I'm sorry, nytloc, (well, actually I'm not, but always best to be polite), but I'm afraid I don't agree with you on the graphics bit - they are sub par. General consensus is that graphics in previous games, usually SA2, were the best of the series, even though they were running on weaker hardware and using older techniques. Heck, you can compare it to most other games of the current times and it's just plain weak - the models are poor (eg. human models, most notably GUN Commandor and President, effectively suck), textures are bland...it's essentially Heroes recycled. Not good. As for the CGI scenes, I'll admit they were nice, but I'd much rather have nice in game graphics and have all the cutscenes run in real-time than have pre-rendered sequences alongside poor in-game models. I mean, it's worked for most games recently - Jak, MGS...
Music...most of it was forgettable, in my opinion, which rather shocked me. The Crush 40 tunes were alright (although All of Me took a while to get used to), and the remixes from previous games (Heavy Dog, Blue Falcon, E.G.G.M.A.N.) were awesome, although that said they were done by a seperate company...certainly below previous standards of the Sonic series in my opinion, tho.
As for playability, I don't care how Shadow controlled in Battle, since there were other characters who handled better but were overall weaker, it was for use as a balancing issue. Games should have tight controls - especially if they have picky cameras (like this) and move so quick that one wrong move could ruin everything. Not that this necessarily does, mind - there's a lot of stopping to take out enemies and whatnot. Which ain't too great.
Entertainment, it doesn't really matter how many units sell. Being the franchise it is, people will willingly lap up anything Sonic-related given the chance, no matter how it's said to be. Heck, I even bought - and still have - Heroes, even though I now detest it. While I won't go so far as say the game was boring - there were a few fun points, mainly those in which you got to charge through the level as you so wish - there was quite a lot of it that wasn't a lot of fun to go through.
And lastly, for replay value, anyone who would willingly play through the game 300-odd times in order to get all the library bits is either a glutton for punishment, or has a severly different idea of fun than I. Also to my understanding there isn't all that much in the way of bonuses - music tracks as you hear them, which is nothing new, Last Story when you've beat 10 others, which ain't that great anyway, and, IIRC, Hard Mode for getting all A ranks. That's about it, as I recall - pales in comparison to many other games in regards to amount and worth. If you get my meaning.
Yeah, just felt like picking that apart to give my opinions on it all.
I never said the graphics were astounding. I said they were Adventure-esque, which is absolutely fine by me. Sub-par in-game graphics with awesome CGI is how I like most of my games. (FFX, Jak, Adventures, etc) Not to mention, a lot of people (not necessarily you) are wanting the sixteen-bit games back. How can they possibly complain about the graphics when they want something so danged... miniscule? (No offense; I love the 2D games)
I completely disagree with you about the balance thing. Ever since... probably Sonic 3, the games have always been about balance when it came to extra characters. Knuckles has always been slower than Sonic, but could climb. Same with Tails and his ability to fly. If they randomly decided to make a game starring Ivo, as they once had that poll for, would you want him to be speedy and full of tight-handled controls?
It doesn't matter how many units a game sells? Okay. You might possibly have a point. Maybe Sonic Heroes wouldn't have been as successful if it was called just plain Heroes. But still, how much a game sells is a cue point of the popularity. If they made 'SoNIk DA HeJJhug,' complete with three-bit graphics and a level and a half of gameplay, would you be pleased enough to buy it?
Whether or not you care to do the replay value doesn't mean it's not there. If you call a game that takes three hours to blast through and one-hundred hours to completely master short, I'm afraid you've got something lodged in your brain. Calling this a game with low replay value boggles my mind. Show me ten longer games. C'mon. (Not counting stuff like Animal Crossing or the Sims)
You're failing to mention a few unlockables. There's the Final Story, the keys and the unlockable doors. Don't forget all the A-ranks, and 360 endings. You're honestly saying that that trumps Metal Sonic or Green Hill? I mean, sure, they were good unlockables, but still.
Okay. I'll ask this question: Does even ten percent of the members of this board beleive that this game deserved a 2/10? I would easily quadruple that; easily.
~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper
Just thougt I'd add my tupance, Jak quite proudly uses their character models in cutscenes to show of how brilliant they are...
