Holy crap! Shadow looks awesome.
You're... you're joking, right? That render looks like a parody of an action movie poster.

You know what? They could totally make this a good game if it were a scathing parody of the kind of misplaced angst and stilted drama we're complaining about. All it has to do is not take itself seriously...

I think games made for Everyone usually have more potential then games that tend to fall in Mature or Teen categories. Those games generally strive to reach out to the OMG BLOOD-n'-GORE!!!11!1 demographic, and therefore convult themselves into something less flattering than if they had not.
Have you played Half-Life 2, World of Warcraft, Doom 3, Guild Wars, Sims 2, UT2004, Tekken 5, or any of the dozens of other T- or M-rated games that have come out in the last few months that look absolutely amazing and aren't just all about blood and gore?

Craig - yeah, it's amazing how they can dedicate two pages to an interview thats tells us absolutely nothing.

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-Page 4 has shots of the enemies, and one of the bosses, apparently - a strange cycloptic creature. Could this be an alien invasion of some sort? They sure as hell aren't 'mobians'.

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I'm pretty sure it was established earlier in this board that there is indeed the cliche "alien invasion with hopes of taking over the world" idea thrown into this game.

On another note, the levels look cool from those screenshots, in my opinion. Maybe I'm being impractical by saying this, but it would be awesome if the levels were not all entirely linear, and you could actually explore while progressing. And by "explore" I don't mean collecting ten identical items.

I'm trying to be open-minded about this game in general. I don't want to say it looks bad or good, because screenshots and that "interview" can't demonstrate the game's abilities. Only time, and E3, will tell.

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I was pointing out my PERSONAL distaste for the way the style was used in Wind Waker,

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I love the graphical style of WW, but not because the design is different from all the other Zelda games. It did present something new to the table, however, this was presented in a very unique way that enhanced the whole gaming experience.

Cell-shading added more "life" to the game. While not having the most realistic graphics around, the game very well felt alive, in a sense. Right down to the graphics, environments, and even Link himself. He suited himself well to this new style, as does the Link in the new Zelda game for the GC. Both games look equally beautiful in their own rights.

Gimmick or not, when done right, cell-shading can look amazing.

I'm not saying all T- or M-rated games convult themselves into dog feces. Half-Life 2 may have been the greatest gaming experience ever, Doom 3 was amazing, the Sims 2 is my new best friend, Resident Evil 4, the Metal Gear Solids, and Far Cry are all hugely astounding games, just to name a few. These are their own games that did not put on false airs only to appease a grubby preteen blood-n'-gore demographic. However, I can't help but feel that some games flaunt their level of "maturity" so much that the game becomes something it was truly not intended to be. Most E-games do not suffer this.

I really wish that Shadow would spoof overacted action movies. Right down to a scene where he runs from an explosion with a half-naked bikini toting supermodel in his arms.

I have to agree with some of you guys. at first i was uneasy with that CG poster. it looked like a clay figure/action figure. but after seeing it for awhile (and examining it) i've grown a strong liking to it.

HERE IS MY ARTISTIC DISCOVERIES *shot*:
believe it or not, but this that is actually what Shadow would probably look like in real life. just like in the Heroes CG artwork, you see the lines of the quills. this makes them look well groomed. this one in particular also gives you the fuzzy outline sense that makes it seem more realistic. i also think that i see 2 pieces of lint in his quills. i think that's just the scanning though. the rings don't look golden. they look more like plastic for some reason. but you can see the reflection of his hover shoe on one of them. the fur on his chest looks real. we all know that that's how it would look like in real life. his eyes have this clear image to them that makes it look sorta real, but the pupils are alittle too black to be real...i think...maybe not. his nose has a bumpy texture to it. just like a dog.

now the only thing that turned me off (no, not THAT way! ) was his hands. they look fake/clay-like. but then i realized what they were getting at. the way the characters hands are drawn in the official artwork looks similar to that (here's an example: ssrg.shadowsoft-games.com...nicsan.png ).
i see why they did that, but they still shoulda made has hands more realistic, IMO.

also, believe it or not, this is the same artwork design as that promo poster. they only look different because in the promo poster, it was night/evening and that added a bright glow which made him look different than this one. if you were to take away the night/evening background, the city and the glow, that Shadow picture would look similar to this one in design style. so this all tells us that this will be the official art style.

