How would you like the level ups to be in future games would you want them in Adventure fields, action stages, power cores, or a combination of all three? Should the level ups be items or should they just be powers cores? Myself, I want item level ups not power cores unless the power cores would go above level three and last thoughout the game or at least Zones instead of losing them when you die or pass an Act like in Sonic Heroes. Although, it wouldn't be bad if power cores could power up the item level ups. What y'all think?
i don't like the power ups at all, sonic was suppose to be fun and fast. the whole getting power ups and special items thing is too much strategy and thinking.
and team blast is too cartoonish, anyway.
I like the idea of earning new abilities to get you to new places - for example, the way in which some challenges couldn't be beaten on SA2 until you had the appropriate item. However, power ups that get used, say, only in one level and never again aren't really worth it. Also, the power up system of Sonic Heroes didn't really appeal to me - I didn't even think about who had what power up, I just concentrated on getting through the level as though it wasn't even there.
I hated the level up feature in Sonic Heroes. It was a nice bonus and let boss battles be less of a headache, but there was absoloutely no structure to it. I'd prefer them to stick to the Adventure style upgrades, feels like you just go through levels in SH getting level ups as you go not really caring.
If they're not going to make it a sense of achievement it'd be less hastle to just get an endless upgrade.
Personally I preferred the SA1 upgrades, they were unique, whereas SA2's were just plain silly (having the same upgrades for each player?! Why not just have them as default abilities?)
But, as Human Shadow said, SA2 had some good ideas, like needing to have certain upgrades to complete stages, or some just to make the game easier.
Personally I think EVERY character should have unique abilities, like in SA1 and SB. We don't want half the characters branded as clones, do we? Wait...
And the power core thing was just useless. Seriously.
*Blink in awe* Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge siiiiiig o.o
Also, in SH, the only people that seemed to get a level up is the 'Speed' characters. It was rare to see a power core for any 'Power' characters.
But yeah, I agree with THS on this one too. If you needed a level up to pass a level, it makes playing the game more worthwhile and fun too.
Edit: Yeah, that sig is really big! 
Usually you only get the level up orb for the character that you're using, which explains why you always get Speed.
No leveling up, it adds unnecessary and annoying baggage to the formula. The Team Blasts were an awful idea too. Everything comes to a complete standstill and all the enemies are destroyed. It kind of misses the whole point.
The three shield types in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, that was how powerups should be done (and SONIC was the one who could make the most of them, imagine that!).
Aye, custom sheild moves should come back. In a series where the central protagonist has less and less going for him, ANY kind of thing that can put him in more equal terms with his peers is a good thing.
Running on water would be a good idea, too.
Maybe they should bring back the sheilds but have them be important to complete the levels like in sonic adventure 2. Then if the shields do return I would like more variety then just 3 types.
I remember when it was a rumour that you could run on water in Sonic Adventure...
They ought to implement it, reach the right speed and you can run right off the beach over the ocean, but dont slow down or stop or you'll drown, and that means avoiding obstacles like mines or ferry boats.
Agreed. It's been a factor in the 2d games since Sonic 3 (Hydrocity), but hasn't actually been a feature.
What's worse is that everyone could do it in the Advance games.
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Maybe they should bring back the sheilds but have them be important to complete the levels like in sonic adventure 2.
How do you mean? The shields in SA2 just acted like basic barriers, and the magnetic ones also attracted rings. They didn't serve any purpose to the level design or characters' attacks.
Sheilds are there to make it so you DONT have to loose all your hard earned rings if you can help it in difficult areas...
Or magnetic ones are there to look cool as you gather ten times more rings than you would normally...
I like the system that was in SA2 as well...
What I meant was make them important like the character upgrades sorry for the confusion.
Character Upgrades and shields are COMPLETELY different...
If you made it so you needed a bouncy shield to reach a certain area (the Sonic 3 shield) then what happens if they get hit and loose the shield?
Although it would be nice to have a bouncy shield around so people could find secret areas in places...
Sadly, I think Shields are doomed to stay shields.
I see your point Swifthom if you do lose the shield you wouldn't be able to continue but I just wanted the shields to have more of a purpose but I guess we'll never see them again with the exception of the protection shield of course.
Punctuation is your friend because it prevents really long run-ons like this don't you think this would be easier to understand if it had some periods in it I think so and I hope you do too so please start using them more often than at the end of a post for great justice.
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I see your point Swifthom: if you do lose the shield you wouldn't be able to continue, but I just wanted the shields to have more of a purpose, but I guess we'll never see them again; with the exception of the protection shield of course.
I added punctuation for him, does that look nicer Shadow Hog 
I think the shields were almost perfect in Sonic 3.
