So true.
Even games that are duds, like Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedghog, both had really awesome songs like "I Am (All of Me)" And "What I'm Made Of"
xD
Sonic Team has always been known to hire great musicians.
script is on sonic cult
psssh. the sonic music is passable most of the time to me, as nothing really makes me want to kill myself, but i have rarely heard something actually awesome from them since '99. some songs are good on a sheer "lol, hair metal" level, or ambient/forgettable enough to never leave an impression of any kind, let alone a negative one.
Most of the time they are just laughable. especially adventure 1. my friend and i nearly died laughing at big, tails, knuckles, and amy's themes. he'd walk around saying "i wanna fly hiiiiigh" in falseto. lord... "Here I come; Ruffa din da ressa dim"
anyway this isn't a music thread i guess i'll shut up
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When I read the script I didn't understand Shadow's ending at all, and a few parts of his story confused me as well, if someone would be so nice to give a short summary in spoilers I'd appreciate.
My short summaries aren't all that short.
Spoilers (Select To Read): Well, in general Shadow was sent to Eggman's base in White Acropolis to rescue Rouge. Rouge was sent in to retrieve the Sceptre of Darkness. After they both escape, they head for the G.U.N. extraction point in Kingdom Valley. Eggman finds them and demands the return of the sceptre. A scuffle ensues and in the process, the sceptre breaks. Eggman hightails it as Mephiles escapes from the sceptre, absorbing Shadow's shadow in the process. Before Shadow can question what he is, Mephiles sends them both into a time warp.
Stuck in the future, Rouge and Shadow explore and find a disabled Omega, who appears to be in standby mode. After being joined by Sonic, Tails and Knuckles (themselves caught in a time warp) they decide to team up to find a way back to their present. Together with Sonic's emerald (gotten from Elise) and the one they find in the future, Sonic and Shadow initiate Chaos Control to open a rift. However, Mephiles appears before Shadow goes through, causing the hedgehog to run after him as the rift closes behind him.
In the present, Rouge suspects Shadow stayed behind and enlists the help of the present Omega to hide himself away with a Chaos Emerald stashed in his body. In the future, Shadow chases after Mephiles through Flame Core and into the heart of a volcano where he confronts the demon. Mephiles reveals that humanity would one day turn on Shadow and imprison him in stasis forever unless he does as Mephiles instructs and turn on them first. Shadow doesn't buy it and fights Mephiles. Mephiles takes on his demon form and nearly beats Shadow before Omega appears to lend a metal hand. Together they drive off Mephiles and use the Chaos Emerald to return to the present.
Once they return and rejoin Rouge, they decide to locate Eggman to learn the truth about Mephiles and another method of containing it. Heading through Radical Train, Shadow finds Sonic under attack from Silver. He steps in, allowing Sonic to chase after Eggman w/ Elise in tow. A battle ensues. Afterwards, Shadow demostrates his Chaos Control ability to take Silver down. Silver doesn't understand why Shadow is protecting the Iblis Trigger and charges again. Shadow prepares another Chaos Control when suddenly Silver mimics the move with his own chaos emerald, opening a rift in space. An only slightly surprised Shadow tells Silver if they're to learn the real truth, they would have to go back 10 years to the previous Soleanna disaster. Silver relunctantly agrees and follows Shadow into the void.
They appear in a laboratory where Iblis and Mephiles are being experimented on by Elise's father, Duke of Soleanna. An accident occurs just as Elise enters the room. Her father leaps in front of her to shield her from the resulting explosion. Iblis and Mephiles attempt to escape the lab, with both Shadow and Silver in hot pursuit. Before Shadow takes off, the Duke hands him the Sceptre of Darkness. After cornering Mephiles, Shadow uses the sceptre to imprison him but not before Mephiles promises that he would "remember that face". After reuniting with Silver (with an unconscious Elise in tow) Shadow leaves the sceptre behind, knowing full well where it'll end up in 10 years. They leave Elise under a tree and initiate Chaos Control, returning to the present.
Shadow shares with Rouge the secret to capturing Mephiles in the present. Together they find another Sceptre of Darkness hidden away in Soleanna. Rouge tells him that Omega went ahead to track down Mephiles and may need their help. Together they rush to Omega's location. Meanwhile, Mephiles reveals to Omega that he will be the one who captures Shadow in the future before fleeing. Omega relays this to Shadow later, but he shrugs it off. Rouge assures him that even if the whole world is against him, she'll stay by his side. With that, the three head to the desert ruins to confront Mephiles one last time.