None of those mature games steamed from a series marketted towards 6-12 year olds though. They were mature games for mature gamers.

Trying to sell something to another audience never works, seriously, look around all medias and notice the drastic failures that have come from taking something that was good and redesigning it for a new market. All I have to do is mention any cartoons made from movies such as (but not limited to): Beetlejuice, The Mask, Ace Ventura, Robocop, Godzilla and so on and such forth, note that they were all really decent movies (well... they're all watchable movies, and there's a damn Burton classic in there, stop whining!) which appealed mainly to teens and young adults, one of which was an 18 rated movie, one was 15 and the others were PG. The cartoon series' took what was funny about the comedy ones, and turned it into slapstick childish fun. BAD MOVE! Change of formula just made the shows silly and unbareably... Action tamed for kids (for heavens sake, they had Godzilla as a helping hand for the science git!), it just doesn't work.

Likewise, trying to make something for kids appeal to adults just loses something in the formula update. I'm too lazy to think of specific examples, so feel free to poke me, especially as this is the point I'm resting my entire arguement on, and like a complete fool I didn't research.

Selling Shadow as an entirely new game wont work, they're doing this solely to make gamers not factored into the Sonic fandom or demographic join the series, it's the only reason they didn't make this an original game (read the interview on the previous page), this, like all other updates and major formula reworkings will IMITATE maturity, and fail. Because Sonic is for kids. Giving a character a gun and black fur doesn't make it any less of a kiddie game.

I dunno Craig, I think this could work if Shadow is given a sidekick Godzuki style. =P

heh...that maybe be true.

Shadow and his faithful sidekick... Shade the Threetoed Sloth! Now THAT would be an odd couple. X3

Since I'm lazy and I'm rather late in this discussion (no way am I gonna read 46 pages), I'll just copy and paste what I wrote on my devart journal on my opinion of this (with some slight edit for the young'uns ) Careful, HEAVY sarcasm and anger:

"A Shadow game. NO, WAIT. Not JUST a Shadow game, a Shadow game with GUNS! RANT MODE!!! He has a GUN! A GUN! I swear, when I first saw that in the latest EGM and read the article pertaining to it, I sat for a GOOD 20 minutes, denying myself that this was all a sick joke, that EGM had used a leftover April's Fool. I knew Shadow would get a game, but I wasn't aware he'd have a gun. After further reading and getting back to reality, I am now crying a river of shame. I mean, it's bad enough Angst McGothic is getting his own game, but with a GUN!!?!?!?!!

I don't have anything against mature games, but YOU CAN turn a cute game intended for kid's and make it more mature WITHOUT having to make it extreme and badassed. This is just sad. Sega just gave me even MORE reasons to hate Shadow."
~Neo

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I mean, it's bad enough Angst McGothic is getting his own game, but with a GUN!!?!?!?!!

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Then here's a quick recap.

The gun is not the only weapon. He picks up swords and other contraptions.

The gun is not crucial to the gameplay. In fact, if you rely on the gun too much, you will lose.

As far as I can see, there is no XTREEM crap, the basic run, jump, collect rings formula remains unchanged. The only element added is the environment being much more interactive, and the guns keep you from getting up close and personal with every crumbling wall in the game.

And it's not angst. Angst implies that he feels sorry for himself all the time. Angst doesn't let you play though 10 levels of a game with your name on it.

None of this is meant to try and sway your opinion, obviously. Just letting you know what everyone's talked about before. (Oh, and don't worry; eveyone agrees with you anyway.)

-Shakudo-

"50,000 hits, baby! Whoo!"

Then here's a quick recap.

The gun is not crucial to the gameplay. In fact, if you rely on the gun too much, you will lose.

46 pages, two months away from comp, wouldn't be able to read all that. No time, just laziness and busy...ness.