*hops out of the lurk kingdom*
I think many people who like this game and hate the professionals' reviews of this game tend to forget something. Many of these professionals played tons of video games and they are reviewing them for the casual and hardcore gaming fans--not the strictly Sonic fans. They have played games that are well-crafted with care and polished that are devering of high praises and marks such as Psychonauts, Resident Evil 4, and We <3 Katamari. They can probably tell by the graphics(there is no excuse for DC 1998-era graphics in 2005, Sega!), the gameplay/controls, the camera, and the overall concept and atmosphere that Shadow the Hedgehog is not one of them. The general Sonic fan may or may not embrace Shadow, but I can tell you the general gaming public over 15 years of age would most likely scoff this and would rather turn their attention to the much more polished Ratchet and Clank or Jak series. Heck, this game is the butt of jokes this year for many general gaming message boards.
As for me, reading various impressions of this game from Sonic fans and non-fans alike comfirms my hunch that this game would be mediocre as Sonic Heroes and that now it seems like a bad 'fandom wank' kind of game. I don't want to play a Sonic game that only some Sonic/Shadow fanatics will praise claiming that "it is at least better than Heroes" or "not as bad as I thought it would be". I want to play a Sonic game that nearly every gamer will praise because it is a good game. Seriously, why should I spend $50 on Shadow the Hedgehog when I could put it towards Dragon Quest VIII or Psychonauts and get a higher quality of product?
As far as I'm concerned the only Shadow game that is worthwhile in 2005 is this one:
GOTY Contender up there. ^_^
*places down her two pence* i've often fallen into one of the many bottomless pits when home-attacking something. it's taught me to rely on guns more often.
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I don't agree with you on the graphics bit - they are sub par.
They are in some parts. Some cutscenes, and the opening trailer, look beautiful, but others look Adventure-esque. It seems that each character has models in both styles.
Also, the Shadow Androids (the ones in Story mode, NOT multiplayer) look AWFUL. I guess that's how you tell them apart from the 'original'. 😛
I'm feeling argumentative right now, so I'm gonna keep fighting my corner. =P
Anyway, as Swift already pointed out, Jak doesn't use CGI cutscenes - in fact, I used it as an example of a game that doesn't back in my last post. Just a little nitpick, not actually important to my argument. But anyway, yeah, I loved the graphics of the 16 bit games. Why? Because they were vibrant, colourful, varied, and generally showed off what the console could handle. Even then, though, graphics should adapt with technology advancements - if the console can handle better than what it's getting, then why shouldn't it?
As for the balance, no, I wouldn't expect Ivo to be speedy and have tight controls. Mainly because he isn't a speedy character. Shadow, meanwhile, is. And it can be pretty hard to line him up right at times because of how skiddy he is. He wasn't at all like that in SA2, so why here?
I'ma skip popularity since I have little in the way of rebuttals right now. Not that I don't back down from my view, tho.
With the longetivity and replay value of the game, 3-hours per run through actually isn't that long - especially when you consider that this can be dropped to about one hour once you've got into the flow of things. I'll admit that it'll take a while to unlock everything, but don't most games? And besides, it'd take a will of stone to keep at it.
As for ten longer games; Metal Gear Solid series tend to last longer, especially if you go for everything - dog tags, special ranks, bonus items, special modes...Grand Theft Auto series are always long games (yes, I realise that technically they go on forever, seeing as it's free roam - I'm referring to the cumulative mission time), Metroid Prime's time consuming and the Legend of Zelda series tend to be long (okay, Wind Waker was rather short, but I still recall taking longer to beat it than Shadow). I think that, overall, comes to more than 10 games?
I'm not necessarily saying that Shadow's range of unlockables isn't as good as those in previous Sonic games - although I will admit I'm personally drawn to the 3D Green Hill moreso than Metal or a Hard Mode for a game I find irritating enough as is (applies to either Shadow or Heroes). However, there are other games with a huge amount of unlockables - the Jak series, excluding the first one, had bonuses you could unlock by collecting Precursor Orbs, both Soul Calibur and Timesplitter give loads of bonus games which reward you to a huge degree (80-120 unlockables? yesplz)...generally, I just don't find it to be a fitting reward.
