Hello fellow Sonic fans, I have come here to fix a great deal of wrongs that plague our favorite hedgehog's series. Now if you think this is just another save Sonic thread, you are wrong. Unlike the others, I plan to take every suggestion seriously, so that when I do become
a game designer(either for Sega(unlikely) or in my own company(more likely)) I have a good set of plans ready to go. Now this does not mean I am here to steal ideas for Sonic games, far from it, I have a lot of good ideas I just need you, the fans, to help me get some
things set in stone. Every week I will come with a question, a game idea, or just a random plan in a new thread to help get the series back on track. You can help by posting how you feel on the subject or how it can be improved. I have no time for one liner posts and downers
who feel that some of my pitches are well, out of the box. Just remember that everyone thought both Sonic and Megaman would never sell, and look at what happened.
Ok now that formalities and rules are out of the way this weeks subject: I will agree with everyone here that Sonic needs to return to his roots. Sonic has been continually screwed over from the most recent title "Sonic Unleashed" to about the time Sonic Xtreme was destroyed and never made playable. So we need an update, a "remastered" version of Sonic's 1-3&K, or maybe 1,2, then Sonic CD not certain yet.
So how do we do this? Let's start with the basics, should we focus on making the most beautiful and classic 2-D game, should we go the route of Super Paper Mario and have Sonic constantly switching between 2-D and 3-D(without the gay health loss of course), or should we just sit down and do what everyone feels is impossible and make a 3-D engine that actually works? I am looking not just for what you prefer but why it is the best for Sonic, give me any reason!
2 things I thought I'd mention. First, your 2 posts could have been combined into 1 and your idea of making a new topic every week seems like wasted space, when you could easily post them all in this topic.
Apologies for the stock cynacism. But I heavily doubt you'll be doing anything with the ideas put forth in this thread. If you intend to pitch a game or make one you're not the first to come in and announce such a thing and I heavily doubt you will be the last.
But, you know, good luck. And show us progress if you make any.
As for your blanket assumptions. Please remember that Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 exist and were good and that S3&K was not the last good game in the series, that Battle, Advance/Rush have been great and some even enjoyed Chronicles.
The only consistant failure in the series is the annual "MAIN" title, which has been decreasing in quality for 5 or so years.
The answer to solving this is in the problem. "ANNUAL MAIN TITLE" No one releases an amazing game in a single year. For heavens sake, Sega. Slow the hell down, take a good 3 years to get it right and make a classic. Worked in the old days. It can work again now.
Wow, I can't believe the response! I know I didn't explain myself as well as I could have, but this is more than I expected! Thank you Rico for reminding me of what everyone has told me again and again about my ideas, I thought it was because I was surrounded by Mario fans, but apperantly I'm not free from it here either. And Swanson, I'm sorry that the only reason you posted in here is to tell me all my bad ideas on how to post in a forum, excuse me for not wanting to create a wall of text! And Craig, thank you for being the only one to somewhat answer my original question. And yes I know all those games are great, I just wanted emphasis on how hard Sonic has been destroyed by Sega. You know, I came on here thinking that true fans could finally work together and make a game we could all be proud of. But once again I am faced with bitter, uncaring people who love nothing more than to just keep buying the crap Sega peddles out and do nothing to fix the problem other than complain. I did not ask for anyone to give me career advice, all I asked was what would you like to see in a Sonic game, 2-D or 3-D, and no one on here can do that? Please after reading this try to come up with better posts than this. Because, and here's a huge spoiler no one wants to believe,
A Japanese franchise is in the hands of fans in English speaking parts of the world? Whaaaaaat?
The "true fans" are actually a minority and typically not the audience Sega are looking for anyway. That privlidge belongs to the age group we belonged in when we, ourselves, enjoyed the game (5-13), not to say that making games that us late teens, young adults and the occassional 30 something can enjoy is a bad thing, infact it's a wonderful thing. But you're thinking that Sega is attempting to create timeless classics, which is a bad assumption to make.
Their intent is to make money. Which, given the sales of even Sonic 2006 (supposedly the worst in the franchise) is what they are doing. Sure, they could make more, but if the cost of developing a game for 2/3 years is more than making a quick cash in, then Sammy (and Sega by extention) will take that route...
I mean, as long as Sonic is a franchised brand name, they will make a profit. Given how much of a minority "True Fans" are, and how much of a marketable name Sonic is to people who don't surf gaming portions of the internet (suprisingly that is a negligable number, statistically), the fact is, quality of the games will not majorly effect Sega's wallets, excepting of course the idea of re-releases, though with all the crap quality games being released on every console at once, even that is not an issue.