Inside the ruins, Mephiles appears before them and tries to persuade Shadow to join him once again. Team Dark defies him and the battle begins. After Mephiles is soundly beaten, Shadow employs the Sceptre and proceeds to capture Mephiles.
But it fails, and Mephiles breaks free. It states that due to having gained Shadow's form and power, it can no longer be held by the same means. Mephiles creates a clone army and surrounds the trio. The story ends with Shadow removing his bracelets and, with Rouge and Omega, charging up and plowing their way through a slew of 'Mephili'.
Kind of random, but why does Shadow remove his bracelets in that scene?
He's been doing that since Sonic X. To use his maximum power.
Huh. Interesting.
Anyways, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Im buying the game, no question, but, due to monetary constraints (i.e. I'm getting the Wii, and won't have any money for the PS3 OR the XBox 360), I'll rent the system every so often.
Oh, by the way, how far would I be able to get in about 3 to 5 days (the amount of time the local rental place rents stuff out for)?
Wait- in Sonic X he takes the bracelets off to unleash his real power? HUH? Anyone want to offer a brief explanation on the logic behind this?
And since when has Sonic X had any relevance to the games? And has Shadow ever done this before in the games?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Hellz no. This is one of those "completely out of left field" dealies. But it would appear they want to incorporate that part about Shadow from Sonic X into this game for whatever reason.
So in Sonic X, did Shadow's "real, ultimate" power manifest itself as a golden aura that apeared infront of him as he would skate throw his enemies? Just seems kinda silly to me.
Sonic X is being incorporated into the video games???
O_O
NOOO!!!
Didn't Shadow take off his rings at the end of Sonic Adventure 2?
I could've sworn they slid off before he went all "CHAOS CONTROL" or something, but I haven't touched my Dreamcast in years ....
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Anyways, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Im buying the game, no question, but, due to monetary constraints (i.e. I'm getting the Wii, and won't have any money for the PS3 OR the XBox 360), I'll rent the system every so often.
You have a local place that rents systems? That's cool. None of the chains(like Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, etc.) doesn't do that anymore.
If Shads is removing his metal rings, to use his 'real' power, it's quite possibly another DBZ nod, with the metal rings being weights that hold him back.
I agreed with GyserHog. I think it was DBZ nod.
Alright has anyone beaten Solaris in all his forms? I stuck in that part.
During the first assault Solaris will have a shield up that absorbs Sonic and Shadow's attacks, so use Silver until its right arm breaks up. Then switch to Shadow and attack until the left arm does the same. Finally, use Sonic to deliver the final blows.
Afterwards, it'll switch strategies. Then you can use whomever to deal damage.
Langis616's misplaced post. This ain't mine.
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... should stand for Sonic Team's neglect no more.
Some biases/personal info out of way first, as I'm a first time poster here, and depending on how this thread goes, this will probably be my only time posting here:
I've been a Sonic fan since I was about 12 years old, when I saw some grainy preview pics of Sonic 1 on the Genesis in a magazine. FOr 15 years I've loved Sonic games. I've played them, over and over, studying how they work. I can tell you countless tales of how I've studied how hills affect momentum, about the differences of gravity's affect on your character between the 2D Sonic games and the 3D ones, why you sometimes bounce really high after hitting an enemy, but sometimes don't. These are games I love and play to this day, and I know that they're flawed, but I don't care, because their pros outweight their cons.
Like you, I've defended the bum rap the Sonic Adventure titles and Sonic Heroes got. I even defended Shadow the Hedgehog's good points, though I couldn't get away with saying that I liked the game. Not every Sonic game has been perfect; I don't think Sonic CD deserves half the praise it gets, but it still reeks of effort and thoughtfulness, so I won't fault you for liking it. Same for Sonic Advance 2, which IMO Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Rush improved upon immensely. For the most part, I've liked every SOnic game I've played, even some of the Game Gear ones, and I vehemently defend the series against those who "just don't get it."
Finally, I have a rather inflated ego, and I like to consider that my opinions are well thought out. I can be extremely bull-headed, and when I think I'm right, I won't back down unless it is in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I don't frequent Sonic fan sites because, frankly, I don't care; my enjoyment of the game series isn't something I feel the need to share, and whether or not you enjoy it doesn't matter to much to me... except in it comes to the next-gen Sonic game that just came out.