As for your final question, I'll hold myself exempt from answering - I've never felt comfortable with using a numbering system. Although for what it's worth, I though Shadow as average at best.
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Anyway, as Psx already pointed out, Jak doesn't use CGI cutscenes
I did what now?
...Ah yes, that was Swift. My bad. =P So easy to get mixed up when making a long post. *change*
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Entertainment: Seriously, I don't know if the Sonic series can ever recover from this debacle.
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This the only thing I don't agree with GI review. Yes, the series will recover, just like Resident Evil and Mortal Kombat did, with Sonic Riders and Sonic The Hedgehog '06.
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This the only thing I don't agree with GI review. Yes, the series will recover, just like Resident Evil and Mortal Kombat did, with Sonic Riders and Sonic The Hedgehog '06.
Well it is too early to tell if those Sonic games will actually be good or not but so far they don't seem to outright offend my taste and intelligence concept-wise like Shadow. So that's a good thing.
It amazes how some people defend this game like its gods gift to gaming. People love to point out how great the cut scenes are or the "massive" replay value(which really isnt) but these things are nothing compared to the over all game which is mostly nothing. Graphics and voice acting usualy take a back seat when I look for a good game. Don't get me wrong I love them, but im fine when they are just ok. But when there is TERRIBLE level design and SLOPPY controlles, that can ruin the entire experience. Just becuase the character has rocket shoes doesn't mean he should slide around like a buttered snake on ice. Don't give me any of that "how do you think you would run if you had rocket schoes?!" That has to be the worst excuse for the games crappy control ever. Like someone said Shadow didn't do that in SA2 why here?
The running stages in Sonic adventure 2 were very fun becuase you had an ok amount of control over the chracter when you were blasting through a stage. Doing tricks and killing enemies with out stoping along the way made it not only cool to look at but really felt rewarding.
There are so many things things in Shadow that just don't feel rewarding. Destructable environments are nothing new and are actualy done pretty badly in this game.
You know what? I think everyone has already stated why they like or hate the game and I have to. So there is something else I want to get into.There are some people who seem to get really offended like it was there own work thats being attacked. I use to be like that, especialy in Junior high when people use to come up to me and say things like "you know Goku can kick Mewtwo's butt" or "Nintendo is for kids and you gotta get PlayStation for the cool games." I don't know why exactly it use to heat me up so, but now I have grown above and beyond that kind mind set. Alot of people here play a large veriety of games it seems and know what makes a good game. And then there are people who think Sonic is still the pinnacle of gaming and refuse to think otherwise. I guess its mostly out of some huge devotion to the series. I just want to know why? If folks could just accept that some games just don't meet standards sometimes or turn out to be nothing but crap then I bet alot of stress related problems on boards could be avoided. Maybe none of this makes sense, not sure if im getting my point across.
It's just I remember when I couldn't stand for anyone to bad mouth any game SERIES I loved, even if the latest version turned out to be pretty bad. I would defend it to no end, and just stress my self out trying to win in petty little arguments. It makes no sense, and I can just see my old self constantly on these message boards and just wonder do they feel anything like I did. And I guess I will stop there, im not even gonna over look what I typed.
Here you go Catakiller < hands over a 
>
Well put...I actually still get heated up over people who say "Nintendo is for kids"...but it's because of their ignorace then about the fact that they're attacking my favorite brand. This year, I discovered somethings about other systems that I didn't know before, namely that Halo kicks major ...!
I think it's important to be able to look at your favorite games and note that there are flaws in them...NO GAME IS PERFECT.
And if, by some chance, a game was made that WAS what people would call "perfect"(and I'm not saying this game is), some people will always find something about it to nitpick.
Did the game say what happened to Metal Sonic? Did Omega tear him in half, or something? Or is it something just unresolved?
Something unresolved. There was no mention of him whatsoever.
While on the subject of past game references, does Knuckles or anyone EVER mention the Master Emerald? Or is Angel Island ever referred to? Just a "yes" or "no". No spoilers please.
No. In fact, Angel Island hasn't been referenced in a 3D game since Adventure, making Knux all the more OOC.
Unless that cavern stage you get for completing the Neutral path in Westopolis was Angel Island... but I doubt it.
