Sorry for the confusion, Wraith. Actually, Sonic Adventure is a key game for locations and geography and stuff, and for understanding most ofwhat I wrote before, so I would look into getting it. If you don't have a Dreamcast or a Gamecube, you can always get the PC version.
I have to rectify something though. I said that the area in Sonic Adventure's Mystic Ruin's Jungle that later becomes Eggmanland is the original site of Angel Island. Well, I went back since and found that I was totally wrong. See, there are flash-back sequences in SA that take you back to the past of the Echidna civilisation before it was destroyed by Chaos. The same area low-down jungle area where Eggmanland will be constructed is there, and that's before Angel Island rose from the ground. But because the Past Echidna Temple leads to the Emerald Shrine via a tunnel, this is still good reason to see Angel Island being formerly part of Mystic Ruins/West Side Island - its just the geography was a little off.

While I'm here, I can vouch for Shifty's site list, especially sonicretro.net. Great site for game info with zone lists.

http://www.theghz.com
http://www.sonicretro.org
http://www.sonic-cult.org

There is useful data for you at each of these sites. The following two links are unrelated to your needs, but continue the list of good Sonic sites.

http://www.sonicresearch.org/art/
http://www.sonic-gif.com (Under Renovation)

Thanks for those links^^ I didn't check the cult one, since it said it was a mature site (I'm not really into anything that can be labelled 'mature'), but the retro one looks very useful indeed.

And no problem Blue man, my bad for not explaining well enough

Thanks again all, for the assistance, and if anyone has anything further to add I would be very greatful too.

Sonic 2

Emerald Hill Zone
Chemical Plant Zone
Aquatic Ruin Zone
Casino Night Zone
Hill Top Zone
Mystic Cave Zone
Oil Ocean Zone
Metropolis Zone
Sky Chase Zone
Wing Fortress Zone
Death Egg Zone

Sonic 3

Angel Island Zone
Hydrocity Zone
Marble Garden Zone
Carnival Night Zone
Ice Cap Zone
Launch Base Zone
===2 Player Zones===
Azure Lake Zone
Baloon Park
Chrome Gadget
Desert Palace
Endless Mine

Unless I'm missing something, those 2 player Zones were in S2, not S3.

Unless I'm missing something, those 2 player Zones were in S2, not S3.

No, Sonic 2's two player zones were just shortened versions of a few one player levels - Emerald Hill, Casino Night, Mystic Cave and a special atage.

The 'Earth' in Sega Sonic, (It is not Mobious) is based heavilly on the real Earth.

The Map in Sonic Adventure 2 /Battle is based heavilly on San Fransisco bay.

Golden Gate= Radical Highway, Prison Island= Alcatraz, Mission street=Tails 2nd level etc
Not to mention the general looks of both Maps.

Though obviously there are no Pyramids around real California. Artistic license.

Anyway there is also a real 'Angel Island' in real San Fransisco bay. Knowing that the SA2 map has a desert area with Pyramids just like Sandopolis in S+K, and some of the machines, (The flamethrower traps come to mind) and terrain in Sky Rail, and Pumpkin Hill are very similar to Red Mountain from Sonic Adventure/ DX, I assume the Angel Island in Sonic is from around San Fransisco bay also. (Though it was not an island but part of the main land I guess 3000 years ago.)

Taking the above to be true and knowing what we know from Sonic Adventure 1/DX, from Tikals flash backs, the Emerald shrine being next to the Mystic Ruins 3000 years ago... we can assume that Sonic Adventure 1/DX takes place in/ next to SA2/B map. The 'Square' that the train 'Station' is in, is part of Capitol city (ie San Fransisco bay) and the Mystic Ruins are a short train ride away.
(...I always assumed that little circle of bulidings in the top left corner of SA2s map was Station Square and the mystic ruins were north of there off screen.)

From there, things get a tad more fanwank-y.

I believe that the map from Rush 1 is just North of SA2's map/San Fran Bay. Leaf Storm is jungle ish like Mystic ruins (Kinda), Water Palace is like an above ground Hydrocity zone (From Sonic3 Angel island which we have estabilishd as being from the area), Mirage Road is clearly Sandopolis/ Sand ocean etc. Tails Workshop looks very similar to the one in SA1/DX which also kinda fits.

That would also help explane Cream the Rabit. Her mothers house is very close to 'Capitol City/San Fransisco' which is where Amy lives and Cream seems to sleep over in. (As seen in Battle.)