With all that out of the way, I'm going to say what I came here to say. If you disagree, fine... but you're wrong. Sorry, but I'm sticking to that, and allow me to say that any argument you have to convince me that my opinion on this particular matter is no more valuable than someone else's, save it, because mine is.
Here goes:
Sonic the Hedgehog for the X-Box 360 (henceforth abbreviated as "Sonic360") is a terrible game, and Sonic fans have to tell Sonic Team that trash like this is absolutely unacceptable. It has little merit and a metric ton of very real flaws, and enjoying it is telling Sonic Team that you're okay with them taking the series down a very destructive path.
Yes, I said it. If you consider it taboo, too freaking bad. I love Sonic games... but I should've realized something was wrong when Sonic Adventure 2 didn't correct Adventure 1's very glaring faults, and when both remade Adventure games for the GameCube didn't address said flaws either.
Sonic360 is Sonic Team's SEVENTH ATTEMPT at making a 3D Sonic. For the record, they have had these six games to learn from:
- Sonic Adventure (DC) - any problems can be explained as SOnic Team's first 3D SOnic attempt
- SOnic Adventure 2 (DC) - similar problems to Adventure 1 (worse camera, arguably worse controls, questionable level types that don't mesh with what Sonic is) that should've been fixed; this is also the game that we fans should've noticed something was rotten with Sonic Team's thinking, and yes, I'm no exception to this
- Sonic Adventure 2 Battle (GC) - even more glitchiness than the DC version, and no real fixes for the DC version's issues. This was a prime chance for Sonic Team to resolve quite a few problems.
- SOnic Adventure DX (GC) - ditto.
- Sonic Heroes (GC; I didn't try the other versions) - again, play types that don't really fit into Sonic (mainly Chaotix's missions) and more camera/control issues, but that's okay, because it was, again, Sonic Team's first try at a tag-team style game.
- Shadow the Hedgehog (GC; didn't try the others) - here's where I began to worry, even though I should've long before this. This game had to be the pinaccle of bad Sonic games, and the shame is that it could've been a very fun run-n-gunner if it didn't force the damn objectives down your throat. Other than drastically improved rail jumping, controls here are the worst of all the 3D titles, and the camera is, as always, no help.So Sonic360 has no excuse. Other predominantly 2D series got their 3D jumps right after the first try, with consistently good followups. This includes several key Nintendo series, like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid. I accept no arguments of "it's hard to make a 3D Sonic game!" Nuh-uh. THis is take 7, not take 2, not take 1, but 7.
And the flaws of Sonic360, a game that honest-to-goodness looks and feels like it is still in an ALPHA state, are plentiful, and this is where my angry-rant mode takes over:
*sigh* This is the FIFTH MAJOR 3D SONIC TITLE. Why. Hasn't. Sonic. Team. Fixed. The. Freaking. CAMERA!? Why are the controls, at any given time, either too stiff or too sensitive? WHY!? There's no excuse anymore. I forgave it in Sonic Adventure 1/2. I forgave it in Heroes. This isn't an acceptable flaw anymore.
Someone explain to me, please, why Sonic is so slow. Please. I'm asking. 'Cuz he is SLOW. He wasn't this slow in any game not titled "Sonic the Fighters".
Controls are TERRIBLE. Why aren't both the X and B buttons used in attacks!? The B button could've easily handled some functions, with X handling others. Instead, the X button controls most attacks and is SUPER SENSITIVE. You want to do something that requires a tap!? Your finger better leave that button 0.00000000000001 seconds after you touch it. Terrible.
SONIC TEAM TOOK OUT THE ABILITY TO JUMP IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING A SPIN DASH. A staple "long jump" move of the Adventure games and Shadow the Hedgehog, as well as countless 2D Sonic games, is gone. Thanks, Sega. Bravo.
You think Sonic was slowed down!? WHAT HAPPENED TO TAILS!? I agree that in SA1, he was broken, but man, he's slower than Mario in Mario 64! And the ring bombs were a bad idea in SH; why bring them back?
While we're on the topic of slow; okay, I can understand that Silver is slow, but why is Shadow almost as slow as Tails? Why are Knuckles, Rouge, and Blaze so slow?
LOAD TIMES ARE ATTROCIOUS! There are literally times where you'll talk to a guy and have, and this is not exageration, a 10 second load time BEFORE and AFTER the conversation! That's 20 seconds altogether! And in the case of some of the mini-games, if you fail, YOU HAVE TO REPEAT THIS!