In a new game if you needed them to progress then you'd run into problems if you take damage, or it'd have to act as a permanent powerup, which is an overall bad idea. And if it was a permanent powerup then there'd be no strategy or incentment there, it'd just become a standard character ability.
What would work though if there were some areas you could only access with shields, but those areas were only optional bonus routes (possibly leading to hidden emblems, Chao, Flickies etc). That would add an extra element of skill to those wanting to discover those areas, as they'd have to make it all the way to the locations without losing a shield. An example of this is if there was a large pool of lava that you could only pass with a fire shield.
That makes more sense Very Crazy Penguin I could live with that. Since you and a few others want the shields back, who wants the character upgrades back as well?
I wouldn't mind upgrades hat are relevant to the character, and not simply a plot device (eg. Mystic Melody). SA had the right idea - flying powerups for Tails, extra hammer abilities for Amy, etctera.
But they need imagination...
No no character upgrades make it feel too RPG-ish. I'd prefer the characters progress throughout the game eventually learning new techniques and stuff. After getting all the upgraded items Knux looked like a rapper in a music video. I'd prefer the characters stay bare. 0_0 As for the level-ups in Heroes...it worked for Omega, but other than that I didn't care too much for them.
I was thinking if upgrades do return, should you have to search the levels to get them or should their be a new way to get them. Im thinking a new way to get them, but I don't know what that new way would be.
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I wouldn't mind upgrades hat are relevant to the character, and not simply a plot device (eg. Mystic Melody)
The Mystic Melody was not a plot device because it did not tie in with the plot.
I don't think that permanent power ups are very important, and if done wrong could certainly become very sumbersome.
Here's how I'd handle them:
1. They should be hidden (especially in Adventure Fields). If a pwer up item is out in the open then what's the point of it not just being a standard move to the character?
2. You should be able to take them on and off. After a while it can get irritating watching Knuckles run around everywhere with sunglasses or gold gloves.
3. Expanding on the above point, there should be a limit on how many power ups you can "wear" at once. And to keep that air of strategy you shouldn't be able to switch what you're "wearing" mid-level, only at certain points (hotel rooms etc) in the Adventure Fields. The limitations on what you can wear don't necessarily have to be as straight as a simple number, it could depend on what type of item it is. For example you'll only be able to wear two power braclets at once.
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And to keep that air of strategy
Thats the trouble, do we want strategy?
We want variety but not strategy, all the fussing around with menus I cant stand it.
Thats why untill VERY recently I wouldnt touch an RPG besides Zelda with a bargepole, and even though I got into Final Fantasy I still get bored of it quickly.
The choices are:
Get them as you go along and keep them (IE. SA games)
Dont have them
Get them as hidden items if you want to search for them
Have them optional where you can take them on and off as you please.
Have them in every level but loose them when you die or progress to the next (SH)
I think personally a mixture of the first and third is best, I dont want them as optional unless it's quick and simple.
Also, I think we're talking about upgrades as three different things. Do you mean level up spheres like SH, or items that help you like in the Adventure games or learning new moves?
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Thats the trouble, do we want strategy?
We want variety but not strategy, all the fussing around with menus I cant stand it.
Well, the strategy wouldn't go much further than: I'm about to play the Get 100 Rings mission and this level has a lot of enemies so I'll use the defeated enemies produce rings powerup to make things easier.
Trouble is, that means pressing start, going into the options menu and scrolling down a horrendously long list of ALL the items we might want on and selecting the one I want on and turning ones I want off...
We're looking up to anywhere between 20 seconds and two minutes wasted on menus here. I've never had to look at a menu beside a level select in any Sonic game and I hope I never have to...
(Okay, Sonic BAttle is the exception, but that wasnt a traditional Sonic Game, and so is Sonic Shuffle but thats different as well. I'f we're talking about mainstream 3D roaming adventures then I want something simple yet engaging.)
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Trouble is, that means pressing start, going into the options menu and scrolling down a horrendously long list of ALL the items we might want on and selecting the one I want on and turning ones I want off...
This would all be done before the level starts though. And your last settings would be recorded, as your option settings usually are in games nowadays. And seeing as a character has never had any more than 6 power upgrades before in a Sonic game (Sonic in SA2) I somehow doubt that the hypothetical list would be "horrendously long", nor would the menu even be something you HAVE to use, you would only "wear" powerups IF YOU WANT TO, and then it would be saved that way until you decide to change it.
I really wouldn't mind if power upgrades are never seen again in the main Sonic series, but if they are then they should be useful, and I don't see how anyone could complain about having the option to play as the character without neon glow sticks dangling from their elbows.