From there I assume Emerald Beach, Capitol City, Night Babylon are simply areas of Capitol city/Sanfransisco.
Just based of the fact characters clearly live there in Battle, and other characters somewhat imply they live in the areas the Adventure Games take place.

Shadow the Hedgehog does somewhat cause a slight snag. In that game Westopolis and Capitol city, to me are implied to be ceperate cities. Except the 'West' in Westopolis suggest San Fran to me. I guess it is a small point.

Next is Heroes/Riders1/2. All feature (a) very hi tech city(s). I am going to take inspiration from Final Fantasy 8 and say Sonics Japan is Estar. Hey, 'Japan' is not in Unleashed for a reason. (I said there would be fan wank.)

Anyway, Heroes Grand Metropolis is implied to be next to the Casino stage, which is said in the Chaotix level run to be next to the Rail Canyon stage, which again in the Chaotix stage is said to be next to the Lost Jungle. Hang Castle (Thanks to the Eggman/Metal Sonic statue is clearly one of Eggmans Bases stages) and thus presumably Cryptic Castle from Shadow rhe Hedgehog is also in the area.

Speaking of Riders... 'Babylon' suggests Iraq. As with that in mind, does the Sand Ruins stage. Metal city and the rest is anyones guess.

As for the rest...

Sonic 1 takes place on South Island.

Sonic 2 on Westside Island.

Sonic3 and Knuckles on Angel Island.

Sonic The Hedgehog 2006 is in (Real world) Venice. (Though it should be noted everything other than the end of the last story ending, happened in a altenate time line. Everything. Destroying the God of Time would have more than a slight impact on the time lines. For example... how would efect the time stones in Sonic CD?))

Geographical difeerenecs between Shadow the Hedgehog and Unleashed can be fan wanked away through the events of Advance 3. Splitting the world into 3 peices may have an effect on geography. And both maps can be seen to some what, I guess if you give them the benifit of the doubt and then some, to be a varient on our world.

Sonic Advance 1 Kind of fits agreeing with my above thoughts of San Fran Bay. (Neo Gree hill= Sonics 'Home' from Emerald town in Sonic Battle, 'Secret Base' in the first part of the first base is under a Golden gate 'ish' base like 'Metal Depot' in, Sonic Battle.

Sonic Advance 2 take palce... erm somewhere? Though Sky Caneon is Angel Island Floating by the area,

Aonic Advance 3... All over the world. Route 99 Is probably Sanfransisco. Chaos Emerald is clearly Angel Island. The rest... pick a place.

Oh and CD is on little planet.

Rush Adventure is on the islands nearby altermate dimersions version of South Isand, Southside Island. ( A cross between sonic 1 and 2)

The rest, unless I have missed something, are not canon
on these days.

Ah kk thanks for that info^^

Woah, woah, woah! Okay, I've got some major issues with some of your logic P1.

P1 Pause wrote:

---

Anyway there is also a real 'Angel Island' in real San Fransisco bay. Knowing that the SA2 map has a desert area with Pyramids just like Sandopolis in S+K, and some of the machines, (The flamethrower traps come to mind) and terrain in Sky Rail, and Pumpkin Hill are very similar to Red Mountain from Sonic Adventure/ DX, I assume the Angel Island in Sonic is from around San Fransisco bay also. (Though it was not an island but part of the main land I guess 3000 years ago.)

So, what you're saying here is that the desert, mountain range and lagoon areas in SA2 are Angel Island? This doesn't work since looking at the map reveals it is all one big land mass. And trying to explaining it is 3000 years ago doesn't work since the land mass is grounded on the earth and in the present day, and should be floating above it if it really was Angel Island.

Taking the above to be true and knowing what we know from Sonic Adventure 1/DX, from Tikals flash backs, the Emerald shrine being next to the Mystic Ruins 3000 years ago... we can assume that Sonic Adventure 1/DX takes place in/ next to SA2/B map. The 'Square' that the train 'Station' is in, is part of Capitol city (ie San Fransisco bay) and the Mystic Ruins are a short train ride away.
(...I always assumed that little circle of bulidings in the top left corner of SA2s map was Station Square and the mystic ruins were north of there off screen.)