Or that one passing reference in Heroes about Mushroom Hill... which still left him OOC but at least it was a nice touch.
The highlights of this game for me were the final military siege of GUN Fortress and the capital ship skrimishes of Sky Troops.
GUN Fortress strikes the best balance between traditional Sonic speed and the new gunplay. With a gatling gun or lock-on cannon in tow, you can literally tear through the underground grottos and computer mainframes without stopping. You're moving at brake-neck speed while blowing apart every car, soldier, and GUN mech in your path, and there's something extremely satisfying about demolishing the heavy robots and walkers. Heck, there's so many mechs to chew up and charge your dark meter, you can move under a non-stop evil Shadow!
Sky Troops has its fast moments as well, but it's real drawing points are the epic atmosphere and compelling mission options. It's the ultimate conflict between the evils of the Sonic universe, and you're caught in between: anhilate Robotnik's armada, or sabotauge Black Doom's ancient fleet? Both options are entertaining and straight forward (hard to miss the crystals and battleships, unlike some other levels).
The level is busy with activity, gets an excellent introductory cutscene and the music - epic guitar chords and tribal drums pounding the background - is hands down memorable (and hummable) against the rest of the generic "deathmetal" soundtrack.
Well, I got Shadow(GC) for Christmas and starting at about 10 Monday night I've gotten to Death Ruins by going completely hero and I plan on finishing up the pure Hero ending completely. I must say that I am quite enjoying myself playing this(as I predicted I would), and I might even go so far as to say that I love it. So far, there is not as many frustrating parts as there was in Heroes(which I enjoyed too) and it is definately more fun to play than Heroes.
As far as graphics, I don't know what y'all talking about it having SA graphics. I think the graphics are great maybe not as good as SA2 or Heroes, but they are good and I quite enjoy them. As many stated the cutscenes are pretty magnificent!
Voices did not bother me, but then again, I was never really bothered by the change in the first place. Sonic sounded almost the same although there were time when you could definately hear Jason's voice come through. Shadow I could not even tell the difference and I thinks he sounds good, er make that great; Tails I also like but don't think it's exactly an improvement. Eggman I also like, of course it ain't like we had a choice in his change, and finally, for Rouge, I actually like her voice pretty good definately a better change in the game then how her actress sounds in the cartoon-as a matter of fact, sometimes it sounds real attractive.
Other points of comment are that I'm not really having much trouble of controling Shadow(alot better control than in Heroes I must say) and I'm also having no trouble using the homing attack or jump dash. When I play more of the game I'll give more impressions on it, but if it keeps on going the way it is, I'm gonna have to label this a great game!
Well I got Shadow on Xmas. Got the 4 Good Endings and 2 Nuetral Endings. I'm worried, I like it. Not really, really like it. Its like a quilty pleasure.
As for voices, the only ones I dont prefer is Sonic (Bored), Rouge (Sounds too old really), Knuckles (I HAVE TO SHOUT), Vector (Sounds like Yoda) and Charmy (Mobster Moll Circa 1950s). Havent heard Amy, Cream yet though.
Some of the music in the later levels is good as well (Lost Impact, Final Haunt, Cosmic Fall (EVIL LEVEL)).
I think the graphics - especially the in-game character modes - hit their peak with SA2, where we had fur texture and realistic shading. Heroes and Shadow are all about rubber and gloss.
Just compare Shadow's SA2 model
blazefire.mooglecavern.co...wposed.jpg
blazefire.mooglecavern.co...ow_gun.gif
www.computerandvideogames..._13831.jpg
against his later incarnations,
image.com.com/gamespot/im...een015.jpg
www.kotaku.com/gaming/ima...-thumb.jpg
cubemedia.gamespy.com/cub...942191.jpg
and you'll see how the detail has downshifted.
Got it for Christmas and just finished the Last Story...It's a very good game actually. The only thing that bothered me at times were the controls. They can be become very sluggish sometimes, especially when it came to the homing jump. The voices were fine. The only voice that really annoyed annoyed me was Knuckles. He just doesn't sound like...Knuckles. The story was fairly impressive especially as it begins to wrap up toward the end. So IMO, It's a big improvement over Heroes, but not quite up to the standard SA2 had set. Now onto Sonic Rush!
