as I'm concerned, humans are *less* evolved than the other species because we're obviousally too stupid to understand the balance that has to be kept. Even these supposedally "stupid" animals are able to comprehend the concept of taking only what yeu need. If they didn't, they'd continue to hunt long after they were full, but they don't. They only take as much as neccesary. I have no doubt that a wolf pack could very well clean out the entire sheep population if noone interveined, but they won't. They'll just take as much as needed and let the others survive to breed more food. It's their own version of a farm because that's basically all we do except that we go through the trouble of feeding the livestock ourselves.

Anyways...

Personally, I don't care a ton for guns. They've only caused problems.

There's no more 'honour' of battle or anything, and any idiot with a full-automatic gun can take out the most highly trained knight to live with no problems at all. Skill's still important to a point, but when yeu can kill someone before yeu're even close enough to see their face... I think that's a problem.

They made wars so many times more horrible... at one time wars were fought with armies of a thousand men, and that was a big army. When Neopolian created his insanely huge army of around 540,000 men women and children (took their families along even) to invade Russia, he had created the largest army in history.

A mere few hundred years later, however, The Great War was fought (wwI) with several million. A decade after that the numbers of casualties over doubled.

Since the concept of long-ranged attacks came into being (starting with the longbow which started all the problems), wars have gotten so many times worse than they were before. It's now possible to wipe out several million people with a single shot of a bomb.

Yeu better pray that those who control the big guns don't decide to go "hunting" humans, because it'd be about as pitiful as it is now. People won't be able to shoot back, they'll only be able to run. And even that won't be much good. Your skull can go on a wall mount and a little plaque under it can mention that on May 1st, this person, along with 20,000,000 others were killed by the greatest hunter of all who used but a single shot to wipe out Mexico city or something.

That's what hunting is, so deal with it.

I really believe that if that's how yeu want to view things as 'honourable', then yeu should fight yourselves, and maybe then it would be. Sure, we can go back to bloodsports. Just drop two guys into an arena with swords and sheilds and watch them kill each other. Great games. Okei hunters, we're going back to gladatorial times, have fun.

Bah.

Anyways, I'm getting worked up (a bit) over this so I'm just going to stop here. (that and I'm missing my lunch)

Bai for now.

*Poofs*

Skit, sketch, scene, performance, it's all the same meaning.

Quote:

---

Yeu can claim nuts and vegitable proteins will be enough, but it's not really. Ever notice how there's only like 2-3 vegitarians in the olympics and how they *NEVER* do good

---

Ever notice that vegetarians are a minority?

1) Nice. CS Player. How do you like 1.4? I hate it. We need to play sometime.

2) Aren't humans one of the only (if not the only) species that destroys ITSELF? Don't we destroy a hella lot more of other species? What makes us so great, we can talk? 😛

3) I was going to save this for another post, but I wanna say it now - who here is a vegetarian? I mean you prolly say "hunting is bad" (although most seem to be intelligent and say "hunting for sport is bad"), but I mean, I'm vegetarian (at least tryin' to be as much as I can) and rarely eat meat... so yah. Jus' wonderin' there.

4) Im tired.

To tell you the truth, I'd love to try hunting, just once, to see what it was like. Because of our strict (and yet very, very sensible) gun laws, it's not really legal to get a handgun and go blasting away at anything that moves in the field behind your house (not that I'm suggesting that's what happens in the US, I'm just making a point). Even our rifle and gun clubs are very strict, some not even letting you take home your weapon.
I'd quite like to shoot off a few rounds in a target range in the US, then maybe go hunting after, just to see if "the thrill of the hunt" is a real thing.

It has often been asked why the UK`s big, brave, butch hunters don`t go off and control something that`s REALLY dangerous to both livestock and humans - like the feral big cats known to be living in rural areas.

For some reason, there`s never been a reply...

That would be.. interesting. I think though, that hunters don't do it because they like blood and gore. If they wanted to do that, hunters could do things like torture cats, yet most of them don't. It's just the thrill of the chase they like. I suppose an equally viable alternative is shooting targets or clay pigeons, or that rather hilarious looking Dear Hunting video game. So it really wouldn't solve anything to have hunters kill each other, because that *would* require cruelty and a taste for blood.

Letting them hunt each other is a terrible idea. You'd be training people to be killers, and I imagine the potential for cruelty would be much higher. I do also conider it a bigger deal to kill a human than an animal. The only upside to that is that it would be voluntary.