Level design is just bad. Did Traveller's Tales make this game or something? 'Cuz it feels like one of their games. It feels like I'm playing that Crash Bandicoot game they designed when Naughty Dog dumped the series, let alone any of the Sonic games Travellers has botched.
The "carrying Elise" idea doesn't work. What a terrible level idea. Sonic is all about speed, LET'S GIVE HIM A SLOWER LEVEL TYPE. Dispicable.
The "Sonic runs continuously and you just tap left/right ala running down the Speed Highway building" idea also fails. Half the first level is this crap. With all the non-interactive loops and whatnot, isn't Sonic controlled by the computer enough?
Buying upgrades. Granted, D rank gives you enough, and my constant A and S ranks guaranteed income, but why bother? Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, even, saw fit to give me all my abilities right away, and the adventure titles let me find them, not buy them. If you aren't getting A/S ranks consistently, you have to endure the painful town minigames, and boy are they painful.
There's a reason the town field system of SA1 was dropped. This game is a sad reminder why. Yet somehow, Sonic360 does the town field idea WORSE.
ONLY ONE SAVE FILE <-- There is absolutely, positively, no excuse for this garbage. Zelda 1, in the 80s, gives me three. Doom from XBL arcade gives me 10. Past Sonic games gave me plenty.
FORCED WIDESCREEN IN HD!!! <-- Ditto. My HDTV isn't widescreen. Why the hell are those stupid letterboxes in the damn way? Note that normally I wouldn't care, but since Sonic plays like he's coated in molasses, it's just another flaw brought to light.
Princess Elise. I don't give a damn who Sonic likes, but this isn't Xenogears or the first disc of Star Ocean 3. I don't want some 5 minute FMV explaining that Elise likes Sonic. BTW, the CG scenes are pretty beautiful, and stand as one of the game's only high points.
Every 3D Sonic before this, even Shadow, started with a small cinematic and throws you RIGHT INTO THE ACTION like a proper game does, showing off the feeling of the game to capture the audience. Before you even get to play ONE level in the hideous steaming pile that is Sonic360, you have to go through a town scene and an innane mini-game that shouldn't have been there.
Whoopdee doo, the Havok Physics engine. I'm sure that matters when Sonic just went through a wall and died. Glitches are a fact of life in Sonic ONLY BECAUSE the games are usually stellar. In this game, it's just another pitfall.
Pointless, un-fun town minigames to do, usually accompanied by brutal load times and, in some cases, a lack of direction on what you're supposed to do.
Countless other cons I could name but don't come to mind right now.
^ It actually hurts me to bring these forward, but I can't hide from the truth any longer. This series I loved is dying, and has been dying for a long time. Sonic Team continues to push to see how early into a development cycle they can release a game that fans will still buy. And if you buy this, if you sing its praises, you're telling them that it's okay.
Sonic Team isn't EA, a company that only cares about lining their pockets with gold at any expense. At least, they didn't used to be. Sonic Team has no excuse... and neither do any Sonic fans. This is the seventh try. You forgave six before this. Don't forgive this one. Rent this game first, and when you see what it is, don't buy it. ANd if you still intend to tell yourself that it is good, know that you're deluding yourself. This is a fact. The problems with this game are TOO numerous, too many to simply ignore, and the gameplay that allowed you to overlook these problems in the past SIMPLY ISN'T HERE. If you believe otherwise, you're wrong, or blatantly lying.
That's my post. Discuss. Or not. Your call.
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The "carrying Elise" idea doesn't work. What a terrible level idea. Sonic is all about speed, LET'S GIVE HIM A SLOWER LEVEL TYPE. Dispicable.
No offense, but that's the dumbest thing anyone claiming to be a Sonic fan to say. Sonic games are not always about speed. The later levels in the 2D Sonic games will tell you that for Pete's sake. Why must Sonic games must fall into the nonstop speed stereotype? It's not a (prodominantly) racing series. And not only that:
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The "Sonic runs continuously and you just tap left/right ala running down the Speed Highway building" idea also fails. Half the first level is this crap. With all the non-interactive loops and whatnot, isn't Sonic controlled by the computer enough?
Now you criticize the constant running levels. For the love of Earth, mnake up your mind.
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Langis616's misplaced post. This ain't mine.
Thanks for moving my post to the right place. I appreciate it.
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No offense, but that's the dumbest thing anyone claiming to be a Sonic fan to say. Sonic games are not always about speed. The later levels in the 2D Sonic games will tell you that for Pete's sake. Why must Sonic games must fall into the nonstop speed stereotype? It's not a (prodominantly) racing series.