Looking at that "circle of buildings", although the theory sounds good, it can't be Station Square. Station Square in Sonic Adventure looks out onto an open sea, with no hint of another land mass in the form of SanFran Bay/City Escape/Radical Highway etc., which there should be according to your theory. The same is true in SADX, which came out AFTER SA2. Had this been the intention, SEGA could've easily changed the horizon in SADX, and since they didn't it would be wrong to just say its true anyway.

I believe that the map from Rush 1 is just North of SA2's map/San Fran Bay. Leaf Storm is jungle ish like Mystic ruins (Kinda), Water Palace is like an above ground Hydrocity zone (From Sonic3 Angel island which we have estabilishd as being from the area), Mirage Road is clearly Sandopolis/ Sand ocean etc. Tails Workshop looks very similar to the one in SA1/DX which also kinda fits.

Again, this is impossible. The map is all one land mass, with no hint of the presence of Angel Island, so saying that Water Palace is overground Hydrocity and Mirage Road is Sandopolis is just ridiculous. Judging by the types of foliage found in Leaf Storm, I wouldn't bet on it be the same as Mystic Ruins. Leaf Storm is more of a tropical Jungle/Forest and Mystic Ruins is dark and dence with very few flowers and other brightly coloured plants found in Leaf Storm. There is a Mytic Ruins in Sonic Chronicles though that is almost identicle in design to the SA one, and again, nothing like Leaf Storm, so I'm sue that Leaf Storm and Mystic Ruins are two very different locations. Additionally, while it is similar in design and close to to a heavily green area I don't think this is the same Tails' Workshop - its orientation and placement in releation to SA's Workshop is very diffient, for example the hanger doors do not look out onto the ocean.
But, given that yo've got Tail's House and Workshop in Emerald Town from Sonic Battle and another Workshop in Central City from Sonic Chronicles, it would be safe to assume that there are, in fact, many Workshops that Tails uses. It would make sence that since he travels the work in the Tornado with Sonic he would need suitable places to dock.

That would also help explane Cream the Rabit. Her mothers house is very close to 'Capitol City/San Fransisco' which is where Amy lives and Cream seems to sleep over in. (As seen in Battle.)

Given that prior comments about CENTRAL City and its irrelevance to Sonic Rush's map, this would also be fundimentally wrong. I don't thik I can explain it in the same way as Tails, that wouldn't work, but in real life people travel large distances to visit family and friends, so I'm suggesting that Cream would have travel to travel to Central City to visit Amy. I don't believe it says anywhere in Sonic Battle that Cream lives close to Cental City, although I might be wrong. Can anyone tell me?

From there I assume Emerald Beach, Capitol City, Night Babylon are simply areas of Capitol city/Sanfransisco.
Just based of the fact characters clearly live there in Battle, and other characters somewhat imply they live in the areas the Adventure Games take place.

As I've said earlier in the topic, I don't give a lot of credit to Sonic Battle. According to that game you can just walk to Knuckles' House with no problem, completelry ignoring the fact that he lives on an island that floats in the freaking sky.

Shadow the Hedgehog does somewhat cause a slight snag. In that game Westopolis and Capitol city, to me are implied to be ceperate cities. Except the 'West' in Westopolis suggest San Fran to me. I guess it is a small point.

Because there is no Level Map in Shadow, any attempt to place any of the locations is pure conjecture. You might say that given the fact that the Central City Stage and the Westopolis Stage are basically clone stages that they are two locations that sit right next to eachother where the same elements of architeture bleed into eachother in a way that they become indistinguishable.

Next is Heroes/Riders1/2. All feature (a) very hi tech city(s). I am going to take inspiration from Final Fantasy 8 and say Sonics Japan is Estar. Hey, 'Japan' is not in Unleashed for a reason. (I said there would be fan wank.)

What?! You can't really be saying that because Grand Metropolis, Metal City and Meteor Falls are hi-tech cities are the same location can you? And tryign to say its Japan?! By that logic, all big Metropolises in the world are the same city - Tokyo, New York, Dubai, London - all they say basic thing, right? And back with Sonic, that Green Hill Zone and Emerald Hill Zone are the same place because they're green and they have hills, DESPITE the CLEAR FACT that they are on TWO SEPERATE ISLANDS! I mean, there's conjecture through simple logic and there's talking out of your brown eye.

Anyway, Heroes Grand Metropolis is implied to be next to the Casino stage, which is said in the Chaotix level run to be next to the Rail Canyon stage, which again in the Chaotix stage is said to be next to the Lost Jungle. Hang Castle (Thanks to the Eggman/Metal Sonic statue is clearly one of Eggmans Bases stages) and thus presumably Cryptic Castle from Shadow rhe Hedgehog is also in the area.