A much better solution is paintball. All the thrill of the chase is there, the targets are intelligent and armed, and noone gets hurt. Better than sport hunting all around.

Ditto drag hunting.

But hunters seem to object to both. It seems that the prey`s only fun if it`s intelligent enough to be unpredictable but not intelligent enough to actually play them at their own game.

True. I think a lot of it actually has to do with power, and wanting to conquer something that can't fight back.

There's a species of pig that was introduced into California by hunters 100 years ago. It was supposed to be hunted, and then it became feral. Now, noone wants to hunt it. 😛 It's actually quite dangerous and an environmental pest.

I am vegetarian and so is Vlad.

I love paintballing!! Costs a load tho, one morning cost me about 70, although I was going MENTAL with the bullets.

However, when I was the guy who had to get past the other team for our team to win (think of Capture the flag, and I was the flag-holder) I tripped, concussed myself on my visor (and the floor obviously) slashed my index finger on the trigger and fell on it at the same time. That basically = 1 broken, swollen finger ripped to shreds that's still sore to this day. That wasn't so cool. But hey, we won the game!!

As for a substitue for hunting, hmm,I've been paintballing and still wouldn't mind trying hunting so....

I can't understand vegetarianism. It's actually BAD for you, as every diet needs at least some fat, in small amounts granted but still.

Whoa whoa... Back up Castor. Let me show you something.

This is an apple.... This is an orange.... they are NOT the same.

The world is this way for a reason. Humans need to eat, and they need a balance of greens and meat to survive. If you feel sorry for every cow, pig, tree, and potatoe then you starve. My post was NOT in any way directed at those things. I don't see the reason in hunting... EVEN if you eat the animal you kill. We HAVE stores for a reason.

Those animals aren't ones that were born in the wild. They would even be here if it wasn't for the people raising them for food. If you're saying its wrong to kill ANYTHING for food then you might as well blame the foxes for eating rabbits. And the hippies for killing plants.

~Rico

to be serious, the only hunting i would do is for food. Its the only logical reason to hunt. of course, you might want to hunt down an extrememly evil person if they subjected you to inferior jobs and constantly abused you mentally and probably physically.

but thats my opinion.

Sport hunting is DISGUSTING. How could anyone find killing an innocent animal entertaining?

I live in Idaho... a place were I can't even go hiking on my own property without fear of my pets of even MYSELF being shot by some stupid hunter. I should know...

I've heard stories from people, saying that their kid was almost shot while playing in a bush or something. These hunters just shoot at anything that moves, without even checking what it is first. Sometimes they kill an animal that they don't want, so they just leave it there.

Some stupid jerk of a "sport" hunter got tierd of waiting for some hapless deer to walk by and blew away my dogs away instead. These were FAMILY pets, and could be clearly distinguished that way.

Sometimes, when these jerks are hunting for deer or elk... they're not even looking for meat. They take the heads and nothing else. Or they saw off pieces of the animal and leave it laying around (For my two remaining dogs to find, no less... it's gross, trust me.). Sometimes, they don't even KILL the animal when they shoot it... maybe they hit it in the leg or something... so the animal walks around for days, slowing bleeding to death, being left behind by it's heard because it can't keep up.

Then there's poachers. People who hunt outside the season. They kill pregnant mother elk and deer. Or babies. Basically, they can't kill a good animal... so they hunt the helpless ones. For sport.

And I am not bluffing here. I've seen it with my own eyes.

Hunting for food, of course, is a totally differant thing. Or hunting for protection... I've heard stories of people killing bears that don't bother me nearly as much. Some types of bears are shy, and won't come near you unless you threaten their cub... others just kill for the fun of it. Now, two of those live on my property... One time, my little brothers and I were gaurding a bonfire in the middle of a forest (In a clearing, though... duh), and one of them was looking strait at us. 20 ft. away, at max... we think the only thing protecting us was the fire. Well, I wouldn't hesitate to kill one of those bears... I sound like a jerk when I say this, but... better it than me. =

Woo... OK, rant ended. Geeze, that was a long one.... *hops off soapbox, scurries back to her dark, desolate corner*

EDIT: That was... strange... it usually adds my reply at the bottom, not in the middle... weird. I hate it when ezboard does this to me....

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