Its solid though sometimes the constant attacks from the enemies regardless of alignment is annoying. Also the fact that the enemies shoot you down during a homing attack angers me to no end. also shadow handles like a cardboard box on ice.
I'll repeat it...
For Cosmic Fall, the trick is:
1) Be patient, if you cant see where to go, sit and wait, it'll appear.
2) NEVER touch the camera, just let IT do what IT wants to do... If you start screwing with it, then it'll screw you back. It WILL move to the right place eventually, if it's not there yet then you can't go yet...
3) Time isn't THAT much of an obstacle, getting good grades does NOT meen rushing...
Ironic you would say that Tylec, noting that Shadow's SA2 model was an updated version of Super Sonic from SA1 (hence why Super looks so noticably different between SA1/2), so using Shadow as the basis kind of makes me laugh a bit.
I do agree, though. The slick models are fairly ridiculous, I didn't mind them so much in SADX which was a sexy little game, especially for Chaos.
Comparing the pictures, you can also see how Shadow's ears and mouth area are now a shadow (argh) of their former selves in color (Rouge's model also used this color). I miss that nice tanned looking color.
I want to get this game when the prices go down. My sister for christmas was even going to buy it for me (in its $50ness) but when she was going to check it out the store clerk guy forbid her from buying it because he said it was a bad game and that people were returning Shadow and asking for their money back or something like that. I still want to get it when it drops to $20 at the very least. Thats what I did when I bought Sonic Heroes...which I overally like since I haven't gotten to play Sonic Adventure 1 or 2 yet at all.
Wow those people must've really thought Shadow sucked. Heh, I kept my copy. Although at my first sit through i'll admit I had second thoughts. >_>
I can definetly see the direct use of Super Sonic now that you mention it, Craig. I chose Shadow because I thought he suffered greatest between SA2 and Heroes, going from a black with blue/gray shading to bland black. Designing him as one solid, dark colour really dullsthe model, and leaves its points of attachment obvious.
Well, I finally got around to renting this game. And while it isn't terrible, it isn't really all that good either.
I beat the straight Neutral story and then did the good mission at the end... I assume I have to do the entire thing again and do the evil mission at the end, as well, if I want to unlock all endings.
It's a fairly good concept that wasn't executed terribly well. And I completed one ending in less than an hour and a half, almost unheard of with me. So, it's a tad easy, except that I keep completing the wrong missions by accident.
Well, the neutral ending is the fastest ending since all you have to do is run to the end. And you can do it differently, by taking dark and hero missions as well, and see more of the game.
Anyway, I played the game for the first time myself. Some neutral, some hero, didn't get to the Heroic Hero end because I ran out of time...
But anyway, I think the game rocks. Not just the graphics, or the music, or the fact that it's Shadow, but the sheer amount of people you can beat the crap out of, the amount there is to do in the game, the improved camera, the lessened death falls, the fact that I can play 2 player as Maria and slap GUN around a bit...
Oh, I'm not saying the game is perfect. As usual in 3D Sonic games, I had occasional problems steering Shadow, Sonic had a tendency to sound like he was coming onto Shadow, I'd have appreciated more than one Black Arms guide, and sometimes completing missions got a little frustrating to find all the 30+ enemies, and Chaos Control was at its most useful in Neutral missions...
But I never threw the controller aside. I wanted to play on.
I'd say ratings...
SA2 = 8/10
SH = 4/10
ShtH = 7 1/2/10
Complex fractions?
This grealy offends me }:0
I beat the ultimate final boss of death. LACK OF FINAL MOVIE UNLOCKED OFFENDS ME. Can you unlock the whole Eggman remix song? Overall the game is better than Heroes. I do love "The Ark" level.
Yeah, I'm annoyed that I have to replay the whole last story to fight the last boss or see the ending movie again, too...
I believe the Eggman Remix is Event #2 or #3 in the sound test.
third'd.
althought i'm lazy and watched my beloved finish his game to see the ending. 
but it left me thinking,'is that it? nice graphics in the video, but surely there could've been more to the ending?'