Actually, this I don't have much of a problem with. Hang Castle could, in this instance, very well be related to Cryptic Castle. Although, just because you go from one level to another, doesn't neccessarily mean that they are geographicly next to eachother, and Chaotix plays in the same linier pattern as all the other Team Stories, but you're making it sound like they're different to the others.

Speaking of Riders... 'Babylon' suggests Iraq. As with that in mind, does the Sand Ruins stage. Metal city and the rest is anyones guess.

Now, what's been getting to me is your eagerness to relate the stages from the games to real world locations like it means anything. Look at the the world map in Sonic Unleashed, and the map that appears on the wall from Shadow the Hedgehog. They are completely different to any World Atlus you may look at. Sure, various stages take inspiration from real world locations, but thats all. Their geographic relevence is comletely contradictory. The Mystic Ruins' real world inspiration where the Mayan Ruins in South America, but you can't get a train ride from there to a North American coastal city like SanFran which you claim to be Station Square. Or in Unleashed, like Apotos (Greece) being west of Spagonia (Italy), or Shamar (Saudi Arabia) being mysteriously inbetween Chun-nan (China) and Apotos, where the Sonic version of the U.S. should be (This geography comes from my understanding of the Wii/PS2 version of the game which might differ from the 360/PS3 version which includes Empire City (New York), an exclusive location). It just doesn't work and none of it helps determine Sonic's world geography.

Sonic The Hedgehog 2006 is in (Real world) Venice. (Though it should be noted everything other than the end of the last story ending, happened in a altenate time line. Everything. Destroying the God of Time would have more than a slight impact on the time lines. For example... how would efect the time stones in Sonic CD?))

First, as I've said, Soleanna is mearly BASED on Venice, it isn't the same. Secondly, just because the games events didn't happen, or happen in an "alternate timeline(?)", it doesn't mean the place doesn't exist. Just because Marty McFly went back in time to prevent Doc Brown's death, doesn't mean that California doesn't exist anymore.

Geographical difeerenecs between Shadow the Hedgehog and Unleashed can be fan wanked away through the events of Advance 3. Splitting the world into 3 peices may have an effect on geography. And both maps can be seen to some what, I guess if you give them the benifit of the doubt and then some, to be a varient on our world.

*sigh* Worst. Contradiction. Ever! Look, when you break a vase, the pieces have to go back in the exact same place, overwise it wouldn't fit to gether and it all fall aprat again. When he planet broke up in Adv. 3, it would have had to have been put together in the same way it was before. This is what happens in Sonic Unleashed. Geez, even Star Fox Adventures did the same thing with Dinosaur Planet! So, geoqraphy couldn't have just changed - its just one of those things that can not, and will not, ever be explainable.

Sonic Advance 1 Kind of fits agreeing with my above thoughts of San Fran Bay. (Neo Gree hill= Sonics 'Home' from Emerald town in Sonic Battle, 'Secret Base' in the first part of the first base is under a Golden gate 'ish' base like 'Metal Depot' in, Sonic Battle.

Nowhere does it say that "Sonic's Home" is in Neo Green Hill/Emerald Beach. As far as his biography suggests, he doesn't have or need a home. That's what happens when you're as free as the wind. The rest, of trying to relate everything to SanFran, is just garbage.

Sonic Advance 2 take palce... erm somewhere? Though Sky Caneon is Angel Island Floating by the area,

You can't just say that Sky Canyon IS Angel Island. As I said before "some have suggested in the past that Sky Canyon Zone from Sonic Advance 2 is part of Angel Island". Its only been a theory, and no one can say for sure. I believe that there is a scale issue. Sky Canyon's floating Island is very small, and largely brown - I hardly believe that such a thing can contain ALL those other zones from S3&K, and other depitions have shown it to be quite green and mountainous.

Aonic Advance 3... All over the world. Route 99 Is probably Sanfransisco. Chaos Emerald is clearly Angel Island. The rest... pick a place.

Yes... becuase everything in Sonic takes place in San Fran-freaking-sico... ¬_¬ Likewise, stop trying to tie everything in with real Earth Geography.

Oh and CD is on little planet.