I never once claimed that Sonic was ALL ABOUT speed. Though if I have, somewhere, by all means, do point it out.
As for the 2D Sonic games not being about speed, I beg to differ. That may have been the case in Sonic 1, where half the zones were more about zipping through them and the other half more about exploration and pacing, but in Sonic 2, every zone, except possibly Mystic Cave and Oil Ocean (and the last zone with the final boss fights, for obvious reasons) had more than its fair share of speedy segments and quick platforming, and S3&K had those elements in almost every zone and act.
Moving to the Advance series, the speed element becomes even more pronounced. While Sonic Advance 2 took this too far IMO, 1 and 3 had a great mix of speed and exploration, while Sonic Rush took everything wrong about Advance 2 and made right.
You're correct, it is not a racing series. It is, predominantly, an action-platformer series that focuses on speed and reflexes. Nobody said Sonic has to be nonstop speed. But if the title character fails to go at high speeds as he has done in almost every game before WITHOUT the assistance of a speeder or an automated sequence (like a loop), that raises eyebrows. The series and the games have always advertised speed. Why is it shying away from giving you direct control over that speed, as it has so many times before? It speaks volumes of the direction Sonic360 goes, and that direction is worrysome.
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Now you criticize the constant running levels. For the love of Earth, mnake up your mind.
I think you know, full well, what I was getting at, and to be honest this sounds like the kind of mindless, grasp-at-straws defense that Sonic fans have been using for far too long. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt this one time, and assume you are saying this seriously.
The so-called "Mach Speed" levels are the only time you truly get to see Sonic cut loose in this game. And that ain't right. Because the Mach Speed levels are nothing more than Sonic running "on rails" where all you do is move left, move right, or jump. And while I'm all for the occasional semi-auto element like this in a Sonic game, like the sequence in Speed Highway or even something like Sonic 2's special stages, I question the design decision to stick this sort of element in a normal level and use it as a defining example of Sonic's speed.
I believe I've responded to you well enough. Do you have anything further to say about the game? Or was it just these two points you were curious about?
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I never once claimed that Sonic was ALL ABOUT speed. Though if I have, somewhere, by all means, do point it out.
But before that:
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What a terrible level idea. Sonic is all about speed, LET'S GIVE HIM A SLOWER LEVEL TYPE. Dispicable.
That's my biggest beef when someone uses that as an excuse to bash the 3D games. By that logic, the 2D games should be bad too.
As for the camera, some people say it has improved some say it's worse. I haven't played the game so I wouldn't know who to believe. Though I would lean more to the ones say it improved because the camera in Sonic games never hindered me. o.o
Hmmmm....interesting, I'll find out the truth once I finally play this game! yosh!
man, is this game really that bad? From watching the gameplay videos, it looks pretty damn good and the music is wonderful (reminds me of NiGHTs kind of)
I think several people were misled by the gameplay videos.
Also, Langis, are you a regular at neoGAF or Penny-Arcade? You remind me of some people there.
And your first post here made you one of my favorite posters here. *hearts* ![:]](https://www.mobiusforum.net/images/icons/smilies/biggrinshaded.gif){kind=icon}
Sonic the Hedgehog 06 really brings out the difference between looking at something, and feeling something.
It looks beautiful -- there are a couple of areas in the game where I am VERY visually impressed ... but playing it is a whole different story.
Langis, how about this... if someone wants to like the game, let'em.
I agree about the steep steep doward spiral the series has taken, and I don't buy the newest Sonic game on the mere virtue of it being a Sonic game like I did in the years up to 1999. But dont be a douche. If somehow people are getting their giggles out of the stupid game, than more power to them.
I can't stand the SIMS. I think it's one of the most inane, insipid "games" ever conceived. So what? I don't buy the games.
This game has flaws, and maybe it will take this and the Shadow game to finally spank SEGA into giving the series to another team. Like the way Eidos took Tomb Raider away from CORE after the God-awful Angel of Darkness, and gave it to Silicon Knights.
The only people saying that this game is the best-thing-ever are the sort that can't be convinced otherwise. Also, Lang, you said If you disagree, fine... but you're wrong. Sorry, but I'm sticking to that, and allow me to say that any argument you have to convince me that my opinion on this particular matter is no more valuable than someone else's, save it, because mine is mine no such thing as a "right" opinion. Get over yourself, and welcome.
