Now, now, now. A few of you are being a bit hasty here.

Tails, the cute little genius, has a gun in his mech during Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, and a lazer sphere shooting hand cannon in Sonic Battle, and everything's fine and dandy. Shadow, the big, bad enigma has one, and it's suddenly terrible and deserves a T rating!? Naaww. Heck, his firing ability seems to be almost identical to Omega's. Jump, shoot twice, land, continue onslaught, yet I saw nothing like this happening when Sonic Heroes came out.

Heck, if you looked over at the gaming academy, I posted a topic about the new E-10+ game rating. If Jak II had to be lowered to that level (not a derogatory term), then surely this will have the same fate? Since guns have been used a few times before, the only reason I see to make this is as such, the fact that the enemies in this game seem to be living beings. (What are they, aliens!?{I don't read it, but didn't Archie have Shadow encounter aliens? Are they any way alike in appearance?})

Some of those levels seem downright interesting. I wonder if those ruins have any good storyline. If there's one thing I learned in the Sonic story, it's that ruins mean a great story. ^_^ Though, I must say, that downhill sand thing looks weird. Shadow looks, well, kinda tall, and it seems that one of his spikes are bent, or something. (To the right)

About the 'aliens,' perhaps they're not aliens at all, and some kind of G.U.N. experiment?

As for it being a hoax, other than a few minor things, I don't see that happening. There's a part that seems to be SA2's White Jungle/Green Forest zone (wasn't that blown up!?), and the aforementioned Sonic Adventure logo, which, correct me if I'm mistaken, was used as an edited hoax before.

While I do agree that Shadow just ominously coming back to life seems a bit pointless from SA2 to SH, I don't see any big deal about him having his own game. Knuckles Chaotix did well, though I'm not sure about Tails Adventures and Skypatrol.

As for Shadow actually running faster than his bullets, the games are all played to scale except for VERY quick instances. You don't see Sonic making sonic booms every time he reaches top speed in the games (except Hyper Sonic), and he's gotta charge to reach light speed. (Light Speed Dash {Attack})

Hero or Villain, you choose? SW:KotOR and Fable's alignment idea has changed gaming forever, it seems. Naw. It says on the Sonic Adventure 2 game box to choose to save the world, or destroy it. Yet, you never get this chance.

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper, downright giddy, despite what Sonic game it could turn out to be.

Well, I've been studying the screen shots, and you may notice that Shadow has two energy bars. What they are for, I don't know. One is probably for chaos powers, the other, possibly the gun. From the looks of it, the gun could be replacing the "Power" formation of Heroes. It's clear in images that the guns blasts are destroying huge chunks of the environment.

If this is true, then we can all calm down a bit. Clearing a path on the fly sounds like a fairly standard Sonic element. Certainly, even Shadow might use a gun like that. It's not like he's creeping into people's apartments and shooting them as they sleep.

That also intimates that it's not your average gun. A normal revolver wouldn't knock down towers and destroy boulders.

We still wouldn't know why he has the gun for a while. Rather then simply shouting "plot hole" we can attempt to come up with a good reason for him to have it. I would be just as happy if it were quickly alluded to in the opening.

For example:

Rouge: You can't be serious?! You're going after the Army?
Shadow: I must know the truth. Who, what am I?
Rouge: It's too dangerous. Omega and I will come with you.
Shadow: No, I must go alone.
*Rouge hands him Gun*
Rouge: The take this for protection.
Shadow: What would I need this puny thing for?
Rouge: It's a secret government prototype. You're going up against things a lot worse then Eggman.
*Shadow shrugs and dashes off*

And once again for people who still say that Guns don't belong in a Sonic game, there have been guns in Sonic 2, Sonic 3 and Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes. Possible more that I am forgetting. The key is that SONIC doesn't use them, and if you'll notic, Sega has made a very consious decision for this to be a SHADOW game. This isn't ment to be the next Sonic game. It's a Sonic-spinoff.

Not that this is relevant but I'm a girl, not a guy XD...

Okay, granted it doesn't matter to you, but I find it 'unfound' that other people are getting worked up about the fact that he's staring in his own game (assuming this isn't a hoax).

I really think the demo was in it's early stages. And did it give off a bad vibe to most people in general or most people here? From things I have read so far, granted it wasn't the whole net, there seems to be a balance of thoughts. Interestingly enough, I've also read a lot of people saying they dislike the gun idea and the game itself as an idea, but they're going to get it anyway to see what it's like. As long as it sells, that's all SonicTeam are going to worry about... right?