This IS true, but not technically part of the planet, although it is an important "place" in the wider Sonic Universe. With that in mind, here's another thing to add to you're geography list, Wraith - Never Lake. Here's a little more information about it, but no hnts as to where it is in relation to other locations.

Rush Adventure is on the islands nearby altermate dimersions version of South Isand, Southside Island. ( A cross between sonic 1 and 2)

Rush Adventure's locations are not a part of "Mobius"-proper (I say mobius just becuase thats how Wraith is refering to it, and becuase Sonic's World-proper doesn't sound as good), and thus not essential to Wraith's cause. By the way, "nearby altermate dimersions version of South Isand, Southside Island"? Where the hell is this from? What the hell is Southside Island? This has never come up anywhere in any game script or backstory. Pure conjecture.

Sorry if I've been mean, but most of this has been you trying to explain things by tying it in with Earth geography, or trying to simplify things by saying that multiple levels are the same basic location, and frankly it doesn't work and your explainations are full of contradictions, and you provide some very weak evidence and vague logic to argue your points. Just accept that not everything is explainable and thatn ultimately, its the creators that decide how the games geography works, and unless they've specifically stated nothing can be definate.

Wraith, I'd forget most of that "info" if I were you. On the plus side, I've got another site for you to go through:
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Locations
Now, a lot of the mentioned locations are from continuities other than Sega Sonic, but each entry will tell you which continuity they are from. Give it a try, although some of the information is somewhat questionable.

lol let's try not to start an argument or anything here guys, this is ment to be a fun and friendly discussion not a warzone. As I said earlier on, my intention is to take all the info I recieve here and from other sources, refine it, then put together my own continuity and geography from all of these different places, picking and choosing bits that I want to keep and to get rid of. With that in view, I'm interested to hear everybody's viewpoints and angles on the matter, however unusual they may be, as they'll be inspiration for my own ideas rather than concrete SEGASonic canon. I'm also interested to hear discussions about conflicting viewpoints, and reasons as to why a suggested aspect would not be workable for whatever reason, but let's try to keep those discussions casual and carefree, ya?

And thanks for those other links Blueman^^ I am aware of the Neverlake from STC UK and my reaserch into Sonic CD (although I've not played the game myself) and intend to include it in my ideas somewhere, but that info is helpful, and I'm sure those locations will be handy as well. Thanks once again to all who are giving info and suggestions, and please keep it up if there's anything further to add!

Oops. Musta got a tad hot-headed there ^^;

Yea really come on now...no need in getting angry over this. I once tried connected all the places of the Sonic Universe together...you've got a loooong road ahead Wraith. It's always really interesting though, to see how people connect things and stuff. I'm surely going to be watching how this comes out.

Actually, Wraith you should totally do that - post your progress here so that we can see how your workings develop.

lol I could do, but judging by what has been said already some of the things I'm thinking of might be frowned upon. I mean it's my own take on the story so I guess I can take it any way I please, but I'd hate to get some of the more die-hard fans upset at me

Plus it's going slowly at the moment...very, very slowly...

Well, just post it in the Carnival Island forum, that way you won't be conflicting with the Sega exclusive nature of South Island, and I promise I won't flip out again XP

lol the project I'm working on isn't nearly far enough along yet to warrent a topic in Carni Isle. Gonna be a looooooong time before it hits that point, if it ever does for that matter.

But okay, I'll put down some of the things I'm thinking here just to get some feedback. Perhaps you will be able to point out things I haven't thought of or problems with my ideas that I might have missed. Just please understand if I choose to stick with something that you would consider 'wrong' - no offence to you, natch, it just suits my plans and story better.

First up, I know you said above that you don't like the idea of the Green Hill being the same location as the Emerald Hill, however I've always kinda thought of them as the same place. The zone would be located on South Island, which I'm thinking of as a very large island (perhaps as big as the UK and Ireland, maybe even slightly larger) to the south of a large mainland area, seperated by a reasonably wide body of water (almost wide enough to prevent the other side being seen from the beach). The Emerald Hill would make up the western coastline of this island, with Flicky Island and it's zones a mile or so off this coast, and Cocoa Island (Tails Adventure) way to the south. Isolated Island (Knux Chaotix) would be way out west in the middle of the ocean. Sonic R's Resort Island track would also be located here, as perhaps would Sonic Heroes' Ocean Palace.