As far as I can see, there is no XTREEM crap, the basic run, jump, collect rings formula remains unchanged. The only element added is the environment being much more interactive, and the guns keep you from getting up close and personal with every crumbling wall in the game.

It's just the recent waves of cutesy platformers using guns and such as their main weapon now and making it more "edgier". It doesn't matter, to me, this feels too "extreme" for me. It's just my view at the current moment.

I won't get started on this one,it'll take too long to explain...b]

None of this is meant to try and sway your opinion, obviously. Just letting you know what everyone's talked about before. (Oh, and don't worry; eveyone agrees with you anyw*shurgs* Yea, maybe (again, won't bother reading 46 pages), but then again, I shouldn't care either since I'm more then likely not gonna play this game.
~Neo

Wow! For some reason I seem to be the only one who's getting pumped about this game. No one's on my band-wagon. I don't care though..i'm glad this game is in producyion...and honestly I don't see why everyone's so skeptical. *thinks back to Heroes* Ok forget that previous sentence. lol Come E3 ;however, I won't bother with this game anymore. I'm gonna wait until release..I want total surprise(ok, so not total but you catch my drift). Besides there's supposed to be more Sonic stuff at E3 anyway. Like that DS title and maybe Gems Collection and that alledged other Sonic title. Oh yea i'll leave shadow alone until it comes out. I think I can do that.

It's just the recent waves of cutesy platformers using guns and such as their main weapon now and making it more "edgier". It doesn't matter, to me, this feels too "extreme" for me. It's just my view at the current moment.

I can't help but notice you hate the visual oxymoron of a cute fantasy character with a realistic gun. I believe every one hates the gun itself, and couldn't care less whether Shadow get's a game or not.

I simply view the gun as one of those evil marketting gimmicks to attract new customers to something that doesn't actually need them. Sonic still sells relatively modest, so a gimmick is unnecessary. There's always a chance that it repulses customers too, and let's not forget that, even with Dante, Viewtiful Joe for the PS2 sold horribly.

I can't help but notice you hate the visual oxymoron of a cute fantasy character with a realistic gun.

*Blink* Isn't an oxymoron two words used together in a description which contradict eachother, like say PACIFIST CRUSH, or Innocent Children.

I still think it'd be cool to have the gun be like the mask in Splatterhouse games, whispering into your ear, corrupting your soul, making you do horrible things

Then, as they drag Shadow into an asylum he screams "NOOOO! IT'S NOT ME!!! IT'S THE GUN! IT'S THE GUN! YOU THINK I'M CRAZY! BUT I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO'S SANE AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

There's always a chance that it repulses customers too, and let's not forget that, even with Dante, Viewtiful Joe for the PS2 sold horribly.

Didn't stop me from buying that game, it's be the fun.
~Neo

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Wow! For some reason I seem to be the only one who's getting pumped about this game. No one's on my band-wagon

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Bad Hyper! Generalizations are bad for you! I'll try this game out because...

A. It's a Sonic game.
B. I play every Sonic game
C. It actually looks interesting
D. I like to be different...

...shutting up now...

*Blink* Isn't an oxymoron two words used together in a description which contradict eachother, like say PACIFIST CRUSH, or Innocent Children.

Yeah, it's a comparison to an oxymoron, the gun in Shadows hand, hence I said visual one, I'm comparing a something I can see to an oxymoron. "FANTASY REALISM" Do you get it?

Yay Torn's gonna check it out. *Gives *

What's with your av? Is Joe trying to eat that poor little girl? O_o

Rob, is Joe trying to eat that little girl?

No, Blue Jr. is not a girl and no, it just looks like Joe is eating him.

Silly Hyper. EVERYONE is going to check it out, can you imagine the MOBIUS FORUM missing out on a game to test out their "SEGA HATE US AND WANT US TO DIE OF NOSTALGIA" rants?!

If we don't play the game, how are we expected to complain about it.

*Looks at the previous 46 pages*

...If we don't play the game, how are we expected to complain about it... umm... more than we already are.