So, long story short. Your mission is failed in it's entire concept.
But once again I am faced with bitter, uncaring people who love nothing more than to just keep buying the crap Sega peddles out and do nothing to fix the problem other than complain.
Actually, while I can't speak for everyone, a lot of us don't buy all the crap! I certainly don't. But then again I'm not a Sonic fan anymore. I do however have ideas on what could work, so~
To actually answer your question - I'd like a 3D game with 2D gameplay, except perhaps boss levels/fights. And no QTEs please. I dispise those. They break up the gameplay too much - i often find myself startled when they come up and end up running out of time. But then again I might just be a really bad gamer and it might not bother anyone else. Have it sort of a cross between the handheld games like Rush for the fluidity and the sidescrolling Sonic sections of Unleashed graphics-wise. Sonic's always worked best with 2D gameplay so~
Also to be really picky - no flying dog things, no guns/werehogs/vehicles/swords/genies, and a limited number of the cast. More could be unlockable for any multiplayer modes only. I'm afraid to say Shadow would have to be in there, even as an unlockable character, as he is one of the current target demographic's favourites. I won't be bothered if he wasn't though. Avoid new characters. Keep things simple and fun like the oldies. I know the current audience is different and we'll need some form of explained story and dialogue (which my friend is still in distress about) but keep the story fairly simple. Eggman wants to do something bad and Sonic (and co too, since everything has to show the power of teamwork these days =/ ) has to race to get there before he does it. Some bosses on the way. Side missions and quests and such could be unlocked but these shouldn't be nessessary to play through. The main goal is to get through the levels. Levels should have multiple pathways, some faster, some with more goodies. The main character for the solo story should be Sonic, and preferably only Sonic. Other characters could make an appearance every now and then but they shouldn't take up much of the gameplay. If anything it could be like with s3&k where Tails can pick Sonic up at certain areas for a limited time, but even then I'd rather it was just Sonic. I am not a fan of hub worlds either but i think that one is personal opinion alone.
Not so much a remake, but a return to the ideas the first few games had. I don't even want to contimplate a remake of the first games because many sonic fans regard them as some kind of holy grail and would be hostile to the idea alone.
I would have said something along the lines of Rush style gameplay with Unleashed graphics myself, but have yet to play Unleashed. To clue the new guy in, Sonic Rush is my favorite game in the franchise, despite it being exceptionally short and each level containing about 25% on the rails waiting parts, except for some minor exceptions.
Only reason I didn't voice this is that I am a clear minority in my adoration for Sonic Rush and speak only for myself, when I state how freaking amazing it is.
And Swanson, I'm sorry that the only reason you posted in here is to tell me all my bad ideas on how to post in a forum, excuse me for not wanting to create a wall of text!
Apparently you misread what I said, I wasn't telling you how to write better I was telling you some of the rules you plan on breaking.
As for your blanket assumptions. Please remember that Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 exist and were good
To some.
and that S3&K was not the last good game in the series,
Indeed, Sonic 3D Blast is chronically underrated.
Hello fellow Sonic fans, I have come here to fix a great deal of wrongs that plague our favorite hedgehog's series. Now if you think this is just another save Sonic thread, you are wrong. Unlike the others, I plan to take every suggestion seriously, so that when I do become
a game designer(either for Sega(unlikely) or in my own company(more likely)) I have a good set of plans ready to go. Now this does not mean I am here to steal ideas for Sonic games, far from it, I have a lot of good ideas I just need you, the fans, to help me get some
things set in stone. Every week I will come with a question, a game idea, or just a random plan in a new thread to help get the series back on track. You can help by posting how you feel on the subject or how it can be improved. I have no time for one liner posts and downers
who feel that some of my pitches are well, out of the box. Just remember that everyone thought both Sonic and Megaman would never sell, and look at what happened.
Hmm? How do you plan on working for Sega or for some other company that would happen to be developing Sonic games? And how would you get your specific ideas and plans pushed into the games once there? What makes you think the change-the-company-from-the-inside approach will be effective?
I want Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream and Gemerl. That's "it". (<__<) I go LOL @ too many characters. Forcing yourself to play the parts you don't want to is weird. 