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Like the way Eidos took Tomb Raider away from CORE after the God-awful Angel of Darkness, and gave it to Silicon Knights.
Eidos actually gave tomb raider to crystal dynamics (creators of legacy of kain series), not silicon knights.
What she says is the complete and honest truth, but I think the only reason she's so shocked and angry about it is because it is only just occurring to her. I made my peace a while ago with the fact that Sonic Team are either surprisingly incompetent at programming games, or will never be allowed to polish them to perfection.
There has never been released a 3D Sonic game that doesn't play like it's still in its Alpha or Beta stages, so frankly I'm questioning why so many of us (myself included) were silly enough to think that this game would be. This old dog is never going to learn any new tricks. Ever.
If you disagree, then good for you. You've still got a few more months or years of blisfull ignorance before the ugly truth of the Sonic video game series hits you.
it really is a shame
Twenty one years and one month I've been alive, and I've yet to be disillusioned by anything. I LOVED Heroes and Shadow. Does all of THAT make me wrong?
PS That was aimed at Langis.
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Why is it shying away from giving you direct control over that speed, as it has so many times before? It speaks volumes of the direction Sonic360 goes, and that direction is worrysome.
I agree, and it's been going that direction since SA. Sonic Team can't figure out how to make a 3D Sonic game that isn't about the devs controlling the player. Really it's not that hard, so how they could be that incompetent is hard to guess. Maybe high sales have kept them from reconsidering the SA formula of mostly linear tracks over a pit.
Even with a buggy camera and bad collision detection a lot of issues could be solved just by going away from pits and coating the bottom of a level with actual ground, so that falling leads you to a harder or less item-filled course, like in the 2D games.
Thats what I meant... I knew that
Silicon Knights also worked on Legacy of Kain so my brain swapped'em
bloo:
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Langis, how about this... if someone wants to like the game, let'em.
I agree about the steep steep doward spiral the series has taken, and I don't buy the newest Sonic game on the mere virtue of it being a Sonic game like I did in the years up to 1999. But dont be a douche. If somehow people are getting their giggles out of the stupid game, than more power to them.
I think Lang seems to be pretty angry that these games still sell well enough that ST hardly fix any of these problems at all or add new problems. Seems Lang wants a 3D Sonic game that is on the quality level on Mario, Zelda, or Ratchet and Clank and not on the level of the 3D Castlevania games.
sonic332:
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Twenty one years and one month I've been alive, and I've yet to be disillusioned by anything. I LOVED Heroes and Shadow. Does all of THAT make me wrong?
I think all of us can admit to enjoying at least one heavily flawed game. Recently, I've found some amusement in Cubivore. Though I felt, I payed $35 too much for the game so, I'm a bit annoyed by that.
I can sympathize with wanting a Sonic to be released that has the critical acclaim as Ratchet or Mario. I can not sympathize with one who somehow thinks they are superior to those who actually are able to get some level of enjoyment out of this game.
Yes the camera sucks and always has. Yes the levels arent very inspired. Yes yes yes. We've heard it all before ever since SA1. Don't like the games? Fine, move on but don't call people "wrong" for not agreeing with you that a game isn't worth playing.
To be honest, I'd rather play StH before I pass judgement, so at least my arguement would be backed up.
Oh, and...
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LOAD TIMES ARE ATTROCIOUS! There are literally times where you'll talk to a guy and have, and this is not exageration, a 10 second load time BEFORE and AFTER the conversation! That's 20 seconds altogether! And in the case of some of the mini-games, if you fail, YOU HAVE TO REPEAT THIS!
All loading times on the 360 are atrocious to a certain degree, I guess that the price we've paid for bigger, better looking environments. This (mostly) isn't ST's fault, remember that.
That is all.
Well, the constant loading *is* a real source of frustration. There really isn't any reason for the extraneous loading that occurs when you're accepting side missions on the adventure fields. The game literally dumps everything from RAM and reloads the entire city so that the person you're accepting the mission from can say the equivalent of 'This is what I want you to do. Are you ready?'. It just smacks of lazy programming. It really makes you think twice about wanting stage hubs in future console Sonic games. By the time you're ready to attempt the mandatory Soleanna tests you'll be fit to be tied.
The rest of the time, the loading is on par with either Sonic Adventures. Which goes back to my earlier point about Sega not being able to rectify past mistakes...
I thought loading times are commonplace in pretty much all games from this generation (excluding any games that install into the hard drive)and the previous generation due to the media (as opposed to cartridges and excluding most PC games).