Yeah, Craig.

You think maybe this is what Sega wanted? It's a good way to sell a game.

Hahaha I got you Craig. I just do't believe we have 7 flippin' months. Man I don't think I can hold out. That big worm whatever dude is just one of the bosses...imagine the others that may be in this game. Man...Shadow is haunting my every gaming moment. E3 this year is gonna extend past three days...they're gonna have to go all the way through May. Not that it matters too much...after E3 i'm done with this game. I'm gonna forget it...except for the 7 printed out pictures hanging on my wall. But yea about that article it is really weird how they basically riduculed the entire Sonic Universe. Almost as if they weren't serious about that semi-preview at all. And Shadow on the front cover of NOM...thats almost illegal isn't it?

Oh well it's been done and I think the hype from outsiders(you know those Non-Sonic Obsessors[as myself]) is gonna get pretty big. I wonder what will the commercial for this game be...*thinking back about SA2 commercial and SH commercial* the possibilities are endless. The only thing that gets me is Eggman may not even be in this game. That's actually kinda awesome. Of course Eggy is one of my favs, but if they can make an entire game w/o having to use Eggy the series must be pretty big. I do hope to see some[non-hidden] cameos fromSonic and co. though. No hidden stuff like Big on SA2. Anywho...I gotta get a high capacity floppy so I can save both Shadow trailers and these scans on it to give to a clueless friend. I might need two floppies* because those trailers are insanely huge. Maybe I should look for an actual "CD".

I think it has been said somewhere already that Eggman will be in the game.. as well as..Sonic.. o.o

You're still using floppies? Just kidding! Cool TMNT pic, by the way.

But yeah I can only imagine the commercials for this game:

*alien beams down from ship into the middle of a street*
bang! a stray bullet knocks the aliens laser out of his "hand."
alien looks to see a real life headgehog (like the SA2 commercials) with a gun laying next to him on the ground.
Then random screen shots with the words "HERO OR VILLAIN" flashing across the screen.

Or something more creative, since that sucked. All I know is that HERO OR VILLAIN will be this game's catch phrase for the advertising, but I think we all figured that out by now. I can't wait for E3 though. I have a feeling this board will triple in size after the first day.

Yea I thought it was mentioned before too. Thats a relief. I wonder what purpose will they serve. And yea Ductt I do use Floppies.(Thanks for the TMNT compliment) That's all my school gives out. Talk about cheap. lol But yea I'm gonna hand them out for free and spread the word. I'm gonna tape posters on the walls and everything. I'm gonna spread propanganda, puttting down all other gaming series and glorifying Sonic[Shadow]. It's wrong I know...but it's gonna be hell of alot of fun.

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It's a good way to sell a game.

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Although I foresee most of us RENTING the game since we wouldn't want to risk $50 on a product that looks highly questionable.

*Blink* The way Matthayter makes it look, I thought that people who are truly dedicated and love the game constantly rent it, whereas us UNDERATING FANBOYS WHO RATE GRAPHICS OVER QUALITY!!!! buy.

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The only thing that gets me is Eggman may not even be in this game. That's actually kinda awesome.

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Actually, its been stated in an article that Eggman (and Sonic) will appear in this game. Supposedly you'll be able to choose which side you want to be on, to affect the storyline or gameplay. So you can be against them or with them if you want to.

I thought you'd be be choosing with the aliens or G.U.N. Then again G.U.N. might be with Sonic and aliens w/Eggman. So I guess I could see that. Hmm...this is gonna be interesting I think.

You can decide whether to be with them too or against them, you have a choice. That's all up to you.

Yea, I'll consider renting it, probably not buying it. I mean, even if it isn't all "extreme" or whatever they're doing, I wouldn't buy it mainly because I REALLY REALLY REALLY dislike Shadow...REALLY, So renting/borrowing from friend, whatever.
~Neo

Well, honestly, this is the first time that I'm really excited for E3 because of something OTHER than a new Sonic game (Zelda, to be specific). I'm sure most of you feel the same way. Anyways, I'll check it out, for story purposes. Other than that, this will be the 1st Sonic game that I don't give a damn about.