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However, it doesn't matter how good the gameplay would be, crap like this does not belong in Sonic games. It's too dark and angsty to be a Sonic game, and it's a far step behind the real Sonic games we've come to know and love.

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I can't help but wonder if people felt that when the Sonic Adventure games took over the classics. (EDIT: The 'step beyond the real Sonic games we've come to know and love'... not the big about the angst part >.>; ) I think some people are reluctant to take change sometimes.
Would it really make people feel a lot better though if this game was handed over to another company to release to protect 'Sonic Team's' pure name?

I don't really know why people are getting worked up over the gun. What's the difference between playing Shadow with a gun, or James Pond or Ratchet and Clank even? I'm willing to stand corrected in that I really think it's not such a big deal. If people are worried it's going to corrupt young kids then maybe they should be censoring SO many other things out there to 'shelter' the young ones.
Perhaps people feel SonicTeam have set themselves up for 'Goody goody' games?

I have to admit when I saw the trailer the first time I was like "What the.... Shadow THE Ultimate Lifeform with a GUN? This must be a hoax! There's no way!" but when I noticed this was a real game in development, I was really shocked and not fond of the CONCEPT of Shadow using a gun as a weapon (whatever happened to his green chaos emerald from Sonic Heroes and Sa2? What about Chaos Spear and Chaos Control?).

Being a Shadow fan, I watched the trailer over and over and I thought that hopefully the game won't be so bad. As mentionned several times, there must be a good explanation as to why Shadow is using a gun. I'm slowly getting used to the concept now.... once it comes out, I'll buy the game and give it a try, mainly for the storyline (Hey I wanna know the truth about Shadow as much as some people). =)

Never judge a game by it's trailer! (Especially when the trailer doesnt really show the final product).

Omega: Rouge? Why did you not use this weaponry against the Eggman?

Rouge: ~plot hole~

The first thing I noticed about the trailer was that there were NO FREAKIN' ROBO-SUIT OR EMERALD-GRABBING LEVELS TO BE SEEN! Nothing but Shadow, blazing, racing, blasting, and bouncing all over. Hey, Sega even ommited clips of the Knuckles and Robotnik levels from the Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 videos in the trailer. Whether this game measures up to the Genesis Sonics, I can't tell, but it seems to focus all on speed, and I think that alone will make this the best 3-D Sonic yet.

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Omega: Rouge? Why did you not use this weaponry against the Eggman?

Rouge: ~plot hole~

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Did I say that dialogue would come directly after Heros? Rouge is a master thief, and may have nicked it afterward. Also, I highly doubt that Eggman is the villain this time around.

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Rouge: You can't be serious?! You're going after the Army?
Shadow: I must know the truth. Who, what am I?
...etc, yadda yadda
Rouge: It's a secret government prototype. You're going up against things a lot worse then Eggman.
*Shadow shrugs and dashes off*

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:'(

As for guns in the Sonic series, yes - this is technically true. But these were fantasy weapons - Laser guns, rocket launchers and cutesy cannons. But this, these are models of real guns, pistols, sub automatic machine guns - not comical and fictional weaponry that causes things to explode in a puff of smoke, but based on real weaponry that punches holes in flesh - these are things that are horribly out of place in a Sonic/Sonic derived game. It just looks cheap and nasty and well - tacked on in a very stupid 'let's appeal to the current gun-toting smack my @#%$ up generation' kind of way.

With all due respect Spontaneous, you are wrong.

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But these were fantasy weapons - Laser guns, rocket launchers and cutesy cannons.

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Sonic 2: I believe there were chicken robot stylized gattling guns at Sonic.

Soinc Adventure: Cops fired REAL guns at Chaos. You can see the bullets fall to the ground afterwards.

Sonic Adventure 2: Not only does GUN utilize repeating guns that fire real bullets, but we know for a fact that Maria Robotnik was shot to death. The sound accompanying the act was clearly created by a realistic gun.

Sonic Heros: Omega uses rather realistic bullets during some of his attacks. He obviously has some built in guns other then "Lasers".

So guns are not a foreign concept to the Sonic world. What's more, if Team Dark fired "Real Bullets" why can't a Solo Shadow fire them as well.

And I'll state once more, it's obviously more then your average gun.

(As for the dialogue, I simply meant that a most basic nod to him having it in the first place would satisfy me. I should hope that the game wouldn't open with him taking pot shots in the park for no reason)

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As for guns in the Sonic series, yes - this is technically true. But these were fantasy weapons - Laser guns, rocket launchers and cutesy cannons. But this, these are models of real guns, pistols, sub automatic machine guns - not comical and fictional weaponry that causes things to explode in a puff of smoke, but based on real weaponry that punches holes in flesh - these are things that are horribly out of place in a Sonic/Sonic derived game. It just looks cheap and nasty and well - tacked on in a very stupid 'let's appeal to the current gun-toting smack my @#%$ up generation' kind of way.