Those six characters could be sooo different enough if they tried. Cream should pick up and throw things with her ears. Amy totally needs rollerskates and Gemerl can shoot things. The levels for the characters who aren't as fast as Sonic shouldn't be like Sonic's levels. Tails' needs to fly, Knuckles needs to climb etc
2D is best. So are pretty colorful levels. Gemerl should be the only robot aside from the bad ones. EVER (again)
Thanks guys, these are the responses I'm looking for! Now I understand your skepticisms on my plan, it is a true rareity when someone fights big buisness/government to fix an injustice, but I'm the kind of guy whose got a serious case of Stickittotheman-Neosis and doesn't just stand back and take the crap. Now Craig, unless you didn't already know, of course every game company would rather make a quick buck on crap than use their time to make something work, but the companies that do go the extra mile are more profitable.Heck Valve has released less than HALF as many games as Sonic and look at whose more in the black! Now I'm not saying that they should be as strict as 3D Realms(It has been more than 10 years and we don't have a single DEMO of DNF!!!), but they need to improve and I know they won't. So that is why I'd rather go through the hassel of just buying him from them than just going to Sega, working until I'm 60, and then finally getting a meeting to make a game that will eventually be cancelled or rejected. Anyways, guys I do promise you this, now that Knux. has a (hopefully) love interest that is his own species, I would never EVER EVER EVER make another Sonic character to fill another plot hole, or give useless Navi-like advice. And Trudi, I'm sorry to say but you had better get used to the idea of Sonic the Swordsman, because flash movies have been made, an official game is being made, and I have a masterpiece that needs the swordfighting. So now all I have to do is rename this so that all my topics can be posted here... 
For that matter, has 3D Realms even released any games in the last ten years?
Personally I think the plan to "save Sonic" is kind of pointless.
Cuz think about it.... Between the Genesis and Game Gear, Sonic has been in 24 games (if my count is correct), most of them the 2D sidescrollers everyone loves. In that amount of games, Sonic has pretty much done everything it can as a series.
So how do you revitalize it? Well you give it a major shift, like changing it to 3D. Unfortunately 3D has proven itself to not really work well with Sonic--at least not in the hands of Sonic Team.
There are two answers, then: Fix the 3D, or go back to 2D.
Going back to 2D is the wrong answer, because the minute you do that you've doomed the series to perpetual stagnancy. You end up with a Mega Man syndrome where every game is little more than an expansion pack for the last game--In fact I remember there being complaints that the 2D games had become exactly that.
Sure, you could add new elements, such as playing as other characters with different playstyles, but... is this really welcome? I personally don't like this aspect of any of the 3D games. I mean, as characters I like Amy, Knuckles, Shadow and even Big the Cat, but when I have to play as them they become unbearable. The point is, there is only so far you can alter the game until it goes from being "A Sonic game" to being "A game that happens to have Sonic in it."
So the better answer IMO is to fix the 3D. That entails the following:
1. Fix the camera. This is the main reason Sonic in 3D hasn't been the best experience ever--its always going off, getting behind things, or showing you things from the worst possible angle. A good idea would be to do like Mega Man Legends where the camera is always right behind the avatar (or as close to as possible). If any object comes between cam and character, then that object should become transparent as to not effect your view. The camera should be able to fly through walls and objects in case you're in a narrow area and need to look around. Above all make sure it can follow Sonic at top speeds.
2. There should only be one goal in every non-boss level: Find the exit. If you ever once have a level where you have to do anything else, whether it be hunting emerald shards or solving puzzles, then you are designing for the wrong series. In Boss levels, the goal should be to beat the boss and nothing else.
3. Speed is a privilege, not a right. Sonic's stories in the 3D games have rightly been described as "simply holding forward and watching him run," and while that's short-term visceral excitement it becomes dull in the long term (though Sonic's levels are often far more fun than everyone else's). It should take a considerable (but not superhuman) amount of skill and experience until the player is able to speed through the stages like the blue blur actually would.
4. I'm tempted to say "there should not be a single bottomless pit anywhere in the game," but I'm not entirely sure because there are times when bottomless pits make sense (the Egg Carrier for example). So, I guess, use them when they make sense. Ancient temples should not have bottomless pits (how would the ancient tribes dig them out?) but floating fortresses should.
Some other suggestions, most of these from personal preference:
5. The only playable characters should be Sonic and Tails and MAYBE Knuckles (or Shadow if you're a fan of him). Each should have similar play except for one or two unique gimmicks, and each should go through the exact same story and levels--the only difference would be who the hero is. And once more the levels' only goal should be "get to the exit" (or "Beat the boss").
6. There should never, EVER be a time in-level where you don't have control of the character (however, cutscenes are okay).
7. Bosses should rarely have a "weak point," and instead should be vulnerable at all times, but might require you to wait until they're in range or find a way to get close to them.
8. There should be NO PUZZLES. Nobody plays Sonic games to solve puzzles. Even relatively simple stuff like "put the stone on the platform" is entirely in the wrong game. As a matter of fact if you have a part where Sonic has to lift or carry ANYTHING, you're doing something wrong.