However, I do like that pic of Shadow in the air, covered with a bright-blue aura around him.

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this is the first time that I'm really excited for E3 because of something OTHER than a new Sonic game (Zelda, to be specific).

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I second that, Shadic. I'm more excited for other titles and systems that will be on display at E3. That being said, I will definitely rent Shadow before even thinking about buying it, which will be a first with a Sonic-related game for me.

I just want to know why everyone seems to hate Shadow.....

I don't hate Shadow. I do think Knuckles was a better attempt as Sonic's nemesis though. He atleast looks different. Shadow is just differently colored, and can't get this quills to stay down. Then again Wario is simply a fatter version of Mario in different colors. Shadow is cool in his own way, I suppose, as long as he doesn't get some random sidekick like a green fox.

frankly, i dont like shadow, because knuckles and metal were already valid*succesful* tries at making an anthesis*correct use?* for sonic. Shadow would have been a better character if he wasnt a hedgehog...imho. frankly anyone could be super fast if they had those hovering shoes like shadow, so it made no sense to bring in *another* anti-hero, and even less sense to have him end up good, just like knucklehead... so lets count the amount of evil rivals turned good/neutral we have...

Knuckles, Chaos, Emerl, Gmel, Shadow, Eggman*sorta*, Gamma, Froggy *sorta*, and you could even concider Metal, who now that he is not working for Robotnik is simply bent on defeating sonic...

the plot is overused, as is the, "I've learned my lesson/lost control of my creation i'll help you, idea."

Good point, Espio. I think that's why the majority of die hard Sonic fans don't like Shadow, he's an overdone plot.
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Really?

I always assumed it was because he was a RECOLOUR OF THE DAMN SUPER SONIC MODEL FROM THE PREVIOUS GAME >.@;

I mean you see how much the Sonic fandom hates recolours right, especially when they are exactly like the hero, but more powerful and "mature" because the person who makes whatever spritecomic it is watched too much DBZ and thinks MATURE!!!! is angst.

I mean EVERYTHING about Shadow reaks of "filfthy crappy fancharacter" and yet the public seem to eat him up. It's sickening.

That said, I suppose the fact that Shadow is the 6th or 7th version of Sonic to appear doesn't help matters.

I always assumed it was because he was a RECOLOUR OF THE DAMN SUPER SONIC MODEL FROM THE PREVIOUS GAME >.@;

Heh, not completely. SA2 models were different from SA ones and Shadow has a few little details that are nothing like Super Sonic such as: smaller eyesocket, different shoes, etc.

And to say Sonic fans hate recolours is not entirely true. A lot of them actually use recolours for their own avatars on forums.

However, I don't like Shadow because everything about him is driven by angst. It's too one-dimensional of a personality. I don't care about his backstory, that's just an excuse for his angst.

Super Sonic from Sonic adventure-

Super Sonic recolour/Shadow* from Sonic adventure 2-

*Delete as appropriate

Large Super Sonic (SA) Side

Large Super Sonic (SA) Front

The SADX Model is not the SA Model, thank you very much. Are you that silly?

Craig, I think you should call him a recolour of Super Sonic's design with a few bits and bobs added rather than character model.

As they made his quills stay down, the exact opposite of Super Sonic's, gave him his own pair of rocket shoes, and added chest hair to make him look a bit different, for example.

Though even with all those minor added features deep down he's still a Super Sonic recolor.

I still say they should've given him a hat..

Now THAT would make him different.

then people might compare him to knuckles or nack as the other hat wearing characters. (but knux doesn't compleately count, as the hat is only seen in non-game appearances)

*Hoping everyone else is familiar with Sealab 2021*

Next up on Sonic's nemesis list: Bizarro Sonic!! "I'm way past bizarro cool!"

Meh. In recent games and in Sonic X, they've changed Super Sonic's quills. Instead of having the "side quills bent up" look, his quills now have that classic Super Saiyan look to it. (See sig pic.)

So now Shadow's the only one with the "side quills" look.