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Agreed. And no matter how they explain it, it still doesn't change the fact that Shadow looks ridiculous running around with a gun, especially a realistic one.

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Sonic 2: I believe there were chicken robot stylized gattling guns at Sonic.

Soinc Adventure: Cops fired REAL guns at Chaos. You can see the bullets fall to the ground afterwards.

Sonic Adventure 2: Not only does GUN utilize repeating guns that fire real bullets, but we know for a fact that Maria Robotnik was shot to death. The sound accompanying the act was clearly created by a realistic gun.

Sonic Heros: Omega uses rather realistic bullets during some of his attacks. He obviously has some built in guns other then "Lasers".

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The Sonic 2 robots fired eggs. It made sense for the police force to have guns and they were non-playable and only appeared in a cut-scene. It makes sense for G.U.N. troups to have real guns, they were non-playable, we never actually saw them and Maria (who we had not known prior to her death) was shot off screen. All of the guns on the robots and such looked like fantasy weapons and were portrayed as such, it also made sense for robots and airships to have such weaponry. They weren't being used as gratuitous fashion accessories in an attempt to market the game at an audience the series was never designed for.

...Good god. Stop this now SEGA, just...stop it.

I'll probably make a more detailed criticism of this once my dail-up connection gets this trailer downloaded.

It just doesn't make sense why they'd make a Shadow spinoff, not to mention one with guns, a probable teen rating, going against everything Sonic the Hedgehog, and possibly SEGA have done before. I know Shadow has a huge fanbase, but...It really doesn't add up the way I look at it...

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It just doesn't make sense why they'd make a Shadow spinoff

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Because many people, myself included, wanted one.

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not to mention one with guns,

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We shall see won't we? Anyways, it was a gun that took Maria away from him. They aren't a foreign concept to him.

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a probable teen rating,

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As long as he doesn't kill a living being (as we have yet to see any evidence of of it), there will be no problem.

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going against everything Sonic the Hedgehog

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Which is why he's probably not in this game.

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I know Shadow has a huge fanbase,

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Yes, he does.

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It really doesn't add up the way I look at it

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Look at it like this: Lots of Shadow Fans = A, Lots of Sonic Fans that complain heroes was either too light of plot, or "too kiddy" = B.

A+B= Target audience willing to by a darker, Shadow based game.

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They weren't being used as gratuitous fashion accessories in an attempt to market the game at an audience the series was never designed for.

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But that audience wants it, and many of you people that dislike the game hate Shadow anyway. So I ask you this: Why not have Shadow go his own way? This is not Sonic Adventure 3, or a direct sequel to Sonic Advance. It's his own side story. If you don't like it, and refuse to play it based on your own prejudices, that's fine. If Shadow already represented things best left out of the "Cutesey" Sonic world, why not let the character live on in his own series?

Some of us want more Shadow, and we are getting it. Best of all, we are getting it in our own franchise that won't "harm" the original. Is that so bad?

Shadow is a Sonic character. Even if a Shadow franchise is built up (which I sincerely doubt) it'd still be derived from the Sonic franchise, an all ages franchise. He'd still be in the "Sonic World" and it would still be heavily identified as a Sonic spinoff. The beginning of the trailer was all about Shadow being a spinoff of the Sonic franchise, anyone who recognises Sonic the Hedgehog would be able to realise that there's a connection with one glance at Shadow the Hedgehog.

I do not object to a Shadow game, I object to the way the image of the character and series is being handled for this game.

By your reasoning it would also be wise for Cartoon Network to make a Powerpuff Girls spinoff Buttercup the Crack Whore.

Ok, I remember seeing that trailer, it didn't fully download there so I went to GS and watched a bit of it, but I'm not sure if I remember it well, but I'll try to give my impressions of it so far...

Hmm, I don't know what to say. I'm not much of a fan of Shadow (Partially because he's a new character) but this seems like a decent concept as long as they pull it off well. (Which isn't likely to happen...) I don't know how they'll be able to make us aim the gun and run at the same time (Perhaps it will be almost done Gamma-style with the exception of the laser lock on and the inclusion of the Sonic Heroes style wall jump and homing attack and grinding, ect...?) but maybe we'll have to wait for the next E3 to know more on that...

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We shall see won't we? Anyways, it was a gun that took Maria away from him. They aren't a foreign concept to him.