I'm thinking that the Endless Mine zone (Sonic3 two player) may be located somewhere in the Emerald Hill, perhaps to the north. Also possibly the Azure Lake zone, but this I'm uncertain of, as I had considered the possibillity that the Azure Lake could be the same lake that the Miracle Planet hovers over. The Miracle Planet I have provisionally located on the mainland area to the north for now.

Also on South Island would be other zones, and here again I've done some experimental shifting and adjusting (don't hurt me ). I'm thinking that the Marble zone and the Aquatic Ruin zone (S1 and S2 respectivley) could be one and the same, as the archetecture and landscape is perhaps vaguely similar. And before anyone points out the difference of lava=/=water, I was thinking that could be explained away as follows: I figure Hill Top zone (S2) is also on South Island, and may be a border to Marble/Aqua Ruin (they come close together in S2's level progression). And if Hill Top is an active volcano as the fire in that level suggests, it's possible some lava floes could have run down into the Aquatic Ruin zone too, allowing for Marble zone's lava in that area. Hill Top zone itself I imagine as a large range of mountains rather than just a single mountain, and I am half considering the possibillity that Sonic Heroes' Rail Canyon and Bullet Station levels might be located there too.

South Island would also contain a number of other zones to the east of these ones (perhaps Savanah Citadel, Leaf Forest, Dry Lagoon, etc.), but these have yet to be confirmed or decided upon.

Now we come to the complicated bit. Labrynth zone (S1) I am thinking of as a series of deep, subterranian catacombs that stretch underneath the waterway between South Island and the mainland. It's South Island exits are located in the Marble/Aquatic Ruin zone (ie. the labrynth was made by the same people that made the ruins), which would also allow for the S1 game progression from the Marble Zone through the labrynth (Spring Yard is such a wierd concept that I'm having trouble fitting it in here, I've moved that elsewhere, explanation in a moment). So if one knows their way around, one could actually walk right from South Island, through the Labrynth zone under the sea bed, and emerge on the mainland. And what they would find there is the Metropolis zone.

Metropolis I've thought of as a gigantic city, far bigger than any city on Earth. And I know this may raise eyebrows, but I'm thinking that Metropolis = Grand Metropolis (Sonic Heroes) = Station Square (SA). The reason I think of them all the same is because in the concept that I'm writing, only a small area of Mobius has any real technology, and it's all focussed on this one gigantic city covering many square miles. Beyond the city boundaries (South Island for example) poppulation is centered around towns and villages rather than dense cities, and beyond that it's tribal villages and cave dwellers (a large proportion of the planet's landmass is still unexplored terrain in this concept, with great unknown areas like the USA in the time of Columbus). This is because the majority of Mobians reject very much technology in their daily lives, prefering to live closer to nature.

The Metropolis zone itself would be devided up into sectors and districts, and I've included many zones from the games here. the Starlight zone I think of as a particularly upmarket district of the city, and it is in this district that the mainland entrances to the Labrynth zone come out (a la Sonic1 level progression). The Scrap Brain zone would be another area of the city that Robotnik had taken over, and where he founded his personal base from which to control his empire. Oil Ocean zone would be the Metropolis waterfront and dockyards. And also Casino Night zone would be a very large subburb of the city, including locations such as Spring Yard, Baloon Park, Twinkle Park, Bingo Highway and the Radical City race track from Sonic R. Small note here: I've never really been able to square the location of Sonic 3's Carnival Night zone on the Angel Island, given the supposed history of the Echidna race and all, so I've taken a little artistic license here also to say that Carnival Night = Casino Night.

Beyond the outskirts of the Metropolis zone I'm still working on. As I said before I'm thinking the Miracle Planet could be located somewhere to the east of the city, and also Sonic Heroes' Frog Forest and Lost Jungle, along with a whole lot of other natural levels. Sonic 2's Mystic Cave zone would also be in this area, although much closer to the city than some other zones, perhaps even linked via a stray passageway or two to the Labrynth zone. This would allow for a close (albeit slightly skewed) Sonic2 level prgression of Emerald Hill > Aquatic Ruin > Hill Top > Mystic Cave > Casino Night > Oil Ocean > etc. I am planning, however, to have a huge expanse of desert many miles to the north of the city (including a few incidental zones as 'areas' within the desert, like Arid Sands, Sand Oasis and Mirage Road), and this acts as a natural barrier to the lands of the north, the reason why most of the lands in that direction have never been explored. Other barriers prevent exploration to the 'Outlands' (as Mobians call them) in other directions, like the great sea to the west.