9. Super Sonic/Tails/Knuckles should not be a story event, but something available to everyone who finds the chaos Emeralds. I'm not sure if the classic Special Stages or the GG-style "emeralds hidden in levels" mechanic would be better, so I'll let you call that one. The closest thing to a story event the games should get is maybe unlocking a new level or final boss if you have all seven emeralds.
10. I don't mind if you acknowledge Shadow, Amy, Big, Cream or most of the half-million characters that have been introduced in the more recent games. I personally like most of the extended cast. But... the Chao don't exist. Please, whatever story/continuity/retcons you go with, please forget the Chao. I'd rather have Mannix and Sophia than the Chao.
11. His name is Robotnik, not Eggman. No, I'm not even gonna argue about canon or official statements or whether Japan's or America's are the "true" story, Robotnik is simply a better name than Eggman, and that's all the justification I need.
That's all I have for right now.
But... the Chao don't exist. Please, whatever story/continuity/retcons you go with, please forget the Chao. I'd rather have Mannix and Sophia than the Chao.
!!!!
Why the hate? 
10. I don't mind if you acknowledge Shadow, Amy, Big, Cream or most of the half-million characters that have been introduced in the more recent games. I personally like most of the extended cast. But... the Chao don't exist. Please, whatever story/continuity/retcons you go with, please forget the Chao. I'd rather have Mannix and Sophia than the Chao.
You have lost my respect, sir.
Got to concur. But you already made it clear you dislike SA1/2 which are mostly well recieved as far as my perceptions have seen over my 9 year stint at this forum.
I really adore the Chao mini-game and find it a damn shame that they never made a solo Chao game for the DS.
But rather than argue your points, and to add, Prototeen's comments on the swords, I'll simply say this.
In a short number of posts, you've proven why the fans can't and WONT save the franchise. No two people want the same thing. Shadow is popular, despite what I myself want to believe. They gave him his own game, I could claim he's a stupid annoying angst hog, but he's still popular. Emerl will never be a loved and adored character in the franchise, no matter how adamant I am that he should be.
Fact is, we all want vastly different things and when we can't even agree wether we'd prefer the games 2d or 3d (I'd personally prefer on the rails 3d, Secret Rings was good but the controls sucked and Unleashed has the right idea) then there will be no uprising.
Threads like this are kind of pointless because I believe that most Sonic Team really don't give a crap about this franchise except to recieve a paycheck let alone listening to the wishes of any hopeful Sonic fan outside of the series main demographic(everyone over the age of 12).
Who cares about Sonic Team? I'm just hoping somebody makes a good fan game that utilizes some of the expressed ideas. There have been promising starts in the past.
I only hate the Chao when they've got a tangible plot presence, like in SA1. All the other new characters vaguely fit my idea of the Sonic mythos, and that they're the only anthropomorphic animals on a mostly-human planet fits if I make up a personal canon that incorperates the beginning of Sonic X... but the Chao just seem so out of place. And also I'm rejecting any notion that they have any connection whatsoever with the Chaos Emeralds.
There is no connection between Chao and the emeralds. Having the Chao garden in the Master Emerald shrine was a plot device to give the echidnas a reason to antagonize their peaceful guardian, Chaos.
And I assume Chaos himself has no major connection to the emeralds, spare being stored in the Master and being Dragonball Z homage #152 by absorbing them to attain "Perfect Form".
YAY FANGAMES!! *loses clothes in the uproar* 
*puts socks back on to approach Craig comfortably* I appreciate your Emerl love.
I like the Chao, some do not. I could live with the Chao being retconned out of existence within the Sonic 'canon', but I do wish that they would produce a Chao raising game for the DS, even if it was nothing but a direct port of the original Chao engine using downgraded versions of the original 3-d models.
As for other points of discussion: I loved Shadow in SA2 and Sonic Battle, but I hate what they have done with the character elsewhere. I loved Emerl in Sonic Battle, and I hope they never cheapen his death.
We basically have Emerl coz at the end of Advance 3 that looks-exactly-like-Emerl-robot was totally all hanging out with Cream <__< And Tails put his hands inside of the robot. With tools.
Well I must say this is more like what I wanted. Sorry I've been late, but it's time I set this in full motion. I want to thank you 8Bit, you make very intellegent responses, although I disagree with your chao dislike. I have decide to continue with this project and will now open a main thread where all my topics will be posted. You are free to continue to post here, but it would be wise to take your thoughts over to the main thread. Thanks to everyone, it was a rough start, but we cannot give up hope, we WILL fix this together
. And to all the nay sayers, I give you this in my final post on this thread, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo-5hmFnxwo
I don't smoke, but I'm about to start. 