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But he doesn't *need* guns to attack. He can do it perfectly well on his own.

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I do not object to a Shadow game, I object to the way the image of the character and series is being handled for this game.

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You mean Shadow, the hedgehog who blew up an entire prison complex, possibly killing tens, if not hundreds? You mean Shadow, who was perfectly happy to leave his team-mate to die in the blast except for the fact she had the three things he needed to blow up the moon, never mind the planet?

You mean Shadow, the hedgehog who on his encounter with Sonic in Heroes, immediately tried to kill him and makes frequent reference to killing Sonic, never mind the rest of the planet?

Yeah, Shadow's G-rated, isn't he?

When Life Gives You Lemons, Make Lemonade.

Wonderful. =D

If I was drinking juice I would've spat it up at the choice of co-director.

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I can't help but wonder if people felt that when the Sonic Adventure games took over the classics. (EDIT: The 'step beyond the real Sonic games we've come to know and love'... not the big about the angst part >.>; )

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What was so different about the Adventure games from the classics?

Style-wise, I didn't see much difference. Gameplay-wise, I didn't like fishing or shooting in either game, but I'll admit that Gamma was tolerable for me on the shooting-side. I also hated the "choose a side" aspect of Adventure 2 versus the "choose a character" one. Other than that stuff, I can't think of anything majorly different.

I haven't watched the trailer and I'm not going to as the moment I heard "shooter" I lost interest.

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You mean Shadow, the hedgehog who blew up an entire prison complex, possibly killing tens, if not hundreds? You mean Shadow, who was perfectly happy to leave his team-mate to die in the blast except for the fact she had the three things he needed to blow up the moon, never mind the planet?

You mean Shadow, the hedgehog who on his encounter with Sonic in Heroes, immediately tried to kill him and makes frequent reference to killing Sonic, never mind the rest of the planet?

Yeah, Shadow's G-rated, isn't he?

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Yes, because whether or not something is "G-rated" depends on presentation, not the subject matter.

I guess when it comes down to it, the reason this argument exists is because of how fandom works. If you were there in the beginning, grew up and played Sonic 1 and absorbed all of the cutesy merchandise and the animals and fantastical surroundings then thats what defined you as a fan. For people like that, SA1's sudden human city was quite a jolt and SA2 even more so. Heroes however depicted a return to 'roots', and even though it was buggy as hell and so rushed, it looked promising in that many took it as a 'transitionary game'. That the next game was going to take all this on board and finally realise a well polished Sonic game in 3d.

However, those fans have just been shot in the face quite literally by a game with so little original games design behind its concept and so....removed from what the Sonic series started out as that its actually quite painful. To add insult to injury they SHOW CLIPS of ALL THE GAMES WE ENJOYED UP TO THIS POINT! Putting classics such as Sonic CD and then showing bullet holes appear in them is just....a metaphor for what it really is!

However of course, us ancient old crones that grew up with Sonic when he started aren't the only fans anymore. Theres the Sonic Adventure generation, when Sonic got 're-invented'. And with that comes the new characters, such as Shadow. Yes, it must be great that a character you like and are intrigued by has his own breathing space and exclusive plot. But imagine if this game was a really good one focussing on what Shadow is already, not tacking on what is so obviously a misplaced gimmick of guns. Shadow doesnt need to use guns. He's THE ULTIMATE LIFEFORM supposedly. If he was MORE ULTIMATE WITH A GUN, then he would have been created with a gun-arm! But he wasn't! He utilises the power of the chaos emeralds as 'the ultimate power'. He doesnt cradle a desert eagle and say "it all starts with this....a generic gun of ultimate power!"

You can argue the point that maybe months of polish will turn this game around, but the fundamental game design behind it is flawed, clumsy, and based on a now 7 year old game engine thats really REALLY showing its age.

Also, like it or not, but graphics really are a massive selling point. Heroes just about got away with some really standard graphics as it had vibrantly coloured levels and locations you won't find in other games. This game doesnt have that in its rosta. The ONLY way this game is standing out if at all is "Oh its Sonic's evil twin with a gun!". Thats it, thats the broken down everyman in the street analysis.

But things have moved on I guess since Sonic first did a loop the loop in Green Hill Zone. No more Ohshima design, no more level design from the guy that hopped ship to Naughty Dog, and hell, no more Naka as competent programmer. This is Sonic passed onto a 'new generation', and if this is what they come up with when left to their own devices?

Unless Sonic DS is amazing, theres still another GC Sonic to be announced or even a incredible new Sonic game at the next generations launch, Sega really might be screwed if their beloved blue-cash-hog's name is mud and doesnt sell anymore.