I kind of like the learn new abilities as you go idea. Maybe when you reach a level in the game you have to find a certain ability to access certain paths. This way you can have a character obtain a new ability and they wouldn't have a ton of gear on them. But the only way to get this ability is to get rid of an older one. It maybe a tough decision but these abilities could give you access to shortcuts and stuff. It should be possible to finish some of the levels without them, but you would need a few. Then if you decide not to get some abilities the levels would be harder to finish. You then would always have the same number of abilities, and not have to worry about a huge list. If you don't want to use all the abilites you don't have to but you won't see the whole level, and it will be tougher.
Thing is though, thats exactly how Sonic Adventure works, only you can tell the difference between the before and after by a slight change in clothing.
Which people objected to...
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kind of like the learn new abilities as you go idea. Maybe when you reach a level in the game you have to find a certain ability to access certain paths. This way you can have a character obtain a new ability and they wouldn't have a ton of gear on them. But the only way to get this ability is to get rid of an older one. It maybe a tough decision but these abilities could give you access to shortcuts and stuff. It should be possible to finish some of the levels without them, but you would need a few. Then if you decide not to get some abilities the levels would be harder to finish. You then would always have the same number of abilities, and not have to worry about a huge list. If you don't want to use all the abilites you don't have to but you won't see the whole level, and it will be tougher.
As long as it's always possible to finish each and every level without any power upgrades at all then I agree. It could even become a challenge for replay value.
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Thing is though, thats exactly how Sonic Adventure works, only you can tell the difference between the before and after by a slight change in clothing.
Yeah, I know but thats the best way I see it working, but if you have a better solution please share.
Im not the one who dislikes the items in SA, I dislike th items in SH.
Sorry but is their anything in particular you want to see?
Not really
Although I would like to see more of Shadow and less of cream, but if I bandy it around to much I'll be lynched.
So, it looks like the upcomming game is for me then ![:]](https://www.lighthead.net/misc/mofo/smilies/biggrinshaded.gif)
As far as level ups are concerned I have VERY strong opinions but will go with whatever Sonic Team pumps out
I dunno why, but I think a somewhat more Metorid-style to the level-ups (or hey, the game in general) could work. We could take the Sonic series' speed and exploration factors and ramp them up a whole lot, giving you a lot of places to use your speed to attempt and reach. If you play it without exploring, though, which is always an option, it's mostly just a straight Sonic game only you revisit certain areas with new abilities every so often to access a new level and keep on progressing. Difference between this and the otherwise-similar SA2 is that these are mandatory (or at least near-mandatory) upgrades, required to access that area in a zone that'd lead to the next one. As I said, very much like Metroid, but playing like a Sonic game. A sort of SonicVania or something.
You could also make the rings Sonic's HP, and have enemies deal specific amounts of damage to Sonic (a la Triple Trouble), and/or have Sonic's attacks deal a specific amount back to them. Both the max HP and damage inflicted by either party unto the other could progress as you level up, but I dunno if THAT part's a good idea; levelling-up in a Sonic game? Sounds like an oxymoron. I'd have to experiment with that if I ever get a similar engine up and running. Still, you could have a decent game even without the that kind of levelling-up; certainly the older games are a testament to that.
Yes, this is mostly me ranting how a more open-ended Sonic game could be a good idea, but I still stand by it. It just needs to be done RIGHT.
I still perfer the get new abilities as you go idea. To me it seems more like it could please just about everyone. You could get the new abilities and it opens up the game giving you more paths to take and secrets to find. Choose not to get them and you get more challenge if you perfer it. However you'd need some of them otherwise they'd be useless. I know it sounds like sonic adventure, but I think it had the right idea just not executed well.
The most useful powerup I could see (in a traditional Sonic side-scroller) is something that let's you move about more freely underwater (like the air necklace). That would have been nice to have in earlier Sonic games where water levels are unbearably slow and jumping is awkward since Sonic sinks link a stone.
As a rule, I think powerups should stick to RPGs where turn-based battles and menus galore are standard fare.
I don't really care for any powerups in Sonic games...temporary ones like speed, invincibility and such do just fine for me...that and it got annoying hear them say, "POWERUP!" everytime they did it, that was just annoying and funny...
Yes, I too would like to see a return of the element shields...
I mean, come on, wasn't Hydrocity a lot easier with the water shield? And Lava Reef was quite bearable with a fire shield.
But, I do agree in that I don't think they'd fit into the 3D games.
I guess I'll just have to stick with Mega Collection...
OR....
They could work kind of like the Ancient Light.
Permanent Ability.
No change of clothing.
You know, just have 'em out and about, and, when you look at them, It's just an icon or something, so that you get the ability without the extra clothing. Kind of like a compromise between the "SA style level-ups" and the "gain abilities as you go" camps. What do you think?
EDIT: I too miss the elemental shields. Alwasys loved the ol' double-jump-ring-magnet. Magnetic barrier just doesn't cut it for me.