One small note about a level that has been missed out above - Chemical Plant. I'm thinking of that as a temporary zone located where the borders of the Emerald Hill, Hill Top and Aquatic Ruin zones converge. It was built by Robotnik as part of his second campaign to take over Mobius (it didn't exist before then) and after Sonic's visit during the events of S2, it is completely destroyed and ceases to exist again.

And I think the only zones left to be covered now are the ones on the Angel Island, but that geogrephy is pretty much spelled out in the games anyway. The Ice Cap zone is a mountain range in the center of the island, with the Lava Reef zone below it, containing the Hidden Palace. Mushroom Hill, Sandopolis and Marble Garden are all located around this mountain range, and Hydrocity is located beneath the Marble Garden (much the same way as the Labrynth zone is located beneath the Marble/Aqua Ruin zone on South Island...hrm hrm ). And the Sky Sanctuary floats in the sky above the island. The Sandopolis zone would also be home to the Sonic R track Regal Ruin (as per all the statues it contains with Echidna heads). Launch Base zone is the only S3&K level I have dropped altogether, and this is for story purposes not geography issues.

And that's what I have so far. As I said it's still a work in progress (and will be for a long time to come), and there's a whole lot of zones that I haven't yet worked out propper places for, but fortunately there's a whole lot of space in my concept to fit them in as well, so it shouldn't be too difficult^^ Any thoughts would be welcome, just as I said, please don't be offended if I choose to stick with something you may not agree with.

I'm actually quite impressed with what you've got so far. I especially dig that Hill Top/Marble Zone/Aquatic Ruin bleeding into eachother - quite ingenious. And while it's not completely consistant, I can see how well you've managaded to keep the stage flow from the games despite the scattered nature of the zones - to say, you've nicely pieced together a more naturally random state of geography. Nice work. Can't wait to see more.

Wraith the Echidna wrote:
lol let's try not to start an argument or anything here guys, this is ment to be a fun and friendly discussion not a warzone.

Blue the Echidna wrote:
Oops. Musta got a tad hot-headed there ^^;

For what it is worth, no problem. And in retrospect I did come across a little as stating fact rather than fanwanking.

No hard feelings?

Blue the Echidna wrote:

Actually, Wraith you should totally do that - post your progress here so that we can see how your workings develop.

Yeah awesome. I've been looking for something like this.

Wraith the Echidna wrote:
Also on South Island would be other zones, and here again I've done some experimental shifting and adjusting (don't hurt me ). I'm thinking that the Marble zone and the Aquatic Ruin zone (S1 and S2 respectivley)...

So this is coming from someone who sees the Genesis/Mega Drive games canon comming from the JP manuals, rather than the NTSC/PAL ones, due to them being alot more detailed, and having stronger connections to the Sonic Story from Sonic Adventure onwards...

So doesn't Sonic1 take place on South Island, and Sonic 2 on Westside Island?

Wraith the Echidna wrote:
Launch Base zone is the only S3&K level I have dropped altogether, and this is for story purposes not geography issues.

That intrests me. Why have you dropped a whole zone from the S3&K story if you do not mind explaining?

The story in the zone seems to make sense to me... The Death Egg has crashed in the lake (as mentioned in the Japenesse manual translation.), Eggman desperatly tries to escape as Sonic attacks, the launch fails due to lack of a proper power supply (i.e. Chaos Emeralds or Master Emerald.), and thus crashes back onto the island, in the Volcano. Whats wrong with that?

Blue the Echidna wrote:
So, what you're saying here is that the desert, mountain range and lagoon areas in SA2 are Angel Island?

No, no.
I am suggesting that the desert, mountain range and lagoon areas in SA2 are the landmass that Angel Island was attached to 3000 years ago before the Perfect Chaos event. Though I have no idea where Angel Island itself is... It is not in the air during SA2. The Master Emerald is nowhere near the Island the whole game.

Blue the Echidna wrote:
I don't believe it says anywhere in Sonic Battle that Cream lives close to Cental City, although I might be wrong. Can anyone tell me?

No it does not. Just speculation based of the observation Cream seems to be staying at Amy's place. And even if she has helped save the world a couple of times at this point I would imagine Vanilla wants her down the road rather than on the other side of the world.

Blue the Echidna wrote:
*sigh* Worst. Contradiction. Ever! Look, when you break a vase, the pieces have to go back in the exact same place, overwise it wouldn't fit to gether and it all fall aprat again. When he planet broke up in Adv. 3, it would have had to have been put together in the same way it was before. This is what happens in Sonic Unleashed.