Look. I'm not too concerned with the basic premise of Shadow having a gun or how lame the plot's going to be. I'm actually very concerned about gameplay.

See, Sonic had always been about getting from point A to B as quickly as possible in a smooth, streamlined, constantly-flowing method. There wasn't any such thing as forced stopping, and if there was, usually only took a splitsecond to start moving again in the proper direction. Even that wasn't always that common; more often they'd use ramps and curves to change your direction without changing your speed. If they DID change your speed, then usually it was easy enough to keep moving at a fair pace, and it wouldn't be too long before you could run again.

Then Heroes came. To complete a level, you had to constantly STOP, THINK as to what you wanted, SWITCH to the appropriate character (which often wasn't very reliable; switching to the wrong character abound), and THEN you could act upon it. This added a constant one, two, maybe three-second delay in the action, and to make matters worse, some of these other characters were slow as all heck. Making matters worse, more often than not the level included several points where you just couldn't go on until you hunted down and maimed every last robot. Any sense of flow that was in the game had more or less been obliterated.

My main greivance is that Shadow the Hedgehog doesn't look to improve on that very much. Now, thank God you don't have to SWITCH, so there is SOME improvement, but you still have to STOP and SHOOT the enemies when it'd be so much more smooth to just run by or attack them with your Homing Attack. The flow has been remedied slightly, but it's nowhere near back.

And there is the dillema. I've found the games that players dislike the most in the Sonic series generally have very, very bad flow. 3D Blast: Flickies' Island? You had to hunt down five robots and kill them before you'd be allowed to move on, as opposed to just moving on. Shuffle? What "flow" does a board game have, particularly one hampered by long load times and excessively tough AI? Adventure 2? ...er, actually that one I'm not so sure about, since I found flow in it, but I guess the mechs were too clunky to flow as well as they could, and hunting was just too annoying to flow well. Advance 2? It attempts flow, but it's hard to flow when level design is throwing you into spikes constantly, expecting you to anticipate them coming a split-second before you hit.

Another problem is the control scheme. Sonic Team <3s the B button. It <3s the B button too much. It's been trying to jam Spin Dash, shoot, bounce, Light Dash, somersault, magic hands, picking things up, and making a ham sandwich all onto the same B button. It's overkill. It's hard to use. You do the wrong move when you want to do something else entirely. This might have been fixed, but it's not entirely likely.

Graphics... eh, I want to say that this shouldn't matter, but yeesh, Shadow's gun is visibly clipping the floor in that opening shot. It's like they're not even trying. The levels themselves aren't TOO shabby, but you could add a whole lot more extra details to it. I also would like to know what's up with the camera this time; I haven't had TOO much problems with it, but others have, and it hasn't been getting enough attention. Is it fixed this time?

Sound: I usually like Sonic music, but this was unmemorable at best. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention. I dunno.

I'll admit, some of these I'm assuming for, and assuming makes an a- ...well, you know. But, they're not exactly bad assumptions to make, since Sonic Team has shown signs of getting lazy. Liscensing their franchises off to other developers (who, IMO, have a better grasp of what makes a good Sonic game than they themselves do). Not even bothering to update their games outside of an improved (and as of such woefully unstable) framerate and a few extra missions, yet being so daring as to call it a "Director's Cut". To rerelease a fairly new compilation of games, and not even bother adding in all the games to it (and not even choosing the better of the bunch out of the few they DID add; Sonic Blast prolly shouldn't have been in Mega Collection Plus over Triple Trouble or Tails Adventures). To not fix a bad camera that's been around for six years, so that you can control every aspect of it like the personally far superior camera in Super Mario Sunshine or The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. How can these things make the cut when there are so many problems with them?...

So it's really not a big deal about Shadow having a silly premise. Certainly, that plays a factor, but that's not the big issue. The big issue is that there are major problems with the gameplay, and the video is hinting at nothing really being changed.

And yes, I've always been a big Sonic Team proponent... but I'm having second thoughts. I don't want to put the blame on Sega as a whole, though. It's not Yu Suzuki's fault Yuji Naka doesn't pay enough attention to what he's letting through, or that Takeshi Iizuka has been directing games that are so problematic; Suzuki isn't even PART of Sonic Team, why should he take the blame too?

Could we consider Iizuka the Uwe Boll of gaming? Maybe, maybe not. Probably way too harsh, but it's the same kind of thing: creating products with well-known and well-liked franchises that are generally accepted to be not-so-hot (or in Boll's case, utter crap; in some people's minds, Iizuka's case too), whilst thinking that they're doing us a service.