Ending number 6 down. 4 more until the finale. I'm getting into the game a bit more now. Yay >_>
EDIT: Cosmic Fall = True Love. This level alone makes the game worth getting. One of my favorite Sonic[Shadow] game levels ever. Sheer bliss. *goes back to fighting Black Doom*
I've played more of Shadow, and I am proud to say this is the true successor to Sonic Adventure 2 way more so than Heroes will ever be!!!!! As of now I got six endings finished-Dark, Hero, Normal(with both the Hero and Dark endings), Dark-Neutral, and Hero-Neutral- I'm not sure what I'll do next! Unlike, HS2K3, I pretty much hate Cosmic Fall
; I died quite a bit before I got the hang of it and still don't like it much. I finally heard Vector's voice, and I must say I think it fits pretty well, IMO; admittly, it sounds better in the cutscenes than it does when Vec is giving you advice in-game or saying "Find the computer room." To me, Hero-Neutral is pretty sad.
OT:
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I'm getting into the game a bit more now. Yay >_>
Yay!!!^_^
http://computerroom.ytmnd.com/
http://comproom.ytmnd.com/
Bwahahaha.
And better: http://soniccomputerroom.ytmnd.com/ . Well, the pic sure could use some cel shading...
Ever noticed that the new E10 rating is going to be the next Mighty Kids Meal?
Knux, Amy, Sonic, and Tails all screaming "Shadow!" is shockingly scary. I love this game now though. Very, very good.
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Ever noticed that the new E10 rating is going to be the next Mighty Kids Meal?
That'll be the next generation of high cholesterol and obesity.
Deleted.
Baleeted? 'kay.
Y'know there's spoiler tags, right?
I can't get them to work. >_< It's been so long since i've used them.
HS2k3: I think it's just < spoiler >< /spoiler>, though it might be < spoilers >< /spoilers>. Or, alternatively, you could do it the long way: <span style="color:black;background-color:black"><font color=white>Spoilers (Select To Read):</font> blah blah blah</span>.
Anyway, back to pretending to be on topic. I've got six endings so far, and have been to all 22 levels at least once. Is anyone else entirely too fond of the BGM in the level just before the Pure Dark ending? FUN Gresstor? (It's an anagram.) It's just so... different.
EDIT: Because the board automatically converted the HTML tags. Oops.
Alright let's try this again. Finally beat the game and here are my impressions.
Spoilers (Select To Read): Super Shadow actually has some amazing attacks this time around. Most super character battles are prety lame, but this time, ST must've read my mind. I had wondered what happened to Chaos Spear since SA2 and now they have it...super charged. Yay. Not to mention Super Chaos Blast and the classic Chaos Control. And Devil Doom is actually a great final boss. Not lame like Metal Sonic. ^_^ He's got fire, lasers, random projectiles, his wings, CC, etc. The dude is bad@$$. Haven't beaten him yet, but man do I love this boss fight. I wish you could control your elevation, though and I wish at one point atleast you were in a city or some ground setting[like the black bull fight] because you could better see how fast you were moving. No relative objects in the upper atmosphere. So at first I didn't like it at all, but now it's moving it's way through the ranks. Still kinda weird how the Black Comet wasn't even mentioned in SA2 and how Rouge couldn't find that other Prof. Gerald video in SA2, but hey it worked out in the end. Loved The Chaotix in the ending, great role. So is Shadow like forever stationed on the Ark or what? And that yellow glow made Super Shadow look too much like Super Sonic. Still awesome ending I loved it.
Spoilers (Select To Read): I liked that they had him use Chaos Spear again. However, I don't see anything to indicate that he was planning to stay on the ARK, especially since everything points to him trying to leave his past - if you remember from SA2, that room only has one door, and that's the one he left through. Besides, he obviously leaves at some point to pick up a hover board and some shades. =P
Hover board and shades indeed. XD
Spoilers (Select To Read): Well, a few Endings had Shadow talk of the ARK as Sacred ground adn no one would tresspass on the ARK and seemed to lead to ARK Angel thing but the final ending says that he has put his past behind him (convienent that) and he will go on his life. Until I run him over. Also lack of Eggman lackey ending makes me sad. Also Super Shadow does look cool and the Devil Doom boss is actually quite fun.