That is based of the assumption what Eggman did in Advance3 was the same as Unleashed. I always thought the splitting in Advance3 was more a splitting dimensions thing. (Chaos Control caused it, Giant Rings to get around, Psychadelic Rainbow Ether between zones upon beating bosses, final Super Sonic Boss taking place in somewhere which is not Earth nor Space, but in something else (something resembeling the final boss in 'Rush' which was also to do with dimensions.) The Master Emerald being the thing to fix things, and doing it in a simple flash.)

As apposed to a physical ripping the pieces from the planet as was done with Unleashed. That litterally was a jigsaw.

And if Chaos Control can help people recue Batts from locked safes, and exploding capsules in space, no reason it could not effect a little geography. (That would also explain why roads for cars have loop de loops! haos Control- the plot device for everything! (tm))

And my quote button does not seem to work too well.

Glad you like it Blue man^^

And P, in response to your questions:

1) Actually truth be told, I've largely taken my 'cannon' from my interpretation of the games themselves. I've never been a big one on reading manuals, I've always jumped into the game right away, and in truth until just a couple of years ago I didn't even realise there was a particularly detailed 'story' contained within the manuals at all. I got the basic plot of 'Robotnik bad guy turning animals into robots, Sonic travelling the world to stop him' and the rest I kinda made up for myself as I went along.

So coming to my writing of this concept today, I guess I've got some of those old stories that were floating around in my head from when I was 5 years old that are influencing my thoughts on the matter. I have modified them slightly to conform to the canon that I now know exists, like for instance the existance of 'South Island' in the first place and other details, but my view is colored by my experiences of the games as a child - which perhaps gives me a new and unique slant to approach the thing from, but also may limit me in some areas where a later bit of 'canon' doesn't fit with what I imagined the story to be. But in truth, if you're asking what the inspiration behind this concept is, it isn't the story from either manual, it's simply sitting down and playing the games through the eyes of a young child, and building my own version of the world as those eyes saw it.

And the reason I haven't included West Side Island is...well...I think that name just sounds a bit rubbish tbh lol 'South Island' sounds cool, and I can imagine Sonic saying something like "I'm gonna protect South Island from Robotnik if it's the last thing I do!" But 'West Side Island'? Nah...

In my concept, both the first and second Sonic games start out on South Island, then move to the mainland to the north, eventually winding up in the Metropolis zone.

2) You know, that's an interesting aspect to look at the Launch Base zone's Death Egg launch from - he was launching in a hurry and so the launch failed. Personally, I'd just taken it that he tried to launch but the launch was stopped by Sonic, then he tried to launch again. And it's for this reason that I dropped the Launch Base from my concept - while a double launch might be somewhat more true to the game continuity, it wouldn't be very useful for something like a story, as it could easily get rather repetative, with the Death Egg going up and down like a yoyo. Also, to have Sonic and co running through every single zone in the S3&K game would be repeatative too - enter a zone, beat a new badnik, defeat a boss, enter a new zone, etc. Works in a game where the player is part of the action, but not really in story format as the reader would just get bored.

For this reason, I wanted a version of the S3&K game that would remain at least reasonably close to the canon story, but would also work in my concept, so I made a few small changes to the plot progression. The Death Egg would only crash once, in the volcano, and Robotnik would be after the emeralds from the get go. Sonic would go through the Angel Island, Hydrocity and Marble zones as normal, but then he would head up to the Flying Battery, and it would be this that crashes and is destroyed half way through the storyline rather than the Death Egg on first launch. From there the action transferrs to Sandopolis zone, as in the game, however the small cutscene where Sonic sees Knux sneaking around and finds a giant chaos ring would take place here rather than in the Mushroom Hill, as it does in the game. Then from Sandopolis it's the in game progression of Lava Reef > Hidden Palace > Sky Sanctuary > etc.

Ice Cap and Mushroom Hill zones do exist in my concept, however they would not be used in this particular story (I'd probably bring them in in another arc), and as mentioned in the previous post, Carnival Night has been reworked as another name for Casino Night, part of the Metropolis zone. The Launch Base, however, only ever existed in the games to launch the Death Egg, so without the Egg launching and crashing a second time, it's not needed.

Wow.

Ok, good luck with whatever your doing.