*sigh* If only I knew how to work/actually had the Source SDK...

And to conclude, if you want to look forward, please, do! Go ahead, openly admit it. If somebody want to flame your rear end for actually wanting to like it, it won't go unnoticed. I just feel very pessimistic about it. But hey, as a lot of people learned with Heroes, better to look down on something and be surprised that it's not all that bad than to be overly optimistic and find out it's not all that fun (well, in their opinion).

Haa, ha, ha, ha, ha, PSX, I aplaude you...or I would if I had an applauding smiley ^_^;...no, wait I found one,

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Shadow is a Sonic character. Even if a Shadow franchise is built up (which I sincerely doubt) it'd still be derived from the Sonic franchise, an all ages franchise.hr>

Look at Conker... started out in Diddy Kong, E rated, then did that little E rated gameboy game, then did 2 M rated games that rly pushed the shock value

thats an MP5 submachine gun

Looking at those screenshots and the video, I'd have to say ShTH is borrowing more elements from Parasite Eve rather than Jak or Ratchet or DMC. Doesn't it look like a bunch of Chaos creatures threatening to displace normal life?

Plus when I saw that Shadow poster, I got all tingley. Seriously looking forward to this one.

-Shakudo-

C&P from the hallowed halls of the Penny Arcade forums:
CONSUMERS: Your new Sonic games are weird and clumsy. They are boring and lack the classic, fast-paced feel of old Sonic games. The central Sonic gameplay does not receive enough development and polish, and too much of the game time and emphasis is spent on the extraneous zoo of "gimmick" peripheral characters, the usage of whom always feels like poorly-conceived minigames.

SEGA: Wow, what will we do. Wait, I know, let's make an entire game based around one of the peripheral characters. Ooh, and we'll give him superpowers! And a gun!
~mcc

Hey guys! I'm Jay and this hot-topic just really pushed me into actually getting an account here, and posting my thoughts and opinions on regards to this videogame: Shadow the Hedgehog.

Now am I a newbie? Absolutely not; I have actually been a dedicated and devoted Sonic fan since the release of Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and I have followed it and played the majority of the released games ever since! But a newbie here, yeah I am ..

Anyways, I am also a dedicated worker who is making his way to becoming a committed Game Designer.

Think about it. Would Jak and all these games exist without the hedgehog? There could be a possibility of a "no".

Therefore: I know quite a bit on the Gaming Market and I know quite a bit about that revolutionary hedgehog, Sonic!

So off we go!

For one thing, I have been reading quite a bit of responses on the subject of "rip-offs".

Thanks, that's all I have to say!

Except for:

1)

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Don't judge a book by its cover.

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and

2)

Just give it a shot, don't bypass it! It'll be fun, and I trust it'll rate an 8, or higher. It's not the final product, and you have absolutely no complete data on it, nor a real long game-play footage demo ... so just relax, and be happy that we're actually falling back into the old-school world where you're just one guy, going through an awesome fast-paced fluid adventure.

Remember, this is an OPINION. All humans naturally hold their own thoughts, and not all of them can be altered. If you guys, who are trying, really want to alter some of these opinions, then you'll have to really have some persuasive techniques in your writings, and some back-up information. I am just stating my own opinion though, I am NOT trying to change ANYONE's opinion, regardless of how I said some things.

Thank you, again!
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Deus (G.O.D.)
god.of.design@gmail.com

It's not a hoax.

That would be absolutely STUPID to do a hoax in such an event.

Yet I am more interested in this week's Game Developer's conference!
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Deus (G.O.D.)
god.of.design@gmail.com

Well, looked at the trailer a half-dozen more times. The two guages at the top have nothing to do with health. During the one part that Shadow was flying the blue one was decreasing steadily. Then when he busted out that chaos explosion I saw the red one deplete itself. So at least rings still equal health in the new game.

-Shakudo-

In case this hasn't been mentioned, no it is not just on ps2. Hence IGN having it as a top story on the gamecube page for ign.

I have a logical estimation.

There exists two gauges: a blue one, and a red one.

The blue gauge is powered up from power rings. Once it is filled, you will be enabled to press a button in order to temporarily blast with intense speeds.

The red gauge is powered from doing an action, like hitting an enemy or something. Once it is filled, you'll be enabled to press a button to do some type of crazed blast attack. I don't know of any of Shadow's moves, guesses?

This is just a guess, not actual data. But it sounds pretty possible to me.

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Deus (G.O.D.)
god.of.design@gmail.com

Actually I just noticed the blue guage was building up as Shadow was comboing multiple homing attacks on the flying creatures. Couldn't see the red one building up with anything, though.