I'm not excusing Sega's lazy programmers: I'd seen that sort of thing with Crash 3 (one of the best games that I have played).
From what I have read so far, this game needed fine-tunning and a delay. Now, it needs a patch if Sega wants to sell this game more. Otherwise, I already mentioned three other games I'd like to have for Christmas or later into next year.
I wonder if the PS3 version of this game would have the same problems that the XBOX 360 version has or something much worse.
On the subject of the debate, it's not so much what people are saying, it's the reveling on one side of the argument when people pop up to say things that are not written in a fair manner. The comments that tell people "not to settle for this" and to "wake up" also smack of turning the topic into "this is the way we're _supposed_ to think."
Are the major gaming critiques forbidden to address these issues during interviews.. forced to only be positive? I would think by now it would certainly be on their mind WHY the camera, slippery controls, pits.. etc haven't been fixed over the last several years.
I'm probably jumping the gun, but is it safe to say whenever any well-known video game site delays reviewing a major Sonic game, it is a hint that the Sonic game may be of dubious quality?
I don't think you are jumping the gun here, Acid. It's probably a normal practice in the media.
At any rate, my love for getting this game has become hatred. If I get this game, it better be fixed or patched or whatever it needs to work like I hope it would work. Otherwise, I'm not spending my hard-earned money on Sega's bullcrapish attempts on a 3D Sonic.
Scorned fan, yes I am.
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What a terrible level idea. Sonic is all about speed, LET'S GIVE HIM A SLOWER LEVEL TYPE. Dispicable.
My bad, I got caught up in the rant. Instead of ALL I should've said MOSTLY.
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Also, Langis, are you a regular at neoGAF or Penny-Arcade? You remind me of some people there.
And your first post here made you one of my favorite posters here.
I read the comic here and there but I'm no regular. And yeah, gameplay videos were extremely misleading. Those mach speed segments made it look like you were controlling Sonic. Misleading on purpose? Sadly, I'm thinking yes.
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Langis, how about this... if someone wants to like the game, let'em.
I agree about the steep steep doward spiral the series has taken, and I don't buy the newest Sonic game on the mere virtue of it being a Sonic game like I did in the years up to 1999. But dont be a douche. If somehow people are getting their giggles out of the stupid game, than more power to them.
Normally, I'd agree wholeheartedly, but in this case, I simply can't. This sets a precedent for even more bad Sonic games, and I'm not about to just lie down and take it. Whether you like hearing this or not, it has to be said: I don't think anyone, truly, deep down, wants this game as it is, and I think everyone playing it, despite anything they say o u t w a r d l y to the contrary, feels that by NOW, years and games after Sonic Team's first jump into 3D land, they should've had a good, working 3D Sonic game.
Mario did it in one try, whether or not you liked the "treasure hunter" genre it spawned. And at least both Mario 64 and Sunshine seem to have something Sonic360 does not; developer love, attention to detail, and evidence that it was tested before release. Same for Zelda (with the possible exception of Majora's Mask; every family has a black sheep, right?). Same for Metroid. Sonic Team is, or WAS, the most innovative developer on the planet. Once. This is the seventh major 3D Sonic title. You damn right we, as fans, better expect it to be pretty damn well near perfect.
But if we don't, and we don't speak up, via normal channels (mail, email, telephone, etc.) or monetary channels (adopting a rent-before-buy approach and not purchasing Sonic titles that aren't of at least halfway-decent quality), then Sonic is doomed to be a series where players have to try REALLY HARD to dig deep and find good things to say about the games... instead of letting the good points speak for themselves.
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no such thing as a "right" opinion. Get over yourself, and welcome.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one, because I know that there are right opinions and wrong ones, or more accurately, well-informed ones and ill-informed ones. And don't get your welcome mat ready; it's appreciated, but I won't be here long. After I get all the points I want to get across, I descend back into lurkdom, showing a pal who bought a shiny new Wii the wonders of Sonic 1.
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What she says is the complete and honest truth, but I think the only reason she's so shocked and angry about it is because it is only just occurring to her. I made my peace a while ago with the fact that Sonic Team are either surprisingly incompetent at programming games, or will never be allowed to polish them to perfection.
There has never been released a 3D Sonic game that doesn't play like it's still in its Alpha or Beta stages, so frankly I'm questioning why so many of us (myself included) were silly enough to think that this game would be. This old dog is never going to learn any new tricks. Ever.