-Shakudo-

Hm .. then perhaps the opposite of what I said.

Ah well, only guesses from here on out.

You know, I don't think I would put it past Shadow to use a gun. It seems to fit with his psychotic, self-righteous nature. However I had just imagined him as having all these energy based powers. Sonic Battle showed him with glowing fists teleporting all over shooting blasts of light.

It just seems weird for someone with such power to use something so mundane as a gun. Guns are boring.

But still I don't think he's beyond vaporizing a soldier and snatching up his gun to use against that soldier's comrades.

Whatever his motivation, he would most certainly feel justified so he would use what ever means he deemed necessary. Dude has issues. Gun, chaos control, giant laser on a space station ... all just a means to the ends.

That's the best kind of villain. The kind that thinks what he's doing is right.

To be honest Eggman, Shadow and Rouge are the only ones they could make a fresh new game about in a way.

Tails, has built and driven all the new stuff he needs to and we know about his past.

Knuckles is too aloof and bland to do anything but fetch quests, I mean other than the Master Emerald being stolen and/or shattered, what would get him off his tail and do something? Of course the M,E, did blow up for whatever reason in Sonic Battle didn't it?

Sonic is just a care free guy that runs fast and has no need for a past. A past would be looking back and that aint his style... We've tapped that well as deep as we could, haven't we?

The dark guys are the only ones left with any real mystique about them. Give them a chance to set the stage for the next big Sonic, Tails and Knuckles adventure. Let the anti-heroes give us a reason to give a darn again.

There were some points in the video where I don't think I saw Shadow hold a gun. If my eyes were correct, then the following could be true:

+ You CAN choose to be "Evil" or "Good" (I doubt it, even though it looks like that's how it'll be) and the Evil Shadow uses a gun throughout the game.

+ You will not use the gun till later in the game.

+ The gun isn't always in the hand of Shadow. Sometimes it might be safely stored with a belt or something.

With a Knuckles spin-off, to reply to your text again, of course emeralds will be involved.

In fact, the game could really tell everything about the emeralds, and have a lot involved with the use of them. And not just emeralds, but Super Emeralds, and the use of the Master Emerald's own energy.

I see a LOT of potiental for a Knuckles spin-off ...

Please use the edit button; we don't like double-posting.

On a sidenote, welcome.

Deus of Design, you rock. I value your opinion and your idea of just waiting and seeing what the game is like, something not everyone appears to prefer doing.

Personally, I've got nothing left to say in this thread. I'm going to wait for the game, play it and THEN present my opinions. Until then, so long. ^^

I understand that waiting for a game before judging it is always the right idea, however that movie is just Sonic Heroes without the extra characters and with a gun, graphically it's identical, the gameplay looks the same, the bouncing off of robots is the same, the levels look akin to alot of the stages you see in SA2 and Sonic Heroes.

From that video I can confidentally say that they are using Sonic Heroes engine and just working a new game from it, even using the same Shadow model with an extra bit which looks so alien that you can see that the model was never designed to factor it in.

It's just cheap as heck. SA2 deviated majorly from SA1's style and physics, everything was redesigned. Sonic Heroes was similar to SA2 but too unique to call a copy. That video is Sonic Heroes without extra characters and with a gun. It is, you can see it.

It's sheer laziness for them to do that, and it'll be the first time in a long time that Sega have gone two games in a row without altering the system.

As crazy as the idea of Shadow having a gun may seem and the gameplay style being similar to Heroes design without all the Teams and Shadow with a gun I won't pass any judgement until I actually get a chance to play the game myself.

From the looks of things, it's still in it's early development. Perhaps they can still change the design of this game while they still can. A bit of wishful thinking. Really, I have no problem if it plays like anyother Sonic game, as long as they get it right this time.

Sonic 2 pretty much played like Sonic 1 with a few added editions, having the option of playing as Super Sonic, for example. No one complained, because it added on to the original formula and made it even better. Hopefully they can do this again in their latest game.

So for now I think I'll stay neutral.

Since almost everyone is hating the idea of this game it would make a great irony if it did turn out good in the end. It would be the exact opposite of Sonic Heroes. XP

You know, I don't think I would put it past Shadow to use a gun. It seems to fit with his psychotic, self-righteous nature

Please give evidence that Shadow is psychotic. As far as I can see, he isn't. He's an emotionally frail little kitten in a highly destructive body, without inclination toward using his powers for destructive purposes.

From the looks of things, it's still in it's early development. Perhaps they can still change the design of this game while they still can.

They have to have it produced and distributed within 9 months. I'd say they're pretty late in development now, at least as far in development as Heroes was this time two years ago, and there are very very few differences between the E3 Demo and the final release, besides lack of voices.

I tell you what though. If Sega do something that they've never done before, which is iron out the bugs in a crappy game engine (ie, when they updated SA1/2), I'll praise the game. It's that simple.

If they iron out the flaws in Heroes' engine, they have my blessings to re-use it.

Quote from Craig Bayfield:

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I tell you what though. If Sega do something that they've never done before, which is iron out the bugs in a crappy game engine (ie, when they updated SA1/2), I'll praise the game. It's that simple.

If they iron out the flaws in Heroes' engine, they have my blessings to re-use it.

---

I would certainly agree there (regardless on the game) but, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Heroes's game engine an update on SA2's engine or is it a complete new engine for Heroes?

I withhold judgement on this game. Lately, many games that have received a poor appraisal in the beginning ended up being good games after release (note: there are a few exeptions here and there).

You know, I don't think I would put it past Shadow to use a gun. It seems to fit with his psychotic, self-righteous nature

Please give evidence that Shadow is psychotic. As far as I can see, he isn't. He's an emotionally frail little kitten in a highly destructive body, without inclination toward using his powers for destructive purposes.

Shadow's hardly sane, though, and he's gone through no less than three mood changes in three games. In SA2, he was vicious, vengeful, ruthless with just a touch of the sadistic about him, and the only reason he stopped was because Amy triggered his failsafe. And then he went and tried to kill himself.

In Heroes, he was determined, but his amnesia left him incredibly vulnerable. By time Battle takes place, Shadow has regained his memories, and he's learned about the entirety of what Project: Shadow entailed. He's almost in a state of mourning, and his determination is back in a different form. He's still slightly suicidal and obsessed with his own destruction.

If this game takes place after Battle, it's highly possible that Shadow has again had a change of mind, and decided (quite rightly) that GUN were the ones who have wronged him, and therefore, he's going to bring them down.

The method of how he does so, however, might be the thing that changes the gameplay.

((and as for the Chaos-beasties, this is the game that has a 30-foot long lizard. Think about i

correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Heroes's game engine an update on SA2's engine or is it a complete new engine for Heroes?

I'm not sure on that, but regardless. Sonic Heroes is the only Sonic game which they have a working engine for on the PS2, which this game is heavily rumoured to be coming out on.

If they took the time and effort to make Sonic Adventure 2 compatible with the PS2, they would have released it.

Quote:

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He's an emotionally frail little kitten in a highly destructive body, without inclination toward using his powers for destructive purposes.

---

Maybe that's why he chooses to use firearms: he's afraid to utilize his own powers. Or at least that's how he's being portrayed now.

Regardless, it still doesn't make sense-- seeing him unleash that Chaos bomb negates that little theory to some degree. Perhaps... perhaps it ties into the "Hero", "Villain" choice: the more he relies on his own powers, the more he becomes that "Weapon of War" he's so against in Battle. As if tapping his own strengths could potentially alter his thinking, making him more dangerous.

Is there really any justification for the gun, though? Huh.

I'd give enough benefit of doubt to say it'll be justified, even in an unsatisfying manner.

Nothing can really be said for certain until we know what's going on with the Sonic Heroes/Sonic Battle Shadow's, they might be the same, they might be different, it might be ignored completely. We'll not know until the game comes out.

Infact, just thinking of all the juicy plots being tied up makes me remember that I don't give a damn about gameplay and enjoyed Shadow's involvement in Sonic Battle, but not his character, just the plots which were born of him.

...damn it...

I want this game now!

Shadow appeared to be weak and appeared to be dating Rouge in Battle, so it looks like she's gone off Knuckles and he's gone off Sonic.

I must get round to fighting Shadow's level again.

I still have the nagging feeling it's all a clever hoax though.

Come to think of it, this could be set in between Sonic Heroes and Battle, if it were, it could explain how he got some of his memories back or be the reasoning behind the gun. Just a thought.

For the upteenth time

SEGA UNVEILED THIS AT THE "WALK OF GAME" AWARD CEREMONY LAST WEEK! IT IS NOT A HOAX.

Also, there is nothing in Sonic Battle which implies Rouge and Shadow, that's just wishful thinking. He was just unconcious and Rouge helped him back to his feet.

*shrugs*

You're probably right Craig, I mean why would a hot guy like shadow go for a vain whore like Rouge?

*anonymous people start to beat Harley*

Ow! Stop that! I mean, yeah, I just didn't read those earlier posts, either that or I forgot what they said.