If you disagree, then good for you. You've still got a few more months or years of blisfull ignorance before the ugly truth of the Sonic video game series hits you.
"He" actually. And that was something I used to accept... and would probably still have accepted if Sonic 360 was at least partially redeemable. But it isn't, and it's because we let Sonic Team push us, to see how early into the development cycle they could release a game and still make money. This is Sonic Team's fault... and OUR fault. MY fault. We can either do something, by speaking up and not supporting this crap, or do nothing, and either be lapdogs to Sonic Team or, sadly, move on, playing only the classic Sonic games that WERE worth our time.
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I think Lang seems to be pretty angry that these games still sell well enough that ST hardly fix any of these problems at all or add new problems. Seems Lang wants a 3D Sonic game that is on the quality level on Mario, Zelda, or Ratchet and Clank and not on the level of the 3D Castlevania games.
Quoted for truth and emphasis. Funny enough, Castlevania is another game having trouble in 3D land... though Metroid found great success. An interesting phenomena.
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Yes the camera sucks and always has. Yes the levels arent very inspired. Yes yes yes. We've heard it all before ever since SA1. Don't like the games? Fine, move on but don't call people "wrong" for not agreeing with you that a game isn't worth playing.
True fans don't let a game developer walk all over them. True fans make the games they love better with feedback and criticism--sometimes harsh, harsh criticism. Sonic Team has gone uncriticised for FAR too long. This can't continue if we ever want Sonic to turn around.
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All loading times on the 360 are atrocious to a certain degree, I guess that the price we've paid for bigger, better looking environments. This (mostly) isn't ST's fault, remember that.
I don't buy that for a second. My Marvel Ultimate Alliance load times are long... but they load a whole whack of stuff at once, and I don't see another load screen for a while.
In Sonic, there are times when there's a 10 second load time, a guy says ONE LINE (no hyperbole; ONE FREAKIN' LINE), and then another 10-15 seconds of loading. I don't believe, not even for the slightest moment, that the one line couldn't have been loaded in with the rest of what the game is doing. Not for a moment.
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BTW, as a newcomer to this community, and one posting a rather... controversial first post, I want to thank y'all for actually discussing this, whether you agree with me or not. It is good to see that people still apply thought to the games they play.
I'm in TOTAL agreement with Langis. The people who really like this game are playing with fanboy blinders on.
We have to make a point to Sega that a Sonic game like this is completely unacceptable. The broken "Sonic Adventure style of gameplay has got to stop.
But they don't seem to listen or care. Just look at the reviews of the GBA port of the original Sonic. They say they completly screwed it up, AND IT'S A FREAKIN 15 YEAR-OLD GENESIS GAME.
It's just goes to show that they just don't care anymore. They just want the money from the Sonic fans.
I still have a lot of hope in Sonic and the Secret Rings for Wii. Having played it at E3, this is the formula they should have been doing with Sonic before. It may be a bit shallow and linear, but no more than running through boosters where you do loop-de-loops and go through more boosters so you have no control over you character for about a minute. I really hope this will be the game that will get Sonic back on track.
Remember, they gave Paper Mario 2 a f***ing 6. I'll never forgive them for that.
And this review seems to be a rant of cartoony graphics with realisticly. Also, they complain about Sonic dies (gameplay wise)
Yeah they gave Scarface a 9(trust me that game deserve a 4).What up Gamespot lately? First they gave the new Zelda a low score(low for a Zelda game anyway)and now Sonic 4.4. This game at least deserve a 6.5 or 7.
Can we all just go rent the game and see if it holds true?
Seriously, discussing how reviewers and fanboys give low and high scores is rather a waste of time: Sega would probably not learn anything about it and it's a waste of kilobytes, paper and media.
Yes, I'm still disappointed (and yet I still want to get the game as a rental).
DoN is right. Reviews are nice, but you should always base your final judgement on your own understanding of the game.
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First they gave the new Zelda a low score(low for a Zelda game anyway)
What? There must be a rule that all Zelda game must not score lower than a 9?
OHNOS NOT A 8.8!?!
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and now Sonic 4.4. This game at least deserve a 6.5 or 7.
Well look at it this way, according to GS, Sonic is only half as good as Zelda:TP.
Ditto what Dream and 1991 said. Just because some people say it's bad don't mean you should belive them off the bat. Play the game first THEAN give you vote if it's good or bad.
I swear, Im Mentally 20 years old. o.o;
